RGB led Vs IPS - colors?

hallo guys, i have an alienware 17m r2 with the RGB LLED screen and i am amased by the colors.

yesterday i bought an IPS wide display for my desktop machine, as this is my first IPS screen i was hoping to see great colors, BUT compared to my RGB led the IPS colors are crap. I was hoping for more as all over the net when someone speaks about IPS screens they mention vibrant colors..

Specifically the IPS screen i bought is this:
Dell UltraSharp U2913WM 29" Monitor Details

on several reviews of it i found that the color gamut it covers the srgb curve and even some more:


I cant seem to find the color curves for the RGB led screen of the alienware though except this review:
Review Alienware M17x Gaming Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
that shows the color gamut of the alienware beeing this:


well with this in mind it seems the alienware screen and the ips should show almost the same colors BUT thats not the case, the reds and blues and greens (andf all their hues) on the alienware are something out of this world, the ips comes nowhere close.

So whats wrong? is the Alienware RGB screen what we call a wide gamut one? because if thats the case then the curves i found for wide gamut sceens are these:



and if the alienware screen is a wide gamut one then that explains the difference in colors.
But then the alienware review above is wrong about the colors the screen covers...


I dont know what to think. i am confused,.

 

It's very possible that one of the two screens (maybe the Alienware) isn't calibrated correctly to the sRGB color space, and you got used to that color and liked it You should calibrate the alienware with a Spyder3/4 or similar and see if you like it then Many people don't.
In fact, if you actually want to compare, you need to calibrate and apply .icc profiles for both screens

Here's a fast way to calibrate (to a semi-acceptable level) the m17x r2 screen: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...-m17x-r2-rgb-led-display-calibration-how.html

 

but i really really like the alienware screen right now, thats why i find the ips so dull...

And i dont think its a calibration issue, the difference of the screens is not the contrast or the brightness, its the color gamut, on the alienware screen i can see e real deep red color, and dozens of exotic green and blue hues, the ips screen doesnt show these, you can uderstand from the begining that the alienware screen has more colors! greater color pallet, thats why i ask if the alienware rgb led is a wide gamut one meaning that it covers this color range:
View attachment 101848

because that would explain the extra color range i can see in it. BUT if it has the same color range as the ips (only the srgb color range) then i cant explain the more colors it shows...

 

Maybe the IPS itself is not calibrated properly

EDIT: Have a read through this: http://www.digitaltrends.com/monitor-reviews/lg-ea93-review/

So: you need someone with a Spyder4 or similar calibration hardware to calibrate your screen. It's probably pretty terrible right now. Even calibrated, just because it covers the color SPACE, doesn't mean it will pe capable of accurately rendering individual colors inside the color space. So it may still look uglier than the Alienware screen, or it could look better You'd have to calibrate it to find out. The review does mention, though, that color fidelity is not a forte of that screen.

 

i really dont know.

can someone confirm if the alienwares rgb led screen is a wide gamut screen?

you read that it mentions that the screen covers "The measured color gamut is 100 percent of SRGB and 80 percent of Adobe RGB. "

whats the color gamut of the alienware screen ? if we find this then it will solve my questions. I know for sure that alienware is 100 percent of Srgb but what about Adobe rgb? how much of it does it cover?

 

IPS is the panel technology, RGB-LED is the type of LED backlighting. They're two different things and not mutually exclusive. Your M17x may have RGB-LED but it's still TN so it's inferior to the Dell in other aspects. Color gamut isn't everything, especially if it's not calibrated correctly. A too-wide color gamut is visually worse than a too-narrow one, even if over-saturation looks better to some people.

 

A lot of people who don't know better expect colours to 'pop' on a 'superior' screen. In fact if your screen is calibrated properly, it *will* appear somewhat dull compared to many lipstick-on-a-pig or RGBLED-with-issues screens. If you want to be sure your screen is calibrated properly, get a calibrator. If you like comedy colours on the other hand, I'm sure the Dell 29" has controls you can play with.

 

i know that, i didnt say that they are the same, i just name them like that so that you can understand which screen is which
Also apart from the colors for which i whine, other parts of the ips (like wide viewing angles and deep black ) i can see and i apreciate. Its just the colors that look better on the RGB backlit to me

maybe its just me then, seeing more bright and saturated colors an the alienware screen and thinking that they are better, BUT on the other hand, when i see the range of colors that the rgb led screen shows... hmm i mean there are hues of blue and green and red there that i really cant see in the ips panel (or my old tn led LG monitor) , by the way i use this picture for color comparison on my screens:


in that image the different hues of green and blue and red the alienware screen shows are astonishing, so real and so variant, the IPS on the other hand clearly has a lower color range, i mean where the led rgb shows a vibramt turquoise color the ips shows a dull green...

ok, you start making me understand, thank you for that
So you are saying that the vibrant Strong colors of the rgb as i said above are just so shiny that make me (and almost anyone else that sees the screen) think they are superior? Well as i said above , its not just the saturation , its the gamut (color range ) i see with the led rgb screen , i mean it clearly shows color variation buger than the ips. as i mentioned for example where the led rgb shows a vibramt turquoise color the ips shows a dull green...

can we find what color range a led rgb backlit screen has (not just alienwares, any other led rgb backlit screen ) ? i mean can we find the curves as i found for the Dell ips screen.

