Suggestions for MP3 / portable media player

Hi guys!

I am looking for a new mp3 player and i'm finding it hard to cut through all the crap and fanboyism on a lot of the review sites. If you could give me some suggetions that would be great.

a couple of pointers for what i'm looking for.

- sound quality is the most important factor here. I know none of them is going to be superb as it'll always be mp3 or something but i want it to sound as good as it gets.
- 32gb is more than enough. I don't care if i can put millions of tracks on it.
- Video playback is a bonus, not necessary but would be nice.
- Pictures is wanted more....a nice display is a very welcome feature.
- decent battery life

sooooo.....ideas?

thanks

 

I'd suggest nothing other than the Cowon S9. Its got everything you want and more. A good site for reviews is www.anythingbutipod.com

 

The Cowon S9 seems as a really good MP3. It's a little expensive but if that wont be a problem for you, you should consider buying it.
The MP3 has 2 days battery life... you can read a review of the Cowon S9 here.

 

The S9 was the first player that occurred to me too. An alternative might be the Sony X series, or if you could live with 16 gig, the Sony S series and Samsungs are almost as good and a lot cheaper.

Don't forget to budget for some decent headphones!

 

Hey LPTP-LVR,

I'll give you some suggestions without the fanboy bias you loathe. Believe me, I was also searching for the best mp3/pmp to suit my needs 2 months ago and have experienced that problem as I was searching for reviews.

Anyways, for a brief background, I have never purchased any Apple products as they are too overrated and are really not for audiophiles. I'm not quite sure of the newly released iPod nanos, but I try to avoid their product line as you can get more value-for-money products without the branding and lack of features.

For starters, I have owned two Creative products and I can fully recommend their mp3 players. I was using their first Creative Zen 20GB (Greyscale) and also the excellent Zen Vision: M 32GB. All I can say is that I was satisfied with both, but they were both unusable as of this year (used the Zen 20GB for 4 years and the Zen Vision M for 3 years). Sound quality was better than the iPod (I compared them to my brother's iPOD nano 4th Gen) as there was EQ adjusting if necessary. Features were also excellent with on-board features that you would normally spend more for with an iPod (like radio). Image viewing is excellent and multiple file formats are accepted for both video and audio (for the ZVM).

However, I thought Creative was dying and I wasn't satisfied with the lifespan of their products (due to hardware), so I didn't purchase another Creative. Instead, I purchased a Cowon D2+ 2 months ago. However, as of this year, they are releasing 2 new mp3/PMP players which you may want to consider (one is the Zii Egg which won't be out until 2010).

Given that, here are my suggestions:

Creatve X-FI 2

-In my opinion, the best features for this are touchscreen capability, SD-card integration into the library (which was not present in previous Creative products), FLAC support, A/V output support, and of course, the Creative-licensed X-Fi feature which is now adjustable.

-Given these features, I think this is a great option since you're prioritizing sound. Battery life is claimed to be 25hours for Audio and 5 hours for Video, but in actual usage, you'd probably get around 25-30% less than that (as I experienced with the ZVM)

-For mid-ranged space, you can probably get the 16GB model which is available for pre-order at Amazon for $180.



Cowon D2+

-I purchased this from B&H Pro Audio 2 months ago and I am very impressed. The sound quality is the best sound I have heard coming from a portable player (and I listen to all genres of music except rap, R&B, techno, and most music on MTV). It has all sorts of sound enhancements you can adjust including 3D Surround, Mach3Bass, BBE, and of course, basic EQ (I rarely use EQ). It sounds perfect coupled with some in-ear earphones like the Creative EP-630 which I use.

-The battery life is also very impressive. The D2+ doesn't come with a wall charger so I charge it via USB on my notebook. The device lasted me one whole week (moderate listening around 3-4 hours a day) without having to charge. Keep in mind though that using an SD-card lessens battery life. Cowon quotes over 50 hours of audio, but most people get around 40.

-For memory, the maximum memory for the D2+ is 16GB, but I bought another 16GB SDHC, so mine is 32GB total, and the SD card integrates flawlessly into the flash library.

