High end IEMs ...

Hello everyone,
first of all, I know NBR isn't the best place to ask for headphones - I heard head.fi mentioned before - but I don't fancy registering on another forum if I can help it.

Any help is appreciated - I've got about a month plus minus until they get bought - so its no rush either - and I won't be able to try them - at least I'm 99% certain of that.

I would like comments regarding sound quality and comfort - comfort being important.

Up to now my best headphones to date are the Sony EX85 or Sony EX85LP (both notations exist) - they are quite good - but not the best
They are to me very comfortable - simple earbuds, I can, in contrast, only wear for about 10 seconds before my ear hurts badly.

I would like similar or better comfort - this is essential to me - and they will be my only pair of everyday headphones, on the laptop, on an MP3 player.
On CDs maybe too.

Music:
I'm listening to Rock, Pop, Classical - I know an odd mix - oh and folk should sound good too - basically everything.
Rock - the extreme end is Led Zeppelin and Queen - Classic - the other extreme is Chopin
Oh, and music like Jean Michelle Jarre and Mike Oldfield too every now and then - I need a multi-talent.

Narrowing down my choices I arrived at 6 models from 5 manufacturers - comments would be appreciated:

Sony EX700LP /EX700
Sennheiser IE8
Klipsch Custom 3
Shure SE530PTH
Ultimate Ears Triple.fi 10 pro/vi (2 versions)

These range from140 Pounds (Sony) to 231 Pounds (Shure) on Amazon - I don't want to exceed this price (no more than 250 Pounds anywhere - will be in Germany at the time of buying) - but which of these would be best for comfort and sound? Maybe some I have't listed?

Thank you very much for any help

(Because I don't know where to go with these... )

Edit:
Little Update - I have a feeling I will head towards the Shure SE530 or the Ultimate Ears Triple.fi 10 ... not yet definitive though.

Edit 2:
Someone who's opinion I value recommended Sennheiser IE8...

I thought it would be just between two - Shure and Ultimate Ears... now the Sennheisers have joined the fry...they cost less... so that's a plus... arg.... this is difficult...

Edit 3:
Seriously considering the Senheiser IE8 - maybe Shure SE530 - but I think Sennheiser would be better for me.

 

To be honest, after trying out some open headphones, I've never looked at IEMs the same. I've only ever bought some cheap JVC Marshmallows. Currently own a closed pair (Sennheiser HD201) and waiting for my Grado SR80 to arrive. Hope the above list from head-fi.org helps. It may be a little outdated though...

 

I can't stand large bulky headphones - don't ask why they also always slip form my head and I can't really use them outside with a shirt and tie.
(and also otherwise wouldn't use them out of doors)

I used some clip on earphones - that sat on wither ear individually - but their sounds was worse than my current Sony EX85 - so IEMs are the way to go for me - no compromise - the only question is which.

This list tells me I don't need an amplifier - I thought that was "natural" with them... (I hope I read this correctly)

 

give a try on westone UM3X?

using sennheiser ie7 now and i love it; forseeable upgrade will probably between IE8 or westone UM3X if i cannot get a custom at similar price

 

Looks interesting - but I think that is out om my price range.

Amazon.co.uk doens't list them (they are my "price guide" - very few shops are cheaper) - but some others are around 300 Pounds - while they look promising they are too expensive I'd say - and hey, I don't want headphones more expensive than my music player - although it'll be close
(I'm going to upgrade that too)

 

I'm not exactly sure how deep into the hifi hole digging into but the Audio-Technica ck7's are pretty well priced and very good for portability. I use them on my iPod on the move and Senn HD650's at home. I'd rather skimp a bit on earphones and get a decent pair of headphones IMO.

 

If you read my second post - I abhor large bulky headphones - and also, why pay twice if you can pay once? I use my EX85 at home instead of speakers because they sound better - I think the speakers are placed badly...)

I'll have a look at Audio Technica...

Edit: I think they are a different "league"...

 

Sounds like to me that you need some custom fitted IEM's. If you have that big of a problem with comfort, then you'll have it with pretty much any of the above mentioned IEM's. For the price you might not get as good sound quality, but you will definitely get much more comfort. www.hearyourself.com does cutsoms, as does UE and www.fidelitycustomeearphones.com aka livewires.

 

Well my Sonys are perfect - ifthey just sit in the ear canal I'm Ok - if they "press" anywhere else on default use I'm not...

Custom would probably be better still - but that adds even more to theoriginal cost and offers plenty of individual problems - but I think on the Shure's you can get a custom flange afterwards at a later time - or did I read that wrong?

I'll look at the links by the way

I have a feeling I'll be going either Ultimate Ears or Shure...

