NEW!! Alienware Area-51M LAPTOP!! (to replace alienware 15 and 17)

Hmm so what can we get from a 150W 2080 plus 9900K set-up? maybe double the performance?

@1:26

 

Now that I saw and read this thread, I'm torn between P775TM and Area51M.

Damn you guys LOL

 

I'd wait until both systems are released and reviewed to make a decision.

 

I'll say the AW is a better system overall. But it's more expensive, and that GPU upgrade is going to be tough.

 

This not bothering anyone? 4:24

 

If that's true, Thermals are piss poor or it is a firmware bug.
Isn't that AW_Umar Khan and not not Joe Olmsted?
If its thermals then 100% most likely the consumers will get the same thing called Pre-Development PC

 

This is Umar Khan... Show the overclocking features with Dell’s new OC tool.

Dell said they will tune the fan profiles in Area-51M for lowest possible noise.

 

Yep agreed!
Even possibly a machine that's had it's Heat Sink removed multiple times and put back without new TIM from all the reviewers... is what I would say if I held Dell to a higher regard

 

Thanks atleast this time I got the faces and names correctly! Usually I mis-match names and faces irking everyone I meet. Close friends know my problem!

 

My guess is opinions are going to vary, but to me that is 'music' to my data-center loving ears! The sound of heat being properly exhausted is soothing.

 

Long time Alienware / dell customer here, and much like Mr. Fox I am severely skeptical about this new release and really have zero fomo here. I can basically guarantee you that you will be paying a huge premium to be a beta tester for Dell.
There's a reason why I only buy outlet machines now, and when the product has matured through a few iterations. (I got my current machine for 2175$ off the outlet - something coming close is priced at 3100$ for 51M with 1 year support)
Prices go down and stability goes up a few iterations after a new form factor release. This is a guarantee
Dell always has shown they will ship systems with small bugs or poor QA and count on paying customers to raise them to them and only when MULTIPLE customers raise those and start taking to social media.

I have gotten so burned so many times listening to the hype from Dell / Alienware and paying full price for a new machine form factor, only to find that in practice there's an experience destroying bug or limitation I need to accept, or wait for a fix, or whatever.

With this particular new form factor you're being asked to pay a hefty premium and take the following on faith from dell;
1. CPU Form factor won't change next year with intel desktop chips, requiring a full motherboard swap to actually take advantage of that (dell will be the only ones selling you that mobo)
2. GPU, still not a full desktop GPU, may or may not be upgradeable later;
3. Screen lottery is back on, and while only 1080p now, a 1440p or uh screen or whatever nicer screen is almost guaranteed to be around the corner;
4. Chassis weight savings in the laptop are basically nullified by having to carry multiple adapters. I can guarantee you the next iteration of this thing will have one hefty adapter, and first gen users will be the only poor people carrying around two adapters.

From a practical perspective we're being asked to take a risk that actually, this modular thing may need an overhaul later. practically speaking that is zero benefit vs a BGA machine where the motherboard, cpu, and video card are all tied to the same fate. You have the risk here that the same thing happens, how angry would customers be if actually, you need Gen 2 Area 51m to use the new desktop CPUs, and actually, we aren't able to add the 3080 into the dell form factor because it requires XY power draw or cooling or new heat sinks or whatever. The % chance that this can go wrong in my view is way higher than % chance dell will deliver on all their aspirations ( note: they even don't guarantee you can upgrade past this gen GPUs.)

My advice to any of you is to keep your money and wait for the real life reviews of this thing, actually save your money and wait until the 2nd iteration comes out. No way i'm paying to be a beta tester. From the $ I saved I can buy a full desktop 2080 for the AGA and resell it later for minimal loss vs investing in this unknown longevity form factor with no resell market for the dell proprietary parts. My two cents, please just take it as a friendly concern.

 

Amen to this! Very well said!

Long time Dell/AW users will know that Dell has never/ever released a fully functional desktop replacements. It's because of forums like these that the system runs to its acceptable capacity and without people like Mr Fox and Papusan and countless others, their systems would still throttle like a cheap old car.
I am very much hyped by this system and will buy it when there are more screen options available but there's is no way in hell I'm shelling out 4k for this probable lemon!

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

I'm hopeful but I know for sure, i'm not touching this until a full 2-3 year cycle is done, and dell proves that this upgrade approach will work and give options down the line. I'll let them fix the first few rounds of fixes coming from " in the field " repairs and customer feedback, that's all. Just watch out, the margins are HUGE on this thing and I just don't see the value yet.

