mp3 Player uncertainty... Please Help!

So I am looking to buy an mp3 player soon and was hoping that I could get some informed help...

I currently have about 10.5 GB of music, but of course the amount is ever expanding (not by a lot at a time, but slowly and surely) and I am not sure which size mp3 player I should go for...

The pricing between a 16 GB flash based player and an 80 GB HD based one are very similar for many companies, and I guess any help on which size is better would be greatly appreciated. For me, the only places I will be bringing it with me is in the car and while snowboarding in the winter...

Lastly, I have been looking a lot into Microsoft Zunes and what Creative has to offer along with what Sandisk and Samsung have...

While I don't want to get into details, if you would refraim from suggesting iPods that would be great. For me they are out of the picture...

Lastly, I don't really want to spend more than $200-$250...

Thanks for any and all help you can give!

 

I would go for Creative.

Ipod ... Least Freedom, Worst Audio Sound
Zune ... Some Freedom, Great Audio Sound
Creative ... Complete Freedom, Best Audio Sound

 

Are there any models you would suggest, or possible sites to buy from?
(I know of the obvious ones like Amazon and NewEgg...)

 

Have you considered Sandisk's Sansa View model? Its a great alternative to the iPod.

 

...Or Sansa Fuze + MicroSDHC card.
The 16gb MicroSDHC cards should be coming out real soon now.

 

Im thinking of getting the 8gb Zune. Anything better than this?

 

Creative Zen 32 GB for $239.99 (or 16 GB for $159).

I have the 4 GB, and it's great. Although it does have some errors and bugs, but it's worth it. Oh and you can add a microSD too (but you must use the adapter).

I also bought this case for it (it was cheaper when I bought it, but it's still cheap!), it's the cheapest I found, and it's REALLY good. I suggest you buy it (or any other case), along with a screen protector, cause the screen WILL definitely get scratched.

 

Hm... well for me I don't want to have to split my library with a card... I mean if it has a slot, then it's a bonus. But, having a large internal of 16 GB or more is preferred.

 

The only downside to creative is with the SD storage. It's not integrated with internal playlist. You have to actually go to the SD option to access music separate. But it's a great option to store movies and photos.

 

Yeah from what I've seen that's what all of them offer...

But really that is not a big issue for me...

Do you think you could recommend one of the models please? I can't really tell the differences between their Zen lines except their looks and HD size...

 

I have the 80 GB Zune (2nd Generation) and I LOVE it. I find the interface to be much better than an Ipod and the audio quality is also MUCH better. The ear buds included with it are fantastic (best ear buds I've used) and the large screen makes it easy to see what song is playing. The "Zune Pad" is also much simpler to use than the Ipod scroll wheel.

It's $230 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Zune-Digital-...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223032205&sr=8-1

 

How is the wireless feature on it?

Im interested in the 8gb flash Zune (2nd Gen)

 

I've had the Zen, and I didn't like it, then a while after that it broke. I gave it a fair chance, and it just didn't cut it. I also have a Cowon D2, and if you ask me, then its 100 times the player the zen is. Much better sound quality, way more features, much longer battery life, and I don't like how the zen is tags only, where as the D2 uses file folder, or tags, which ever you want. Its the same size of screen, plays the same size of videos. The audio end of the D2 is much better though, it supports more codecs, and the SDHC slot is fully integrated into the internal memories library. Its also a very durable player, and the touch screen works very well. I've found that its the easiest player for me to use while driving. Its also got a setting where you can make it so the tactile buttons can change songs, play/pause, and adjust volume, so if your afraid of not being able to run it in your pocket then you don't have to worry about that, cause cowon though of it.
http://www.jetmall.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=440

 

Hm... that does sound quite nice, but for me if I am going to go with a 16 GB flash based player I think that it should be thinner than 0.65 inches...

Well I understand that it incorporates a touch screen it still seems a bit excessive in size...

But nice recommendation anyway!

 

I turned the wireless feature off when I got it because I didn't plan on using it and I wanted to save battery life. From what I hear though, it works fine and there are ways to circumvent the limited play rule...

 

Yeah, its a bit thick, but it certainly has more features than anything else including a dictionary and a scientific calculator. And the battery life is really great too. I've got many different types of mp3 players from many different companies and its my favorite.

