Nuforce uDAC-2 Review

For gaming, grab yourself some ATH-AD700's, good for gaming but it does lack bass.

 

Also in BFBC2 set your sound output from "hi-fi" (or whatever your default is) to "war tapes". It makes everything sound much, much more amazing.

ATH-AD700's are good starter phones too. They have an emphasis on highs so they don't really sound great with some types of music. The HD555's are much more rounded and balanced overall for all types of music.

It depends how much money you want to invest in headphones.

 

If your a competitive gamer I think the AD700 are great, the soundstage is really wide and accurate, also they are super super comfortable and not hot on your head so you can wear them virtually forever.

The only thing that would turn of a lot of people is the lack of bass, so hearing those explosions they do not seem quite as alive, but just hearing them is nothing compared to feeling them with a proper subwoofer anyways. They definitely do a great job catching the ambiance though, in games like BFBC2 or BF2 the gunshots and other ambiance probably put you in the game more than the rumbling explosions.

 

Very nice and detailed review. I'd consider getting one but my current gaming headset runs off USB with its own integrated sound card.

I'd definitely recommend it though to anyone looking to enjoy audio better from their computer, or those with stereo (standard input) gaming headsets for that matter. Better sound makes a world of difference, be it when listening to music or playing games.

 

The 350's cost me about $160. They went up in price right when I decided to buy them but one of the biggest factors was they were collapsible.

So are there any decent headphones for all around listening (games, music, movies..) for that price that are collapsible? I mean I don't travel that often but when I do I don't want to risk getting whatever headphones I have damaged.

If the headphones are built strong enough then I guess a collapsible design isn't that important. What are your guy's opinions?

 

Im kind of thinking of some Ultrasone Hfi 580 for portable use because they collapse, and because they also have a nice carry case available for them (hard case) the case comes with the pro models not the hfi's and cost $40 thought so I have not got it yet.

 

What do you guys think of the Audio Techinca ATH-M50?

 

Opposite of the AD700's, fold-able, closed and bass is very punchy.

You wont regret buying it.

 

I alredy have a headphone amp, do i need a dac to if i connect the amp to the laptop?. Maybe a stupid question, but i have little knowledge about this

 

No, an amp should take an analog input, so you would connect your headphone out to the amp.

Its not the most desirable way to do things (double amping) and you wont get the clean source like you would from a DAC, but you can try it first to see how you like it.

 

Many thanks for replying

You seems like an expert!. I now have my amp connected to my CD/DVD player and it sounds very very good as long as the source is of good quality.

Maybe i misunderstand something, becuase i had always thought an amp would do the sound clean and not so much the DAC.

I had a desktop before with Asus Sonar Essence ST(inbuilt headphone amp),i still have the soundcard, and the sound from that card was very impressive to my phones to, so i quess i have to built another one later this year.

Could you advice a good quality dac?

 

too many good dacs to count. its sort of a more detailed question like what are you looking for in the way of budget, size, etc.

 

You can find a DAC with a line out and use your current amp.

If you have a Xonar card, id use that instead of a DAC and amp combo.

 

I wouldn't. The Xonar is OK, but nothing like as good for music as a dedicated amp and DAC.

Both Xonar and Xfi are better than onboard, BECAUSE, largely the DACs, and amps are of higher quality.
External devices are the next step in quality.

@Audi4eva

The amp is only one half of the sound equation, the DAC being the other half. That said, the output from most onboard and soundcards is better than it used to be, which is why the speakers/amp make the biggest difference.

It's an extention of Garbage In Garbage Out, if the signal is OK you'll get decent sound with good amping and speakers, improving the source signal improves what you're feeding the amp in the first place. The amp simply amplifies whatever signal it is sent. A good quality amp will do a good job with whatever it's sent, in terms of amplifying without introducing amplification artifacts/noise, and also in providing sufficient oomph for your speakers. It recieves the audio feed from a DAC, be it a soundcard, external DAC or onboard audio. DAC simply meaning Digital-to-Analogue Convertor. The higher quality the DAC the better quality feed you're providing to the amp.

