*OFFICIAL* Alienware X Series Owners Lounge and Discussion

Wow, that's terrible. Why on Earth is there a combined power budget of 210W for these two components? I thought the laptop came with a 330W adapter?

Edit: this was a false alarm, further reports showed a higher combined power budget, around 240-250W.

 

Honestly, I have no idea why. Youtuber red gloves also highlighted this strange issue a month or two back with Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Battlefield V.

Look at 2:28 in this video. When the combined power draw exceed 205-210W it exhibits pretty startlingly power throttling. Temperatures were well below throttling in all these benchmarks so it only has to deal with the combined power budget that's causing the throttling.

alienware x17 11980hk rtx3080 shadow of the tomb raider benchmark 1080p frame,temps - YouTube

At 2:28 it goes from

CPU: ~64W

GPU: ~140W

CPU+GPU power draw ~204W

to

CPU: ~27W

GPU: ~117W

CPU+GPU power draw ~144W



You can see it also happening with Battlefield V

alienware x17 11980hk rtx3080 battlefield 5 frame,temps test (is this throttling?) - YouTube


At 2:27 it goes from

CPU: ~73W, 92C

GPU: ~131W, 74C

CPU+GPU power draw ~204W

throttles all the way down to

CPU: ~27W

GPU: ~107W

CPU+GPU power draw ~134W

 

This may be why the i7 outprforms the i9 in some benches. I gues the i9 has to be undervolted and underclocked. I did a torture test today: Cinebench R23 and Superposition running at once. When the i9 gets to 100c very strong throttling sets in. I guess to assure the 3080 gets it´s 165W the cpu has to be repasted with LM and the powerdraw limited to i7 level of 45W. At first glance I was very impressed by the 4 fan cooling. However, the smaller 2 fans contribution to heat transfer out of the chassis is rather pathetic, they rotate with 3000rpm max and hyou can barely feel exhausted air with your hand in comparison to the 2 bigger fans. It could very well be that the m17 R4 cooling system is stronger.

 

The 330W and 4 fan design were some of the reasons I bought the laptop. It is the only 3080 laptop using one big chunky 330W poweradapter so I believed the unit can draw around 300W without a problem.

 

Best thing to do is to disable all drivers in Device Manager relating to Intel Dynamic Tuning. I had the same issue but no more power throttling and with Liquid metal, constant 4.6ghz whilst gaming on Call of Duty maxes the CPU out at around 87-88c. GPU around 70c

 

Likewise, you might have (rather optimistically) thought that sporting SODIMM slots allows the laptop to utilize third party RAM modules to their full potential...
In absence of a major technological breakthrough, as long as they keep foolishly chasing Apple's idea of laptop design, performance will have to suffer. What one might fight objectionable is that the products are advertised as wonderful no compromise designs. This is clearly false.

 

Thanks for the advice. I will pause the Intel Dynamic Tuning service and see if this fixes the issue.

 

The gear 2 and locked bios without options to change what you want is probably needed for cheapo made laptop motherboards. The saviour for Dell to be able to offer their expensive speedy custom OEM 3466MHz sticks. You trade latency for speed. This doesn't always match what you hope for. Intel offer both Gear 1 and 2.

 

Unfortunately, this did not work. I stopped Intel Dynamic Tuning in the services window and I still get the dreaded sudden drop in CPU and GPU power in the Tomb Raider benchmark.

Just curious though when you were testing it in Call of Duty what wattages were your CPU and GPU using at the time? If your GPU power draw was relatively low at the time then that would explain why you were getting 4.6ghz sustained when playing the game. I can also get sustained 4.6ghz in Call of Duty when I cap my fps to 120 since GPU utilization is significantly lower compared to leaving it unlimited.

 

Seeing all these performance issues being posted I'm having second thoughts on actually continuing to wait on my X17. Last thing I want to do is waste 4k on something that's not going to live up to its performance specification wise.
May cancel her out, grab myself an MSI GE76

Sent from my EVR-N29 using Tapatalk

 

A short update on the power throttling issue with the X17.

