Apple in-ear vs Bose in-ear

No, you're completely right.
I didn't stop to think before typing and now I look like a numpty. Yay for me!

No it's not ignorant.
Quite aside from the limits to the frequency ranges that ANC headphones are designed to cope with, the likes of Bose noise-cancelling headphones do not provide the same level of isolation as a well-fitted pair of IEMs.

Even within the frequency ranges they are designed to cancel out, they are out-performed by far cheaper IEMs which will also isolate against frequencies that ANC headphones cannot, therefore the likes of the Bose ANC headphones are inferior, the effect they produce is inferior.

I'm not talking about the technology as a whole but within the scope of consumer headphones, the ANC options on the market do not match decent IEMs when it comes to isolation, they are simply not as good.
Add to that the fact that for the same price as the likes of the Bose ANC headphones, you can get a very decent pair of IEMs with multiple drivers that simply sound better and I stand by my statement that ANC headphones are a poorer solution.


If you desperately want ANC, get yourself a DAP that offers it, that way you can use it with a better pair of headphones.

 

I've tried Grado, Sennheiser, Shure, Audio Technica, and Eytomic.

My Bose On Ear's sound better than all of their sub-$200 offerings. particularly with my pocket amp.

but like most things, it depends on the type of music you listen to and at what quality. with my Fiio amp and listening to FLAC off my computer, my On Ear's sound like magic.

bottom line: haters gonna hate.



yes, some of Bose's products are more marketing than substance...and depending on the genres of music you listen to, you may be better served with a product from Grado or someone...especially guitar-heavy stuff...but for my music at the pricepoint I paid, On Ears are some of the best out there. And considering they are closed cans and that I can travel with them because they don't look like studio cans...just a bonus.

between the 2 in the OP...Bose hands down. if he can purchase something else of the in-ear type, I'd recommend something else, though. My Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10vi's are really good...and I got them from Amazon for $50 at the time. Not sure how much they're going for now. Also, my Shure E2c's sound pretty good. I also know the Eytomic ER6i's and ER4P's are very good.

 

Well, for the majority of people, I have no doubt that ANC will indeed be beaten in pretty much every respect by isolation.

I couldn't find good data on the effectiveness of high-end noise cancelling products, so I guess I can't say whether high-end ANC could provide more than the ~40dB you can get from a pair of Etymotics. I will agree that isolating earbuds will pretty much always have better sound quality than ANC headphones, as well.

However, that doesn't make ANC useless. I can present a few situations where it would be useful:
1) If earbuds are not an option, e.g. for medical reasons.
2) A situation where you would want to block out only a certain range of noises; e.g. you want to block out low-frequency noise but still be able to notice someone saying something to you.
3) If an unprecedented level of noise protection was required, you could combine isolating earbuds with ANC earmuffs, or something of the sort.

 

Exactly. I wouldn't ever buy one of their Lifestyle home theater systems, because they use horrible speaker cones (paper ) on an $1800 system. But their headphones and car systems are generally worth the money, and much better than the shoddy OEM systems or the "walmart sony headphones" *IMO*. Sony makes some of the best headphones made, but they sure don't sell them at walmart of BB and you can't get them for under $200, and the same goes for pretty much any other good brand. The triports are also the most *comfortable* headphones I've ever worn, and that goes a LONG way for me, as I wear them for hours at a time for movie watching on long flights.

 

One of the more detailed comparisons that I found was this one.
Certainly the Bose headphones perform pretty well but they were well beaten both the pairs of Shure IEMs that were tested, including the E2Cs, which towards the end of their life-cycle were available for as little as $25.

The only downside is that it's a fairly old test - the two pairs of Shure IEMs are both discontinued, as have the Bose headphones I believe.
Still, it's one of the better comparisons, testing 2 pairs of each of the different headphones in 10 people's pairs of ears 3 times each and averaging the results. And even in the lower frequencies tested, the Shures out-performed the Bose headphones which did, in turn, out-perform everything else.

Like any technology, it has it's place.
But whilst I won't argue that ANC can be useful, I would contest that Bose's ANC headphones are not of a standard that they will ever be a preferable solution - save possibly for people who fall under situation number 1. However, even then, they would be strongly advised to look around and at other cans that offer isolation and see if there's anything else on the market that would be better suited for them.



Apologies fore my previous facepalm-inducingly stupid comment.
Also, I should've been a little clearer with my use of the word 'inferior'.