 

Yeah I have heard that as well, but since the forum doesn't allow talk of illegal things I think we will just have to talk about how nice JPEG formats are instead.

But seriously, how does the wireless affect the battery life? Does it really bring it down by that much?

 

I personally haven't tested it since I've never had the wireless on, but the CNET review says

Source: http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/microsoft-zune-second-generation/4505-6490_7-32638989.html

 

Hmph. I've never heard of Cowon, not a popular brand I guess. That being said, I'd give it some time until it breaks as well. That's how it always is.

 

I've had the Cowon longer than the zen. I also have 7 other Cowon models. They're not popular but I've liked each and every one of their players that I've used. They're much better than the other ones I've used/owned(ipod, creative, samsung, sansa, sony, iriver, insignia, Rio, RCA)

 

NO.. Creative has a poor Sound quality.

iPod is much better and can be also used for iMod.

but i suggest Sony ... they support Drag n Drop audio files

 

ZUNE! I own a 30 and an 80- I like them so much I bought one for each person in my family.

 

I don't know if anybody mentioned this:

If your going snowboarding while listening to music, an HDD would be bad idea.

I know, some people had HDD player for some time, dropped them, they still work.
However - one sometimes gets unlucky. (I had 2 HDD failures on my old Medion laptop, Samsung HDD, in about 2 years (about 1 per year))

Compared to the HDD, the flash is 100% shockproof, it will only break if the actual "bits and pieces" are torn apart, that needs significantlsy more force than damaging a HDD.

 

Creative Players have excellent sound quality. It's Ipod that has the poorest.

So does Creative.

 

From my experiences ipod's aren't as good as creative, but creative isn't all that well(I haven't used an imod). If you want real SQ then get one of the new Sansa's, a Sony, a Cowon, or a Iriver.

 

i've been looking at the cowon S9 and the iriver spinn, but still don't have release dates for the US. if one of them aren't out soon or aren't as good as i expected then i'm just getting a touch.

about sound quality, creative is better than an ipod. but i did hear that the touch has decent quality. but i'm not exactly picky with sound quality as long as it doesn't sound like an old portable radio with no bass.

 

You'd really like Cowon then. Out of the players that have enhancements then I'd say that they do the best with theirs. And besides that they have good clean sound from the start. Yeah, I'm waiting for the S9 also, but I don't know if it will be as good as the D2. I doubt it will be.

 

The new Ipod Touch 2nd Gen has good sound quality. I had the Cowon X5 which was excellent. The Ipod Touch 1st Gen is no where as good but the 2nd Gen has much better sound IMO. The bass isnt as flat for one.

I STRONGLY suggest the Ipod Touch 2nd Gen to ppl who can use the WiFi functionality. It is very handy for times when you are without your notebook. I am a college student and I use it pretty often.

 

I would like to temper the debate with a few miscellaneous facts and opinions:

1. If you - like 99% of people - have imported your music in 192kbps MP3/AAC/WMA or less, or VBR, the "sound quality" debate among different MP3 players is basically moot. OK, so it' basically moot anyways, just self-professed audiophiles haggling over minute supposed differences 99% of us couldn't hear if we tried. I can hear my ThinkPad's Core 2 Duo whine so clearly I can't bear to use it without headphones on, yet can't tell any significant difference between 128k MP3 and CD-quality audio on a mid-range 5.1 setup pumped through my X-Fi. Certainly not hundreds of gigabytes or dollars worth of difference. So let's leave this debate aside and focus on more material details, shall we?

2. Apparently the Zune's wireless CAN be used to sync with your computer on the new Zunes, so I stand corrected on that point. The "squirting" failings remain the same: All it does is transfer a DRM-wrapped copy of a song that plays 3 times before deleting itself to another Zune. Oddly, it even DRMs things like PodCasts that were free to begin with. But I suppose if you complain about "free" extras you're just being a tosser.

