X31 / LITEON -- scissor-switch tech? metal dome?

I have a LITEON desktop keyboard bought way back in the 1980s and it's still going strong.

It's wonderful.
It's responsive.
It's clicky (like high heels tapping on floor).

I also have an X31 Thinkpad, whose keys don't compare to the LITEON but at least they have some substance (unlike the tinkertoys in stores today which barely have any height to each key.

I also happen to like the following Dell desktop keyboard, which I tried out locally:
http://www.bohemianalps.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/xps-keyboard.jpg

Now, I have absolutely no idea whether the above use scissor-switch tech, or metal dome or other tech.

It would help, though, if someone knows what type of tech was used with:
(1) highly durable wonderful LITEON "clicky" keyboards of the 1980s
(2) X31 thinkpads
(3) the above-pictured Dell keyboard

That way, in my search for laptop with decent keyboard, I can specify to sellers, using tech-terminology, what type of keyboard I'm seeking. For that matter, do any of you know which laptop (preferably minimum of 15" or 15.4" screen) also includes the most decent "clicky-feel" keyboard? Does any such exist in a laptop?

 

Liteon were in business in the 80's? I never knew.

Well, any notebook keyboard has a scissor-action keyboard.

I'm quite partial to Keysonic's keyboards. They're an OEM and you can find the same keyboards being sold under various different names. I like the action of these http://www.maxpoint.de/de/products/keyboards.php?pid=1_3_7&we_objectID=1066 and their previous model, the ACK-5000HL, with the Mac version being known as the Macally Icekey - it's a fairly typical decent non-chicklet notebook feel. There's a bit of substance to the 'give' of the keys, and landing is not rock-hard like the form-over-function (as usual) Apples which seem to be really popular right now.

The Dell you linked to has a regular rubber dome action. The multimedia keyboard you linked to has excellent action for a dome keyboard. An alternative with slightly better feel is the Microsoft Reclusa - a substantially weighted keyboard with a monolithic keyboard assembly (i.e. all the keys are fitted into a once-piece frame) which is resistant to 'binding' over time, something that I think many gaming keyboards suffer from.

The actual clicky keyboards are mechanical switched keyboards. There are many still about and I'm sure lots of people can talk about them - I've no real recent experience with them (and I was actually never a fan of the original IBM buckling-spring keyboards).

 

Thanks so much!
So practically speaking..
if I wish to communicate to prospective laptop sellers:

"Does your ABC laptop include an XYZ type of keyboard..
...what terminology do you suggest I substitute for "XYZ"?

Since you say all notebooks are scissor switch, then why are some so insubstantial, while the Thinkpads at least have some substance?
(btw, I'm thinking my LITEON may be metal dome

P.S.
I hate when keys are too close together, or insubstantial.
I like when they each have enough height & are normal like the old days.

But how do I word my needs in the lingo of today's times...

 

Different notebooks manufactures (and even different models) will use keyboards from various manufacturers. Also, the same technology can obviously be applied differently. Thinkpads have traditionally had decent keyboards (at least for the flag ship lines), so thats something that they have build a reputation on and it's not something Lenovo wants to throw away (for now).

By the way even a single Thinkpad model can have identical keyboards from different manufacturers. ^^

At the end of the day keyboards are a personal preference. There is no point in basing it on which technology it uses. Just go and try them out yourself.

 

Often, when people post online asking questions, it's because they don't have access to find things out themselves.

Maybe they don't have a car (I don't).

Maybe they're handicapped.

Maybe they've never actually had access to using any laptop hands-on, except for the thinkpad (such as myself, except it's a refurb. X31 with a few broken keys.

Maybe their closest store is far away and doesn't even offer all the stuff that's sold on the www, for them to be able to try out.

Do you know how much I'd longingly see all the young people around me at a local college all using laptops, and wishing I could ask them:
"please, can I try typing for just a few seconds on your laptop so I can see if I find it comfortable?"

I'm like a blind person who can't see. A blind person needs stuff described to them in the most clarifying way by those who have the luxury of eyesight they take for granted.

Similarly, I'm groping in the dark to find out which keyboards are best.
Only Thinkpads?
After all, my X31 isn't even as superior as my "clicky" LITEON.

But still, Thinkpads are supposed to be the cadillac of keyboards.
Or are there any other makers which offer 1/2 way decent ones?
Not just IBM/Lenovo?
I'm speaking of keyboards where the keys have some height.

Much of the time I feel like screaming in agony non-stop because my tech-torture is NEVER resolved.
My type of questions are NEVER resolved.

I'm still in the dark re: keyboards.
I'm still in the dark re: my need for non-overpowering, non-dizzying, non-eye-killing LCDs (as per my recent Q elsewhere on notebookreview.

Why aren't there dedicated reviews on the entire www for:
(1) people who are seeking decent keyboards,
(2) and for photo/chemical sensitives who are seeking tolerable LCDs that have the least epoxy emissions and don't leave us feeling drained?

