Sound Card: Worth it or not?

I'm planning to get a Creative Sound Blaster X-fi go USB sound card.. Is it worth it? Will it help in improving the audio from my speakers or will it only improve it from my headphones? If it does both,i don't mind getting it. I'm asking because i don't as i have nver bought any. Also i don't mind if there's some other suggestion as long as its good and hopefully cheaper.

 

You'll only be able to tell a difference if you're using a high-end set of external speakers or headphones, or if you're going to use a set of surround sound speakers (for the latter, an external sound card is pretty much your only option, as it will give you the required plugs).

 

get a dac instead.

 

could u be more specific? I don't know what a Dac is..

 

Sean,

Just wait till you get your new laptop, play with it for a while then decide if you need to do something else.

The sound blaster card and USB solutions are meant to drive external speakers not the internal speakers of your laptop

 

DAC = Digital to analog converter. This device sendsdigital(music) sends signal to your analog device(speaker or headphone). It is used on just about every source component such as CD player, sound card, and so on.

You need to specify exactly what you're planning to do. What kind of speakers and headphones you have. Are you going to focus on games or intensive music listening?

 

ok then.. I focusing on gaming but i'll be using speakers most of the times and sometimes headphones.. i do listen to music sometimes too.. i think i'll wait.. but could u suggest me which DAC to get.

Thanks
Seam473

 

I use Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 with a Edifier 550D 2.1 system. It gives my speakers a new meaning when it comes to sound and am very happy with it. The only problm is finding good drivers from Win 7 64 Bit, since the card is so old.

The mic in gives crystal clear mic sound, even with a cheap mic. So the sound quality is just awesome.

 

^^ This.

If you do not have a set of high-end headphones or speakers, then any sound card or DAC (digital-to-analog converter) is going to be a waste of money. Simple rule is: if you don't absolutely know if you have high-end headphones or speakers, and if you don't know WHY they are high-end, then you don't have high-end gear.

 

ok i won't get it... my laptop already has creative EAX 4.0 software which enhances sound a lot in heaphones... now where will i spend some extra cash? umgh...

 

Spend it on some good headphones.

How much do you have in your budget?

 

I recommend good headphones. I am absolutely in love with my Audiotechnica ATH-M50's. Even with my onboard sound the quality is night and day compared to my sony headphones.

Also, that creative software is crap. Almost as crappy as their laptop sound cards, which are a complete joke. Don't waste your money on that crap and don't believe that their software improves sound quality. No software can make it sound better, just different. Yes, it is fun to play with the settings, but that gets old. Ok, maybe I'm a little harsh. Their software isn't crap, it is just crap they way they advertise it as improving sound quality. For better sound you need better hardware, and for that you need to stay away from creative if you are on a laptop. Their only products I can recommend are some of their desktop sound cards, and even then, there are better options.

 

i was gonna x-fi go usb soundcard until i found out it was more of a software solution; ie a bunch of programs that equalize and enhance sound, rather than a true hardware soundcard. it even eats up a few cpu cycles itself.
this was from around q4 last when i got my laptop, so things may have changed by now...

 

I've got a pair of sony headphones which are good enough.. might spend the spare money on some games

 

What headphones? I know you think they are good enough, but they probably don't even compare to good ones, like what happened with me. If you try out some better headphones they will no longer be good enough.

 

lol i'm short of cash.. i'll save it .. the sony ones were a huge improvement and bought them a few months ago.. i'll buy new ones next year.

 

There's no such thing as "extra cash" - don't blow money on pointless stuff you don't need, spend money on things you will use and have a good purpose for.

 

I'm accepting donations

 

ughh so am i... got 21000 quid to pay this year for uni...

 

I don't think it's worth it anymore. The new integrated audio cards are good.

Invest in a good set of speakers and/or headphones instead.

 

My opinion as well.

Most if not all of those usb sound cards are trash anyways and no better or worse quality than what you get on your motherboard these days.

The only reason to get one is if you need the interface it can offer (optical out, 5.1/7.1 analog out etc)

Even still there are specialized products out there that will do a better job of it.

