3820TG Owner's Lounge - Part Two

Some interesting stuff ... can't wait to see how it shakes out.

Bronsky

 

Those were real fun to figure out . I actually looked at DSDT first and only then played around by turning things off and on and looking for changes in RWEverything EC. I will add them to my post.

Let the user decide . Personally, I'd love to turn off my fans for temperatures below 50C. When I browse the web, fan keeps turning on/off quite often. I find it pretty annoying.

And as I mentioned, EC also reports current fan speed. It would be nice to see it in the tray, if you hover mouse over the icon.

On a side note, I think it would be a great idea to create a standalone program to control just the fan, display fanspeed and temperature. Maybe even a command-line utility to write to EC? It should be pretty configurable (XML file?) and a small guide on how to edit it for any laptop. I found many people on different forums who wanted to modify 1810tray to control fan speed, therefore having a light-weight generic fancontrol program would be a great idea! In the long term, we could create a database of configuration files for every Acer laptop. That would make many people happy.

At the moment, I do not know of a way to do it in Windows.
There are two ways we can control switchable graphics now:
1. Set what card you want to use in the BIOS, providing you are running a modified BIOS or unlocked the hidden menu. IGP for Intel and PEGP for ATI (or Switchable -> Discrete)
2. Boot with whatever card, switch manually and then use 3820tray to make sure it doesn't auto-switch to another card on AC power change, Standby/Hibernate, etc.

As far I know are two other ways to control switchable graphics that we haven't tried yet:
1. Figure out how to make that AMD service to switch to the card we want. I have no leads on this, but it may be possible to install programs that monitor what is going on in the system (registry change, what programs are executed) and then switch graphics via the Configure Switchable Graphics menu in Windows. Examine the logs and see what processes were executed. Then we could simply execute those calls manually.

2. ACPI calls. Before vga_switcheroo module was added to the Linux kernel, there was a way to disable unused graphics card (yes, just disable, but I am fairly sure we can also switch graphics the same way) manually by ACPI calls. Here is a link to the program Linux Hybrid Graphics: Using acpi_call module to switch on/off discrete graphics card in Linux You can look at the source code and see how it works. It is pretty straight forward. If you want to test it, you will need to do it on Linux of course.

To turn graphics cards on/off you need to know which functions to call. You can either use the tool above to figure it out (as long as graphics are set to Switchable in the BIOS) or google for 3820TG ACPI calls. I've seen them on Ubuntu forums, together with a small program to turn graphics on/off. It was very similar to the one above.

The ACPI methods that are called are located in SSDT table and you can see them in RWEverything ACPI section. They are called ON() and OFF(). There should be both ON() and OFF() for Intel and ATI.

So, what we could do is: turn both graphics cards on by calling ON() and then turning off the graphics card we don't need by calling OFF(). I am fairly sure Windows would take care of everything else on the driver side, just like Linux does. This should be very generic and could work on many laptops (providing proper ACPI methods are called that differ from model to model).

Acer Launch Manager LManager stores configuration and current status of devices in the registry. There are keys you can change to disable WiFi autorun, enable BT autorun, set custom command for the Backup (P button) key. I have seen many people looking for such options and it would be awesome to see them in 3820tray. I will post information today (hopefully).

Yes, it is possible to control the LED on P (or Backup as Acer calls it) key and it could be used to enable/disable the backlit keyboard (providing you do all the soldering correctly of course). I think it might be possible to enable/disable power to the 3G module even if it is not present, so backlit keyboard could get power from there too. I am not sure about this one though! Will someone volunteer to test with multimeter?

And the last thing, I can't seem to figure out how to call your program: 3820tray or 3820 tgTray?

Let me know what you think!


PS: I find it very exciting to be involved in all of this! Can't wait to see what we will come up with next! Finally some use for yet-to-be-complete computer science degree.

PPS: Once I figure out all the things I am interested in, I will be porting all the tweaks and hacks to Ubuntu. I have some very interesting projects on my mind.

 

Absolutely agree. Moreover there is one more silent fan speed level (E8), which is not used by auto-control, but could be useful to provide some cooling while keeping laptop almost silent.

BTW do you found out what that numbers mean? Is there any way to transform this to RPM or percents of max value? I have tried set 00 into [0x94], but got only 0x60 in [0x95]

I also started working on this . My application does exactly what you have described. I'm attaching its screenshot on my desktop. Hopefully I'll add Acer support in next few days. BTW, do you know how to check EC or whatever that this is exactly our Acer model?