Hope that makes sense.
As another slightly more mathematical way of showing it, consider the DAC as your base number. Consider your amp and 2* and your speakers 2*.

A decent soundcard is '1' output, so your 'overall' sound is 4 (1*2*2). Poor onboard sound is only 0.75 so overall audio is only 3. A Dac is 1.5, so your sound quality is 6.

The speakers and amp make the BIGGEST difference when you're supply decent input, but the input being supplied can hamper or hinder your overall sound, it can make the best amp and speakers sound poor, or relatively weak speakers sound better. With a poor input (cackDAC...we'll call it 0.2) you're only ever going to get poor audio, no matter how good the amp and speakers are, because they can only reproduce what they're given, even the best speakers in the world and amp will still produce relatively poor audio, because the source they're working with is so weak.


As examples, both Beresford and Cambridge Audio make well thought-of DACs in the £200 region.
I use a Total Bithead (similar to the UDAC2), but it still sounds way better than onboard feeding my headphones, because it supplies more power (and less line noise) due to a better output amp, and the DAC is higher quality.

 

Honosly i realy dont know what i looking for, i have no clue about DACs.

Thanks for the advice

I dont have the desktop PC now, only the soundcard is left.

Many thanks for a very good explanation

I have the headphone amp(Graham Slee Solo SRG) connected to my DVD/CD player now and the sound is very impressive as it is. Maybe the DVD/CD player have a good dac, i realy dont know as i have no clue to this.

I realy dont know if i need a extern dac

 

Ah I was presuming you wanted to use it with a PC. In terms of DVD and CDPlayers, there are ones out there with uprated components, and alternatively if you have optical out, you could bitstream via optical to a DAC, but the basic ones in them tend to be slightly better than a lot of PCs with onboard, and they don't suffer from the same level of interference as a full PC can do.

Honestly, you could still us a DAC to improve your sound, but if you've got a halfway decent CDPlayer, the output feeding your Graham Slee should sound pretty decent.

There's still a market even here for uprated components though, some people spend SILLY money on DVD/CD Players.

 

I found my X-FI Titanium sounded better than a Nuforce uDAC-2. I believe the Xonar is higher quality than the Titanium.

 

Xonar ST has good DAC's inside it rated at 118-124SNR which offers good clarity and more than enough op amps to drive 600ohm headphones. Do a quick google and you will find it uses quality parts.

If i had a sonar ST lying around, id scrape up some parts and build a small HTPC box, use it as the DAC and line out to your Graham amp.

 

I never said the xonar is bad. The essence line are pretty much the top specced pc cards for consumer use.
That said there are higher quality external devices and also professional items which is what I was referring to, the xonar isn't where the line ends and that is the point I was covering.

 

ViciousXUSMC... I love your work.


Can I say that, at least? I'm loving my uDAC2. It's the only high end audio source I have , and I am enjoying every moment with it.

For those curious...this thing is about the same volume as a ZuneHD (physical size), IMO. Not the old fat Zunes, nor the still slightly larger Zune flash models. It's small enough to be confused with a *small* wallwort power adaptor....

 

I dunno if this is already posted, but you made it to NuForce's own page

Nuforce.com | Awards | Reviews

 

I eventually bought the uDAC2-HP, and honestly I couldn't hear any difference between the uDAC and my laptop soundcard. I have two pairs of headphones: the Sennheiser HD497 and the Grado SR80. The good thing is the DAC worked without any problems in both Fedora and OpenSuse. Perhaps my laptop soundcard is too good? I think my previous laptop had a pretty bad soundcard. If I still had it, then perhaps I would hear a difference.

This is just to warn potential buyers that you shouldn't buy it, unless you have a good return policy.

 

Your the first to say that, while many others have not...

Its much more logical to assume that you have one or more of the following:

> your source is poor
> your hearing is poor
> your headphones are poor (sub $100 not really in the high quality spectrum)

Since there are no real "special" laptop on-board sound cards that are even close to this quality I can assure you its not because its not better than your old soundcard but something else.