 

Yes, the shures are custom tips on universal IEM's, which actually changes the sound alot and the results usually aren't that great.

 

Meaning - sorry - but I'm not sure I understand it correctly.
The Shures are customtips on standard IEMs - so are teh shures standard IEMs? This has me confused...

Which one is better by the way? I can get people arguing either way on the web - I can hardly get both.

Oh, and custom is too expensie for me - this is pretty expensive too.
(although I do plan on a Sony X1060 to go with them )

 

Its the same IEM, with a custom tip instead of a silicon or foam tip. But it adds more area to the IEM's canal, thus changing the sound. Most say it changes the sound for the worse. But with the IEM's that are built custom, and thats the only way you can get it then you don't have that factor.

 

Ah, OK. That is true I suppse - but custom made is out of the question at the moment.

I'll have to see if my grandfather can ind a shop that sells them locally...maybe that'll make them easier once I arrive... I only feel Amazon will be the best price I can get... its a dilema...

 

IEM have the heart beat issue. You can hear your heart beat so it's kind of annoying.

You can look at Audio Technica ESW9 headphones. They are small but have excellent sound.

 

maybe i have died... i couldn't hear my heart beat wearing IEM

 

Heart beat issue? I've never heard my heart. But I can easily hear when my cable moves with some headphones. That is referred to as microphonics. Some IEM's suffer from it much more than other do, and they say if you run the cables up around your ears then it helps eliminate alot of it.

 

can't hear any heart beats, but plenty of noise of the cable brushing around whenever ii move a muscle.

 

Me too .

 

Seems to be true in my case. Certainly no such issue with my UM1s.

 

upgraded from your super.fi 4 eh?

 

I had super.fi3 but sort of yeah, much more comfortable these UM1s are. Very different sounding too.

 

Help!

Someone recommended the Sennheiser IE8 immediately - someone who's opinion I value... I thouht I just had 2 choices - Shue and Ultimate Ears - now I have three

...now I see where being a fan is useful - I love Sony - that's why I should get the Sony headphone - but if I can get somehing better I want something better!

 

I had the HD280's from Sennheiser. I loved then when I first got them, as they sounded much better than my PX100's
However they were tight on my head even after expanding them. The natural design was to be tight and well it would cause headaches after a while.
They look bulky and feel heavy.
You may want to look for a light weight headphone solution.
I havent looked at your choices yet, just offering a opinion

Oh, I guess IEM means in ear something or another

i guess my comment is kinda not helpful

K-TRON

 

Yepp - by the way - my mother has the HD215 she finds them comfortable - I just can't arrange myself with headphones that sit on your head - they always go walkies for me too...
Personally I actually prefer my Sony EX85's sound to the 215 - a bit more bass - not much, but a bit - but I wasn't comparing, so.

 

i have IE7 and i will say IE8 is worthwhile if the price is cheap enough...
dynamic drivers are actually enjoyable to listen to.

it will sound really well once it is broken into.

 

Are they the sae/better than the Shure or Ultimate Ears?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/...0-er4p-triple-fi-sensaphonics-2xs-etc-396277/
From this they are at least siilar if not better - I didn't compare thm number for number.

Your IE7s - they just sit in the ear canal? That's the only reason I can wear my EX85 - cheap earbuds I can wear for 10 seconds or so before my ear hurts...

Used my EX85 the whole day yesterday in the evening I started to notice them - i.e. comfort is good. how is comfort with the Sennheisers?

 

The IE8 is bassy so not everyone will like it. Look at Westone UMX3, they have a flat neutral sound.

 

The Westone UMX3 have been recommended before - and they are ou of my budget - I'll possibly order them via AMazon to save money and Amazon does not list them, but list a, I believe lower model which is close to my maximum.

A touch bass isn't bad for me either - as long a its not too much - and from what I can read, on default it isn't a problem with the IE8.

I am seriously turning towards them at the moment - also because they are the middle ground in price...

I'll get a report from Germany too I hope - on shop prices from my family

 

You can buy the UMX3 here for exactly on your limit with free shipping: http://www.earphonesolutions.com/westone-um3x.html

You can also check out Klipsch X10 here for $235AUD which is a bargain: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=116_249_767&products_id=8549

There are fake IEM on Amazon so be careful.

 

ie7 just isn't as deep as the others but i still get an adequate seal from it; it's less, but adequate.

 

just a thought, the ie8s are fairly large, it's possible that you will find them uncomfortable.

 

Hmm, only problem Australia is a bit far away

Fake IEMs on Amazon - how come? Amazon is anestablished retailer?? Or is that by one of the subcontractors on Amazon? Sometimes you don't buy directly from Amazon but they offer products from a different merchant - is that what you mean?

