1070 GTX Micron Memory Global Issues - GPU firmware update needed

Hi Everyone,

It seems that our A15R3 and A17R4 with 1070GTX and Micron memory are also hit with the well known vram bug (see here: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ma...for-geforce-gtx-1070-due-to-memory-issue.html).

Reports that I am reading from various forums clearly show that micron chips will not go above +200-300MHz on A15R3 and A17R4 and sometimes even show artifacts or crash at stock clocks, while Samsung chips are usually in the +700 range. Now the good news is that this was solved with a GPU firmware on the desktop cards, because the problem is not the quality of the memory but the way the GPU bios is managing the Micron vram and the voltage.

Is there any chance that we can get a GPU firmware to fix this please Alienware, as it is quite a serious issue?

 

Thanks for the update. Going to check my amp's GTX 1070 when i get home

 

Yea, hopefully Alienware will issue a firmware update to correct the issue.

 

So, HWinfo reports that I have Samsung RAM on my 1070. Does that mean I'm good?

 

Yep, you're safe!

 

True, but I am not really sure they are aware that the problem also affects laptop cards...

 

how do i see what tyoe of memory do i haave on my gtx 1070? where and which program?

@edit: i opened HWInfo64, and in GPU modules, when i selected nvidia (because it was intel hd graphics), on MEMORY MODULES it says mine is: Micron Tech 8ATF1G64HZ-2G6B1

So i guess mine is one with problems right? Is there a hotfix for it? Or do i have to trade/change notebook? Sorry, im newbie at those subjects....

Also, i dindt installed the last BIOS version in dell drivers site (BIOS 1.0.9 from january 09, 2017). Should i install it?
Thanks

 

Yea the Micron one is problematic (usually if you overclock but it can also happen at stock speeds if your card is really bad). You can install bios 1.0.9 but it will not fix the problem because it's gpu related. You need a new bios/firmware for the GPU to fix the memory problems, so we need to wait for AW/Dell to create one. All the major brands have provided a fix (Asus, EVGA, Gainward, MSI, Gigabyte, Palit, etc.) except Dell!

I don't know why they are not reacting, maybe they are waiting until more people complaint and want to return/trade their laptop?

 

But did Asus and MSI fixes for example even cover their laptops or just desktop cards?

 

so, for now, i have to wait right?

Question: is this related to stuttering im experiencing? throttling? Or this is because heating problem and repaste fix it? Should i repaste my aw15r3?

 

Are you overheating? Replacing the paste and pads improves cooling, if your issues are not heat related it will not help you.

 

Good question, I saw that the big brands started using mainly Samsung memory as soon as the Micron issue went public 2-3 months ago on their gpus, except for those which were already manufactured. It's hard to evaluate which manufacturers are using micron memory in their premium laptops today. It's also possible that these brands are shipping their laptops with the fix already implemented since the end of October.

 

Re-pasting always helps if your laptop is too hot There is nothing to do about power throttling on the GPU, but that should not trigger any stuttering though.

 

okay i guess im gonna repaste. them. Do you know what exactly things should i buy, and where? because i have to import to Brazil i guess.

Also the stuttering and dont know if its because a GPU issue....i only mentioned, because sometimes im getting some stutering/throttling when doing multiple tasks, such as open a youtube video and a website together, or 2 yt videos.... but only sometimes..... and i dont know why im getting this in such a strong notebook.

 

There is a guide here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...5r3-disassembly-repaste-guide-results.797373/

You should call dell and ask them to repaste it if it's too hot and still under warranty. They should also take a look at your stuttering issue tbh.

 

it is still under warranty, and i guess i read somewhere that liquid paste cannot be used, otherwise warranty cancels (correct me if im wrong). Also, here in BR i contacted dell and they said that temperature is normal, is normal till 100 degrees....so i was wondering what should i buy, since i talked to my father and he would do the repaste (he's an eletric engineer)

 

You can use Kryonaut instead if you don't want to use liquid metal. I'm not 100% sure that liquid metal voids warranty though, so you might want to ask in the liquid metal topic about that

Just call dell on the phone and tell them that the laptop has cooling issues and that it requires repasting with Kryonaut (that you will provide to them) instead of contacting them on this forums tbh

 

guess ill do that.