I'm planning to first pre-release w/o that check. Then I want to add model check. And then probably Intel Core temps reading.

 

It seems like we can set ANY fan speed as long as it is above the minimum and below maximum (whatever those values are, we have yet to figure out). I think those min/max values are limited by the actual fan hardware, but I am not sure.

I got a maximum of 0x60 for CPU and 0x45 for GPU fans when I tested it with 0x00 fan speed. I don't have an exact formula to calculate RPM, but I did find some formulas for Acer fans in DSDT tables for other laptops (there are no FAN tables in 3820 DSDT). I will add this information to my EC registers post. The only way we can find the true formula is to either measure the actual fan, or look up the data sheet for the fans to find the maximum (and minimum?) RPM speed. I did some research, and I couldn't find any information apart from manufacturer and part number. Perhaps, we should email the fan manufacturer and ask for some data about the fans.

Looks great! As long as you provide the source code too . And, I don't know. I never looked into it. If you poke around RWEverything, in one of the memory dumps it lists the model name and number. It also gives you a memory address. Maybe you should just read value at that address? I never looked into this, so I don't know. This is some basic information, so I think you should be able to find an answer on google.

On Linux, you would use the command " sudo dmidecode -s system-product-name" and/or " sudo dmidecode -s system-version" You could find the source code and see how it works.

There are temperature values in the EC too. You can look at DSDT tables for thermal zones (TZ) to figure out where temps are stored and how they converted to Celsius and reported to the system. Should be straightforward.

 

Yes the maximum for the GPU fan is at 0x60 and it starts at 0xF0. The values between 0xFF and 0xF0 seems not to work correctly, because the swings.

The values seems to be the duration of the PDM/PWM.

 

So theres a lot of talk on fan speeds, I hope my post isn't lost.

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems OC'n the GPU in a 3820TG with the i3/5650? I recently got afterburner up and running and tried an OC of 650/900. It seems fine with some games but not Metro 2033. It seems any OC I try artifacts in Metro 2033. I even went as low as 575/820 and still got artifacts, but when I reset to 550/800 it was fine again. With such a low OC I'm wondering if the artifacts aren't caused by the OC but some incompatibility between some running software like fraps or logitech g-13?

If not it would be just my luck to get a model that has NO real OC capabilities lol. Anyone else just not able to OC the GPU (not that this is a bad thing overall, i'm still grateful to have a 13" with the 5650 1GB

On another note I've been waiting to afford a CPU upgrade. I guess I'm gonna try some forums for an OEM before I go with an ES/QS from e-bay. Who here has an ES/QS CPU?

 

I have no Metro -> no testing.

I'm using a 580m ES inside my 3820TG without problems.

 

I've been finding the stock 3820TG hard drive to be extremely slow. Just bought a relatively new (< 6 month old) second hand X25M-G2 160GB. Hopefully that helps

 

thanks, makes me feel a little safer. do you think prices on ES/QS chips should come down a bit because of sandy bridge?

I got the x25m 120GB. you won't be disappointed!!!

 

I don't know. I haven't look at the prices for a long time, just compare and buy.

I think sandy is not important for the price, because you are not able to change to sandy without buying a new laptop.

 

Although buying a cooling pad with two fans helped a bit with my overheating problem, I'm seriously considering re-pasting the CPU and GPU. The link to a guide in the first post of the thread seems to be broken. Does anyone have another link?

I've repasted desktop CPU's, but never a laptop, so I need some encouragement that it can be safely done.

 

I tried a Cooler Master Notepal X-Lite and it has only one big fan and is pretty quiet. The air flow is against the laptop. The size is perfect for the 3820TG and its inclination is perfect to use backlit keyboard in the dark.

StrAC, if you follow the Service Manual to disassemble you can repaste with no problems.

