*OFFICIAL* Alienware "Graphics Amplifier" Owner's Lounge and Benchmark Thread (All 13, 15 and 17)

What new AGA?

 

What did you jump onto?

 

Indeed, that was thinking too when I jumped on the AGA bandwagon. I justified the M17 because it is a pretty ''light'' gaming laptop compared to others. Which my back is thankful for since I travel so much for work.

But the dismissive language is a signal to me that the AGA is not viable anymore. And there will not be an update/upgrade to the AGA. Otherwise, the reps would be a lot more polite since they want users to stay on the train and buy the new stuff.

As for other enclosures, I am just aware of the Razer Core, but I am not sure which would be good enough for the single TB3 slot I have on the back of the M17. And that is a hard choice for me too since I already use that TB3 for a dock. Do you guys have suggestions to consider while we watch the AGA go down?

 

well I went full desktop build and done with all the compromise craps
Been using Alienware since Dell era from 2009 till now, it was a fun but sad journey, seeing my favorite laptop brand went down the drain like this

 

I don't know of one being announced, I am merely believing since all the laptops have them, the won't just EOL the existing one without a replacement.

 

But desktops isn't fully locked....


Proprietary design will always have it's awful drawbacks!!!

 

*desktops ( NOT Alienware Aurora)
/hit me a DM about the AGA, been itching to throw it to trash bin

 

Maybe they will just EOL AW and replace it will a full fat Dell line.

 

They could still use the scull

 

Safe bet most AW customers just want to buy AW products as they used to know them.
Who knows, maybe Dell is taking damage from that EMC deal or for some other reason, and bean counters started cutting. Well, if so RIP AW, you weren't perfect but it was fun.

 

I still kind of hope AMD 6800XT cards might work at least..

 

So has anyone figured out if there are plans for a “Legend” design refresh of the AGA? Like others have said, the outgoing one looks hella old in terms of the design language...

I’d be kind of surprised that AW would bother (as in, incur the expense in PCB design, manufacturing and software integration) to include the AGA port on all Legend design notebooks (51M, 15m, 17m, in all their R1/2/3 flavors) just to kill off the AGA completely and lose out on that additional revenue stream and marketing “hook” that brings fools such as myself to AW camp with plans to get an AGA when my onboard GPU isn’t enough for the latest titles (I have a 51m).

From a business standpoint, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to kill it off completely. The old one may be EOL, but my money is on a refresh coming soon to get it in line of the design language of all the other peripherals (mice/kb/displays/headphones).

So, anyone know anything?

 

^
My only recommendation: Just don't have any expectations for Dell, anymore

 

Change for the sake of change is very stupid. If Dell is going to refresh the graphics amplifier, it needs to have some objective improvements to provide any value.

This is like whenever google decides to redesign their interfaces and they end up making some things confusing for a while. You have to at least partially relearn the interface.

 

Well it wouldn’t just be a design language update I think, not a change for the sake of change... if they have learned anything it’s that the community often mod the AGA with a better PSU and/or chop pieces off to make larger cards fit, for example.

Also, they could add updated ports/interfaces to the “new” AGA too. Anyway, idk, there are things to improve/evolve the current AGA that I think would justify a redesign/refresh + my point above on “why include the AGA port in all notebooks if you’re not going to support new cards?” (...so as to have it have a point, e.g. if you can’t fit a better card into the AGA when the 3080 mobile comes out for, say, the 51m R3, why would AW bother to add the AGA port to it?).

To your point, it would make absolutely no sense to just change the plastic in the outside to make it look like the updated peripherals. My business sense considering the costs to include the AGA port, the marketing pull from including it and saying “omg AGA for future proofing”, and the lack of a redesign for the AGA in so many years, screams to me a redesign is coming and they’re killing the current version of the AGA to start and will launch a refresh soon enough.

 

I dont think anyone really cares about the design language, as its all moot unless its using PCIE 4.0 otherwise no one who actually knows what 3.0 is vs 4.0 will ever buy it, you would have better use lighting that money on fire as kindling to make dinner.

 

Well, we've been talking about this for a while. Nobody knows anything, and Dell insiders stay quiet.

You say that it makes no sense, but you probably lack a lot of information about what's going on at Dell. As you noted, a lot of people use the cheap AGA to defer a multi-thousand dollar laptop update. Sounds like something that Dell might view as a negative for the business, just as they now evidently hate people upgrading RAM on their own.

I would share your view that these are vicious and seemingly nonsensical policies which means I am all but lost as a customer, but this is just my perspective.