There is a reason you dont hear the difference and your solitary testimony does not carry enough weight to being saying others should not buy it. I appreciate your feedback & opinion though do not get me wrong but state your experience as your own experience do not assume its like this for everybody else.

Id recommend trying some nicer headphones, doing some A/B listening tests and make sure you try more than one type of music.

 

I was able to google similar opinions from other people.

Sure, all of these are possible. But I decided to try the uDAC, because Internet reviewers seemed to indicate that my current headphones should be good enough to hear a huge difference. By the way, when I got Grado SR80, it was a huge upgrade in sound quality. It could also be the case that some of the people hear more of a difference, because they have high impedance headphones.

Actually, my current sound card is probably not that old (I got my current laptop less than half a year ago). Anyways, I found an interesting thread on head-fi.org, where some guy claimed that it makes much more sense to invest into good headphones than in DACs.

Let those people decide. Personally, if I was one of them, I would probably give it a shot, even after reading my previous post, given an overwhelming number of positive reviews. Just like I said make sure you have a good return policy.

I thought that's what I did.

Like which ones? I'm probably not going to do this now, but I'm just curious. Maybe I'll find this piece of information useful later. So far I was always happy with my headphones updates.

I tried various things, but I eventually focused on the latest albums from Opeth and Riverside (from a CD). I don't care if the uDAC-2 is decent for some kind of music I don't listen to.

 

Seems you made a mistake in assuming you could jump the "audio chain of quality"

The chain is Source --> Dac --> Amp --> Headphones

To get good quality all of these must be good quality and match well.

It does make sense to get better headphones before a dac if you have nothing in this chain yet since nothing else in the chain will show any real benefit before you do.

You could barrow somebody's dac & amp from Headfi that cost $5000.00 and it would not sound any better than your onboard card if you do not have the necessary equipment & hearing to extract those differences.

All I was really trying to say to you is; Thanks for sharing your opinion but this

Really was not stated as an opinion and more of as a fact & demand and should be re-worded, as you could be turning somebody off from something that is great just because you had a problem with it.

Again power in numbers, there are a lot more people that have seen and acknowledged how great the uDAC-2 is and how it improved listening greatly than anybody that said otherwise. Also you should notice these people are mostly those that had a good audio chain with source & headphones and they were only missing the DAC portion to release the latent ability they had from there better equipment.

 

I'm willing to buy a Nuforce uDAC-2 to use it on my netbook (as also pair it with my system Hi-Fi), and my question is: the range of the impedance of which is Nuforce uDAC-2, 0(?)- 300 Ohms, and beeing that I have the headphones "AKG K240 Monitor" that accept up to 600 Ohms (and also have a mini-cans "AKG K450"), will I be loosing performance in the headphones?, it would be preferable to get some headphones designed for a range up to 300 ohms, excluding of course the alternative to acquire another UDAC for now ? Wich cons and pros that would occur by keeping this setup I have with the AKG K240 Monitor's cans (600 0hms) or some other cans designed for 300 Ohms? Thanks!

In view of this aspect, because in all other respects I'm more inclined to opt for buying the Nuforce uDAC-2, it will be better alternative to the Nuforce uDAC-2, the Audinst HUD-MX1, while the latter is designed for a range of 16-600 Ohms?

 

From what ive read the uDAC2 already has some problems driving 300ohm cans to volume so i wouldnt recommend you use it for 600ohm cans.

Mind you it runs off USB power and is only rated for up to 300ohm.

 

cool, another nightwish and tarja fan here.

wondering if you tried the dac with 256/320 kb/s mp3s? Not all my music collection is lossless and was wondering if lesser files also get a quality improvement.

also have you tried the dac with a lesser soundcard such as a plain realtek one on most pcs?

upgraditis is biting me again and want to maximize value for my budget.
really trying to save up for ad900s but this has piqued my interest

 

What do you mean by tried it with a lesser soundcard? Do you mean compared?

 

256/320 is ok, losless is always ideal of course.

