*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M R1 Owner's Lounge

I just run 1.5.0, max fans in BFV, performance fans on everything else...

I want max performance, always, no half or diminished clocks, ever. Even if I had to lose G-Sync, I’d still be on 1.5.0...

It’s crazy to me that others can’t make the trade off between [Do I want my DTR to give me max performance gaming] vs [Do I want gimped performance with G-Sync]?

To me the answer is abundantly clear. I’d forego G-Sync any day. There are vertical sync options that will get you practically the same result (no tearing, etc).

The speed on the RAM is where I’m a bit disappointed. I have 2666 MHz running at 2400 MHz, and it will likely remain that way. Again, trade offs: [Do I want max performance from my CPU and GPU] vs [Do I want faster RAM, at the expense of gimped performance on the rest of my system]?

Again the answer is simple.

In RAM, MHz isn’t everything... timings/latency tell the full story, so even getting a good set of 2400 MHz memory could give you 90-95% of the performance you’d get with slightly faster RAM (within reason... we’re not able to run +4000 MHz memory here anyway)

 

Agreed with everyone’s help and research we CAN make it work acceptably it’s just annoying that we have to jump through hoops to do it.

Not what I expected from Alienware, from Dell yes sadly.

In my mind Dell already had a somewhat undesirable reputation, but I had hoped that Alienware still had higher standards and that the hardware and design would be good, and I could tune it as needed, unfortunately Dells heavy hand and desire to control costs and mitigate possible exposure due to overheating / burning issues make it a less then pleasant experience.


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Has anyone tried running the edited RAM that successfully ran at 2933 MHz in 1.8.1 back on bios 1.5.0? Just for kicks? To see if it will still run faster on 1.5.0?

 

Also it may matter that i9-9900KS is not supported / I have no OC control in AWCC for CPU, now in my initial opinion that’s a good thing one less thing being messed with by AWCC but now I’m not so sure, I’m suspecting that AWCC might actually still be trying to adjust based on what it’s tables tell it a 9900 K should be doing,

For example continue throttle when GPU is already cooled, possibly it’s just going by CPU load sometimes and not realizing that the KS runs cooler?

I am not sure how sophisticated AWCC is at knowing the actual state of the machine.


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Avoid it for sure. My worst mistake... go black man.

 

There is also another thread here on NBR which has what you need all in one place.


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Whats the process of rolling back from 1.8.1 to 1.7.3? Do we just run the file or do we need to go through the full downgrade process similar to going back to 1.5.0.

 

Full down grade process


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LOL guess what grade they just got...



Here’s what I wrote on the first block asking me “why the score”:

“The BIOS updates that Dell/Alienware have released have been reducing the system’s performance, all in an attempt to control the number of 2080 GPUs burning out. I still run my unit on BIOS 1.5.0, the last version before severe throttling was put in place, and it is still running perfectly fine. I had to change thermal pads and thermal paste so that this computer could handle the heat the CPU generates, so the thermal solution is severely lacking and you should give I-9900K owners either 1. a heatsink alternative like the leaked vapor chamber version likely coming for the R2 for free OR a thermal interface upgrade to replace thermal pads and thermal paste for free at the VERY LEAST. Also, 2666 MHz memory was shipped that runs at 2400 MHz for early adopters. Now there is an option to purchase an Area-51m with 2933 MHz RAM that is dependent on running BIOS 1.8.1, which has all the severe throttling in place, so users are left with having to choose full CPU/GPU power (on BIOS equal to or lower than 1.5.0) or faster RAM with severe throttling that gimps the system's performance (on BIOS 1.5.4 and above)”

Spoiler: I gave them a big fat ZERO. We’ll see what the R2 brings, but I just cannot recommend to ANYONE to buy the R1 in its current state (or likely ever, who am I kidding).

 

Look here : http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ny-alienware-to-locked-lower-versions.829542/

@Virale : I guess that pretty sums it up... I love my unit, it performs really well, but you have to cheat and workaround the system to. Really a shame for such a beast.