For many years already I've been desperate to get this info answered (I probably surfed over 100 hours hoping for tidbits of info), but NOT ONE REVIEWER OF COMPUTERS considers such issues "important" enough. I might as well be dead, because as far as the dominant majority are concerned ESPECIALLY TECHIES HIGH UP THERE WITH LOADS OF EXPERIENCE ON VARIOUS SYSTEMS my issues may as well not exist. It's similar to shoe manufacturers, because as far as most of them are concerned, people with size 5 shoes may as well not exist, and ditto to those who place things high up on supermarkets shelves, beyond my access. I'm frustrated every which way I turn.

Most of all, I'm frustrated by the zillion ubiquitous troll-types, who usually respond something like:

Duh??

P.S. If anything, the above is an understatement, because I've even gone so far as to long ago create a freewebs website, with computer-monitor pain survey (pen-name "monitorp"), hoping enough people would participate in the survey to get a clear picture of which computers are most tolerable. But it was all for nothing. I wasted endless hours creating that site & survey.

 

Well I apologise if you took my post the wrong way. It was by no means intended to trigger such a hostile response. I am sure most of the people I have helped on the forum will reflect that. If you have an issue with my post above, you can contact me via private messaging.

Johnny T

 

That would be weird. I might let you though, because I'm a wrinkly.

So you've probably established to yourself that you like mechanical keyboards of the old-desktop-style IBM buckling-spring type. I've previously said that all notebook keyboards are scissor-action. The two are not the same.

So you are best off looking for recommendations specifically in terms of buckling-spring keyboards.

Having said that, I note the X31 is a seven-year-old notebook. As someone who considers a three-year-old-machine completely unusable I have no idea how much notebook keyboards would degrade during that time with presumably relatively heavy use. But I would imagine they must. Perhaps you can go to a local computer shop and try some current machines out, instead of creeping out the kids, eh?

Probably because you didn't ask them right.

Instead of obtusely asking for 'best' of anything, you list out your requirements as well as any qualifying conditions e.g. your photosensitivity. See this post vs asking for 'best ultraportable'. The latter would have got multiple posts on machines which I wouldn't be interested in. The much more focused post which targets exactly what I am after has... er, no replies.

This is discussed ad nauseum here. You might find the Google Search on here however a bit limiting. Try this: http://forum.notebookreview.com/search.php

Because the issue of monitors suitable for photosensitives is more about HOW you deploy the monitor, and not specifically about the monitor itself - although a decent quality panel would certainly help. External monitors would of course afford much more control over the image. As for epoxy emissions after manufacture - well, we're in the 'mobile phones damage my brain' arena. Ask on tftcentral.co.uk or something.

 

@Judy Smith:

What Johnny T said about manufacturers using different keyboard is true.

As most laptop makers just want to make stuff that people buy would with little care for quality, details like keyboard are of the least importance (that, and a whole other things, for example since they figured out that most users would not complain about 16:9 monitors, they first abandoned 4:3 then 16:10 is also getting the axe, ignoring programmers like me and people who deal with a lot of text).

Programmers/Admins/Editors/etc deal with a lot of coding/typing and thus care about the keyboard a lot, since Thinkpad mainly caters to these people, they put decent keyboards even if they are going to cost more (something that many laptop makers do big sacrifices for).

But even Thinkpad laptops - as Johnny T pointed out - use different keyboards (more info here: forum.thinkpads.com • View topic - T60 Keyboard Comparison (with embedded pics) ). It depends on the batch you purchase. Some of the people who were very picky with the keyboards, got it replaced or even ordered them.

As far as I know, virtually every notebook keyboard uses the scissor keys plus membrane dome combo (And I have hands on experience with a lot of them) and none of them feel the same, from pretty bad ones to good ones all used the same technology, it boils down to the supplier of the keyboard. So you can't really judge them by the technology, it boils down to what you like and how it has been implemented by a partcular laptop maker.

NotebookReview reviews often say the feel of the keyboard, and our reviewers usually have a lot of experience so it's a more generalized account. You can make your choice based on the review, but be warned that the reviewer might have gotten a keyboard from a different batch (some companies actually make the sleazy act of giving high quality review models to the reviewers and use more inferior parts for what they would sell)

If you are pleased with your laptop keyboard, you can open it or use software means to find out what is the manufacturer. There is a lot of info about that on our forum as well as the rest of the internet, then you would have better leads tracking down what you want to get (one option is getting a Thinkpad and then have the keyboard replaced with the model you desire, I think there is not a lot of quality difference over time from the same keyboard maker)

And lastly, I know Johnny T personally and he did not mean any offence with that post. Not only he is very knowledgeable in the area of laptops, he is very helpful with trying to help out people with their choice.