-However, keep in mind that Cowon devices are not as easy-to-use as Creative or Apple products. You're going to need to tinker around with the firmware versions to maximize the features of this device.



Aside from these options, you can checkout other players on Anything but iPod. I'm not an iPod hater, it's just that I find there are other mp3 player brands that give you more value for your money.

Hope it helps...

By the way, I'm not sure if mp3 players are notebook "accesories," and I was thinking this thread would be more suited for OT. But if admin is ok with it, then it's cool...

 

Do you know if the X-Fi 2 is PlayForSure compatable? I have Rhapsody subscription (bleh), and would like to be able to use it. Also, it still has radio, right? Anyway, I have a ZVM, and mine is still going strong, though I never did use it for video. I remember X-Fi coming out on sound cards around the time I got my ZVM and being bummed I couldn't get the feature on a portable player. It would be awesome to get a player that works with PFS/Rhapsody, has radio, AND has X-Fi. After my experience with my ZVM, I'd be quite happy with another Creative product.

 

Hey sirmetman,

Its predecessor, the Creative X-fi was supposedly compatible with PlaysForSure and worked well with Rhapsody. You can refer to the Lab tests at PCworld and this Creative knolwedge-base site. So I don't see how the X-Fi 2 could be any different .

According to the Official Press Release of the X-Fi 2, it is confirmed that it will have radio.

By the way, how long have you had your ZVM? I was really satisfied with mine, but it only lasted 3 years and I didn't trust the refurb models Creative was selling, and people on Ebay sell brand new ones for way too expensive prices.

 

I'd go with the Zune HD. All of the features you wanted with a great music service (IMHO).
I like the Zune because of the subscription ($15, download as much as you want plus 10 drm-free downloads each month). Makes it convenient to download bands you aren't sure of without having to by anything. Plus with the new playlist features they've added, the Zune software can create a playlist of music recommendations for you which you can just stream without having to download the music.

I've been pretty happy with it so far.

 

Thx for all the tips guys!

They are pretty much spot on as well
The Cowon S9 sounds really good, it seems to be a bit pricey here in the EU though. The X-fi2 with 16gb could be the way to go, it should be enough space i think, it's not like i want to put all music i have on it (that would be over 300gb)
I might even wait for that Zii Egg....what the hell is a StemCell computer anyway!?!?! Seems stemcell research is giving results pretty fast huh?
But the Zii Egg is a Cowson product?

thanks for all the ideas guys!

oh yeah...zune hd isn't really an option here

 

Zune HD is proprietary, you have to hack it to use as an external storage device. Besides, there are at least 2 or 3 subscription music services that work with other devices, you don't have to go Zune to get sub music.

As to how long I've had my ZVM...uh...I honestly don't remember for sure, heh. Been at least 3 years, I think. Maybe 4. I'd prefer not to get a touch screen model like the X-Fi, but I could deal. It would be nice to have something a touch slimmer though. But yeah, not having radio would be a deal breaker. Thankfully any mid-high end player not from Apple has that these days.

 

I can recommend the S9 myself. Sister got one a few days ago, and the screen is top notch. If it's just a little more than the competition, I'd still take it. Sound is unbeatable, and the screen is amazing too. Feels a bit too light though.

 

By the way, the Zii Egg is not a Cowon product...it's a Creative one.

 

get a cheap mp4 with SDHC reader on ebay and a 32gb SDHC card.

 

Excellent post, although what I quoted was merely an excerpt of your entire post. Suffice to say, I happen to own a Creative Zen Vision: M 60GB MP3 player myself. I have been a staunch supporter of Creative MP3 devices since their original Creative Nomad Jukebox line. Creative's features, options, accessories, and sound quality trump other MP3 players to the last, including the iPod and iTouch.

Simply stated, Creative has been making sound cards and sound devices for a very long time. Their sound solutions/technology are the gold standard by which every other product is compared to. Creative consistently offers the highest sound quality in all their products, including their sound cards and their MP3 players.