 

The latest Vbios doesnt throttle at all if you are not blocking air intake or overclocking your GPU.

Please share your settings and preset and the community is willing to help you out.

Giving them a big "0" doesnt fix the issue nor help the situation. The extra 20 W wont give you a huge performance leap since Nvidia GPUs boost your Cuda Core Clocks with respect to your thermal limits.

Getting from 78C to 83C (83C is nvidia's set point) might give you at best 5-6% performance increase. The extra 20 W (200W vbios) gave me 108xxx score on timespy while the 180 W 105xxx .

Time Spy isnt a Stress Tool, only gaming sessions 1-4 hours long can you give accurate GPU performance. Actually both vbios are identical if you run games for long duration (1 hour + ) since GPU voltage and frequency will end up at the middle part of the curve (17xx-18xx Mhz) thus the extra 20 W will show only in benchmarks not in gaming.

Mine running 78C @ average 1850-1920 mhz depends on the game, a user on NBR ran metro exodus for some hours and compared the Vbios, guess what the 1.8.1 performed better!

The GPU doesnt burn out at 78C or 83C, poor ventilation and faulty VRM components are the reason or intentional vbios modification to rise voltages and consequently power limits beyond rating.

We never heard fermi or 5 series Radeon burning on Alienwares let alone Volta ( series 200)

Personally, I tested with BFV maxed out & Metro Exodus for hours and never throttle, it drops voltage and frequency accordingly.

Even the new thermal paste is excellent and dell is really trying to rectify the issues with area51m. If you really believe Clevos P7 doesnt throttle then you should really read through users experience.

Vapor chamber is already on Clevos and it didnt improve the cooling to the extend of what you think of. Most Clevo buyers Delid & apply liquid metal paste (which has a short life span compared to generic pastes) in addition to vaport chamber (a minimum of 200$ additional cost) to get 10 C cooler. at best. The new leaked heat Sink for Area51m is probably for experimenting and not for production. I looked for it in Taobao and chinese websites, if its for R2, it would be already listed there.

The 9900K runs @ 4700 Mhz on most chips on stock area51m with 100 mv under volt on average, some users got lucky with silicon and got 4900 and 5000 others with deliding got 5100, most 5000 mhz throttle like no tomorrow even and cant be cooled on air or stock fan cooling on desktops those with 9900Ks are getting worse results for the same frequency (4700 Ks performs WORSE compared to 4700K), we got a couple of Cinebench R20 benchmarks result on 9900ks that shows LOWER performance compared to 9900k (its a complete silicon lottery)

Im not a dell defender, but the area51m is one of the most impressive machines I have ever user, and I have used lot of brands !!!

 

Not a shame, the 9900K is a stupid chip when it comes to consistency.

 

With all due respect, and please don't take any of this as a personal attack it is NOT, I appreciate you posts and info, but what follows is my RANT MODE ON, we are well past the "Your doing it wrong" stage, many other people outside of this forum experience the issue and come here looking for answers , just one good example is Bob of all trades he experienced the throttling and documented it well in his video review and he's no fool he knows his stuff .

To tell people that spent $3-$5K on a Gamming laptop not Overclock it and it will be fine is beyond condescending, the laptop ships with Custom Overclocking software highly advertised and hyped, to expect people not to try and overclock the GPU at least is not realistic.

There are many variables that may account for all the different story's we here, including experience level, different ambient temps, different software environment on each laptop, silicon lottery, manufacturing differences etc.

But honestly to tell people "your doing it wrong" just dial back your expectations ….. well I am sorry that's not going to fly with me

Rant mode OFF

 

If I understand it correctly...

BIOS v1.5.0 and VBIOS v1.0.0.3 still lets you run unthrottled?

Are there any major downsides? Only 2400MHz ram and some panels (not all?) lose G-sync?

 

It's quite temperature sensitive.

 

correct. and right now getting over 2400MHz on your RAM requires special hardware, a software flash, and most importantly a desktop computer that supports the function required to flash the memory to begin with so for a lot of people it isn't a realistic option right now.