Hoping the problem with micron solves as well

 

It definitely doesn't void the warranty using liquid metal. Someone posted on NBR evidence of this through a chat with a Dell technician (I think via Twitter) the other day which I read and they confirmed it won't invalidate the warranty. Just don't break anything when you do it!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

thanks mate

 

Conflicting information from tech support (Dell) isn't unusual, so I would verify with Dell technical support - get it in writing - before using Liquid Metal on your laptop.

Better to delay a day or two to get an answer than invalidate your warranty.

 

It does not void warranty as long as you don't break anything.

 

thz

 

I wonder if this would apply to all models (including 13 and 15)

 

That's the one

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If you read what the AW rep says in this exchange, they says AW haven't used "that type of thermal" so AW have no information to offer.

Then that AW rep says that you are not voiding the warranty, even though they have no experience with what you are asking about - the AW person answering has no idea what Liquid Metal actually is - except it's a type of thermal (paste).

I am assuming the AW rep's answer here is based on falling back to "re-pasting" doesn't void the warranty.

Note that Liquid Metal's toxicity is rumored to keep Dell from servicing the laptop. That is what other reports from Dell say, that Dell refuses to service laptops that have Liquid Metal applied due to it's toxicity.

Again, ask Dell before using it to make sure you aren't voiding your warranty, and to make sure you aren't going to expose a Dell worker to toxic Liquid Metal.

What will happen if Liquid Metal is discovered while Dell is working on it during an RMA, by a technician that recognizes LM and then refuses to continue working on it?

You might get back a box of disassembled parts instead of a working laptop.

 

Or you just repaste it before sending it in for service....

 

Sure, give that a shot, that'll fool'em...

The point is if Liquid Metal is found during RMA it might stop service on the laptop, why take that chance?

Be upfront about it all from the beginning, ask AW before using Liquid Metal, get the "ok" in writing before using it.

 

Can someone post a GPU-Z screenshot of theirs with the Samsung chips? I want to see if there is a difference in the capability from the Micron one (which I have unfortunately, so I am looking forward to a new VBIOS update).

 

If unsure, remove liquid metal before service; yes it will "fool" them. Not really anything to fool, as it is perfectly fine for the techs to work on something with normal paste on it. The aren't going to examine for traces of liquid metal left over, and they most likely won't care at all.

 

The point is why go through all of this tomfoolery just to get around getting a straight answer from AW before applying LM in the first place.

If you get a definitive answer that Dell won't service your laptop after LM has been used, then don't do it in the first place.

If AW believes it's too toxic for their employee's to use or be around in the course of working on your laptop, why do you think it's ok for you to be exposed?

It's only a few degree's difference from using the best non-toxic pastes, and those you don't need to wait to get approval from AW to use for re-pasting.

 

Oh, I see. You wan't AW to actually tell us in a definitive way. Dell has to have 2 years of meetings before they can make a decision. Most likely will be handled on a case to case basis for a few years. With everything depending on the mood/knowledge of the case manager.

As for it being toxic; it is just as toxic as any other thermal paste, as in, don't swallow it, and wear gloves. It is only a rumor that it has Mercury. Actually uses Gallium.

 

Also worth observing that it doesn't ever need to be reapplied. The best non-conductive (but still toxic) pastes recommend a repaste at least every 8 months.

I hope AW don't loose their nerve and blanket ban it because it is riskier to the system to apply

 

Here's a recent post, advice on using LM from a vendor that deals with applying LM, good hints, start reading at "on another topic":

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.797128/page-209#post-10427277

My response:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.797128/page-209#post-10427287

His response:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.797128/page-209#post-10427292

And, recent followups:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.797128/page-223#post-10430132

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...cussions-lounge.797128/page-224#post-10430302

An earlier post, with references to other user reports:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...te-guide-results.797373/page-44#post-10394893

 

This isn't true, just like any other paste if flexure causes the mating / bond to open enough to let in air the LM will react with air and oxidize.

LM also hardens and if flexure cracks the bond it will also interrupt the thermal contact and cause temps to go up.

There are youtube video's and reports from users about re-pasting LM on a regular basis, when temps go up, just like other pastes.

Might you get away with no re-pastes over time on a laptop with any paste? Possible, but unlikely, most will need to re-paste when temps start to rise.

 

You might ask in the main thread for AW support for your model, there are lots of GPU-Z images posted for this issue searchable via google too, I found many.