 

I agree that first one should buy a quality pair of $100+ headphones to get the most out of what they already have. But a USB DAC can be way up there in terms of sound quality. If you find the audio chip on your motherboard and look up the datasheet, you can see for yourself how it doesn't compare with more high end chips you will find in a quality USB DAC. Also the supporting circuitry and components are not optimized for sound quality, but to be simple, cheap, and take up little space. Open to the rest of the laptop, it is susceptible to interference, even if the interference isn't itself obvious to the listener.

 

A good set of speakers or headphones would def. need a good source.
There are many decent USB dac's out there that can be had for less than $300 and yield amazing results. Notably AMB y2 & Audinst hud mx-1. You would certainly want nice speakers/headphones /w these.

 

The NuForce Udac should be like $99 or les if you can find it and supposed to be very close to the MX-1 in quality and has enough power to drive 800ohm cans from USB power only. Best of all its like 4x smaller perfect for laptops.

The new Udac-2 is going for $130.00 and has some improvements making it worth the extra $30.00 (beter amp and rate increased from 16/44.1 to 24/96)

Those are my recommendations.

 

Just so happens NuForce has the first gen Udac in stock for $75.00 (refurbished) red & black.

NuForce Icon uDAC [Refurbished] - Nuforce, Inc.

This would be the perfect place to start exploring some higher end sound with a laptop without investing too much up front. It will allow you to power headphones with high impedance without problems as well if you have a pair.

 

Meaning I wouldn't need to invest in an amp if I decided to buy some Sennheiser HD 650's?

 

You can get away without an amp on any pair of headphones you buy, including high-impedance onces like the Sennheiser HD650's. Getting a dedicated headphone amp for headphones like the HD650's will always get you better sound quality out of them.

It looks like the NuForce uDAC has a decent enough built-in amplificiation to put off that purchase for a bit. It certainly will not perform as well as a dedicated headphone amp, but it should be just fine for you if you are on a budget.

 

This thread has actually pushed me to get a NuForce uDAC-2, should be here next week and I will do a in-depth review.


Reviews I have read are saying it can power high ohm headphones without issues (about 300ohm or so) but if your up to the 600ohm range the earlier mentioned MX-1 would make a better choice since it has a separate power source for those kind of headphones.

The HD650 are actually 300ohm so thats perfect, I say that 300ohm will NOT work directly with the laptop without a amp, the volume will be very low or the sound will be incredibly distorted/flat/muddy.

 

I look forward to seeing your review, The Nuforce looks like a pretty nice product. If your bold enough to take it apart I would be very interested to know who's DAC they use in their design. I know TI and AD make some really nice parts.

 

Nuforce is all right if you can buy one for $75, but it is nowhere near MX-1 or gamma. It's mean to be used as portable(USB as its power source), and that's about it. Its headphone out is worse than a cmoy and it's not much of a DAC either.. After having all three of them, the MX-1 is probably the absolute lowest dac/amp combo I would use on my desktop. I don't know about the Nuforce 2, but isn't this same as the original except the tenor usb chip?

 

uDAC & uDAC-2 both have nothing but good things said about them on head-fi.org so I trust in it. But you pretty much answered your own statement within the context "with my desktop" "used as portable"

As this thread is about laptop sound cards, and this is a laptop forum we are talking about laptop accessories not desktop ones, and I plan to use the uDAC-2 with my laptop and keep it in my laptop bag, not use it with my desktop. I have a full fledged home theater system/amp hooked to my desktop with a X-FI Xtreme Music as my DAC with modified opamps.

Desktops have some good sound cards out there that are equal or better than entry level DACS, laptops however really do not.