 

I run mine on 1.5.0, I have upgraded thermal interface materials, I UV the CPU -104.5 mV and OC and UV the GPU to 925 mV 1980 MHz. I have no quarrel with my system, and I don’t need help.

It’s a beast and I don’t have any issues with throttling BECAUSE I’m on 1.5.0 and I did work to get it manageable (all of the above, running max fans, etc.)

The indisputable fact is that I’m stuck on 1.5.0 because if I upgrade BIOS I’ll take a performance hit from the lowered throttle point on the 2080. Also, max temp is 87, not 83, and in this case “a temp difference of a few degrees will give you X to Y added performance” is just broken logic. If you hit the throttle point you’ll throttle, period. It won’t be a few % less performance.

Along those lines... I never use Prime95 or Furmark (artificial full load benching), nor do I use 3DMark (not a stress test, as you say, and doesn’t get temps to their max after heat saturation). I only play my games and bench my system against itself under the same circumstances in the same games.

All this talk about VRMs and +/- 20 W is PRECISELY why I gave them a 0. I can not recommend this PC to a friend because Dell decided to gimp it via software instead of manning up and keep the 2080 running full temp and clocks and 1. fixing those that burned, and 2. changing their components to make them function AS INTENDED AND ADVERTISED.

The fact that you respond and discuss your points above in the way you do is EXACTLY why I can not recommend this system, that is: will YOU recommend it? Yes (10) or No (0). The decision is binary.

It’s a NO.

Most people here have owned and built many PCs, the way this has been handled by Dell is cowardly.

Also, the vapor chamber comment in my rant to Dell was intended to point out there are still things that can be done to improve cooling. Vapor chamber heatsinks ARE better, I don’t care if it’s -1 degree or -10. They should have designed the thermal solution to be able to exhaust the heat the components generate.

 

On a somewhat related but slightly different note,

Is anyone here familiar with .json files ?

The reason I ask is that the i9-9900KS is supported on other Alienware models.

The AWCC software for those other models contains the AWCC profiles for the i9-9900KS.

I thought it might be as simple as renaming the profile for Area51m and including it in the profiles.zip that AWCC reads to setup the OC controls for CPU, however no luck.

So I am thinking there are referrals in the .json files to the other model and maybe that’s why it’s not working, just a wild guess.

Has anyone around here with a history of Alienware shenanigans been able to get / use not officially supported CPU’s to show up in AWCC ?

I know it’s junk and I would not even care if I didn’t need it for Fans.

Just a side project, if anyone has any experience in something like this?

Edit: ok I got of the lazy train and looked it up and looks like .json files are pretty human readable, does not look all that much harder than making websites in notepad.

I’ll take a better look when I get time.




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I would recommend the system +20 (yes 2x10)!!!

There is nothing like it!

If you stick to stock with the latest bios/vbiso you should be relatively fine (on performance fan mode).
If you want full overclocking potential then go full desktop mode and watercool the hell out of it. Then you GPU can reach over 2000Mhz constant and your CPU constant 5.3Ghz.

But this is not a "full" desktop! The fact they managed to put a full RTX 2080 and an i9 9900k inside a LAPTOP CHASSIS and get it working at recommended stock speeds - WITHOUT PROBLEMS (on latest BIOS & VBIOS) is truly spectacular and they are the fist to do it! Later Asus & MSI (but we know how those turned out).

However, if you want to overclock and push the system above what is stock, then you need to tweak it. (Reverting to older bioses that remove functionality like G-SYNC is not the way to go IMO).

In any case, leaving any frustration apart some people might experience, it's an awesome machine! Hats down!

Cheers,
Helifax

 

Ultimately the value of this system comes down to convenience. It's more convenient (and saves more space) to carry a machine that has its keyboard and screen built right in to it and manages to match desktops in spec and performance. The alternative for those of us who need a mobile computer and enjoy playing games in their downtime would be an mATX or NUC or something, both of which come at the cost of needing to carry around a portable monitor, a keyboard, and a much heavier and more fragile machine (or in the case of a NUC, woefully incapable hardware). So regardless, for me, the A51m is still a great machine for what it is... I just wish it was made by a more reputable brand. (I am aware of the Clevo, ASUS, etc; none of them look as good nor come close to the price to performance of an A51m. The ASUS Mothership is cool as hell but lol $6000 baseline.)