With the Zune HD having just been released, I'm sorely tempted to trade out my ZVM and see what the Zune has to offer. The first and second gen Zunes (both of which I purchased and subsequently returned after a week) were nothing short of a train wreck. I really dig touch screens, and I'm getting antsy waiting around for Creative to come up with their own competitive touchscreen music player, although the Zen X-Fi 2 looks promising.

 

Having owned a ZVM and a Zen I will say that the cowon S9, D2, I7, U2, U3, A2, A3, X5, Q5, and O2 pretty much trump them in the whole sound quality thing. And yes, I own all of these DAP's.

That being said, unless your a gamer and want the whole 3d-sound effects then creative isn't really that great of an option, unless your looking for a dirt cheap alternative to your on board sound card, that they can do. If your looking for something truely high quality for music than look elsewhere.

And just remember with the zune your getting ad's on your DAP, thats right, ads on a hand held personal device, pretty absurd if you ask me. Oh that and your getting held back to zune market place, pretty much the same pain that itunes is.

 

I'm sure they don't, but feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Hmm.. Normally I would pull up some RMAA test sheets of a few Cowon's and the Zen... But apparently no one has done an RMAA on the Zen.

So all I can do is tell you what my ears tell me. And well I already said that(read previous post). That being said, I actually really liked the ZVM and it was somewhat ahead of its time on how it handled video and all that. But it just does not sound as good as some of the other players on the market.

 

I have a Sony 1060 - it sounds great to me

32GB storage - (or 29,x I think actual storage)

Noise cancelling if you want - but the supplied earbuds while not bad are beaten black and blue by Sennheiser IE8

 

Well, I could say that the electronics used by Creative in their Zen's are the same ones used in the Cowon's... but I have no way of proving it.

 

Knock yourself out.

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2007/02/cowon-iaudio-d2-disassembled.php

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/03/creative-zen-disassembly.php

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/07/creative-zen-xfi-disassembled.php

But the real thing that makes the cowon's sound better is the jet effects. Other than that most modern DAPs are actually fairly close in sound quality, all of which are much lower than a home system or something you can hook up to your computer.

 

Using Syndromes site, sony X1000 series - gets a goodreview
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2009/06/sony-x1000-review.php

 

You must be joking. That'd be like me saying that the reason Zen's sound so good is the type of plastic used in the construction of the player.

 

Have you ever actually used your ears? And listened to something? Have you A-B tested players such as the Zen, D2, and Sansa clip? Have you done it with the EQ/sound effects and without?

But for the record, Creative does actually use pretty good plastic on the Zen, they tend to hold up really well in that regard.

 

Yes I have. EQ, BBE, SRS actually degrades sound quality. In the case of the latter two you get an increased soundfield, more consumer-friendly tone, etc but an increase in sound quality? No. The roughness introduced to the sound due to the still slightly inadequate DSP implementation (in terms of preserving fidelity: the effects do pretty much what it is intended to achieve from a consumer perspective) is pretty unambiguous to those not equating tonality for quality.

Funny thing is that what you seem to detest in headphones/sets, you love in MP3 players. Be consistent, or be quiet.

It depends on what you mean by sound quality, as pointed out above. If pounding bass does it for you for example, honestly speaking you're better off investing in a pair of bass-heavy phones and making your player choices on features in terms of what you're looking for.

Similarly, if you (like apparently Syndrome) equate the quality-sapping but 'pep-upping' effect of SRS, BBE and the like with sound quality, you may be surprised how judicious choice of decent head/eargear will point out the errors of that to you (unlike apparently Syndrome).

Personally I think the Sony X-series is a good balance of sound quality, control over the sound - if you want to use it on occasion - and general features when considered purely as a media player.

The Cowon S9 is chintzy in comparison, still relatively riddled with bugs and just feels and performs cheaper / fiddlier in use. However it does support more codecs which may be torrent-friendlier. But to say the Cowon has meaningfully better core sound quality than any other player mentioned here smacks of fanboiness.

