Do Normally Priced Wireless Mouses All Lag?

My (wired) notebook mouse is malfunctioning and I'm thinking about switching to a wireless. I tested one (Lenovo branded, don't know which model) and the lag is noticeable. I sometimes play action-intense games (FPS, RCG, etc) on my notebook, so a laggy mouse is unbearable.

Some say wireless mouses, except high-end gaming-oriented models, are configured to be laggy in order to save power. Is that true?

Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced wireless mouse that doesn't lag? I don't have a solid upper limit for the cost, but I don't feel like burning money on fancy gaming models.

 

Logitech uses the same very high quality wireless chipset in all of their wireless mice. Most other wireless mice, branded or generic, use very cheap components that often don't work well.

 

I've been using logitech mk250 (mouse + keyboard) and logitech m305 mouse for a bit longer than a year now. I didn't notice any lag on mice while playing, league of legends, starcraft2, d2, wow and few cod's. When receiver was blocked by metal and at a 1-2m away (ie. table frame/entire desktop case) keyboard lagged a bit. Mice worked perfectly regardless of where i used them.

There is no way i'll ever switch back to anything wired anytime soon.

 

Thanks for the replies. I'll check Logitech models.

Do Logitech mouses store the DPI setting in its own storage? I've seen something complains about mouses booting up with wrong DPI. Because I need to use this device under Linux/*BSD I need something that works fine without a non-standard driver. (Unless they have a UNIX driver, which is impossible. Reverse engineering drivers isn't anywhere near fun.)

Checked their website and found something strange: when I check "Linux compatible" only this one pops up. But what exactly do they mean "Linux compatible" when it comes with no DPI adjustment, and only 3 buttons + 1 wheel? So the rest don't follow USB HID Spec? (According to some posts, some Logitech devices do work just fine, and even unifying receiver works.)

 

Well my m305 dosent have any buttons to switch dpi so it always boots to same setting. I usually just tweak it depending on monitor i work with.

And about compatibility I know that next few statements are not linux enviroment but u'll get the picture:
mk250 set worked right off the bat within UEFI bioses of various systems i built for my family and friends (i can confirm that it worked 100% in asrock p67, some asus b75, some msi h61 and few others). So i really do not see that you would have any issues using linux with any of the "basic" mice and keyboards Logitech provides. Tested few moments ago and this m305 can operate within 8530p uefi bios. So i guess they do follow USB HID Spec.

I believe 100% that every mouse will work within linux, but corresponding Logitech software might not. Problems you could have using various mice under linux could be that due to lack of software you would note be able to utilize all of the buttons and would have to program them on your own. But buttons 1-3 and scroll should work without issues.

If you want you can give me a link to a windows like linux distro and i could download, check how my mice work under linux then report back to you.

 

I have a G400 which, to my knowledge, does not have onboard memory. The DPI setting is stored on my PC, so there is a period of about a second or two where the DPI is reset to the default before the software boots up and the DPI setting is restored. That shouldn't be an issue for a mouse where the DPI isn't adjustable.

More than likely the reason why the other mice aren't labeled as supporting Linux is that they haven't been extensively tested. They probably work fine, but if you run into issues and you try to contact Logitech for support they might just tell you that they can't offer support under Linux.

 

I was under the impression that even the 'best' wireless mice still have noticeable lag in addition to poor sensing of small movements. Having said that most of the gaming oriented wireless mice have the option to connect via USB which more or less gets rid of that problem. I suppose you could game via a wired connection, then switch to wireless mode when you want to chill or lounge around. Personally I use wired mice (G9x and G500) but I have been eyeing up a G700 for some time.

 

Not really, it depends on the polling rate. Generally this means "gaming" mice like the Razer Mamba and the Logitech G700. You don't need to connect one of those via USB in order to have lagfree gaming.

 

@darkydark

That's very good news.

I'm really thankful for your offer to test the device under Linux. If it works fine with the BIOSes you've tested, I'm highly confident that it will work with whatever OS I use. So I won't ask anyone to go through the hassle of downloading and running another OS just to test it.

If you'd like to give one Linux Distribution a spin, Ubuntu seems to be the most common suggestion. Ubuntu Mini Remix offers ~200MB tiny images for fast downloading. Ubuntu Images can boot from USB/CD/DVD into a working environment like Windows PE.