The Klipsch - aren't the Cusomt 3 theoretically better? Only point I find is that looking on the internet the "best" seem like the Shure SE530 and Ultimate Ears with Sennheiser having joined... I may be wrong though...

Who brought up IE7 - or do you personally prefer them to the IE8?

Size is less important than how they sit - if they just sit in the ear canal I should be OK - but thank for the warning.

I suppose I could always go Shure instead of Sennheiser... arg....

 

In terms of general sonic quality bang for the buck, there's no doubt that the Sennheisers have an edge. As it's probably been explained, the IE8's use a dynamic driver which gives a more natural sense of detail and a similar frequency response to the more complex, expensive multi-driver balanced armature designs. However, you don't get the same level of acoustic isolation as the Shures with foam tips - and trying to stick a truly isolating foam tip on the Senns will not always yield the best results / comfort.

Personally, I use the Ultimate Ears UE-11 custom and the Shure SE530. I find the narrow bore on the Shure in-ears to be the most comfortable, and in terms of tip selection the most versatile. I use the Shures as commuters and the UE's for multi-hour wearing (air travel).

There are many rave reviews of the SE530's in sonic terms on the Internet with even more superlatives given towards the UE-11, but I think these people are perhaps comparing only with other earphones, and haven't really heard a pair of decent headphones. One of the better ~$2-300 open (and even some closed) headphones can easily beat out the UE-11 for sound quality, and the SE530 sounds horribly rough and muffled when compared to most headphones of around the same price as it. Given these attributes and the fact that it comes from the way balanced-armature drivers work, it's all the more laughable to read even greater platitudes waxed lyrical for the Etymotics, which just shifts the same sonic characteristics to the upper trebles.

The real reason for buying IEM's is the portability, comfort (in terms of not having something clamped to your head) and isolation compromise, although for this you pay quite a heavy price. And if you are going to be making the compromise, I personally don't see why you should settle for mediocre isolation - as you will have with the Sennheisers.

To me, the SE530 has everything physical you'd want out of an IEM - short/long cord flexibility, comfort, switchable between quick to wear and reasonably isolating to slower to wear but highly isolating - along with half-decent sound. I haven't tried the very latest ones on the market such as from Klipsch, but I prefer the SE530 above UE, Westone and Etymotic's generic-fit offerings.

 

I believe there have been different isolation experiences with the Senneheisers if I read other forums (from the outside) correctly.

Obviously, it doesn't beat the Shure's but the question is, do I nee full isolation - if I'm walking along a street etc. My Current Sony's don't isolate fully - I find they are best at isolating against high pitched sounds and let in deeper base sounds.
I don't have a problem with the not full isolation - in fact I prefer it sometimes - I just switch off my music when the conductor comes around.

I think my key problem here is a lot of preference - I found one comparison that ranked the Sennheisers above the Shures others will do it the other way around.

It may also be easier for me to get the Sennheisers - they are offered directly by Amazon - also de & uk - the Shures are a different merchant on Amazon.

So I seriously tend towards the Sennheisers at the moment - but I'm not 100% sold yet.

Thanks for the extensive reply
(+ rep)

 

If the Sony EX level of isolation is fine, then I'd also be leaning towards the Sennheisers. However doing the sort of commutes I do and also listening to a lot of spoken-word stuff (which can obviously get lost in a sea of other voices if there isn't adequate isolation), I frequently find the EX-style rubber bungs inadequate.

 

I'm commuting to university too - and generally my Sony EX85s are fine - volume on my MP3 player on 15 (maximum - some very quiet pieces on 20) - any more and I fear I'll disturb other people - and its a quiet player I think - and I'm fine.

Thanks.

Looks like I'm nearly sold on the Sennheisers then - this would also save about 30 Pounds - that's the price difference on Amazon.

 

That sentence doesn't entirely make sense from the context of an IEM.

With an IEM - a proper IEM - there is zero leakage. The point of isolation isn't for the benefit of people around you, regardless of how considerate you are - it is so that you can hear more of the music at the same volume, or less.

 

I think is not actually leakage - I think it the whole design - it goes through the casing - and the EX85 are an odd design anyway.

I suppose this may change with m next pair

Edit:
With leakage I mean/understand music comming from your actual ear as the earbud isn't tight.

 

If the IEM isn't tight in your ear then it wont sound good. Without a good seal I don't think any IEM would sound good, they're built to be sealed into your ears. Some IEM's are 'open' and they may leak a little, but not enough for it to be a problem anywhere but a library, and there its only for the people a few feet from you.