DEL IPS COLOR RANGE
View attachment 101846

Ok , wait guys, i found this:


if it is correct (i dont doubt it) , then the color range of an rgb backlit tn screen (like tha alienwares) is more than the whol NTSC color range!!! while an IPS (white led backlit screen ) like the dell i bought screen has a color range of just the sRGB spectrum (as we see here View attachment 101846 )

comparing the NTSC color range with the sRGB range we find out that THEY HAVE A GREAT DIFFERENCE :


if that the case (which my logic sugests it is) then clearly the alienware screen shows a lot more colors than my white led backlit IPS screen does AND THATS WHAT I SEE when i compare the 2 screens side by side

 

Why not just return the U2913WM and get a wide gamut display like the U2713H ( not the U2713H M) or the U3014? Those displays will have colors that 'pop', much like your Alienware's screen.

Unless if you plan to do professional graphics work or something, at the end of the day it's your eyes and your monitor. Why not just get what you like most, regardless of how wrong it is from a objective point of view?

 

The first reason i changed my desktop monitor (i had a cheap but decent LG E2441 24'' white led monitor) is for gaming,
i had bought the oculus rift dev kit hoping to use it in gaming as i play a lot of plane and space sims , BUT the oculus dev kit althought it is a great gadget and the future isnt yet ready for sim gaming, its low res is TOO low to be practical.

SO i sold it and will be geting the comercial HD version when it comes out on 2014. Until then because i play the sims i mentioned i needed a wide field of view screen so i can appreciate more of the horison. Going 3 monitor isnt an option because of the bezels (i hate them) and because i would need 2 titans to keep these 5760x1080 resolutions fluent.

SO i decided to go 2560x1080 . generaly speaking the dell monitor covers my request and is great in giving deep black (better than alienware) and wide view angles (148o) , i just thought that the colors of an IPS panel would be equal to a led rgb backlit screen, but after the searching i did on my previous post IT LOOKS LIKE led rgb backlit monitors have greater range of colors. Thats what i didnt know and just realised.

If there was a 21:9 led rgb backlit IPS monitor (all the great techs in one :thumbsup: ) i would get it but i didnt find one


PS . after searching comparisons of sRGB vs AdobeRGB (its the same as NTSC) i found out that
"Adobe RGB 1998 occupies roughly 40% more volume than sRGB"

so the colors a good IPS panel shows (one with >100% of srgb color range) is just 60% of the colors an Led RGB backllit screen shows...

so Guys my eyes werent telling me lies, there is a clear difference in color range between the Alienware and the Ips dell. I just didnt know all these until i made all this Google searches and made thos thread

 

False. If that's truly is the case then return it, you have a defective product.

Don't confuse capability with what you see. The Dell screens usually come with calibration set.

However, it that's not the case with yours, you'll need to use calibration tools. (which is what you should do anyway with multiple displays.) These will show you the true difference between an IPS and a TN screen: The TN screen is clearly inferior.

 

i respect your opinions but i came to these conclusions with evidence i found on the net.
About the calibration of my dell, the screen is factory calibrated and they also included a printed page mentioning the details of the calibration, time that it hapened, and the results on uniformity of colors and brightness etc.

Back on our subject, show me a link that says that IPS screens have better color gamut than RGB backlit screens.

The pictures (and links-articles ) i found clearly show 2 things

1. My Del IPS panel has a color range (gamut) of slightly >100% sRGB range , it is stated by Dell it self and on varius reviews of my screen.
here is the pic
View attachment 101846

2 Rgb LED backlit TN panels (like the alienware screen) have a color range (gamut) equal to that of NTSC wich in turn is the same as Adobe RGB range. This range as seen on the pic bellow has 40% more color hues than the sRGB color range.
View attachment 101862


So logicaly if you add 1 and 2 the conclution is that RGB LED backlit screens have almost 40% more colors than the dell IPS screen (and the lg 21:9 too as they both use the same LG panel)

do you agree with this conclusion? if not why?