As long as its not 128 or something thats just horrible :/

 

Count me in.
I too bought the uDAC-2.
Considering that i switched from the onboard Realtek of my GX660 (which it isn't bad) to this, even with 256-320 kbps MP3s and FLACs, I hear a noticeable difference in soundstage and mids clarity.
Before the mids were a bit recessed, now I can focus more precisely on every instrument/effect/loop. Let's say it refreshed my M50s

 

The surest sign this company is full of BS and so are its wares:

NuForce Icon uDAC-2 Signature Gold Edition USB DAC and Headphone Amp

 

Haha, guess they are trying to appeal to the Apple crowd.

 

Wow that's a bit OTT for me!

To be honest I'm considering selling my Total Bithead; it's done me well but considering shifting up to a desk unit as Im not moving around quite so much anymore; and units like the Zero DAC offer me things like preouts to a standard amp and also the ability to push further; as they're not limited by the same power overheads of AAs/USB input as a portable unit.

Also traditionally in the electronics market you always pay more for something in a smaller unit; so a larger unit at a similar cost could potentially be nicer. Again not to say I dislike my Total Bithead (or think it or equivalent units like this sound bad); I don't, it's really nice sounding, but I don't have the same space/size restrictions anymore, and potentially something fullsized might suit me better

Plus as my younger brother is off to Uni soon, so I should be able to reclaim my set of Mission 751 which he's current borrowing, and that means I could go along the lines of:

Zero Dac---> Headphones
|
-> Amp ---> 751's

Offer the best of both worlds; headphones with great quality when I need to be quieter; amp and speakers when I want to produce a bit of stronger sound, whilst still benefitting from the superior DAC.

 

Hello Vicious, are you using your uDAC-2 with your HFI 2400 or the ICON HDP?
If with uDAC-2 how is the sound produce, can it handle the Ultrasone 2400? (just curious with uDAC-2)
I'm looking for a nice cool headphones and AMP/DAC for my laptop, with Ultrasone it looks good and new.
Waiting for a discount on Ultrasone PRO 2900, right now I'm set to get ICON HD for better specs and separate power supply.

 

I use the HDP at home its a DAC/AMP/Pre-Amp combo all in one.

I use the uDAC2 with my laptop since its small & portable and its a DAC/AMP

I have used the 2400's on the uDAC2 quite a few times (they fold up and have a bag so they are my travel cans also they look good so not embarrassed to wear them in public) they sound fine and are powered fine.

The new Fiio product the E10 may be better than the uDAC2 though between the E7 that was out at the time I got this I would choose the uDAC2 but with the E10 out now its pretty much the direct competitor and you cant argue that the price is cheaper on the E10.

Wish I knew somebody at Fiio to let me review one I could give the head 2 head comparison.

 

Nice to know uDAC2 can power the HFI 2400 well. Sometimes I'm thinking if I really need such Nuforce HD if something smaller can power up Ultrasone. But still one payment is OK for me than buying one after one another.

Yeah they're so cool and it's an eye catcher too. Yup I saw E10 on the internet and looks ok. Some sites even showed a result that Fiio has better result than uDAC2.

Thanks. Be watching this thread

 

Seeing as the E7 was notably better than the POS that is the nuforce (but not, in absolutes, that amazing for a DAC though priced right), it's pretty likely it's still going to be (even) better, isn't it? Heck, if you can't get it I'll happily send you one (when they're available here). Just know that although I might have given the pile of crud Nuforce away, I still have access to it.

 

Great review, tried them all and the uDac-2 is by fast the best buy for my M18x.... thx for this review!

 

Is it worth upgrading from the uDAC to uDAC-2 ?
I was also considering the Fiio E10, but have heard bad things about it specially the noise when the headphone cable is plugged in.

 

Id probably not bother to upgrade since it would be a minor one, save the money for something else or a bigger upgrade down the road.

 

What should i consider as in a high end upgrade option that will make a big difference in quality. I have Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones and Audio Engine's A5 speakers. I dont know what combination would work for my setup.

 

I bought Nuforce HD for my laptop and the my first impression is like "the bass is punchier" after few days of using it I think the sound is much better. Better sound in instruments etc etc. I did set the sample rate of iTunes and windows to 24/96.