 

While we're apologising, I'm sorry that I called you "ignorant" when I was the one who was (I couldn't find data to prove ANC could potentially be more effective at low frequency, after all).

I was trying to find more data on higher-end ANC; I didn't find any more studies, but I found a product that claims to offer 50dB noise reduction - the Telex Stratus 50 Digital. I can't judge the veracity of this claim, though.

I still think that ANC has the potential to offer significantly more reduction than isolation technologies, at least for predictable sounds; if the Stratus 50 is as good as they claim that's one example, at least. However, this would be a significant engineering challenge, and would increase the cost as well as making it harder to produce good sound quality.

It seems that Bose's products are definitely inferior to good isolating IEMs past the $100 mark in both isolation and sound quality. I was trying to find data on the Aviation Headset X, but I couldn't; the fact that Bose doesn't publish such data is suspicions, honestly.

Well, closed circumaural headphones would probably provide enough isolation for most people, but they wouldn't be as good in this regard as IEMs. The Sennheiser HD 280 Pro claim 32dB of passive reduction; I guess that would still be better than most ANC cans.

 

Inferior is a bad choice of words since the interpretation of sound quality is for the most part subjective. Additionally, Bose is a dedicated speaker company that has been around for a very long time. You should also understand that Bose is essentially a consumer based company and really shouldn't be compared to Sennheiser or Shure which are predominately manufacturers of professional sound equipment

Easily the greatest mistake of all since any company's published data can be manipulated to their benefit. In addition, it is perfectly possible to have high numbers and still produce crappy sound.

As I've been trying to say, the numbers are just a starting point. The only way to be sure of the quality of the speakers/headphones etc. you like is to use the type of music you like and listen for yourself.

As for the superiority inherent with different designed ear pieces, again that depends on the user and how they interpret comfort. For me and many other people the feel of having a plug in your ears just isn't worth it. I'd much rather have an over the ear type headphones. Although either way there are compromises.

 

But they position themselves in that segment of the market in thier advertising. They get musicians and audio professinals to winge on in their ads about how Bose has the best sound quality available. There's no disclaimer that pops up on screen and says, "only in comparison to other consumer grade equipment." Add to that that they price themsevles in to the market such that they compete directly against products from companies that are, "predominately manufactures of professional sound equipment," and your argument loses all validity. The willingly and knowingly compete directly against high end audiophile/professional sound equipment, not $50 Aiwa boom boxes. In that arena, they simply do not hold up.

 

If there is any manufacturer around that would taut their product as being the best I wouldn't think much of them. Would you?

In any event, I'm not defending Bose specifically since I don't currently own any Bose product (although i have in the past). So as far as I'm concerned, a lot of what you're saying has merit. However, it's just one side of the story; mine is the other. And in that, they do as well as any other speaker manufacturer in their range. Just don't compare a Lexus to a Toyota and say the Toyota is inferior. They are two totally different cars for two totally different markets. As long as you compare apples to apples, we can come to a consensus.

 

What, so sound equipment shouldn't be compared to professional sound equipment at similar or cheaper prices? Who cares if it's a "consumer based company" or not when its products serve the same purposes?

I wasn't talking about sound quality; I was trying to find out the product's effectiveness at blocking noise since it's a high-end ANC product at $1000 - and yet Bose doesn't provide any numbers on its level of noise reduction.

The discussion was mostly about noise reduction, which is definitely not subjective.

As for quality, sure, there's a lot of subjectivity there, but even though some might like the sound, that doesn't solve the issue of how expensive they are.

 

If that were true, why would there be separate divisions?

Since the ultimate goal IS the sound, you can't have one discussion without ultimately discussing the other. In fact, that was the point of my whole argument in the first place. After all, we're not just talking about ear plugs are we?

No? Define noise. I'm not trying to be difficult, but we do a disservice by just saying something is inferior without first defining the parameters of why you believe that.

 

I don't understand what you're getting at with "divisions".

Simple; noise is anything that didn't originate from the headphones. The comparison was between isolating earbuds and ANC cans, and all the data I've seen shows that isolating earbuds do a better job of reducing outside noise.

 

This idea that there are distinct grades of professional and consumer audio equipment and that a company falls into one category or the other doesn't really tie in with reality.

Of course companies such as Shure, Sennheiser etc produce equipment for professional purposes but they also produce consumer equipment, products specifically designed to meet the needs of normal people.
The fact that they take the expertise they have gained from the production of professional equipment and utilise that in their consumer ranges is neither here not there.