PS. There are IPS screens that offer greater color gamut range like the U2713H (not the U2713HM) and the U3014 as my friend PEON mentioned.

in fact i searched about them and PEON was correct, look at the color range the U2713H has:


the black triangle is the sRGB range (my del IPS has that color range , exactly like the black triangle) and the white is the colors the U2713H delivers... Its a wide gamut AH-IPS panel , and the review of it says

"The U2713H boasts the widest color gamut we've ever come across, proving that Dell's 10-bit PremierColor AH-IPS panel is able to live up to its claims. While this isn't the first professional grade monitor we have tested, no previous entrant has even come close to boasting capabilities like these."

so you see that the above panel wich is specificaly stated by dell as a wide gamut panel gives colors similar to the alienware RGB LED backlit screen.


THE SAME AH -IPS panel is used in the other model PEON mentioned , the Dell U014 PREMIERCOLOR monitor!

in its review look what i found!!!


ITS COLOR RANGE IS THE SAME AS Adobe RGB range which in turn is the same as the Alienware RGB LED screen!!!

compare this range with the sRGB range that my 21:9 dell screen
and you get this difference!


So with evidence when i was talking that The alienware RGB LED wide gamut screen (as do the Dell AH-IPS screens - models U2713H and U3014 ) have 40% more colors than the 21:9 IPS dell panel i got i was correct.


Sadly the only panels with 21:9 dimentions currently are the ones using LGs IPS panel , Dells UltraSharp U2913WM (my one) , LG's LG IPS Monitor 29EA93 and even Q2963PM-AOC they all use LG's SImple IPS panel with a color gamut of just sRGB


SO conclution is that screens with simple IPS panels are great in blacks and wide angles But their colors are better than JUST the simple TN panels who usually have 70% coverage of the sRGB spectrum (while IPS panels have 100%)

BUT newer AH-IPS panels called wide gamut give color range of adobeRGB range , which is 40% more colors than sRGB range (and simple IPS panels)

FInally the ALienwares LED rgb backlit screen (also called wide gamut) ALTHOUGH a TN panel with all its cons and pros (cons: not great black , not great viewing angles - pros very fast switching time of 2ms compares to 8ms of the IPS screens) HAS A COLOR RANGE EXACTLY like the one the newer AH-IPS panels give which is 99%-100+% of adobe RGB range



Few... i couldt explain it better and simpler...

so what do you think? from all these i understood that the if i want a 21:9 monitor there is not one out there with a AH-IPS panel which would give me adobeRGB colors (like the alienware screen does) and thats because all of them use a simple IPS not AH-IPS) LG panel

 

Good looking is pretty subjective. Personally I love gaming on wide gamut as well. Though for video and most photo, srgb is the standard. (sad but nothing we can do about it)

Calibration and profile will not fix the difference unless you are in a color managed "environment" (software) viewing tagged source.

 

No. And neither should you. Granted there are good TN panels and poor IPS panel but that does not dismiss the fact that color accuracy and quality are better. When you move you don't want a color shift. The is much less reduced with IPS panels. You also get 10 bit which is significantly more color values than the typical 8 bit of TN.

So whether you notice it or not, and whether you use it or not the IPS panel is notice better than that of TN panels. You likely just haven't pushed yours to the limit where the differences begin to show. The good news is that most users don't.

That's one way to look at it. But it like saying that a Lexus traveling at 60 mph on the highway won't get you to your destination any faster than a Toyota Corolla traveling at that speed. Therefore, they're the same.

That's enough?

I think you'd have a fine career in marketing. Nevertheless you're technically accuracy still comes up essentially short.

 

OH and by the way, i just finished reading the technology these new AH-IPS (Advanced Performance IPS) panels use.... (Ps. these panels are made by LG too)

you wont beleive what it actually is!! LOL :thumbsup:

ITS an IPS panel WITH RGB LED BACKLIGHT!!!! LOL!!!! (actually its an even smarter technology than alienwares RGB LED one, it uses 2 leds, one blu and one green and infront of them it has red phosphore, so in practice its like having 3 leds, Red Green Blue (alienwares screen) BUT only having 2

The results in colors are the same neverthe les


i cant beleive it!!! its the same backlite technology as the Alienware screen BUT with a IPS panel instead of a TN!!!

that is again a evidence that both the alienware LED RGB screen and the new AH-IPS panels all have the same color gamut equal to Adobe RGB range.

 

The 2713h and 3014 is wide gamut not because it use ah-ips but the fact that they use rgb led iirc.

10bit is really niche anyways, you need a pro card, a 10bit monitor, 10bit capable software (the only one come in mind is photoshop period.)

A wide gamut tn can look better than a srgb ips and it is perfectly valid viewpoint imo. All lcd tech have their pro and cons.