I was running the old bios version 1.1.2 when those issues arose. I just updated to the most recent bios version 1.2.1 and I'm happy to report that the power throttling issue is not occurring right now. I ran the Tomb Raider benchmark several times and the power didn't randomly fall off the cliff like we saw earlier. It is sustaining 200-210W combined CPU+GPU power draw just fine now. Looks like Dell fixed the issue and MogRules over in the Alienware subreddit pulled through with getting them to look into the issue.

Hopefully, this provides you with some comfort @turilo.

 

Is the result better now?

 

I'm gonna wait until my apartment cools down before I do benchmarking for scores. My room temperature is a balmy 30C right now. XD

 

The secondary smaller fans probably take too much air away, or obstructs it in such way the bigger fans cannot suck enough air to dissipate the hot air out of the chassis. I suspect this heatsink design was created as a marketing gimmick, not really a performance piece.

 

Wait, os the issue was that the system could not even sustain 200W, but now you are happy 200-210W is sustained with a 330W adapter?

It though the issue was that power is capped at 210W to begin with.

 

I guess the 330W power brick is fully compatible with x17 3070 version, right? I'm thinking about buying it from Dell store and reserve the slim one for travels.

 

There were two ongoing issues.

1) When the CPU+GPU power draw exceeded 205-210W you would get these really gross drops in power where the combined CPU+GPU power draw would drop suddenly from 205-210W all the way down to 130-140W. This was the issue that is fixed with the newest bios 1.2.1.

2) The other issue is that the CPU+GPU total power budget seems to be capped to 210W. The cooling system can definitely handle more power but currently we are limited by the dynamic boost 2.0 from going beyond this combined CPU+GPU power draw. This has not been addressed yet by Dell.

 

Had 28°C ambient yesterday too when i did the benches.

 

To be fair, can you check the power draw at the wall?

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a Kill a Watt meter to measure that. I mainly monitor power draw using the built in OSD from MSI Afterburner.

 

Just grab none off Amazon? Come to think of it, 330W is likely quoted as the external power draw. Then the adapter has some efficiency, probably in the region of 70-80%, which means that 210W power budget for the CPU and GPU is all you are going to get. Which would explain why some other high-end laptops have dual power power bricks...

 

Dont forget fans, Display, SSD etc... They need power too.

The 330w should have more than 70%... That would result in 100w of heat would have to be dissipated.

No. efficiency losses are added on top. The 330w adapter provide 330w to the components. Under full load you see 330w + efficiency losses at the kill a watt.

 

I haven't seen a power supply ever being rated based on how much it draws from the wall. The rated wattage always indicates much power it can output. So in this case the 330W power supply can deliver 330W to the X17.

 

How do you know that? Not sure about laptop power adapters, but aren't all desktop power supplies rated on the external draw basis? Otherwise it would be an electrical safety issue.

 

No.


OUTPUT 330w

My AX1500i

DC OUTPUT on 12v Rail 1500w.


Same with every other power supply, same with electric engines. The information on the typeplate indicates the nominal power that can be delivered.

Efficiency varies (among other things) depending on load and temperature. How should an engineer design a system to the power supply when the specification indicates the input side and the engineer does not know exactly how much power the power supply can provide?

 

Just wrote the tutorial to enable dGPU only with x17 and 4K screen. Here you are:
Enable MUX on Alienware x17 4K@120hz tutotial | NotebookReview

 

Well, I stand corrected. Makes sense. Still not clear where the often encountered advice to never load a desktop PSU above around 60% comes from.

Anyway, I failed at playing the devil's advocate here: looks like there is plenty of power to push the CPU+GPU past 210W. Perhaps the limitation is there because that's where Dell thinks the safety limit is due to the capacity of the combined thin cooling solution.

 

The peak of the efficiency curve for a PSU occurs roughly when you're running it at 40-60% of it's rated capacity. That's where that 60% figure comes from.

 

The X17 equipped with a 3080 and an i9 is capable of using up to 240 Watt for the CPU and GPU alone, like can be ssen in this screenshot where I ran Superposition bench and Cinebench R23 in the background. This goes on till the CPU reaches 100C, then it is hard throttling the cpu frequency down to 2xxx MHz for a while. Add in the rest of the components and I guess it will draw around 280W from the wall for some time till it overheats. I will check tomorrow with a watt meter. If I could get my CPU from not overheating (LM anyone?), the 330W power brick would be justified.