As for changes I do believe the uDAC-2 has quite a few changes too it, cant tell you what DAC is used as the chips are covered with a logo (I already saw pictures of it taken apart on head-fi.org)

My plans here are to evaluate the uDAC-2 as an advanced user for laptop use, it is almost 3.5x smaller than the MX-1 it really is going for portability and that is the key here (and the lower price is nice too)

 

Actually the opinions regarding the udac are split on head fi. I was one of the first to try it when it came out. I failed to mention that the MX-1 and gamma are only a bit bigger than the udac and still outperform the udac by far. These are all "portable" dacs imo. I carry my mx-1 with me in my back pack all the time and I have no problem with it. The gamma is probably the best dac in its size and price range. It comes very close to my stello da100 sig which costs $1k. Read mike's review at headfonia. He has a good review of the udac performing against the mx-1, I believe. His reviews are usually very accurate and knows his hardware.

 

MX-1 looks almost 3x larger in the comparison pictures I have seen. Yet you say its only a bit bigger?

3x larger = "only a bit"

Its statements like that witch are making it hard to take anything else you say as fully truthful, seems like you have a strong bias getting in the way of what you say or like to exaggerat in what you say.

Here is a picture from a review on headphonia with the udac on top and the MX-1 in at the bottom.



and again



Im sorry thats not something I want to be a permanent item in my backpack (plus dont forget the AC/DC adapter) I only have basically a pocket open for the uDAC plus unless I have headphones in the 300+ohm range I see no reason to go for the MX-1.


One thing I notice seems to be left out of the equation a lot in the audiophile forums is a review importance based on price vs performance. The CAL Gamma is no longer available but was MSRP $195.00 ... Price vs performance is a strong point I always make in my reviews so assuming you had a Gamma for $195 it would need to be 2x better than the uDAC to keep in the running. Again this is the uDAC-2 though its supposed to be much improved so you may be pleasantly surprised at how it performs now.

I am looking at the uDAC-2 as a super portable, affordable, great price vs performance product. I know very well there are better and larger devices out there, the limit is nothing more than your budget, but also in the case of on the go laptop gamers and users the limit is also our bag space (if it wasn't id be taking my entire entertainment system with me everywhere I go)

I am not tying to be a audiophile impostor, I am definitely not what would be classified as a true audiophile so I am not trying to invalidate anything you say by means of superior knowledge. But also most of our forum members are not true audiophiles and if they were they would be on headphonia and head-fi not here asking about external sound cards. I dont own thousands of dollars of high end audio equipment (well actually I do but not as much as others) but I am a great neutral analytical reviewer and capable of giving a product a fair view and understanding its strong points as well as weak points. Look forward to the review and hope it can help some people on the forums looking for a product like this. I definitely think its a better idea than the more common purchase of an external sound card for laptop use.

 

Yes, I am aware of those pictures. The angle makes the MX-1 looks bigger than it really is compared to the udac. The bottom always looks bigger. Remember, I'm the one who pointed headfonia.

I will repeat once more. The size difference isn't that huge. The MX-1 DOES not require ac/dc adapter, although the external adapter makes it sound a lot better(closely comparable to gamma, but not equal). It can be powered by USB just like the udac and outperforms the udac in every aspect. After reading about the udac2 I doubt it's all that improved. They used the tenor chip for a higher sampling rate while the amp section still remains weak(but at least it's there whereas the gamma does not). I guess it is a useful device when you are on the go. I loved it with my ipad, but it's been replaced with the mx-1 and I couldn't be happier.

My conclusion to those in the market for a new dac/soundcard: The udac is a wonderful device for your laptop. Definitely blows the built in soundcard out of the water, and the added head amp function is a major plus. The Audinst MX-1 is about $$50 more than the udac 2 and while there's a clear gap of performance between them, it's bigger than the udac so choose wisely based on what you really need.

 

Fair enough

I have enough stuff in my bag already and none of my stuff is high impedance so the uDAC-2 makes sense to me.

P.S. I know the AC/DC adapter is not required for the MX-1, only if you need the extra power to drive high impedance headphones, but if I had it I would pack the adapter with it even if I did not plan to use it, just how I am.

 

Just a friendly update.

Had the uDAC-2 in my possession for the last few days and have been obsessed with testing it.

Many hours of music, some movies and even games.

I started with a comparison to my desktops X-Fi Xtreme Music card and today finally got to sit down with my laptop and compare to the G73 with the Realtek HD onboard.