 

thats where u are wrong.
My dell 21:9 IPS has just 8bit color.



Also check the above post i did about the AH-IPS technology. its actually IPS panels with RGB LED backlight.

So its a combination of IPS with the backlight technology the alienware screen has.
thats why they both give the same color gamut (adobeRGB)

 

So long as you stay within your defined parameters fine. But keep in mind that you're operating within an envelop far below max. As you begin to move past that, the difference will expand exponentially.

It is the TV broadcast standard. But you can go well beyond that in cinema.

In fact, a good calibration will show the difference right away.

 

Exactly!!! :thumbsup: they use IPS panels BUT RGB LED backlight like the alienware screen

i totaly agree with you. thats what i am talking about. On one side we have my old (6 years old) Alienware TN RGB LED screen that amases anyone looking at it because of its colors (40% more than other TN and simple IPS screens) , and on the other side my new 21:9 dell IPS That uses normal white led backlight, ans so givbes just sRgb range ...


CONCERNING colors the aliwnare screen is better... thats what i saw from the first moment i put them side by side and now the facts back this up.

my friend, i dont say that IPS panels arent better. I can see their superiority beleive me, they have better blacks and almost perfect wide angle view.

BUT concerning colors, it looks like the backlight of the panel makes the difference.
Wether it is a TN or IPS, from the moment you put RGB led light on the back it skyrockets the color quality... thats what i am saying


PS. it is a clever trick what LG uses in the AH-IPS panels for backlight.

"The common White-LED backlight systems, despite their name, do not actually use White LED's, but rather they emit a blue light which passes through a yellow phosphor to give a more neutral white and provide the red and green components of the image. With the new GB-LED backlights, rather than using this blue diode + yellow phosphor, the backlights combine green and blue diodes with a red phosphor (i.e. Green-Blue LED = GB-LED). PCMonitors.info has a useful article about The Evolution of LED Backlights which is well worth a read as well. With this new type of LED backlight the screen covers 103% of the NTSC reference, 99% of the Adobe RGB reference and 100% (and beyond) of the sRGB space. The screen is of course classified as a wide gamut display and the colour space coverage is actually ever so slightly more than the old U3011 with a WCG-CCFL unit (which has 102% NTSC and 98% Adobe RGB coverage). We expect to see this type of backlight adopted more widely during 2013."

 

Right, let s find a blu ray that is not bt 709.

And what is the "difference" we talking about?

 

I'm late at the party, but I'll give my two cents The back-light makes the difference between normal and wide-gamut display. In the CCFL era High/Wide Color Gamut (HCG) displays were sporting 2 or more lamps, where the "normal" ones were using only one. Now, with the LED back-lights, WLED mostly stands for washed colors, and you have to look at RGB, BG-R and etc. displays if you want colors. The only (stand alone) display I know to sport IPS and RGB LED is HP LP2480zx, shortly DreamColor, which covers pretty much every color space you might want, and 97% of DCI-P3. So yeah, it's the back-light. And no, IPS is not always superior technology, otherwise things like IPS-glow wouldn't be so "popular". Don't get me wrong, I'm all-in for 120Hz 5ms IGZO AH/P-IPS RGB LED displays, but they would be rather expensive now, wouldn't they... and mouthful on top of it

 

Yes, its reduced to that for mass distribution but content creators have a much higher standard. Which is why I stated TV standard and mentioned cinema.

The 10 bit difference for one. But just so there's no further misunderstanding here: yes, its all reduced to 8 bit.

 

IPS glow can be solved by an A-TW polarizer. Better examples of IPS's downsides might be the relatively low contrast ratio (compared to *VA) or the relatively high response time (compared to TN).

 

What is interesting for me is the fact that normal ips panels have just standard srgb color gamut.

 

It's because the cheap ones use WLED backlight which limits them to sRGB. I don't know what you mean by "normal."

 

thats what i mean by normal., the ones that use WhiteLEDs for backlit.


the AH-IPS use the Green Blue LED - red phosphore technology and deliver a wide gamut

 

Wide gamut is not always a good thing...

Don't forget that it takes a lot of specialist knowledge (a good deal of which has been covered in this thread) and a lot of work to get an AdobeRGB display looking right. And even then you're going to come across the occasional non color managed program that's just going to look very off. On the other hand, with SRGB everything works right out of the box - no headaches, no fuss.

As a result, SRGB is actually a desirable feature for the vast majority of people, not a shortcoming.

 

occasional?
I think you mean the opposite.

 

Look guys. My alienwares rgb led screen has great colors in windows 7 and also in games. So although I understand that for 10bit color range you need to also have aplications that suport it , I must say that I still see better colirs on my rgb led screen even in games