 

The last time I did mine, I completed the whole process in about 45 minutes. The hardest part is getting a nice even, thin film on the heat sinks. If you are careful and take your time, it is a fairly easy task. I'm still reading through the thread but I know there is another link in there. I'll post it when I come to it. The process is fairly simple. First, take all the screws out of the bottom (get 2 small cups for the screws). Open the bottom access door. Take out the Wifi Card, the ram and the hard drive. Unfasten the antennae leads. Turn the unit over. Take the keyboard out (see Hendrickson's backlit KB thread for instructions on that) and remove the connecting ribbon. Next, remove the screws from the keyboard base and separate the halves of the notebook case. Disconnect the speaker plugs, microphone plug, power and trackpad ribbons, fan plugs, etc. Remove the ribbon connecting the USB board on the left to the motherboard. If you want to put a bluetooth module in, lift the USB board up and out. Then, peel back the black plastic adhesive cover on top of the fan assembly and remove the black and white antennae leads (black on the left, white on the right). Take the white lead out of the clips running along the front of the notebook. At this point you can lift the mainboard out and turn it over. You will see the screws that hold the heat sinks onto the CPU and GPU. Remove the CPU first. Clean the surfaces with alcohol, tint the surfaces a bit with the paste and then put a small bead on the heat sink and spread it thinly. Put the assemblies back together and start the same process in reverse. When you put the mother board back in place be sure that you don't pinch the fan plugs or you will have to undo a lot of your work to free them when it is time to reconnect the fans.

Oh ... be sure to disconnect any power and take the bettery out while you're working on the electronics. Also wear static protection.

Bronsky

@Raulilha - Acer has put the manual on-line right? If so, would you post the link so I can put it on the first page.

 

Hi,

This is my first post in here. Nice to meet you guys.
I hesitate about my first laptop.
These are my choices:

1. ASUS U31JG-RX134V i5-480M (2.67GHz) GT 415M
2. ACER TimelineX 3830TG-2414G64n i5-2410M (2.3GHz) GT 540M
3. ACER TimelineX 3820TG-484G64n i5-480M (2.67GHz) HD6550

Option 1: GPU is weak but its battery is long.
Option 2: New,it has sandy bridge. But single fan is enough to make a cold system ?
Option 3: GPU is so strong but I am worried about the heat in laptop.

Which laptop do I should choose now? Plz give me some advices.
Thanks.

 

Hmmm. Last two looks very familiar. AFAIR they works with 16bit VAL. 8 and 4 - are FAN divisor values. For desktop MB controller chips they could be changed by application to get more precise values of Fan speed for low speed fans.

To ensure I'll check controllers' datasheets and my application sources and will return with more info later today.

 

pls, can we start a new thread only for EC values Temp Fanspeed RW everything.

because this is a really fast growing thread and the important info are going lost in the 1000 pages

 

inteks
Agree. Feel free to create one and give us a link .

 

@prikolchik
i see you are updating your post
http://forum.notebookreview.com/acer/561840-3820tg-owners-lounge-part-two-5.html#post7256607

could you copy it as a startpost to a new thread pls
----------------------
i like to keep it simple...

-below a userdefined temp it switch the fan off.
-above it switch to "auto"


GPU fan is (@ the moment) not possible because i cant read the GPU temp

 

Just to update this thought from part 1 of this thread, I just tried to do the above and installing the latest Intel driver in IGD mode ended up breaking the switchable graphics functionality, so I guess the only option still is using HP ENVY 14's integrated driver if you want a more updated Intel graphics driver while retaining switchable graphics functionality.

 

I had the exact same idea yesterday. Done. http://forum.notebookreview.com/acer/562576-acer-aspire-timelinex-3820tg-mods-tweaks-only.html

 

Any chance we could make a separate thread for anything to do with overclocking, fan speeds and BIOS mods on this lappie?

I am all about everything BUT overclocking and hacking this this laptop, and all my posts on other subjects, like Win 7 SP1, are completely getting lost. PLEASE!

 

Agreed.

That might be a good idea

 

And, already linked to the first page of this Thread.

Bronsky

 

There is a new thread on 3820TG mods & tweaks and this thread for more general questions and a thread on backlit keyboard mod. I really don't see a reason to start another one.

 

Whoops, sorry, that is what I meant. We should define what goes in which thread.

For example, what thread do people think switcheable graphics issues should be in?

Is a mod considered anything changed from the base configuration, or only special things. For example, I'd consider the backlit keyboard a MOD, but changing the CPU, would that be a MOD or just a hardware upgrade like changing the hard drive? It's a legitimately-possible change to the machine, involving the change of unsoldered parts.

Where is the line between modding and upgrading. Does it become a mod only when force is needed to change the original composition of the product? Or is plopping in a new CPU, a "mod"?

 

I can see most of us following two threads!