The Shure headphones that were featured in the comparison were consumer headphones - and lower-end ones at that ( there were E4s and E5s above them in the product range of the time).



As for sound quality, of course it's a subjective matter but, once again, if you read comparisons of Bose's headphones against almost any other headphones, they very rarely favour Bose.

 

Alright.

Well, I bought the Apple In-ear headphones. Decision was made a whole heck of a lot easier when I read on the Bose package "these are not noise-isolating" or something to that extent. The more I thought about it, the more the fact that they were earphones that didn't go in your ears...just kind of seemed stupid. The fact Bose includes about 19 different attachments to keep them from falling off your body said a lot. Anyway. Back to the Apple....

These are pretty great actually, I am very happy. The bass is powerful but tight, which is pretty hard to find. It's usually just a huge rumble with no direction. This is punchy but pointed, if that makes any sense. My test song is "Fast Cars" by Craig David. It's getting old now but it has a decent bass line and the initial shattering glass is a decent test on how clear it is. The Mark Levinson system in the Lexus SC430 is my personal benchmark...these little in-ears can't really rival that, but there are similar hints to how those performed. I love in "Get Low" how you can hear the following bass hits, the echos if you will of the bass, not just the initial hit. Thought these suckers didn't have any bass....lolz

My initial impression on the noise-isolation is pretty good, if not great. But I'll know more in the following days.

My point is, people were laughing off these headphones as if to say stick with the ones that came with the iPhone...give your points away to a homeless guy and see if he can break a glass bottle on your head...all will sound better. Well, glad I didn't listen to any of you...haha. One holmes actually said my old Sony's would sound better...ahh man.

No really...the bass is nice and punchy and hits pretty hard...almost wish it hit harder but it would probably lose some of it's tightness. Very comfortable...good noise isolation.

If you can get a good deal on them, especially if you have an iPhone, I would definitely recommend them.

On any account, thanks for all the help and suggestions...it was highly appreciated.

 

Well, I'm glad you like what you got, as that is the ultimate point of this thread.

 

sennheisers and/or shures ftw.

 

QFT, plus, he is getting them at a discounted price/for free, can't complain about that.

Reading the first post FTW!

 

First post? Try the title.

 

That too, I guess he skipped reading anything altogether.

 

I am happy for the guy that likes his headphones. I just wanted to mention a some findings I have had since I own some top of the line audio equipment. There is a huge difference between sound quality and accurate reproduction and how much you like your earphones. Bass and loudness sell audio products well so if you put on a headphone and hear loud bass, you instantly think it is a good product. If you don't believe me try to find a headphone test station at a best buy or something and listen to the sample audio tracks, they are always loud and bassy.

The people arguing about Bose vs other companies both have good points and are both too thick-headed to understand the difference in the argument. Bose makes audio products which sound good to most average joes simply because they do not care as much about audio quality and just want something loud and pretty to look at. Bose markets their products as luxury items, so that when you tell your friends you got a Bose system they go OOOooh. Tell them you got Bowers and Wilkins and you get blank stares even though the B&W will smack Bose around any day. The same thing happens in a lot of situations. Many people hate how a calibrated HDTV looks because it looks "off" to them compared to what they are used to.

To sum up, most people can't tell the difference between $50 dollar audio equipment and $500 dollar audio equipment. My gf can't hear the difference between the Sennheiser px100(Paid $35 retail 60) I bought her and my Shure se530(Paid $275ish retail 500). I sure can and love the se530 and when I step down to the se110 for when I go to the gym I can hear a stark difference.

 

Thanks guys!

 

Agreed

I brought UE700 for £139 from Amazon but my GF/Friends think I'm crazy.

 

Well, you were good up until this point. Just so there's no misunderstanding or confusion, that would be like saying a Bentley can smack a Toyota around, when the fact is, they are two different cars for two entirely different markets.

Bose is more mainstream, while B&W (coincidentally my favorite speaker manufacturer, thank you) produce esoteric audiophile quality sound systems. And, likewise to the car analogy, at a considerable price premium my I add.

Most likely she can tell the difference, it's just that it's just not as significant to her, as it is to you. Incidentally, women do tend to have better hearing than men.

 

Actually no she can't tell the difference since I asked and she said no she can't, they sound the same to her, incidentally her hearing is better than mine at high frequencies and the annoy-a-teen app works wonders on her while I can't hear anything.

