Looking for a reliable Wireless Gaming Mouse

I am currently in a market for a reliable gaming mouse.

I've come down to these 2 http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-G700s-Rechargeable-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00BFOEY3Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409666925&sr=8-1&keywords=logitech+g700s and Amazon.com: Bloody R8A wireless gaming mouse: Computers & Accessories.

I have read some reviews and but still I can't decide due to the result that I have seen were only personal preferences and uses. So I want to know some other professional inputs here. If also there are other options available for me, please do share them. Although I don't really prefer a razer brand due to their prices, if you can share some advantages that will make it worth it then I might consider it. Thank you in advance.

 

I'm not so sure of the bloody's wireless implementation (I have the wired model). But you can give it a try, the mouse's build quality is nice and the sensor is pretty decent with native 400dpi steps and 2m/s max tracking speed. My only problem is the mouse glide being unsuited for soft mousepads.


The safest option is the G602 from Logitech, though the shape and weight is not that compact :/

 

Razer Mamba or Razer Orochi (I have the Orochi).

Mamba is meant more for a desktop or mostly stationary laptop.

Orochi is meant more for an on the go gamer.

 

Mamba / Orochi: PTE sensor, extremely sensitive to dust and vibrations, Z-axis tracking issue, and dynamic DPI scaling at slow swipes.

Keep in mind that the Orochi doesn't support more than 125hz polling via bluetooth, it's nothing more than an office mouse once you use the bluetooth mode.

 

Dust, yes. Most optical mice will get a bit buggy when the sensor gets dusty. More so with a higher DPI sensor.

Vibrations...? I have taken this mouse on a plane with me and not seen any detrimental effect. And its usual spot is on the laptop board on the bed next to me. Even with all my rolling around, I've not seen any adverse effects to vibrations large or small.

I was warned about this. Haven't seen a twitch yet.

I don't think the Orochi supports dynamic DPI in bluetooth. Only in wired mode.

A high polling rate isn't always necessary during gaming. Besides, all mice using USB 2.0 poll at 125hz by default, so that would make all USB mice office mice.

Mouse Polling Rate: Important or bunk? - Ars Technica OpenForum

Evaluating Mice: DPI And Polling Rate - Four Keyboards And Four Mice For LAN Party Gamers, Rounded-Up

 

PTE's tracking is ruined by a single speck of dust in the lens / surface. Usually it spazzes out (older ones). Optical can still be OK when having a small amount of dust in the sensor or the mousepad.

Vibrations such as speakers, subwoofers, etc can cause jitter in the mouse input signal (evident in paint), the early Razer mouses with PTE also suffer from minor Z-axis issue when clicking the mouse over a soft mousepad (usually mousepads sink a little when you click a mouse over it).

Z-axis occurs when you LIFT the mouse off the surface, causing a downward and to the right motion not seen in most optical or laser sensor. This is extremely detrimental to low DPI players who have to lift the mouse often from the surface to reposition.

The 2nd set of optical sensor (most presumably a low cost A3050) is used only for lift distance calculation and will cut off the PTE sensor if the A3050 reaches it's max LOD. This can cause extra input lag because the mouse MCU has to process signal from TWO different sensor at one time.

Dynamic DPI scaling was implemented to reduce the effect of vibration and soft mousepad, it REDUCES the DPi when you don't move the mouse or when you swipe it slowly. It's harmful to your aim, it creates massive negative accel and causes you to be inconsistent.

Most of PTE's flaw (except the Z-axis tracking issue) can be fixed with a hard mousepad out of plastic or metal material. This is because hard mousepad has a much more uniform surface and doesn't really bend down or sink because of pressure. The problem with these kind of mousepad is that they are expensive and relatively small compared to cloth mousepads. Low sensitivity FPS players do not like hard pads because they don't provide any kind of friction when you swipe across it (dynamic friction), and that it doesn't feel as nice to your skin compared to cloth mousepad.


Now you might be thinking: Why not raise your DPi and sensitivity so you don't raise as much and can use a hard pad better.

Changing your sensitivity requires you to relearn the muscle memory gained when using your previous sensitivity, how much you need to swipe to rotate this much etc. In fast paced games like CS, muscle memory is very important to perform quick corner checks and snap to targets without needing to match your crosshair visually (you remember how much distance it is required to swipe to that target).

Lower sensitivity is also much more beneficial to accuracy, you can adjust your aim better. Using high sensitivity requires you to aim with your wrists (which is less accurate and is more stressful on your motoric controls.