 

Lol by then there will be a new version. Who knows what issues it will have..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

No matter what the vendors put out, it will never satisfy your needs or requirements. Remember it’s a portable gaming computer, not a desktop ...

No matter how hard they go through R&D to provide what enthusiast wants in a laptop , you guys will not get satisfied. What’s the point of complaining year after year?

Its like you are working at a job, and you are doing your best and gave all you got , but your manager is never satisfied.

Stop complaining and just move on. It’s not your cup of tea.

 

From the service manual for the Area 51m. You will find pict of an unknown heatsink with one less shared pipes.


vs.

8 pipes 7 pipes heatsink


Edit.
If you look closer in the manual you can also see that Dell also with this model skipped use of heatspreader on PCH chips. And many of the previous Aw models had high PCH temp around 90C. Probably no place they could add a mounting mecanism for it on the MB.


Clevo use heatspreader/heatsink for PCH on their laptops with socket cpu. And I have never seen awful temps from it.

 

I think this is the case for some users indeed. and i respect that. different users have different needs. I do value the complaints about poor QC. But if the laptop just isnt your cup of tea, let it be. But this is the issue, a lot of issues do come forth because of the bad QC.

 

Good catch! - I wonder if they are using different heatsyncs for different configs i7 vs i9 . . . . I saw someone mention this in the past but it was hard to believe, but this comparison shines more light on it . . . it going to be such a shame for the people that bought lower end models with the hopes of upgrading cpu later . . . . that means they'll have to buy a replacement heatsync too . . .

 

The config is different, but the # of heat pipes is the same at 7. It looks like it is controlled by GPU choice maybe? The CPU heat pipes are the same in both

 

I can't see how a tiny heat spreader on the PCH is gonna hold down a 9900k + 2080 overclocked... but time will tell i guess

 

it doesnt have anything to do with 9900K or 2080. its only for PCH.. platform controller hub.. so ur other components run at proper bus speed.. Thermal throttle point for PCH differs from laptop to laptop. its better to have some surface area to dissipate heat..

 

Ahh right i was under the impression the PCH gets much hotter when overclocked, example being the 17 R2 / 15 R2 (Like your system ) i have added a heatsink to the PCH on mine?

 

yeah but the higher the CPU bandwidth the hotter the PCH gets. My 7700HQ only stresses the PCH to a 65C. While the 7820HK for example in the same laptop chassis make sit hit over 80C.

 

Since someone brought up the PCH, I had to check it out. Checked teardowns and I couldn't find it. I think I'm going blind.

 

the more stress it gets on express lanes, the more temps you will find on PCH.. NVMe drives use the chipset PCI-E lanes

 

that too, but with 2 NVME drives in my unit the temps are still lower than the HK variants. CPU throughput is a huge factor.

 

They haven't shown a render or photo with 8 pipes yet, despite the highest end config being disassembled at CES. Like I said, the config of the pipes is different, but number the same (befitting the GPU with 2 shared heat pipes in the live photos)

I very much believe some foolish tech at Dell counted the heat pipes while it was upside-down

 

Or they counted 4 pipes on each cold plate (Cpu+Gpu)

 

Ideally, there should be only one heat-sink type, for any configuration, the one with max. number of pipes.

Why bother with 2+ types of heatsink...making things too complicated and expensive.

 

This indeed, also for upgrading, want the better gpu? Buy an extra heatsink as well.....

 

To add, I think the complainers should realize that regardless of whether the Area 51M can do Mach 1000, the very fact that it exists should be respected. It doesn't need to be perfect to serve a purpose of paving the way. Not all laptops need to be bench kings for it to be good. This doesn't excuse the short comings that should not be there like a locked bios etc... however, realize that it's something that just came out of the grave so give it time to evolve and don't expect it to be perfect.

Being more level headed and realistic about its expectations will keep things more grounded for everyone. What may help for some is to think of the Area 51M, NOT as a desktop, but more of a crossover that sits between the regular gaming laptops and a desktop. ie... regular gaming laptops PLUS model.

We will know soon enough where it stands. IF, it can perform above average and provide people with an usable machine that can game well and execute resource intensive tasks then great. IF, it can fly at altitudes that we didn't think it could then even better...

I'd rather be surprised than to complain per-maturely about something that hasn't even been released yet to the masses.

 

given the constant scope about GPU changing, more powerful, different form factor and possibly higher TDP i think it is expected. remember before the desktop 980 cards, we all have 980m/880m etc the cut down of actual desktop 970/770 etc.

what i do not agree is over charging. mobile cards has way less materials so it should technically cost less than desktop cards but due to how little DTR laptops exist the pricing is extraordinary.