 

Yeah, the NUCs are great! And they have their applications! I have a few of those in a "farm" for "other tasks".
But having a truly "laptop" form desktop to carry around (hell it is thinner and lighter than my previous Alienware laptop with 5x the performance) and being to literally do anything on it (from codding to video encoding to playing Control & Metro Exodus with RTX ON even at 1440p above 60FPS or even plug it into a 4K monitor and get almost 60FPS) This is a dream come true for me and I am sure for others as well!
Sure, it's not perfect! Nothing in tech is! There are always "gotchas".

But even with them, I am still really impressed!

 

Is the fan/heat sink differ from a 2080 setup?

 

Not here for a war friend, just pointing out that Apple is no better at build quality or ethics than the rest.

I'll move on. Cheers.

 

I have both an area51m that i gave to my father and a asus g703gxr
i find them to be basically the same

The asus g703gxr has the same internals as the mothership but in a more "normal" form

 

I am amazed at the amount of negative posts against this laptop. I totally am amazed and enjoy mine. It has totally replaced my tower with 1080Ti which runs with 4 radiators, two pumps, OC'd daily @4.6ghz for the last several years. Yes, my desktop build is long in the tooth and the last breath of life I added to it was a 1080Ti, and that was an awesome update and my tower after all these years is still a very viable machine with this 3930k CPU and Rampage IV mobo, but my A51 with 9700K/2080 just blows it out of the water in every respect.

And although, there is somewhat of a learning curve with the A51 (if you are benching), this is so true for any platform in my experience, and especially from those vendors that encourage their customers to push the limits.

AlienWare has always been building the types of rigs that those who cannot build their own this way but wish they could. I have always, and still do, salute AlienWare for doing this.

That said, I had vowed when AW first came out that I would never buy an AW rig since I already knew how to build my own, better and cheaper. But we are talking desktop systems back then.

I am impressed with this A51.

 

Two x two in a row. 580M burned up in the Alienwares Same for 675M. I'm sure you'll find many more. Bro @Mr. Fox can most likely confirm this.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-14-or-m17xr4.750970/page-2#post-9634806

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...discussion-thread.629369/page-11#post-8170776

Not sure how much you have used Liquid metal. But I don't see this. I used Liquid metal near 4 years on my previous AW17 without need to re-apply. And neither a problem in my other machines.

Not many Heatsink that can get rid of +400W heat.

If you have the paid version, it contain stress tests.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/download-aws.futuremark.com/3dmark-technical-guide.pdf

TECHNICAL DETAILS
The aim of stress testing is to place a high load on the system for an extended period of time to expose any problems with stability or cooling capability. 3DMark Stress Tests work by looping a benchmark graphics test continuously without pausing for loading screens or other breaks. A Stress Test takes around 20 minutes to run when set to the default 20 loops, which is usually enough to find any significant stability or cooling issues.

 

absolutely, and i also recall the amd HD7970m also burning up on occasion, includes the m290 and m295 etc

 

The ram is a minor issue for me, but the G-sync... why does it stop working on some screens but not all?

 

Well I tried my best with my probably naïve attempt to get AWCC to see the i9-9000KS ( don't ask me why I claim temporary insanity, I use Throttlestop so I don't need it to work I was just curios ) .

The only thing I really accomplished by editing the .json files ( copied the KS values into the K file ) was to completely hose AWCC :/

Oh well it was time to delete and reinstall AWCC anyway it was acting a little flakey before I started. It's working better then before now, and updated to ThrottleStop 8.74.