Remember, the spirit of old Alienware is evidently gone. Now it seems to be all about maximising short term profit, value for the users and their satisfaxtion be damned.

 

This guy is so weird. Why would he message me this and not just respond to it in the thread? I mean, I am no psychic nor am I trying to act like one. But he could have easily asked this in that thread if he wanted to defend their decision a bit, instead of like, hiding lol. Also, I can't even respond to PMs on Dells forums with Chrome, I had to log into Firefox for a reply button to be visible. I hate that forum so much

 

Ask him if a new AGA is coming.

 

I can ask but I doubt he will respond. He seems to prefer responding with unhelpful info. Why ask "who said this" instead of just responding with "this is why we made this decision". Like at this point their mind is made up, at least humor us a little bit with their reasoning

 

This indicative of the toxic culture/policy. The reasons could be good (they are working on new amazing products and want to surprise us), but more likely they want to limit public's view into the sh1tshow within.

Obviously, the guy seems fairly abrasive - kind of like a volunteer mod in a bad section of a community-run forum, rather than a salaried professional working for a major listed company.

 

Of course I don’t know what is going on inside Dell or their product roadmaps. Just speaking from prior experience.

And yeah, I hear you... at a glance, bigger money comes from buying new laptops, but again my business sense and having product management experience, what I would do and ANY product manager with a good head on this shoulders would and should realize is the competitive advantage and lock-in power that exists via the AGA with users. They could easily piece the following story together:

1. User buys AW (yay profits!)
2. Users AW laptop ages, and there’s potential to get them to buy another one instead of an AGA... (your logic, good, the “Me greedy Dell want moar moneyz” mentality) BUT, Dell is not the only laptop brand out there... the user could buy literally ANY other brand for less money and same specs usually (the exception, I thought, was the 51m which I would be able to upgrade the GPU, end of rant on this...)
3. Fortunately, this particular user has dived into the AW ecosystem and has a laptop PLUS AGA (that doesn’t work on any other competitors laptop, imagine that? AND it works better than thunderbolt eGPUs, so it’s a superior product on paper), so, the user continues to use and tout how great his laptop is because he can give it a GPU boost with the AGA.
4. Users laptop ages more or eventually stops working. Since the user has the AGA, which can only be used with AW laptops, they are VERY likely to buy another AW laptop when they DO decide to upgrade.

Also consider:
- Most users don’t upgrade often... especially with a high end laptop.
- When they do upgrade they shop EVERYWHERE, and then decide. It’s better to have your hooks in them with an ecosystem than with single product value propositions (e.g. if the user is shopping and the only thing AW can offer is “the laptop” that the user compares to any other laptop out there, the playing field is level and Dell doesn’t have a leg up on its competition to have better chances of having that user return; the AGA does this for EVERY person out there that has an AW laptop + AGA. If they are going to buy a new laptop OF COURSE they think about the fact that they have an AGA and will look to Dell first or will have it high in their consideration).
- Recurring revenue is more valuable than one-time revenue. Increasing your chances of extending consumer lifetime revenue is more valuable in net present value than a big sale very sporadically (if any). Anyone with half a brain in business knows this.

My 2 cents. I am hoping for an AGA refresh too... so I am biased. I have a 51m R1 and an ultra pissed off that there is 0 upgrade path for the GPU, so my hopes are on an AGA to use this longer when the 2080 ages, otherwise I am for sure not ever going to buy another AW laptop (this would be my first and last one). The reason? There’s no reason to stay... every other BGA/LGA laptop is pretty much the same (no GPU upgrade paths, yeah there’s some MXM options, but they’re limited too, which the DGFF had the opportunity of changing).

Sooo: IF I had my 51m and a new AGA rocking a 4080 or whatever in the future in 1-2 years, and my laptop finally died or I wanted to change it, I would strongly consider a 51m R4/R5 or whatever... or maybe a lighter 15m or 17m, knowing I could use the AGA to boost it.

If I don’t have an AGA at that point (I don’t right now and with the EOL, I won’t buy one now obviously...) I will buy something else. And very likely will every other user that got burned with hopes of using the AGA, and for certain everyone that got a 51m R1.

 

Also, I’ve been keeping my eye on the AGA for a while anticipating a redesign. The current one is SO old... and I know it’s been talked about for a while, I’ve been watching around the web.

I haven’t purchased one waiting for something to happen! This is the most news I’ve seen about it pretty much since it came out (that it’s EOL)! lol.

 

I don't think Alienware would kill off AGA now, it's one of their main features compared to other brands IMHO, at least until the TB3/4 controller limiting bandwidth stops being the issue (like e.g. on Intel Tiger Lake CPUs where the controller is integrated).