125/500hz is noticeably more choppy when moving the mouse, your EYES might not see it, but when aiming in game it gets annoying and the tracking feels very weird. Low hz can also cause lower tracking speed evident with the Microsoft Intellimouse-MLT04 series (1.6m/s on 1000hz, 1.0m/s less on 125hz): PHOTOS: Mouse 125Hz vs 500Hz vs 1000Hz | Blur Busters (with G-SYNC and G9x mouse)


Don't just assume that bad things don't happen if you don't see them, it will cause you to miss more often and the mouse will feel less "connected" to your hand.

Mouse normally polls around 125hz, yes, but that's the MINIMUM level you can set in a gaming mouse, not the max. Most mouse supports 1000 and 500hz as standard. This can be changed with the drivers that comes with it (or some mouses they have a physical button on the chassis)

The only exeception on mouses that you should not poll at 1000hz is the Zowie with 3090 sensor and some Microsoft Intellimouse-MLT04 (most can be stable at 1000hz, some isn't)





Also, uninstall Razer synapse after you're done configuring the mouse. Synapse is a cancer to mouse tracking and seriously messes with the maximum tracking speed. It takes the highest DPi out of the sensor and software interpolates it to a lower level. For example the max DPi is 800 and you set it to 400 in Synapse, it will drop every 2nd count from the sensor via software filter and you end up with 1/2 the tracking speed + added input delay because of software processing.




But hey, don't let me stop you from using PTE sensor and all it's flaws. Just my 2cents.

Edit: and don't forget that since PTE stands for Philips Twin Eye, one of two laser sensor can die prematurely leading to a problem called axis death (mouse does not track X or Y direction)

 

^^^

Wow. Little itchy aren't ya?

I still recommend the Orochi.

 

@radji and Mobius 1

Thank you guys for the inputs that you've shared. I know I ask for a professional inputs for this one but I didn't expect the kind of answers that you've given. I guess your responses were too "professional" , LOL. Anyway about the mice that you have suggested, first the orochi, I have read the review about it and I'm kind of skeptical to buy it because of its wireless issue (bluetooth disconnecting issue). Also It does not come with a nano receiver. I have read good things about the G602 but I do you think G700s would be better because it is rechargeable? I have looked for some other choices, the mamba and naga epic but their prices were too much for their performance. I am basing this on what I have read on other forums. I would also like to ditch the A4tech R8A in my choices since it doesn't have a replaceable battery. Basically, what I am looking for is something with a great or at least decent battery life and does perform well too. Although, backlit features on razer and some other brands are a plus but I can live without it. If you have still have other suggestions please do share them. Thank You

 

Roccat Pyra wireless, not sure how'd you like this one (pretty small). Sensor is the same as the R8A, but has a custom 0.5x magnification lens that doubles the perfect control speed (but as a negative effect it limits the "real" DPi to 1600).
PMW3305DK sensor, good precision but has angle snapping ( angle snapping | Mark's Devblog), RED LED illumination.



G700s has A9800 laser sensor, this is an extremely bad sensor if you play anything that needs precision cursor movement. There is about 0-5% randomly occuring positive acceleration (on cloth mousepad), which means for every swipe it will be perfect or overshoot anywhere from 0.001-5%. It also has an added smoothing (which adds to the input lag) which is essential to crank the sensor up to 8200DPi. Plus it's extremely heavy. You can remedy this slightly by using a hard pad, but not completely. Overall the cursor feels very floaty, laggy and imprecise (testing with A9800 based Bloody TL8).

Any mouse that advertises "laser" and 8200 (A9500) or 5600 (A9500) has the above symptoms.




I can't really say about Bluetooth in the Orochi, but from my experience with a bluetooth mouse (Apple magic), I'd just stay away. There's so much problems such as random disconnects, mouse stopped syncing with PC, etc etc.


So either the Pyra wireless or the G602 would be my only recommendation.

Edit: pyra has rechargeable battery, not sure if removable.

 

Thanks man, I think I will opt for the G602 then.

 

The Orochi is not a wireless gaming mouse. It is only a mediocre gaming mouse when wired.

 

The only complaint I have about my Orochi is the battery life. If you use regular AA's, you will be changing them once a week. I opted for some high capacity rechargeable AA's. They have gotten me over a week without needing recharging yet.

Not had any random disconnects. Then again, my Orochi is right next to my Alienware (and it's bluetooth antenna). And my bluetooth is built it, like most laptops. So there's no need to include a bluetooth nano receiver with the Orochi.

No matter what mouse you go with, stick with a rechargeable battery system. If the Pyra has a rechargeable battery built in, look at it's battery capacity versus power requirements. That way you will know if the battery will be needing a recharge every night versus once a week.

 

I picked up one of these .Liking it so far . Razer Ouroboros Gaming Mouse – Wired / Wireless Mouse for Gaming

 

Problems with the mouse

1. Useless Laser sensor with random 5% positive accel on all surfaces (read earlier page)
2. Dual sensor that has a rumored excessive lag issue (smoothing) - tested on Taipan 4G dual sensor with same sensor setup
3. Price
4. Weight
5. Gimmicky "grip adjusting" feature
6. Razer build quality

 

So what mice do you recommend?