Back on BIOS 1.5.0 and 180w VBIOS and all is well with the Area51m again, Time to play some games and stop obsessing over details

The Chi Mei screen which I have was added to the build AFTER BIOS 1.5.0 was released so it's ID is not in the list of Gsync compatible displays that is built into the BIOS, Honestly it's a non issue - I notice no difference between having Gsync and not having it. I believe several of the folks here have said it's because of the 144hrz refresh rate, it's fast enough that you really don't see much difference if any.

 

Hello guys, is it possible to buy this laptop with 9900KS and 2070 not 2080? I only need the speed of 2070. I didn't see this option from Hidevolution only 9700 with 2070. Any ideas?

Also does 9900K/S with 2070 still have throttling problems? Or is this only with the 2080 version?

Also people are saying you can buy 90W version or 110(?) desktop or the maxq version of the gfx card. I never seen that option. Can you specify that?

Thanks in advance

 

Talk with Donald at HIDevolution and ask him if he has i9-9900KS available right now.
you will have no issues with RTX 2070 that I have heard of, as for the RTX card you get what Dell / Alienware offers as far as I know it's the same as a Desktop RTX only mounted on special Dell /Alienware card to fit into the Area51m, I am not aware of any wattage version choices for them for Area51m.

Sorry if some of that is my fault, I really do like the Area51m it's great for what it is, I am really just more disappointed with Alienware / Dell, it's SO CLOSE to being the dream machine I just get frustrated with them for not spending a few more dollars and a little more time to finish it. I think it was rushed a little, but it's still a great machine.

 

Thanks a lot if you check their website, for 2070, they don't offer 9900K/S, only 9700, not sure why this is but I would rather put the difference in money to other components like RAM.

Would this have to be a custom order through email? Seems strange to me they dont offer it on the website.

 

Donald is awesome and he will work with you I spoke with him on the phone as well as in email, I am pretty sure if they have it they will build it for you whether it's one of their listed builds or not. They did a great job for me and I can recommend them.

 

So it’s only the Chi Mei screens that lose G-sync on lower FW?

What’s the best BIOS and VBIOS to be on except for 1.5.0 and 1.0.0.3, throttle-wise?

 

Hello everyone, this has probably been asked already, but is it a stupid idea to buy an area 51m i9 9900k/RTX2080 but with minimum RAM and Storage so that I can buy my own and change them when it arrives?
I was planning on buying 2x16GB DDR4 such as these and 2x500GB evo 970 (I would prefer not to have them in RAID0) and add a 2TB Firecuda SSHD that I already own later, the price difference from dell would be substantial.
Thanks in advance

 

Only the Chi Mei. If you have the LG or AUO, you can use any BIOS and continue to use G-sync. External monitors are not affected either. Personally using 1.5.0 and 1.0.0.3 (200W) without issue.

Not at all. I did this myself and saved about $1000 compared to what Dell wanted new. Not an issue if you don't want RAID 0, but the NVMe slots are capped out at a combined PCIe x4, so if you do go to RAID in the future, you won't see any improvements.
You may want to hold off on buying any new RAM until there's some solid information on what's happening with RAM speeds greater than 2400MHz. Should have news on this in the coming week or two.

 

Order with the two cheapest M2 so that you get two original heatsinks.

I’m hoping to not get a Chi Mei then.

 

It seems that all new builds (in the last 6 months) have only Chi Mei displays. I might be mistaken but I've never seen anyone reporting other displays in the past months.

As for G-SYNC. It seems there is a bit of confusion on how to hardware and tech works. G-SYNC is not VSYNC or adaptive VSYNC or the others.
https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/vsync-gsync-freesync-explained/

In a standard VSYNC way:
- Your GPU will work as fast as it can headless from the display.
- Your display would refresh constantly at xHZ (without knowing if the GPU had time to render a frame before the previous refresh).

In G-SYNC:
- Both the display and GPU are in sync. The GPU will not render a new frame if the display doesn't have time to present it. The Display will still refresh if the GPU hasn't presented a frame, but will repeat the last frame it has received from the GPU.