The Zune, I dunno. Early reviews from a relatively impartial sources say that while the sound quality is decent, the EQ is worse than the iPod Touch - which is a big surprise since the iPod's EQ is pretty bad, but the device's usability seems very high. I need to unload my S9 and X1060 before I look at it though: three very similar players I barely use would be complete overkill.

Personally, my choice in terms of everyday use is the iPhone - it's actually not that great a phone (in terms of pickup / voice quality) but sound quality for music is reasonable, and in terms of usability it is the best of the bunch if all your stuff is properly tagged and my reco in terms of what I would personally be prepared to use every day would be for the Touch, paired with a good pair of phones.

If not and/or you're dead set against one, I'd point people towards the Sony for now.

 

I think so. I have tinnitus in both so it's difficult at times.

 

I don't use any EQ or anything with my home set up, because it is of high enough quality that it sounds awesome without it. But when I step down to a portable rig then it sounds flat, without depth, and un-fun. I'm using the same flac file in both situations, with my Westone ES3X and to me it is MUCH more enjoyable to turn the BBE on, Not high amounts of adjustment but some.

With DAPs like the itouch, zune, and creative zen you don't even have that option, well ok you do but they don't do it nearly as good as a cowon, iriver, or sony does.

And I see what your saying about the DSP degrading the sound on my home rig, and I don't like to use it there. But with the inadequacies of the portable hardware it makes it sound a hell of alot better to my ears, and lets be honest, in the end that is all that matters in the audio world.

And if you notice what I detest in the headsets is that they use cheap useless DAC's that you find in something like say... a creative zen. It just does not work very well. This is of course a USB headset, why would you EVER want to limit your head set to a computer only? Get a universal 3.5mm heaphone jack so you can use it on pretty much any device.

 

depends on what you want to use it for. if music is the ONLY concern, get a sony s series or the wait for the new ones. they offer good value for money.
i own the sony s639f and the ipod touch 2g. i prefer the sony for music. right now, i only use the ipod for browsing, no FM and no custom eq? wth? it's just not a music player, it really is a castrated iphone.

 

Have you thought about the Nokia N800. Two SDHC cards slots(I have 2 32 GB cards in mine), music, video, picture, wi fi, built in stand, removable battery. It was released in 2007 but I like it.

 

I use my BlackBerry storm for my DAP needs. Handles everything nicely...

That said if you wamt the best audio quality, there is nothing, and I mean nothing.. That beats the Sony X series and NW-A series. Good luck getting your hands on an NW-A series. It's very rare especially in the US. There are reviews of it at head-fi as well.

Couple that with a nice portable amp like a LittleDot MK1 and good IEM's and you've got yourself total audiophile bliss.

Even unamped the Sony makes the iPod and most others for that matter sound like utter crap compared.

 

Agreed. The BitHead or even the AirHead by Headroom makes a huge difference in audio quality.

 

The samsung p3 is also nice.

 

Or a Cowon - especially as Creatives fairly consistently measure better than a Cowon. I wasn't talking about home systems. Given that it's also power-limited, how do you think a DSP that has to sip power does?

It's just the inconsistencies in your prejudices and misconceptions across the audio board (from what I've read) that are potentially misleading for people looking to make an informed decision.

 

Wheres your information about how a creative is better than a cowon? I know that most of the cowon's use wolfson chips which pretty much accepted as the best or nearly the best chips in the portable audio market.

 

So? Pretty much all of the major players do or did. Some use other SOACs / codecs but these aren't necessarily inferior in terms of audio.

iPods have used Wolfsons for years on most of their lineup, are they the joint best sounding then? Not according to you. The Cowon S9 however uses basically the same codec as many iPods, and many of the Wolfson codecs used by current and previous iPods outperform the codec used in the D2 in the mode that both are used on. And the codec isn't the whole story.

As I said before - inconsistencies in your prejudices and misconceptions across the audio board. Fanbois are bad enough, but tyre-kicking fanbois are far worse.

 

Why would that be neccessary? Weren't you the one that was basing your opinion on MP3 players solely on what your ears tell you?