3. Zunes and iPods, along with some other companies' players, force you to use their software to sync them. Except not really for the iPod, since every 3rd party media player on every platform can also sync with the iPod. Also, remember the following:

4. While it's popular to rail against MP3 players that don't let you just transfer music en masse without using proprietary software, the point of iTunes, the Zune software, etc. is to generate a database on your PC and transfer that to the MP3 player, so that it knows where everything is. It really is more efficient than having the MP3 player's slow hard dive and processor read every directory one by one as your pore through a directory structure. For example, on Rockbox on my iPod 5G it takes less than one second to bring up the artist menu with the database, but loading the 41.4 GB music folder (which is divided up into folders for each artist) takes several seconds. The other issue here is that RockBox had to generate the database while on battery after I'd loaded the music onto the player, and has to update, again form the battery, every time I add more; iTunes, however, is able to do it while transferring, saving battery life. Of course, since Apple decided to extend a giant middle finger to users of both XP x64 and Linux, I don't have much choice.

5. The iPod scroll wheel vs. a D-Pad argument. The argument here is obvious: D-Pad is more accurate but far slower; conversely, the scroll wheel is faster, especially when you have hundreds of artists to go through, but when trying to select one from a smaller list the D-Pad is more accurate. It's personal preference here; try to try out both and see which you like better.

6. I would like to point out that the insistence of so many MP3 player makers to include an FM radio is one their many bouts with total freaking pointlessness. It's an MP3 player...you have tens of gigabytes of music you know you like, in high(ish) quality and free of ads, and you're going to listen to the radio? Really? Who does that?

Ultimately the most important decision in selecting an MP3 player (like any other piece of hardware) is price versus performance. Oddly, Apple leads here, being both (at least on the iPod Classic) the best dollar/gigabyte and the smallest footprint for a hard-drive based player, as far as I am aware. And if you already have 11GB and growing, a flash-based player is probably not the best idea.

 

I own a zune, and flip, i gotta say its one hell of a player.

@lowly marine, i think some of your points are a bit biased.

Dpad vs scrollwheel:
Dpad you can touch and manually press, so i think it has the advantage here. And you can hold it down, so its the same speed, but with more capability than the ipod.

Wireless:
"2. The Zune's wireless is a joke and can be safely ignored when comparing it to other MP3 players. It can't be used for buying things from the store, it can't be used to sync with your computer, etc. All it does is transfer a DRM-wrapped copy of a song that plays 3 times before deleting itself to another Zune. Whoop-dee-doo. Oddly, it even DRMs things like PodCasts that were free to begin with."

You obviously haven't seen the new firmware. You can sync wirelessly to the computer. Wireless got a total revamp here.

Software:
Personal preferance really. I think the zune software is superior in the looks and design. Again, preference.

FM Radio:
TOTATLY BIASED HERE. I listen to the radio here. this is a totally biased argument, and i don't even know why you bothered posting it. There are people who listen to it when they want to tune in on the news/weather.

Additionaly, zune has given us all the new features through new firmware updates. I don't see apple doing that. My old zune 30 now has all the features of the 120, just hardware differences.

I just love the zune, and i think its superior to the ipod.

 

lowlymarine, you make some good points, but calling the SQ of a player moot, well thats just stupid. When I test mp3 players, do you know what I do, I use the SAME file, and the SAME headphones, and I can certainly tell the difference, I let my younger siblings listen to it and they too can tell the difference. I've also gone up to random people and let them try my cowon and they're were just amazed at how much better it sounded than their players(ipod, creative). Be that pure sound quality with a flat EQ, or the enhancements that Cowon provides with their players. You do have a point that apple has the biggest HDD based players, but for me, I couldn't go back to HDD based players and expect them to survive. and 16GB is starting to be the standard for alot of flash mp3 players, 4gb for the extremely small. Oh, and I also like to use the radio on my player, to listen to one of the local DJ's who is really funny. Although I don't require that from a player.

 

yup, flaming the radio was not a good idea.

 

Calm down, I wasn't trying to defend or attack any particular player. I'll remove the part about the Zune's wireless as soon as I confirm that it does indeed actually do something useful now. I don't believe I ever addressed whether the software was any good or not; computer-based music players/library management software wasn't the point of this discussion. (I use Amarok on Windows and Exaile on Ubuntu, for what it's worth.)

Again, I believe the D-Pad vs. scroll wheel (which is by no means Zune vs. iPod specific) is personal preference more than anything else.

As for the radio, well if you listen to it that's great. I certainly can't reliably get any "news or weather" on FM around here, but if you can more power to you. Though since an MP3 player is ostensibly meant to be used while on the go, perhaps you should have just checked the weather before leaving your home.