P.S.: I dug out the monitor-strain related websites you made as well as your survey, that is a very bad issue to be hit with. A friend of mine who was a very active computer geek had suffered permanent eye damage from a very bad monitor (an old time Goldstar if I am not mistaken). What he had to do was using UV glasses (the kind that skiers use) both in sunlight as well as when using computers.

 

Hi, to followup, firstly, the maxpoint link took way too long (i'm on dialup, you can't imagine what i'm dealing with here!

do any of you by some miracle, know which model:
15" or 15.4" Thinkpads or Latitudes, Toughbook, or Travelmates
offer the same type of feel in keyboard that the Dell keyboard in my original link offers?
Is the T30's keyboard similar (i understnad from past extensive research, that the T30 keyboards were made in Taiwan unlike others which were complained of as "mushy".

Uh, regarding my "histrionics" I do apologize if it was construed as hostility.
What I've found ever since inception of the Net, is that for some reason, expressions of emotion & frustration (due to one's plight), oh yes, let's also not forget UPPERCASE characters, are for some unfathomable reason, considered hostility. Are expressions of angst totally taboo anymore?

Please understand I'm on a perpetual hot tin roof!
i'm on dialup (never had the luxury of broadband yet, but I can't even begin to make a stab at getting dry-loop DSL until I'm set up with a system,
.. thus i'm in Catch22.

Furthemore, It usually takes about 3 min. minimum for notebookreview's board to display per each reload.
To boot, I'm on these cranking old computer systems.
To boot, I worked hard in past, trying to self-help (mujtaba noted how i tried to find things out by creating a survey).
All that took a huge toll, and still, i've remained running in place like so many other guinea pigs cranked out by sadistic computer CEOs such as Dell et. al..
Guinea pigs like Mujtaba's buddy, and still others who as yet haven't a clue why they're feeling so drained.

in case you're interested, i'm typing this very moment on my very awkward, broken, 12-inch, x31, which is why my typing sucks. My screenview is 1/2 a screen wide, because now these humongous monstrous websites are biased to huge screens which cater to the majority of 6-foot 11" people who can probably drink ethyl alcohol straight, and scalding water straight too.

Again, thanks for all the info, Vogelbung & Johnny.

After all's said & done, what I've gleaned is that there's no concrete answers, because the heads of companies are all a huge bunch of con-men trying to cut corners, same as governments all of whom calculatedly couch their sales pitches in mumbo jumbo terms.

I'd like nothing better than to demand of CEOs:

Which laptops do you offer which feature:
metal dome keyboards
and with ONLY ONE THIN ccfl tube for backlighting
and totally outgassed of all chemicals
But of course, the narcissists of the world could care less about all this. Because that would actually be humane.

BTW, mujtaba, firstly, I'm inhaling these perpetual chemical fumes from the X31. I've no idea if ALL older thinkpads emit this horrible smell which irritates my lungs?
also, you mentioned UV glasses. Well.. I've been using doctor prescribed SolarShield sunglasses, but nothing would truly help except rigging up a projector, as was done by 2 posters on my board. One of them also mentioned, btw, that Sony Trinitron is the absolute best. I'd seen someone else say that too, as well as that those old-fashioned military heavily shielded monitors with thick screens (and containing lead, therefore ridiculously made illegal by government & forced to be discarded), are tops.

So what do the Trinitron & the shielded/military monitors have in common? that's the big mystery to this day.

I'd been holding out for such time that LG projector might be availalble in US, since it's LED & lasts much longer. The posters on my board had used Samsung LED projectors, but on principle I won't touch Samsung anymore (for reasons beyond scope of this post - suffice i consider them criminal). But in any case, I've no experience with projectors, nor much room, due to my home's setup. Long story.

 

No, I just think it's the way you write to be honest. You come off as a bit unhinged.

And with that, I'm out of the thread. Hope you find what you're looking for!

 

So, I suppose that whoever is "unhinged" due to various limitations & stresses (like, maybe they just lived through the Tsunami?) isn't entitled to a response to:

or a comment re:

Or re:

BTW, IMO, it would have been less unhinged to have informed me (in response to my angst re: slow reloading & 1/2 screen) about the option of changing my screenview to the original vBulletin style, than that unkind remark.
But at least one of you kindly provided me the info via PM, and again, I thank you for that.
They speak of the "sanity of insanity", well maybe they should expand that to the "injustice of judgmentalism".

 

No offense, but the post above is possibly the most surreal piece of writing I have come across on NBR I believe cutting down on the theatrics will get the message across better.

Edit: on a more related matter, regardless of which laptop you choose to buy you will not find the old-school clicky keyboards, let alone a lot of height to the keys. However you twist and turn it or agonize about it, that is how it is.

I suggest you simply find a notebook with a keyboard and screen which fits your needs as closely as possible, after which you source an external keyboard (i.e. like the Dell keyboard you like) and plug it in when you are at home. If you find an old PS/2 style keyboard, just get a PS/2 to USB converter and you are all set.