In my desktop comparison the uDAC-2 came out ahead but marginally, you could even call it subjective. Today however against the laptops onboard it was a very clear night and day difference and I do not think any creature with ears could prefer the quality of the Realtek HD chip.

In music the laptops onboard had much more bass and it was not the good kind if was muddy and overbearing, and the mids and highs just seemed to be pulled away.

Even in music that focus's on mostly bass notes it still did not sound better than the uDAC-2 since it was clear and crisp and still delivered the bass the track was producing.

In movies you hear a lot more of the sound effects and clarity.

I had to test that Jurassic Park scene with the T-Rex and while I was testing for how the bass was delivered on the "stomp" it actually gave me a more clear perception of the difference with the sound of the rain.

The Realtek HD it sounded like you walked outside in the rain and put your hands over your hears, it was all muffled and drowned out. On the uDAC-2 it sounded like you were really there in the rain.

The unit is smaller than my mouse, and matches the color of the G73 perfectly so its is indeed a very happy mate for my laptop.

I have more testing to run and a photoshoot to take and will post up a full review here shortly @ NBR.

 

With all this audiofile information I dont supose a good explanation for amp vs dac could help me understand what Im looking for to pair up with my laptop?

 

A DAC is just the converter it converts the digital sound (information) to analog sound (music)

DAC is an acronym for Digital to Analog Converter

A DAC alone cant power any speakers or headphones it just creates the signal (called line level)



Think about the line out of your TV or Playstation or some other device, if you plug speakers into it even though there is a audio signal there there is no power or volume control for line out.

So what must be done is that signal is fed to an AMP and its what actually takes that signal, and adds power and volume control to power your speakers/headphones/whatever.

Many DACs are combo DAC/AMP in one like the uDAC is, but there are some that are not so just be sure to know what you need and what your getting before you buy.

 

One thing to remember about the uDAC though, it's limited to 2 channels. That's fine if you're listening to music, but if you're watching Bluray or listening to SACD, it downmixes everything.

I would probably go with the Audinst HUD-MX1 myself, it's so versatile for the price.

 

The Audinst is also limited to 2 channels. However, I believe MS's W7 service pack will fix this problem.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant, it's not intrinsically limited like the uDAC. Plus, it has a lot of extra features going for it, USB>SPDIF, amp, etc...

 

Good sound cards benefit from Good SPEAKERS. For ear plugs...nope, you can't tell the big difference unless you are also using a high-end earphones.

 

Are you saying IEMs dont give the same quality as headphones?

Thats so not true.

My Triple.Fi 10 Pro's are higher quality than my Audio Technica A700's

 

Your opinion just lost all credibility.

 

lol stole my line!

 

Internal speakers won't be affected - only external ones via the 3,5mm plug - sound quality over an internal card may improve, but it may stay the same.
It also needs some CPU load apparently - I've never noticed it though.

 

"Ear plugs"... you need to distinguish between "earbuds" which are rubbish and "in ear monitors" (IEMs) which will - especially in the higher models - offer very high quality sound output.

In fact, once you get into the realms of high end headphones you might actually need an amplifier as they could be a bit quiet on something like a normal laptop soundcard.

 

Haha, I did too. I thought it sounded familiar. I can't remember which thread it was in though...I must be getting old.

 

How do these DAC/amps compare to my Expresscard 54 Creative x-fi Xtreme audio (it's the discontinued version)? I'm using it with a Triple Fi 10.

Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook Laptop Card BN - eBay (item 200468594704 end time Oct-30-10 20:32:37 PDT)

 

Id say there is no consumer market sound card that can touch upon the quality of a decent DAC.

They are not even really competing in the same market segment.

I just got that NuForce uDAC2 and it was soooooo much better than the onboard sound on the G73 witch uses Creatives chip, and it was even a bit better than my X-fi Extreme Music on my desktop witch is one of the higher end SQ cards esp with a few mods.

There is no way that little card can possibly have the components needed for a decent amp either. Thats again the plus of these DAC's is that many of them have a built in headphone amplifier.