Yes, but what format and quality is that track? I'm betting (since you're making this argument) not 128kbps MP3/AAC/WMA/etc. And let's face it, since that's what all the major software - WMP, Zune Software, iTunes, Winamp, Sound Juicer (well OK Sound Juicer uses 128k OggVorbis but still) - imports in by default, it's what 98% of people's music will be in. I have both an iPod 5G and an MP3 player built into my phone, as well as 5 computers with everything from AC'97 audio to Intel HD to an X-Fi and my music - which is all in 128kbps MP3 (primarily because when it was in 320 it grew to be too big to fit on my hard drive at the time) - sounds exactly the same through my Logitech FreePulse headphones on every platform. Yeah, it sounds better coming out of the Logitech 5.1 setup connected to my desktop, but most people aren't carrying a $200 surround-sound speaker setup around with them.

As for hard-drive vs. flash based, I've dropped my 3-year-old iPod plenty of times and it still works. As with anything, your mileage may vary, but I know that it would cost a pretty penny to put my 41.4GB library on microSD cards. *shrug*

 

lol, I use different bit rates, from 128-320 but only mp3, and I can tell. Your right though, some cannot tell between 128 or 320 or whatever. But I'm certain that they can tell the difference between an ipod and Cowon, I'd side-by-sided them and its a clear difference. Yeah, 42GB of music is getting a little big for flash, but I don't expect ANY mp3 player to hold my music collection, HDD or Flash. But even at 42GB a 16GB Cowon D2, with a 32GB SDHC card comes out to over your music collection and thats like $350 shipped, yeah a little pricey, but with the Cowon D2 you get ALOT more features(Good SQ and great sound enhancements, File folder or tags, more codecs, videos, dictionary, flash games, Scientific calculator, sleep timer, alarm clock, customizable UI, TV out, radio, record radio at certain times, line-in, picture viewer, .txt viewer, better battery life) then you ever would out of a ipod with that much capacity.

 

I think the WiFi Zune feature when Syncing is a bit too slow. It's good for just a song or two, but a huge multiple of songs or a video takes forever. I been without a Zune for about 6 months, so things might have changed. But I doubt by much.

I also think people give Zune more sound quality credit than it deserves, mainly because the earphones are outstanding and drowns out any outside noise. They are basically earplugs cause even with the music off you can't hear much. LOL

 

A couple of thoughts...

You make a good point here. Better headphones are going to make more of a difference than the media player IMO. That said, the "stock" experience you get from the Zune is WAY better than the Ipod because of the headphones. The Ipod headphones suck.

The D-pad on the Zune can scroll through artists extremely fast by holding a direction down. I find it to scroll faster that way than the Ipod without giving your finger a cramp.

The Ipod has the best price/GB with its 120GB player.

 

Ok I hear some good idea flow here and some (which I have definitely siphened out) complete bias...

All in all though thank you all for your comments!

One comment I'd like to comment on was:

Yeah I think this is the issue I am struggling with the most...

For me, I have about 11 GB like I said before and it is steadily increasing, but on the flip side I can see what others are saying about HD based players being less reliable with what I would be doing with my mp3 player(I will mostly be taking it snowboarding, running, and in the car).

So I guess my question is are there any nice players out there that are flash based that have more than 16 GB? I think 16 GB might be enough, but if I could have more in a flash HD that would be great. ^^

Thanks again for all the input! Keep it coming!

 

From the reviews ive read on the newer models, they revamped the WIFI and other features to compete in the market.

Looks like i will be purchasing a Zune this week.

Also the reviews say the Zune comes with horrible earphones..

 

Honest question:
Have you ever heard of a Media Player which ships with great headphones?
The best you'll get included in any product are just decent...

Reason: Don't include them, people will complain because they've paid so much. Include bad ones, people will say "well these are bad..." and go off buying new ones not really complaining...

 

Hm... I have heard quite the opposite...

 

I read a couple of reviews (8gb flash zune) and the earphones were under the Cons list on most of them. They recommended using hi quality earphones if you wanted the full quality of the zune.

Anyway ive ordered it in, should arrive by this week.