Exactly. Wolfson chips or not, it comes down to what sounds best to an individual.

 

Yeah, thats what I'm trying to say to vogelbung. But he's turning around and saying that because I don't like using an EQ on my home system where it isn't required then I shouldn't use it on my DAP where it really does make it sound better.

And I already posted that most all the current DAP's now days sound about the same, but the ZVM is older and does sound inferior. Look up a few RMAA's and you can SEE the difference, not just hear it.

And maybe it is inconsistent, I can tell you that your ears, as well as mine are inconsistent from day to day. I have a few beers and they change during that day. If you don't believe me on that go ask an audiologist, they have a degree saying they can tell you that much.

But I get what your saying vogelbung, your just going to attack whatever I say, even in different threads on different topics. And I say bring it on.

 

Thanx again for the suggestions...and some good heated debate

I kinda agree with Syndrome, on portables a bit of EQ can really help but on my home and studio system it's all about keeping it as flat as possible.
I had a look at the Sony NW-A808 and that might the best choice so far.
I don't need an mp3 player to have wifi, camera, and what not because i have my blackberry for that. I just don't want to use my blackberry for music. One reason is battery life and the other is sound quality. I can get the NW-A808 for 139euro....good price? Or how about the E-series?

 

Do most of those players have radio ?

 

As much as I hate Apple and the cult following, I love the iPod. I have a 30gb Fifth generation iPod video and I've owned it since... late 2006/early 2007. It's been out in the soaking rain, I've dropped it a lot, and it's been very dependable so far.

Just my 2 cents.

 

I know the Sony X series has - and that's their current flagship.

Apples are said to have a bad sound quality - I haven't tried though.

 

Hmm... I'm not too sure about that. I generally listen to 256kbs and up though, and I listen to it generally through my car speakers which are nice.

 

Well the people who label apple sound as bad are the kind of people who buy expensive IEMs.

I originally thought my Logitech speakers were nice - my IEMs beat them pretty clearly.

It may be that you don't notice it due to the speakers and headphones you use.

My IEMs are Sennheiser IE8 ...

 

The ipods i've heard had pretty crappy sound....bit tinny and harsh. I figure that if you hook them up to a car stereo with decent speakers it will improve a lot, remember that you're listening to the car amp more then the ipod itself so that's not really a fair comparison.
I already have decent headphones, several, so that's no problem. The thing i read about the Sony series seem quite good indeed. Their X-series seems a tad expensive though.

Any models still in the race which also have a half decent record function?

 

Depends on what you consider half decent? I know all the cowon's have record feature but the bit rate varies a bit between the different players. And the bit rate changes depending on what your recording(mic, line in, radio)

 

i believe only the new nano has radio.

 

Creatives pretty much all have radio. Actually, as far as I know, other than the cheapo grocery store players, pretty much all PMPs have radio tuners (other than Apples of course).

 

i just picked up a 4gb sansa clip+ for $50 at best buy. the sound quality is great (for any priced mp3 player, not just this price range) and it has a radio that i don't use. it has expandable memory with the micro sd slot. it's an awesome player if you don't need apps or video and is way better than the shuffle i'm replacing.

 

You'll need to ook at the 8*1*8 as the minimum. The '08's were the last of the ATRAC-capable machines and have to use Sonicstage, which is a virulently terrible piece of software.

The issue with 'opinions' like Syndromes is that it's not coming from one person, as it's a mix of what he's read and a far more limited range of actual experience. So there's no firm basis of comparison. So sometimes he talks some sense, and at other times he's talking absolute nonsense. That is the problem.

 

Since when is Sonic Stage horrible software?

I really liked it - sadly my current player only supports MP3s....

Good thing I buy my music as CDs and not "digital only"

 

I *do* hope you're joking. It chokes beyond 8,000 tracks, STILL crashes (not that it's seen any development beyond compatibility for the 808) and is basically a copyright enforcement software masquerading as a media manager. I had to use it until very recently as I was still using the RH1, but it is just a very frustrating, slow piece of badly written cack.