People and by people I mean the average people who don't really know audio consider Bose to be that Bentley as if there is nothing better. A B&W 5.1 channel system with costs 1250 for the basic mt-10 and 1500 for the mt-20. Bose costs 1700 for the basic and 1800 for the step up. So I would argue that no B&W is no less mainstream priced than Bose, except B&W makes an amazing system while Bose uses the crappiest components they can to scrape by. There is a great article I read which shows how bad Bose really is.

Link to Article

 

Exactly. Bose chooses to price themselves in to and above the entry level audiophile equipment, therefore they are BY DEFINITION competing with them. Therefore there is every reason to compare directly.

 

Ok guys I found two interesting products, think the sony earplugs are worth the 20€ extra?

SENNHEISER CX300 II (40€
http://www.vandenborre.be/WEB/NL/Ho...age77.vdb?Detail=MmqaLmqaTuqaMidoieKmMe9mKy9k

SONY MDR-AS50G (60€
http://www.vandenborre.be/WEB/NL/Ho...age77.vdb?Detail=MmqaLmqaTuqaMidoieqmSqtnR69k

 

cx 300 ii sells for £20 on amazon uk. it's okay for the price, but 40 euro is ridiculus.
if you want a sony, try the MDR EX85LPB/EX90LP
i had the ex85, it came with a walkman player i bought, sound was pretty good. i would not pay more than 40 euros for it though.

 

You're right, maybe the average joe can hear the difference between the systems but very few people understand the differences in sound quality enough to care either way. A good example of 2 people interpreting sound quality differently would be my father and I. I like to hear accurate reproduction but it's not the end-all be-all of my life, so I'm fine using the earbuds that my dell came with and using 10 year old logitech computer speakers when I have it on my desk, and I don't mind the fact that when I use my living room stereo, I'm pumping MP3s off of my ipod through an ancient receiver and crappy speaker cables to old paradigm speakers that still sound great to me. It's not that I can't tell that a more expensive setup would sound better, it's just that the marginal cost of upgrading is much greater for me than for other people like my father. I value the extra dollar that I'd put into the sound system much more than the resultant increase in quality.

My dad, on the other hand, literally defines the term audiophile. He's been a recording engineer and salesman for super high end audio manufacturers for 30 years. His home system probably costs more than the average home price here in Miami (for anyone that knows these things, he's using Wilson Alexandrias as his front channel and Sophias as his rear channel, with transparent opus speaker cables... as for the amps and the rest of it, it's constantly changing as he reviews new products but it's all amazing stuff), and he claims he can clearly hear a difference between a $4,000 dollar speaker cable and a $6,000 dollar cable. Can he? Maybe, I certainly can't, but his audio scope of reference and depth is so far beyond mine that perhaps he really has trained his ears to discern the subtle variation created by coiling copper a slightly different way. He'd rather die than use MP3 quality sound to demonstrate his system, and most of the CDs he uses to show it off are recorded and produced himself, so there's no weak link in the chain from original music to living room recreation. It's flawless.

When I hear all that effort and money in action, I keep thinking the same thing to myself... "Man, if I had enough money to afford this stuff, I'd definitely get myself a Ferrar!" Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

Well i'm limited to twose two or worse products so...
I wouldn't mind paying 20€ extra for the sony earplugs if they would offer me superb sound quality with good bass, witouth anoying other people on the bus.

 

Hi-FI man RE-0 and RE-2, both are great and better then Apple and BOSE crap.

 

just saying the two phones you listed are over priced. here http://www.amazon.de/Sennheiser-300...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1267994933&sr=8-1
i'm sure you can find them cheaper.
if you want to spend about 60 euros, there are much better options.
like this http://www.amazon.de/Ultimate-Ears-...=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1267995073&sr=1-7

ps, i don't if amazon.de ship there, just used it to check prices.

 

something grado in-ear headphones would be nice for example: GR8 (lol)

 

I don't work with online stores like amazone because I prefer face to face service (which is becomming very rare with al those big multimedia companies competing to offer the lowest prices, while saving money by hiring ignorent teenager staff).
The high prices are normal here in Belgium, we have 21% taxes so I can live with it.

While you've given me 2 other options, I have no use to them because i'm stuck to the 2 other options which I named before, and now I still don't know the answer to my question

 

then go for the sennheisers, you have to pay a 100% premium though.

 

I ordered them and should recieve them within 2-3 weeks, il post a lil review here once i've tested them.