 

The Zune headphones are excellent. Rich Deep & Clear sound. But realize they are just like earplugs and it's hard to hear anything else even with the music off. So I wouldn't go bike riding with them on.

 

The Creative zen comes in 16 or 32GB, the Cowon D2 comes in 16GB with SDHC(up to 32GB) expansion. If you waited a bit(like 6 months) then I bet more 16/32GB players would be on the market.

 

Eh, you guys seem to have a misconception here.

DEPENDS WHICH MODEL OF ZUNE you bought would have the premium headphones.

Orginal Stock headphones:
4 GB
8 ""
16
30
120

Zune Upgraded Premium Headphones
80 GB

@LIVEFRMNYC
You have the zune 80, so that's why the headphones are so great. I agree, these headphones are fantastic.

@Flipfire
you are getting the one with stock headphones, so its just any other ipod headphone, which would be negative.

 

If you want nice earphones that don't break the bank (much), I recommend the Creative EP-640. I'm really happy with mine. I paid about $35, but I see them now for $20 on Amazon.

 

For what it's worth, if the OP is considering Cowon, you don't have to get the touchscreen D2. Cowon makes a small (though not slim) player with good audio and good codec support called the iAudio 7. It goes up to 16GB flash and has phenomenal battery life - in the area of 50 - 60 hours. It has it's own unique interface on the face of the player, but you can also program the volume buttons on the side to be 'back' and 'forward' when you're in Hold mode (and switching in and out of hold is a tactile slider right next to the volume buttons). VERY easy to use when you have it in your pocket. I think it would be perfect in usability / durability while snowboarding. And if you care about all the sound quality and codec stuff, that aspect is just a bonus. You can find it at Amazon or Jetmall.net.

@Whoever said Cowon must not be a popular player - that doesn't mean they're bad, just that their US marketing team is asleep on the job!

 

Exactly! The spectrum of portable digital music players is a very long one, but at one end you have Creative, and at the other end, you have iPod. With iPod you are shackled to Apple's draconian DRM schemes, whereas with Creative, you are free to do as you please. Additionally, Creative is well versed in digital audio; they've been making sound cards, speakers, and other high end auido gear for years. Apple simply does not have that luxury to boast.

Fact is, Creative has been doing this a long time. Hell, I still have my first ever MP3 player, the Creative Nomad Jukebox 10GB. I upgraded that to a Nomad Jukebox 2, then to a 3. I've owned many iPods (2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation) and a Zune (2nd gen), and in all honestly, they all exhibited the same defects: inferior audio, no custom EQ's, poor battery life, DRM craziness.

Honestly, I just picked up a Creative Zen Vision M 60GB MP3 player not too long ago. Yes, Creative no longer makes them, and this is likely to be the last HDD based MP3 player Creative makes. However, the Zen Vision M offers so many more features than the iPod that it's ridiculous.

One thing to remember and be aware of if you are considering the new flash based Creative Zen's (this includes all models both WiFi and non-WiFi): Creative is catching some flak. The "expandable" storage option of the Zen (in the form of a SD memory card slot) is not all that it is cracked up to be. It cannot be accessed via playlists. It acts as a separate storage device, therefore the music/videos stored on a SD memory card cannot be cued the same way as they are when stored on the internal flash memory in the MP3 player.

When I was shopping around for a new MP3 player, I had intentions of getting a new WiFi 32GB Zen. However, upon doing my research, I found the SD memory card fiasco to be unsatisfactory. Because of this, I chose to go with the Zen Vision M in lieu of Creative's new flash based MP3 players. Check it out:

Creative Zen Vision M MP3 Player

 

They don't make the ZVM anymore. It was one of the best players of all time(although the SQ still wasn't as good as some of the other players I've owned). But by no means was it bad.

 

Correct, although I mentioned that in my post. However, I did find a retailer that is selling them brand new, sealed, for about $350 a pop for the 60GB slim version. As far as sound quality goes, the Zen Vision M is, in my opinion, the best sounding, and this includes all previous iterations of the Nomad Jukebox series I've owned in the past, as well as the current gen iPods on the market, and the new second gen Zunes.

 

hahaha... my first mp3 player had a meager 32 MB internally and could take a 64 MB MMC card in it! I remember the old days of it all and really mp3 players have come a LONG way...