As a result you get no micro-stuttering and frame pacing oddities which gives you a "butter smooth" experience no matter if you run at 40FPS or 120FPS ( the smoothness is the same).
The best benefit of G-SYNC is when you can't maintain a stable FPS, which is what 99% happens in games when you stress the GPU (Your game renders anywhere between 45-65 FPS based on what is drawn on the screen). In standard VSYNC you run into stutters here. In GSYNC you experience zero stutters.

The best demo for this is Nvidia G-SYNC pendulum demo and enabling the "Test Pattern" option. It can be clearly seen there the diff between no VSYNC, VSYNC and G-SYNC.
https://www.nvidia.co.uk/coolstuff/demos#!/g-sync

I think G-SYNC (and AMD's Freesync variant) are the best things that happen to the Display/GPU synchronization modes since forever

Cheers,
Helifax

 

Yeah I can say that after I experienced gsync it has been hard to use any type of display that doesn't have it.

On a related note, I'm not sure if it's just an nvidia driver problem, a windows problem, or a Dell problem but I've got weird issues with gsync on 1.8.1 too. Namely, after I reinstall my graphics driver, windowed gsync mode works perfectly on both my Predator X34P and the A51m's screen (according to gsync indicator HUD and the nvidia pendulum demo).

But after restarting the pc, functionality is removed entirely from the a51m's screen as long as my X34P is plugged in and windowed mode ceases to function on the X34P. Gsync still works properly in full screen mode, but it's annoying to have to hit alt+enter all the time to exit full screen mode before alt tabbing (I use my pc in a way that has me alt tabbing a lot).

Anyway just a really annoying, specialized bug somewhere and there's so many points of failure that I can't be bothered to even try to find the problem. I'm guessing whatever it is happens when Windows assigns the 2080 as a device after restarting with the fresh driver package. Idk.

 

This is a long known bug in the Nvidia Driver / Windows Integration.
Basically, you say that after a restart, G-SYNC works in exclusive fullscreen but not in window & borderless fullscreen?

If this is the case, open Task Manager, find dwm.exe process (Desktop Window Manager) and kill it. Don't worry it will end the process and Windows will spawn a new one.
Voila, Gsync works in window mode again.

Hope it helps,

 

Holy crap thanks dude it worked lmao

 

Yes I've read about it, I'll buy the pc in march probably, I hope it's solved by then

Thanks I hadn't thought of that

 

it won't even be 5%, to get that you have to get all the way up into the 2933+ range. 2400->2666 might yield about 1.5% if that. Unless the game really depends on memory, it literally makes no difference. I get wanting it, it says it clearly on the box my A51M came in, but its the least of the worries for an A51M owner in my opinion.

 

Not sure it matters to you, but the Chi Mei panel looks according to most people better than the other two panels. Not saying thats a justification for not maintaining Gsync, but its something. Also, AFAIK, any panel currently listed as Gsync for Area 51M orders is using the Chi Mei.

 

Yes I really like mine especially once it’s calibrated it’s a very nice panel.


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Good point - calibration is a must these days for everything it seems, I use a trusty Spyder5 Pro personally.

 

I’m in Europe. Panels may differ from place to place. Or not. We’ll see. ;-)

Either way is ok, but I rather have 1.5.0 with G-sync.

 

I'm from the UK, I have the Chi Mei panel. I think its the only one that has the integrated eyesafe technology built in that Dell promotes.

 

I know, we’re in agreement there. Not tempted to go beyond 1.5.0 for +266 MHz.

 

Been a while since I last popped in here. My March A51m still running good. Heard from someone that they were able to adjust temp limits in AWCC on newer BIOS?

That aside, the lack of the 9900KS upgrade has been disappointing... but at least mines delidded. Anyone with a copper IHS know if there are any issues? I am seriously considering it. Other than that, this system's heat managment hasn't failed me yet, but isn't as robust as the old P870DM-G.

On a side note, would the lack of 2666MHz RAM be considered false advertisement at this point?

Edit: so a bit of info for those of you who use Logitech Game Hub software and having the touchpad disables after install - disable the virtual mouse in device manager from logitech. This will fix that issue while still retaining software functionality.




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