They are probably simply limited by the PSU they used in the AGA.

Radeon 6800XT seems to fair better consumption wise so here's hoping it might work:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-6800-xt/31.html

 

Speaking from experience, Dell usually does not comment on future products or theoretical products to avoid misleading people (I know some of you will have a riot with that reasoning, but it is true). So it'll be moot to ask if a new AGA is coming. They like to keep things close to their chest, so to speak.

Also, I'll play devil's advocate about the PSU and say that the RTX 3080 and RTX 3090 are indeed power-hungry GPUs. Given that 375w of the 460w PSU is dedicated to the graphics, and that Alienware validates the cards based on their reference design (or in this case, the Founders Edition), it shouldn't be surprising that they're uneasy with giving them the OK for the AGA. That said, that doesn't explain why the RTX 3070 (and lower) are not supported as they're in line with Turing power consumption. While it is their fault for including a 460w PSU, they are working with limitations made from the early 2010s. I imagine they did test the Ampere cards in the AGA, but either the engineers or management deemed them too risky to officially support. It also does not help that the Founders Edition use a 12-pin power port rather than the usual 8-pin. Whether they release a new AGA that has a better PSU, you're guess is as good as mine. Would be nice if they did, though.

 

Guess I am getting an AGA, will test to see if the 5700XT works in it at some point, Im already lending my 13 R3 to my nephew as it is because I dont use it at all

 

I'll be testing if the RX 5700 works in it later today. I'm sure if it works, then the RX 5700 XT would too.

 

Ah then you beat me to it, I just have one in my desktop and figured I might as well try it out for anyone interested.

 

RX 5700Xt will work just fine, but good luck for things release after that lol

 

Anything more and there would be quite a bit of imbalance from the lack of CPU grunt anyways, well thats more specific to the 13 R3.

Another reason why I wish it was 7820hk with no GPU and then that would actually make the AGA make more sense but w/e I guess lol

 

I think all bets are off at the moment.

I'm not questioning your argument, I'm questioning whether Dell will follow your reasonable argument, given their recent track record.

 

Should I try to like, trade info with him? Like "you tell me something and I'll tell you something" lol. He is really confused cuz I used quotes when I said the thing about the PSU, but I thought it was obvious I wasn't actually quoting anybody. But he's being so pushy like an interrogator. I don't wanna say too much and scare him away, but I don't want to be like "nobody told me" and then he stops responding all together

But if we spent 200$ on the AGA, can't they simply put out a disclaimer like "hey so if you use that crappy PSU we included with all the coil whine, loudness, high heat, it might start a fire due to high wattage load... butttt anyway install this file for some RTX 3000 series compatibility". That would be acceptable.

 

Sorry if I came off as defensive or something lol, just reread my post. I meant no confrontation nor did I think you were questioning the argument. We are on the same page. Yes, Dell’s recent track record is really crap, I feel the burn especially for trusting in the 51m R1. No better example of the crap going on than that in my opinion!

I’m hoping for a new AGA, if not that’ll be the final straw for me. Never coming to AW again. Sad that I dreamed as a kid of owning one, then I finally have the means, get my first, and am thoroughly disappointed with the support/longevity since it was a complete sham.

 

Why would you even consider a 2nd one if the first one is perfectly fine? There is literally no reason for it. This makes me think of like phones.

Android phones are supported with updates for 2 years or so. You buy a phone, your phone has good enough hardware for many android updates, but its only supported for 2 years or so. Sucks right? Yes, because even though the phone can support more, it officially does not, due to extra development and optimization needed. The difference here is, magically everything from a 960 to a 2080Ti, EXCEPT the 2060, is compatible? You are trying to tell me a Titan GPU can work but a 2060 cannot? That's suspicious. And I remember someone on these forums having problems with their 2060 and them being told "it is not supported". They are all PCIE GPU. All with ranges of wattage, using the same GPUs just cut down in lesser performing versions.

This isn't a matter of a GPU being 'incompatible', this is a matter of a GPU being forcefully unsupported by Dell. You plug a GPU into a motherboard and it works, you don't need to update firmware on a PCIE slot.

Android phones have a huge development process with bootloader locks and bloatware, requiring lots of testing and ensuring it works perfectly with updated OS, so that is why I consider that fair, but it sucks. But this AGA with how Dell is treating it? That is not fair, because they specifically are holding it back. Some of the 3000 series is more efficient than the 2080Ti. They could say "3050 is fine, 3060 is fine, 3070 is fine, everything else isn't compatible" and I would respect it even if I didn't agree with it. But they are just being a trash company

 

Got the RX 5700 to work with my laptop. It took quite a bit more effort than I'd like, but that may have been because the model I have has 2 VBIOSes, and the AGA doesn't like one of them.