@hockeymass

Thanks for the reply. Before the Windows driver kicks in and changes DPI, does it have a very low DPI setting, or a reasonable setting?

 

I had the mx518 for 4+ yrs and it did extremely well but after it crapped out I did some extensive research and ended up going w the g700 and I can't say i'm dissapointed. It has more than enough profiles / Multiple dpi settings (from 200 to 5000+ dpi)/ settings stored on the mouse as well as the keyboard / and adjustable polling rate for performance or battery life. 1000 mhz polling makes for a lag-free lightning fast experience. all of this plus a low profile usb receiver makes for a perfect laptop mouse and a convenient switchable one if you wish to go from desktop to on-the-go laptop one.

 

Polling rate is only half the story. When people complain about laggy wireless mice, it has almost nothing to do with the polling rate.

 

Enlighten us, then, el capitan.

 

I've been using a G700 for a while now and I've not experienced any lag. And I much prefer using it wireless versus having the cord attached.

Of course that might be out of your price range.

But I have used other logitech wireless mice in the past and not had any issues. I also used to use a wireless trackball and like it very much.

 

Well i've personally have had no lag and accurate and precise controls both in fps, rpg, and mmos.
From what i've read, and i'm no mouse expert, it's a mix of polling rate and dpi.

-Polling as results in the amount of times it refreshed between the device & the receiver

-DPI which adjusts the sensitivity of the mouse. higher dpi = moves faster but harder to close in on details, lower dpi = easier to pin point because of slower movement but need longer strokes to move over larger areas.

The laser technology included in the G700 is really good, it works on everything except glass from what i've read. Logitech releases mice with darkfield which allows you to use it over glass, but I can't vouch for those.

 

It was past my bedtime so I didn't have time. The polling rate just means that the mouse reads the sensor movement and sends out that data X times every second. The higher, the better, because the mouse's velocity is likely to change between readings. However, this says absolutely nothing about how long it takes the signal from the mouse to reach the OS, or if all of the data reaches the OS.

Wireless mice, like pretty much every other single consumer wireless device, all use the 2.4Ghz band. If you live in a city, you can be sure there is some interference making your mouse's job harder. Also there is a delay from converting, sending, and receiving, and error-correcting the wireless data. A lot of this relies on the wireless chipsets used in the mice. They will never be lag or trouble free, but some are definitely better than others. For example, all Logitech wireless mice use a very very good wireless chipset, but that doesn't mean that you can't have problems or lag with it, just that it will be less prone to problems and have less lag due to the wireless than maybe another mouse would have.

There is another part of wireless mouse lag, and that is the mouse entering and exiting power-saving modes. Again, some do it way better than others. On Logitech mice, I have noticed it, but rarely. On some generic mice, it was so annoying that I couldn't use the mouse.

This all adds milliseconds of delay, from a few to a lot, it depends, but it will always have more lag than a wired mouse. However, some people are perfectly happy gaming with their Razer Orochis on wireless mode, so to each their own.

 

Forget to test this when playing with the Lenovo device, so just to be sure: when I leave a wireless mouse static long enough and it goes to sleep automatically, does it shut down the sensor completely or work at a much lower rate? (Qing Dao's post seems to imply the later.) Do I need to touch some switch to wake it up when I come back? If it works at a much lower rate, does that mean when I put the device into a bag and move it around, it will never go to sleep due to the movement?

 

A USB connection also introduces some inherent latency. But- Qing Dao is right. The issue with bad wireless mice (including all BT mice afaik) is that the latency of the connection is too high. A very high end wireless mouse like the G700 shouldn't introduce any more latency than a standard USB connection.

 

FWIW there seems to be matching of the exact 2.4Ghz frequency that each USB dongle works at with each (most? many?) wireless mouse.

e.g. a few months ago I got a Microsoft 4000 wireless mouse; the ugly black and white one was cheapest on Amazon at something under $20 so I got that. It works OK, and equally important it's somewhat larger size fits my hand size OK. So I got a 2nd one (an all black one, for a few bucks more) thinking that I've have two identical USB dongles that I'd leave plugged into my two laptops and therefore be able to not futz around with a specific dongle for a specific mouse.