 

That's the whole point to my suggesting everyone that wants to re-paste with LM make it a point to ask AW directly, getting the answer in writing filed for their laptop service tag support, so you can point to it if there are problems in the future.

 

Kinda thought this would be the thread to ask on as it is the original theme of the thread. It's only just derailed off topic into a conversation about LM.

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Although that is a consideration in my reply - the LM OT talk - these side discussions often don't get the attention that such a question would get in the main thread.

NBR is different than other boards in that most of the attention and talk happen in an owners or OC thread.

Side threads get found eventually, but not always as fast as you would like

Here is one about the same problem, on desktop GPU's:

Firmware updates for GTX 1070 due to memory Issue
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/firmware-updates-for-gtx-1070-due-to-memory-issue.797323/

 

This applies to all model.

Cleaning liquid metal is not that hard.

 

Why use LM in the first place if you are going to need to clean it off when sending in your laptop for RMA to AW?

If your attempt to lower the temps overall, and specifically the core differential isn't successful - many have that experience - requiring an RMA to AW or a complete replacement from AW.

Using a non-LM paste would make more sense from the start.

 

The problem is the heatsink is already stressed to its maximum theoretical thermal capacity, regular paste would mean very little in the attempt of reducing temps even if the contact is perfect.

LM helps when the heatsink is already near it's theoretical thermal capacity by allowing heat to transfer faster.


So in the case of your GT80, that doesn't really matter because the heatsink is already very large and therefore has lots of thermal headroom before LM would be considered a significant / major improvement.

 

By all accounts, the AW heatsink / cooling is more than enough, and once "normal" paste is applied to the heatsink with the "too thick" paste / thermal tape changed, the temperatures are good.

LM may get better temps, but if AW won't service it, that adds another step to re-paste before RMA - maybe even shipping back/forth again to LHZ for the cleanup process and again when the laptop is back from AW from RMA to put on LM again - so it's best to use "non-LM" paste all around the first time.

It sucks, but there it is.

I'd find the best "non-LM" paste to use now, rather than stealthy continuing to use LM.

 

To get back to the original topic, I called the French Dell support, and they told me that some people already complained about the 1070 GTX with Micron memory chips crashing even at stock clocks... however they had no clue whether a global fix with a new GPU firmware was under development This doesn't look good because unless people start actively complaining and returning laptops, they will probably not do anything about it since I don't remember AW ever releasing a laptop gpu bios update.

 

You can find screenshots in google search for the samsung memory The difference in the capability is huge: micron memory will be stable typically up to +200-300MHz (some chips are unstable even at stock clocks, but in most of them you start noticing crashes from +200-300 during gaming), while samsung chips are typically stable up to +700Mhz (sometimes +800 is achievable too). However, with a gpu firmware update, micron becomes usually about as good as samsung.

 

Make sure that the +800 actually nets positive improvement when overclocked. Most of the time if you go too high the performance will be less due to GDDR5 ECC kicking in.

 

That's correct. I have two 1070 GTX at home with Samsung memory actually so I was able to test them The net positive improvements were there up to +700 (9400MHz), then the ECC kicked in so at 9500MHz the peformance was equal and at 9600Mhz it was worse (it crashed when going higher than 9600). The worrying part is that there are several reports of micron memory cards crashing even at stock speeds if you look around, regardless of the overclocking.

 

Any confirmed report of the micron memory alienware 1070 crashing at stock speed?


Ironally gddr5x is all from micron, but has no issues.

 

People usually don't write in which desktop or laptop the card is located in their posts

However I made another interesting discovery, while being in 3D mode, my micron card is stable even at +600 if I overclock it dynamically while the game is running; on the other hand it crashes above +300 if I overclock the memory before the benchmark. The bug is therefore related to voltage timing, with the memory not getting juice quickly enough and crashing. The quality of the memory is not relevent.

GDDR5x in 1080s is not affected by the issue.

 

If that is truly the case then the fix (before bios update) can be applied using NVCP + nvidia inspector MDPS

Setting the NVCP to maximum performance and prefer highest framerate will force the card to stay in 3D Mode 24/7, then you use MDPS to force a powersaving mode (P8) when you're only using the computer for non gaming purposes.

Before launching a game you can disable MDPS feature and card will revert back to 3D Mode 24/7 (P0).