My M65 is dying on me but its been nothing short of awesome

 

Everyone keeps telling me this, but I have yet to see an cursor twitch or the like. Wondering if it's because I have synapse taken offline.

Again, everyone tells me its gonna happen, but I haven't had it happen (yet) with my Orochi. Maybe because I've got the mouse within 6 inches of my notebook at all times?

Agreed.

Agreed (but...meh)

Never knew what to make of that. Other than it being useless and goofy looking.

No more shoddy than anyone elses...so far...

Then again, I've only used Microsoft Wireless Mice up until this point.

 

1. No, it's a completely different sensor architecture, not tied to the PTE issues I said earlier. The Taipan and Ouroboros uses a VCSEL laser (single sensor, works like an optical) while the Orochi and Mamba is using a PTE sensor. PTE does not have accel, but has Z-axis issue.

The 0-5% accel is not tied to firmware, driver software or user error. It's a flaw in the sensor architecture. (A9xxx series)



2. Excessive lag/smoothing is not connected to using wireless.

The Ouroboros uses its own dedicated wireless module, which eliminates issue with the BT disconnects.

By smoothing/Lag issue, I mean the INPUT DELAY present with the A9800 (Ouroboros uses a modified S9818) sensor. This is required because of the heavy cursor postprocessing needed to crank the sensor up to a high DPi.

Dual sensor =/= PTE

The Dual sensor setup in the Ouroboros uses a singe VCSEL sensor paired with a secondary optical calibration sensor only used for surface calibration using the mouse software.


Keep note that the newer iterations of the Taipan 4G (Taipan 4G V2) removes the calibration sensor and Razer chose to go back to sensor side illumination tweaks for surface calibration.

I suspect that because of the second sensor, if you tweak the mouse to a certain surface, there would be added sensor data postprocessing (similar to smoothing) carried out by the mouse to "adapt" to that surface. By having the optical calibrator removed, the sensor signal has less postprocessing and reduces input lag.




Taipan, Ouroboros . 4G laser "dual sensor": S9819/S9818 VCSEL laser sensor with second sensor acting as calibrator. Has 0-5% inconsistent positive accel due to a flaw in the sensor architecture, has smoothing issue that is caused by the cranked DPi and the usage of a second calibration sensor.


VSCEL sensor with second calibration sensor







Orochi, Mamba, Lachesis, Imperator. 3.5G laser sensor: PTE, has Z-axis bug.

Orochi, Mamba, Lachesis, Imperator. 4G laser "dual sensor" (PTE+calbration sensor):


PTE sensors has a green color to it's lens.

Orochi 3.5G PTE sensor

 

That may be why I have not experienced the lag issue. My Orochi is 4G (allegedly) and I have the DPI turned down to 2400 DPI.

 

Mad Catz R.A.T 9 Gaming Mouse

RAT 9 is very good, but you have the wire on the charger..

 

@radji, nvm the 4G on the Orochi, it doesn't have the second calibration sensor. "2400DPi" is not a sensitivity in FPS games, post your cm/360. I suspect that you use an incredibly high sensitivity and thus unable to feel the Z-axis bug.

Dynamic DPi scaling can be avoided in older PTE sensor if you turn it down to 400.

Lol MadCatz, even poorer build quality than Razer mouses. The only model I would even slightly consider from them is the RAT3, and that has a really cheap feel when you hold it.

 

My sensitivity isn't that high. My windows multiplier is only 1.5 and any of my games are old, so their sensitivity settings don't affect much. I usually keep it one step above default which tends to be 4. Comes out to 2.9 cm/360.

 

WPS should be 6, to reduce any pixel skipping.

2.9cm is insanely high, you lose the ability to precisely place shots on far away enemies.

Currently my sens is around 40cm/360 (I compensate for the low sens by moving my arm instead of just my wrists). I need to lift my mouse often, with a PTE it would be a nightmare.

 

I keep my WPS at 7 because I don't have much room to move my mouse around on the pad next to my R2. With the DPI at 2400 and WPS at 7, my mouse sensitivity is the lowest it can be and still put the cursor on any point on my screen without having to lift it up and move it around.

 

7 will skip pixels, making your cursor inaccurate.

 

Whaddya suggest? Turn the WPS down to 6 or lower and the DPI up to 3000?

I can't fit a bigger mouse pad on my laptop board.

 

I got a Delux M811 from Tinydeal. Actually i'm a big fan of Dota2. External keys are essential due to the multiple skills from heroes. But i don't recommend MMO and actually it's the sign of Razar. Delux has soft touching on every key. Backlight is launched at night so i recommend it.