 

Take a simple look at the mod thread and you will see, which themes discussed there.

Edit:
Let discuss the basics like "switchable graphic doesn't work" here.

 

Is there something I "have to" do with my 3820TG? Easy stuff that will do the laptop better in any way. I've seen a lot of you mentioning overclocking, but I'm not sure I will handle that.

 

I wouldn't do that. Disabling the GPU and uninstalling the driver does not fully disable the GPU, thus it will continue to drain the battery without you doing anything at all.

 

You are correct, disabling the Ati GPU into the device manager and uninstalling the drivers does not disable it. However, flashed the Bios with the modded Bios 1.19 and disable the GPU from the intel menu does it. I'm now getting 6-7 hours of battery with WIFI on. It really works!

I'm now very, very happy!

Charles

 

I think the overarching suggestion you will see, is to get a solid state drive. I highly recommend it. I can restart Windows within SECONDS on this thing with the SSD. And with no physical HD read/write time, games run smooth as budda.

 

is it possible to upgrade the GPU? Has anybody done this here?
thanks

Edit: I have the ATI 5470 with 512mb

 

The GPU is soldered to the mobo.

 

so no way around it then huh?
:cry: :cry: :cry:

thanks for the help

 

Change to mobo with HD5650/HD6550?

 

Yeah that's really the only way around it. But where to obtain it is a problem...

 

Wow! Assassin's Creed Brotherhood runs perfect on this baby!

Max details, except medium shadows, AAx4, FPS: min: 30, avg: 45, max: 70+
Seems better to keep V-Sync off

i5-480m, HD6550m (OC: 750/1100)

 

I've looked into it for a while. It really looks interesting, and I'v pondered a lot about which brand and capacity to go for. After reading tons of info at another forum (norwegian), I know the new generation SSD's are coming soon.

Is it the best to wait for the new generation, price-wise and so on?

 

Nobody knows how the price of flash will react on long therm on the Japan situation.

On the other side, the 3820TG doesn't have SATA3.

 

No. Simply, the 3820tg only supports 3Gb/s SATA. Current and 1st generation SSD's would be fine and work very well in a 3820tg.

I doubt prices will drop either because SSDs (regardless of generation) will work with both 6Gb/s and 3Gb/s SATA ports. Although - used prices are dropping pretty fast. Keep an eye open in market places on forums. I've seen some Vertex (1's) going cheap lately as people buy new motherboards with 6Gb/s SATA ports so they're upgrading SSD's too.

EDIT: How'd I miss Just_a_Nicks post? Stupid me.

 

Tempted to pick one of these up, but with the SNB refresh right around the corner, I'm not so sure. I didn't see a suspected MSRP on the 3830TG - can anyone tell me what the 3820TG debuted at, or what its price has been in the past?

 

Do you guys think it's safe to upgrade to the 1.19 modded bios with my acer 3820tg-6829? (i5-480m, 6550m)

 

The I5/HD 5650 4820TG was introduced at $850. The 3820TG was only introduced in Canada with an I3/HD 5650 or an I5/HD 5470 GPU. The I3 retailed for under $800 when it was introduced.

Bronsky

 

Hey guys, is it possible to swap the wlan card for a pcie mini ssd?? and use a usb dongle for wlan?

 

Read the data sheet of the SSD.

 

Damn my harddrive failed. Raw Read Error Rate failure


Mmm in dubio: Get a new hdd or get an ssd.. I don't know whether an SSD is big enough and whether it is worth it..

 

I got another question, is 8gb of ram worth it, is it going to make my laptop faster and is 80$ a good price for corsair 1333 2x4gb ram? I playing some games and sometime my ram gets to 88% used. only 3.8gb (Intel graphics)

 

Help! I followed the BIOS recovery and flashing guide in order to upgrade from 1.13 to 1.19, and now, I can't figure out which file I need to rename to XXXX.FD. I'd use the HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool but the last time I tried to update the BIOS this way, it didn't work.

 

Mine has 8gb ram, and while I upgraded from a really crappy system (see sig) and I can tell loading times for certain memory-heavy programs like iTunes and various games are much quicker. I don't know whether the 4gb to 8gb jump will make much difference.

I guess at a certain point, you get diminishing returns and I don't know any regular user who would swear by 8gb ram over 4gb ram.

 

4GB or 8GB make no noticable difference for gaming performance (no game I heard about will profit from 8GB, at the moment)