 

PCH temps are almost irrelevant to CPU/GPU overclocking. cpu OC would mean faster storage due to less in latency, which the storage connects to the PCH may result in higher temp. the only time you'll notice temp on PCH going up is if you have storage devices running, and also turn off ASPM or LSPM w/e power saving feature it has for more performance.

generally it is not something to worry about, unless it defaults to 90c rofl.

 

They overcharge, cause the PCB is alot smaller, making the manufacturing tolerances smaller. Yields are lower and it needs special methods for soldering all the parts on to the PCB. every year when chips get smaller, the performance goes up, but they also try to cram more and more on to the PCB. The zotac 1080 mxm is longer than the mxm b spec to accommodate an additional mounting point for the heatsink for example, the Motherboard have to know the ID of the card and have to know the fan temp sensor on it. This is a big problem in practice because Alienware use a different temp sensor on their board as Clevo in the same series. For MXM the fan header is on ther motherboard and not on the MXM board so the motherboard will control the fan. If the board can not regocnize the temp sensor the fan will spin at 100%. and so are there more reasons i can sum up why it's expensive as hell.

 

thats the issue here. yields are smaller also simply because less are being produced. with more being made, yields can improve just based off numbers along.

these other cards are also somewhat restricted but you know back then the 680m which was a desktop 670, cost about $600 per card. assuming inflation are in the cards for a 1070 should be at most $800 regardless of PCB footprint. (this also does not include the fact 1070 should actually be sold as a 1050 or 1060 had AMD stayed competitive)

 

The mobile chips are usually binned higher as well to get "decent" performance into a typically lower TDP package - this probably accounts for most of the cost difference I would imagine

 

A few interesting observations after perusing the service manual:

1) the 2nd M.2 drive is a 2230 form factor (shouldn't really count)
2) the PCH is on the back of the motherboard from the RAM and CPU so harder to get too and likely much harder to cool effectively
3) both power plugs are connected independently to the motherboard through their own harness (one on top, one on bottom)
4) apparently the vBIOS version will be shown in the BIOS?
5) dynamic backlight control in BIOS - didn't even realize the laptop had dynamic backlight
6) HYPERTHREADING CAN BE TOGGLED IN THE BIOS!!!!
7) VT-d support is there and nice to have if you need it
8) curious to see what gets logged in Thermal and Power events in the BIOS
9) can flash BIOS from USB which is always a nice option just in case

 

HTT is made for people to prevent Spectre like exploits for AW owners in case BIOS support is stopped. VT-d was present in older AW too.
A welcome change would be points 4,5 & 8.

 

Those are all points I pulled from the service manual so I assume they are coming

Only speculative part is what the contents of those logs will be for point 8

 

DPTF is coming back along with advanced control and advanced tweaking for users.

 

Seems like Dell took down the Service Manual. Can you share a copy of that manual?

 

Sure, I just downloaded it right before posting haha

edit: hmmmm, its 26 MB lol - forum max is 2MB files

Definitely still online?

https://www.dell.com/support/home/u...t/product/alienware-17-area51m-laptop/manuals

 

Weird. The previous link in this thread didn't work but this does. Thanks.

I wonder if the PCH touches to any pad if it's at the backside of the board. On my 17R5, I was able to get away with slightly cooler temperatures on my PCH by inducing more airflow.

 

What a nice solution to resolve different problems Dell use the DPTF-Aka Cancer software for almost all their notebook models. As their most valuable magic fix

 

Or. . .you know use real thermal compound and let the user have control over the fans so we can keep things cool ourselves.

 

On my model, DPTF is simply a placeholder and it is disabled. It seems on some AW and BIOS version DPTF is disabled.

 

Put this JUNK as hardware on MB + adopt it in firmware, then offer drivers on <high performance systems> is the MORONS way to screw you hard! Only one word for this.... Disgusting!

 

I wish the whole MS update stuff was like windows 8 or even windows 7.. where it gives you the option which updates / drivers you want to update.. i have debloated the 1809 myself.. with latest drivers.. i saw a very good FPS minimums increase.. but no matter what, i feel the whole new CPU microcode reduced my cpu performance.. this is what i got with cinebench before 690.. now i hardly can pass 684 with multiple reformat.. no extra background process running.. still cant reach 690 with 1.6.1 BIOS..

 

Tested InSpectre tool ?