 

I think my Sony's are open - I found a comment in that respect on an audio forum - and they sound better than my Logitech speakers or any other headphones I can try at home.

Also - if I'm sitting/standing next to someone on public transport - I canno stand all the adolescents/young people who have their music blaring out of their cheap headphones - of course they don't mind...

I am determined not to annoy people around me with my music.

 

One of the key differences with dynamic (Sony EX, Sennheiser IE) and balanced-armature (Shure, etc) drivers is that armatures work optimally only with with an airtight seal. There's no vent, as there has to be in the case of dynamics. With a balanced-armature driver phone there is zero sound leakage. Plus what I said above.

 

Ok, thanks.

 

I currently use the UE Super.Fi 5 Pro (2 balanced armature) and that would be a good choice to start off with. It doesn't require an amp to drive them and sounds pretty decent.

 

My key problem with those is that there is still potential to uprade - I want to jump to the top league - and even though there is quite a price difference between say Ultimate Ears Triple.fi 10 and Sennheiser IE8s - the IE8 score very close - possibly so close that I won't noticethe difference.

I wanted to make a leap from my Sonys.

 

If you can answer these questions it would be much easier for us to choose you an IEM

- What is your budget limit in USD?
- What source will you be running the IEM from?
- What type of music do you listen to?
- Do you like Warm or Detailed music?
- How much bass do you like? A lot, moderate or little.

 

US Dollars - no clue - I'm in Europe - and myfirst post actually tells you all except "warm or detailed" and bass.

Bass - don't mind a touch of bass.

I suppose I won't mind detail - definitely better for classical music

 

So you will be running the IEM from your laptop?

The following will be of interest to you then:
Etymotic ER-4P/S
UE Triple.Fi 10 Pro

 

Regarding the above recos, the Super.Fi 5's are the easiest to recommend in terms of cost vs sound for a balanced-armature phone since the 5's gives you much of the sonic benefits of multi-driver phones without some of the higher costs of the higher-end models, but they provide the least isolation and the least optimal fit - leading to many differences in terms of perceived sound - due to the bore size (same as the EX85, but has to be driver further into the ear to work properly), unless you have very large ear canals. Definitely a 'try on return if possible'.

The Etymotics sound much less balanced, with a sharp, bass-deficient tone and they provide a characteristic overstretched single-driver balanced-armature sound - the combination of bass loss and the much higher distortion due to the overworked driver inserts what is basically very high-speed static, which gives the impression of an incisive and better-detailed sound even when compared to many multi-drivers. (Which isn't actually the case, in case that's not clear). Again one to try - but first of all an acquired taste, and too much of a compromise for me.

One of the points of the multiple balanced-armature drivers is the removal of that distortion by not stretching one driver across all frequencies, which results in a less apparently detailed, but actually more genuinely detailed sound with better tonal balance.

 

I was thinking about the Triple.fi 10 and Shure SE530 first - I am worried about comfort with the Triple.fi though - my Sony's are 100% comfortable for me - but some people find the triple.fi uncomfortable.
Also, it'll be laptop and MP3 player.

The Etymonic look interesting - has anybody got any comparisons hany or do I have to go digging?

I wonder though - will I hear the difference between say the Sennheiser IE8 and say the tripple.fi 10 - I may not as both are ratedvery higly by uers...

Try on return sounds like difficulties to me - also, I'm not sure if I'll use Amazon - if I do I may have to order for Amazon uk t Germany - that works - so I'd rather avoid "try on retrn if possible".

So I think with all the comments as I stand my choices are:
first: Sennheiser IE8
second: Shure SE530

The Triple.fi are a possible comfort problem - also, - the Sennheiser I can get directly off Amazon (or shop?? depending on price) - the Shures or Ultimate Ears I'd have to get via a merchant on Amazon uk...

Edit:
In terms of price the Etymonic are lower - a bit above the Sonys... so definitely affordable.

Update: Etymonic is a no go - they go to only 15/16kHz - I can still hear at these frequencies - I think 19/20kHz is where my "cut off" is - and in Classical music ths may be sigificant - not in pop or rock - but I need a multi talent.

 

OK - Just to finalize this:

I think I have 99% made up my mind to get the Sennheisr IE8.
Now I only have to see how exactly it'll work out - order in a shop in Germany, use Amazon uk, or Amazon de...

I know that some people will prefer other headphones for better isolation etc. - but from what I can see they sound great with most music - people have been happy in classical and rock - and have no downsides compared to my current headphones - everything is better (and should be)

Please only mention any very (!!) significant problems not yet mentioned before.

Thank you to everybody who contributed.