In modern (RTX) games however, I see the GPU mostly around 150-165W and the CPU around 40W. You have to really torture the X17 to get it to consume around 240W combined CPU+GPU, but it is possible.

 

OK, false alarm then

 

Hey Everybody,

I am purchasing a laptop for my son who has graduated college. We are having a tough time deciding between the Alienware x15 and x17. We will would go for the 3070 card in each. Our budget would be around $2,600.00. He is a somewhat serious gamer, although not a hardcore one. Gaming would be his primary use of this laptop along with school work internet etc.

Size and weight is not too much of a concern. We know the x15 has soldered on ram etc so we would order the most ram we could although we like the idea of the upgrade-ability of the x17.

The main dilemma is the lack of a QHD screen on the x17.

He likes the idea of the bigger screen on the X17.

How important is having a QHD display for gaming?

Thanks!

 

If I had the choice I would go QHD an a 17 incher.

 

Will probably do a LM repaste in the next days. What is the thickness of the pads used on this heatsink? 1mm?

 

Not only does the x15 suffer from slow soldered RAM, the GPU is also significantly limited in terms of power, and I/O ports are sad.

As for QHD, probably not worth it on a 15 inch screen. In 17 inches though, all depends on what kind of games are involved. If there is a lot of tiny text detail or ultra high-refresh rates are needed then probably not, othewise QHD would make sense particularly given that the hardware should handle it well

 

IMO 1080p for a 17'' display is enough. At least for gaming.

 

FHD is fine for gaming but the 4K display is phenomenal for productivity work. He will most likely have multiple documents/webpages/windows open simultaneously on his screen while he is using it in college. When you have that many things going on it's hard to multitask with an FHD screen because text and images become grainy as you try to minimize and split screen things since the dpi is low. With a 4K panel this isn't an issue. Everything remains sharp even if your split screening and viewing multiple minimized windows on the same panel.

Also, the 4K model has adaptive sync so gameplay is smooth and tear free. 120 Hz is also more than satisfactory for gaming these days. Unless your son is a professional competitive gamer, the Alienware X17 with the 4K panel should satisfy both his gaming needs in addition to his schooling needs.

Battery life is also pretty decent for light tasks that he does in school too. Expect 5-7 hours on the X17 with the 4k panel, with medium brightness and screen set to 60Hz doing light tasks like web browsing, editing documents, etcetera ...

EDIT: Also whichever model you decide to purchase always contact sales support beforehand and check the Rakuten cashback. You will want the Rakuten plugin to be active on the order page before you contact sales support. Rakuten cashback can be anywhere from 2-10% which you can stack on top of the discounts sales support provides. Tell them the laptop will be used for school and they will provide education discounts(e.g. I got $500 off on my purchase). If they miss shipping or delivery estimates contact them again for additional reimbursements(e.g. I got $200 back on my order).

 

I would think the quesrion is not whether gaming is fine on a 17 inch FHD screen, but whether it's better on a QHD display. There is probably a reason why Lenovo Legion owners are raving about their QHD displays...

 

I redid the tests with Tomb Raider. FPS is still the same. It seems the limiting factor wasn't due to the random power drop but rather the 200-210W combined CPU+GPU power budget that dynamic boost 2.0 imposes. The power sharing is still kneecapping the performance.

 

Needed a portable system for some gaming around the house and at my other office sites. Dont ever use my desktop or big 17 inch laptops anymore so sold them off. Grabbed the X15 from bestbuy, should arrive Wednesday! 11800H, 3070, 360hz panel, and grabbed a 1TB gen 4 980 pro.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/alienw...-3070-512gb-ssd-white/6464984.p?skuId=6464984

 

I have heard bad things about the X15, I hope its good for you but there is always the return period!

 

Yeah I've been mainly watching YouTube reviews and users reporting on Reddit. Most seem happy with the X15. I won't be using this machine like my others and tuning it all day and night. Just need something sleek, premium, that can play all types of games at decent settings. The only treatment I'll give this thing is undervolting. As I lose more and more time to tinker with PCs, loops, overclocking, benching...I just want something that looks awesome that I can take anywhere and still keep up gaming when I can. Sad....but it's better than shifting to just mobile gaming

 

Hey Guys, thanks for all the helpful responses. I got a couple of follow up questions.