I then discovered that the USB dongle is specific to each mouse!

Well the two big mice sellers are Logitech and Microsoft, and that goes way back to the early PC days of the 1980's.

Are you really suggesting that Logitech's wireless mice have somewhat less of a lag problem than Microsoft's wireless mice, due a better chipset??? That seems a stretch to me.

Interesting comments. Thank you.

BTW, have you got a suggestion of a really good wireless Logitech mouse (up to $50 USA), sized roughly same as the Microsoft 4000, that will perform better than the Microsoft 4000 wireless mouse? Thanks in advance.

 

It doesn't shut down completely because it still needs to detect movement to turn it back on fully. If you just carry it around in your backpack and the sensor detects movement, it isn't going to spend much time in a low power sleep state. But most wireless mice have a button or switch on the bottom to power it off completely when not in use.

Whether a G700 is on wired mode used a cable from the mouse to the USB port, or wireless mode with the dongle plugged into the USB port, it is still communicating with the computer via USB. So during wireless mode, any lag cause by the wireless communication between the mouse and dongle is purely in addition to the the delay from the USB. To find out the real lag from using the mouse wireless, we would need a high speed camera and compare the mouse movement vs mouse pointer delay with the mouse in wired vs wireless mode. Of course, this is all very little, and probably below anybody's threshold to be able to tell the difference, at least on a good wireless mouse. If we can play against people online without having its lag bother us, a few more milliseconds from the mouse isn't much trouble.

 

I see that Logitech mice have already been brought up so I'll just add that I've been using a Logitech M510 for a couple of years now and have had no lag issues with it.

 

The one wireless Logitech mouse that I do have (M305), has rather good movement and stable clicking. Noticeably better than my wireless Microsoft 4000 mice.

I don't use it much because it is too small for my hand, and it also has this high outer plastic lip that interferes with my pushing of the right mouse button.

Does your Logitech M510 have any nearby plastic housing that interferes with your fingers pushing the main left or right buttons?

 

Yeah that is a problem. Sometimes it is like that, and sometimes it is how you want it to be. All Logitech wireless mice can use their unifying receiver, that you can pair up to 6 mice or keyboards with. Although they are compatible with it, their cheapest mice don't come with a unifying receiver.

I only have experience with Logitech mice and generic mice. I haven't touched one from Microsoft since my last Intellimouse Explorer died 11 years ago. I've opened up a number of mice, and the wireless chips used inside Logitech wireless mice are really good. They use the same ones from the cheapest to their most expensive model. And they are actually far more powerful than Logitech uses them for, and Logitech undervolts and underclocks them. The chipsets also support bluetooth and are extensively used for R/C cars, boats, and planes. Honestly, if Logitech wanted to, they could make all of their mice also bluetooth compatible, and save profiles and settings on the mice, as well as give them all 1000Mhz polling rates. I can't comment on Microsoft mice, or any other gaming mice, but I do know that lots of generic mice make huge sacrifices in performance and/or battery life in order to make them cheaper.

 

Interesting that the cheap Logitech wireless mice don't come with a unifying receiver.

Anyway yesterday I ordered a Logitech M510 (refurb/ebay) and also a G700 gaming mouse (new/amazon).

Given that the M510 is the biggest selling mouse, odds are there are a lot of OK factory refurbs with it, so I went with an ebay factory refurb at ~$16 total just to find out if I like it, let alone worrying about any other possible issues.

 

As a further followup, if I like both the M510 (refurb) and the G700 (new), maybe I'll also try a MX Performance mouse.

One step at a time.

Meaning that my revisit of my already owned Logitech wireless M305 mouse was very positive in the favor of trying additional Logitech mice.

 

I got my refurb Logitech M510 mouse today. Rather nice fit for my large hand, but the mouse laser doesn't work!!

So more bloody time needed to sort this.

I'm open to more M510 mice just given what arrived today and that the USB receiver works with other M510 mice. Only time will tell where this goes, as well as how buying on ebay protects one from stuff like this happening.

An early disappointment with buying "used/refurb" stuff on ebay.

The G700 is new from an Amazon 3rd party vendor so that's yet to play out.