 

Why is this more risky than put in the new cards into their desktops builds who come with same "weak" PSU? Officially support is only a stamp and shouldn't stop you from put in whatever card you want.

My nightmare experience with @DellCare / Dell Complete Care Warranty / EMEA Dell support FULL DETAILS INCLUDED

You could as well ask why Dell have removed the 2080 upgrade for Area-51M... https://www.dell.com/community/Alie...a-51m-R1-GeForce-RTX-2080-upgrade/m-p/7717143

Exactly. Some of their desktops also won't get the support stamp. But they will still work if there is enough space and you put in a better adapter... http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ll-13-15-and-17.770323/page-471#post-11057210

 

Never implied or said Dell was the end-all be all for what works or doesn't work. I've even ran unsupported graphics cards in Dell systems before just fine (well, the mobile RX 460 in the M4800 needed some fan tweaking). The FAQ I once made for Alienware Arena even listed GPUs that worked in Alienwares but may have not been officially supported.

Also, if I recall correctly, Dell won't support certain PSU + GPU combos in their products.

 

Welp, I only got it to work once. After it decided to attack my monitor, I can't get it to work again. Both the BIOS and Windows detects it, the AMD driver detects it, but it doesn't want to work. And it'll crash the laptop. I'm thinking having a G-Sync laptop might be the problem, the GPU is the problem, or my AGA is faulty in some way.

 

It's OK, I don't plan on buying a Dell laptop anytime soon. And surely won't buy another AGA. They got a bunch of changes to make before I'd consider another one. They're gonna have to think of something better than a "AGA port" to differentiate their laptops, I won't fall for that again. Some people clearly will but that's their money

 

Guess I can try with mine then, I don't have gsync anything as I don't have need/desire for it.

 

Thanks for trying! Especially with a lot of cards been bought by scalpers!

Though I have to say that I am a bit despondent and worried that the Radeon cards might not work with the AGA...

 

They just have to edit a little text file in the AWCC. But will they ?

 

If that is all it needs, people will figure out how to reverse engineer.

 

I mean, I am no software engineer. But considering the number of features we can get back from editing registry or making some text file edits, it wouldn't surprise me. At first I thought it was a 'compatibility' thing too, until I was shown info about how often Dell takes away features and compatibility. I then it had me thinking, since when do desktops need a bios update to support new GPU on a PCIE slot? When does a PCIE slot need updates? Never. PCIE was the future because of what it is, you plug stuff in and it works. Even Nvidia GPU, some of their features are hidden behind edits in the drivers and registry. If you ask support, they will say its 'not compatible' or doesn't exist, but the slightest of change can prove otherwise.

This isn't a GPU incompatibility. This is Dell going out of their way to create a false sense of incompatibility. Maybe if the AWCC was open source, that would be easy to get any GPU working. But its kinda hard to play with closed source software, especially when its being hindered in an attempt to increase profits

 

If it's with the AWCC, then it would only be limited to newer models that were able to have RGB-per-key lighting as they changed the hardware/software (I forget which).

 

Well just got the AGA + Rm550x for 100 USD

Now to find some cheap 1080 to then make into a hybrid card.

Is the power use of the onboard GPU disabled/negated when you use the AGA?

 

Don't forget that Dell sometimes add in AGA enhancements and fixes in the bios. No point in make it work if you encounter stability issues or lackluster graphics performance due the proprietary eGPU design.

 

Here is someone running a m17 r3 with a 3080.
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/15417032
Based on the graphics score, this has to be an AGA and not a TB3 eGPU. One other thing, that I have noticed, is that it appears that it is much more difficult to get an AGA working properly with drivers since Windows version 2004.This benchmark is running 1904.

 

I can't confirm the integrity of this software, but this person Shidell put something on GitHub and is looking for help in trying to unofficially add support to the AGA. I have no experience with looking through open-source stuff for vulnerabilities though, so if anyone reputable can confirm its safe to allow others to help Shidell get info that would be awesome. I don't even know where I would start to do such a thing, but I know the point of GitHub is leaving everything on the table to build trust

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/comments/jxvnga/project_opencaldera_exploring_adding_unofficial/

 

I just took a look at the code and it is doing nothing more that getting file and bios information and then displaying that on screen. I don't have any worries running it. I've been writing software for over 25 years.