Any other things I forgot? How much burn in time do I need to make this DAC/AMP gets better?
I'm saving some cash here to buy better, one of the best headphones by this 2012.

 

How does the E10 compare to the uDAC2?
Also, do these devices help with sound positioning? I'm using the Sennheiser IE8s which are known to have a very good soundstage, but I am definitely not getting that when I play BF3. I hear helicopters hovering over me and jets flying by, but when I look up, they are no where in sight.

Though my main reason for getting a DAC/amp is because the stock sound card in the Sager NP8130 is absolutely terrible compared to my old Sony FW.

 

The day Fiio sends me a E10 I can tell you the difference in a head2head review

 

Any comments on the soundstage improvement in games though? More of a general amp question than a uDAC2 specific question.

 

Soundstage is more going to be from your headphones than from your DAC/AMP

Something like AD700 would give you a huge and awesome sound stage.

But having true clear sound has always given me great positional awareness in games if that is what your talking about, just as good or better than any surround sound setup or surround headphones.

 

Hrmm, I dunno. I've been producing my own music for 6 years and I have a $1000+ soundcard. As long as bit depth and sampling rate are constant and there are no external issues (i.e. RF interference, presence of a ground loop etc) then there should be no significant difference that cannot be confused for placebo effect. I am not aware of any difference on the DA between any of the soundcards I use, which include a TC SK48, an Apogee Rosetta 200, an M Audio Delta 1010, pro tools HD native and onboard. I bought an SK48 mainly for reasons of connectivity (I have 4 hardware synthesizers and a guitar at home so I'm sprouting wires).

The really expensive converters tend to fulfill a multipurpose role beyond AD/DA such as house sync but I don't need one of those at home. Some also have proprietary dither which is again something I don't use at home. I don't use dither at all. The cost is usually a result of proprietary research and development and if you work in the industry or close to it, you sort of have a vested interest in ensuring folks like Dan Lavry, Paul Frindle et al. get paid so they can keep on pioneering.

For everyone else there are cheaper alternatives and derivatives that have all of the things home users can reasonably want. I think it is worth mentioning that the onboard soundcard your computer today is in many respects superior to the $20,000 pro tools rigs you could buy in the mid 90s. Onboard lacks connectivity so you don't have many inputs/outputs, preamps, MIDI and all the other things that tend to feature on expensive soundcards. But if you don't record lots of instruments simultaneously, you may not need any of these things.

Some people will talk about things like jitter but word clock signal variance is not something you can measure at home and these things are difficult to talk about. I lack the expertise to advise one way or another. I dunno. I wanted to go into some of the psychology of listening and interpreting sound but I don't know if there is interest or even whether it is relevant. But I will summarize by saying that perception and expectation are crucial components of listening to sound. If you buy a new soundcard and expect something to sound different or arbitrarily better then you start actively looking for differences (real or illusory). That by itself changes the whole way you listen to sound. If you spend alot of money on a converter it is common to expect an audible difference when most of it is psychological in nature. It is also very easy to trick the mind and ears with auditory illusions.

I like to use this little anecdote because anyone who has used signal processors like compressors and paragraphic equalizers will have experienced a similar phenomenon. I've lost count of the times when I've tweaked a compressor and got a banging sound, only to find out later that the channel was bypassed so it was in fact doing nothing. I still do this all the time which is why metering and visualization tools can be so useful.

 

Hello all. Read through entire thread and some other articles but am a newbie needing assistance. Bottom line: I hear distortion or system noise--not sure the technical name--when watching movies or listening to music on my Lenovo Ideapad laptop. I'm using Westone UM2s: UM2

I'm under the impression a DAC will clean up the audio. Looking for a minimally priced DAC that will complete the objective, if there is one. Is a DAC right for me? If so, should I go uDAC-2 or another route? Thnx!!!

 

If its a hiss like noise, its because IEM's are very sensitive. They can pick up the faintest of noise.

A udac2 will clean it up compared to onboard audio, but i wouldn't be surprised if you still hear some noise. If i recall mine only had some noise near the end of the volume pot.

I would check out the Fiio E7 range as an alternative.