With the x15 or x17 and a 3070 card I assume I could use an external monitor that was QHD and runs at 240Hz?

I am a verified teacher with I.D.Me. Does Alienware offer teacher's discounts?

Thanks again!

 

Yes, you can run it on an external monitor.

Yes, they do. Just contact sales support and let them know you are a teacher.

 

I plug my X17 w/3070 sometimes to my external display (QHD 165Hz) and it performs pretty well. Keep in mind that only eSports titles will get > 150hz while gaming. But if your monitor haves GSync its a smooth experience.

 

I don't have anything particularly against QHD displays. I just think we are 1-2 laptop generations too early to demonstrably say the hardware can handle the resolution in AAA games for the foreseeable future(2-4 years), especially slim laptops with low tdp GPUs.

You can of course always reduce the rendered resolution to 1080p when games are struggling to play at 1440p and have it upscale to 1440p, but the lack of integer scaling leads to soft/blurry edges which defeats the purpose of the higher resolution display. Some people aren't picky though so the presence of blurriness isn't a particularly glaring issue. This isn't a problem if you try to upscale 1080p on a 4k screen, where integer scaling is applicable. In this particular case 4K displays still have an edge. If productivity is also a concern then between the three options of FHD, QHD and 4K the 4K still has an edge.

Once hardware improves a bit more I would definitely recommend QHD over FHD, but for the moment it's still a tossup, especially for thin and light laptops with low tdp GPUs.

People also love the Legion QHD display for a variety of reasons. For many it's the first time they've used a display so bright(500 nits) on a laptop. Other's also are hyped about using a display with a 16:10 aspect ratio. Add to the fact that Lenovo priced there laptops competitively in the market with discounts it's hard not to praise it. The Legion lineup also isn't held back by low tdp GPUs so the hardware being unable to handle the resolution isn't as big of an issue.

 

Eh? My 2070 MQ 90W handled 4K fine for casual gaming and was blasting through QHD. I would only ever play games in 4K or QHD, except CSGO. Sure, there may be a latest title or two with crazy HW requirements that would require a drop to FHD, but having the option to play at QHD is good.

With 4K at 17 inch though, I think it's a case of diminishing returns. I don't believe most people would find it comfortable to use in desktop applications without massive scaling, and the delta between visual quality of QHD and 4K on a 17 inch screen is likely quite subtle for most people. You could try to argue that people who would like higher resolution in gaming should just get then 4K panel, but gaming content at lower than native resolution tends to look less pleasant and the 4K SKU does not have a proper MUX switch, thus performance suffers significantly due to a combination of Optimus and slow RAM.

See, the trap here is defending the indefensible as an owner, instead of just admitting the obvious: a QHD display option would have been a positive.

 

Oh dear, 16GB of slow soldered RAM. At least it's sleek, like a Razer.

 

That's the point. QHD is maybe the sweet spot between having the best gaming future proof device and a good productivity one. So would be nice if Dell gave us the option to chose a QHD display too.
With only 1080p and 4k panels as options, you must choose between 'gaming' and 'productivity' display.

More options is always better.

 

Exactly. I don't even see how 4K is a productivity display at 17 inch. Perhaps it's good for photo and and video editing (but then is that so because of the resolution per se or superior colour reproduction?), and in either case I can't believe anyone can use it at 100% scaling on a 17 inch display.

 

In my personal opinion the 4K display is the best option which is currently available by Alienware 17" notebooks. With RTX 3080 many games can be played in native resolution. Of course in some AAA titles you need to lower the resolution to QHD, which is perfectly fine for me. In my eyes this is very crisp and sharp on 17". Colors and contrasts are just fantastic. I would never choose another display currently. I have seen the 4K on the Razer Blade 17 Early 2021 and the Alienware one is so much better

A native QHD G-Sync display would have been the sweet spot, but this is only available for the ASUS Zephyrus S17 I guess. So 4K is the way to go