Framerate affected after long use?

I played a couple different games today on my 14, and after about 5-6 hours I loaded up Shadow Warrior and noticed a huge FPS difference (~30fps loss). I made sure that I was running my 765m and not my onboard graphics. I restarted my computer and immediately it went back normal. What was this? Throttling? I just got my 14 last week, but would I need a bios update?

 

try updating your bios to latest version, then try to reproduce the problem

 

I was due for a BIOS update. I was on A03, updated to A06. Haven't been able to replicate the same issue yet but I'll try a lengthier test tomorrow.

 

yeah they did release a bios update to fix the throttling i remember.

 

I updated to A06 a couple days ago and and both the erratic fan behavior and throttling have been fixed.

 

Are you sure? Because that's what they said about A04, I just updated to A06 hopefully it's fixed.

Dell has a bad habit of releasing fixes with exaggerated yields

 

It seems to have been fixed. Maybe it's just the lower ambient temps now that winter is in.

 

maybe, but still I expect the system to run it's specs Overclocking I understand doesn't need to be supported or always work but at least it's min!

But can you imagine seasonal bios upades? A06 Winter edition, and summer edition. LOL

 

Still being throttled even after my BIOS update.

 

Yup see Dell aint that good at getting things 100% right lol I had to restart and run discrete mode then restart again into optimus mode, then AGAIN restart and run discrete mode to get it to finally work properly once...

 

This is what I'm having to do to try to combat the problem...

(if you can't see what I'm doing, I'm running a laptop cooler pad and a fan behind the device)

Alienware I hope you can fix this... Especially on a laptop I just received not even 5 days ago.

 

yup I game with window open and keep it on cooling pad myself.

 

That fan is pushing hot air right back into the exhaust vent.

 

LOL in a way yes

 

Wow forreal? Should I set it up sideways?

 

I think what I would do is instead of having it blow on it, I would prob just get it to blow what ever the exhaust is blowing out away. There really is no point to blow on it unless the air behind is much colder than what is coming out (like an ac or something), I think most likely it's blowing some of that hot air back in since it's fan on fan, not fan on sync.

 

Okay, I just set it up after the second time of throttling. Switched the back fan up to shoot air sideways to deter the air coming out the back to the side while also cooling the laptop. But it still shouldnt even be throttling!

 

Nope the laptop should not be throttling period. Try using Nvidia Inspector to stop the throttling some have reported success, it seems to have stopped it for me. It might be that I don't game enough but yeah Also make sure your in discrete mode

 

Good point. Make sure your running on the dedicated video card and not the integrated video. Do you monitor your temps? What temps are you getting up to?

 

Whenever I monitor, the most I'm getting up to is <60. I didnt check when my framerate was affected though (which I should have). How can I tell if im discrete or onboard? I've already set my nvidia control center to use the 765m always and whenever I press the hotkey to switch to discrete it comes up with a window and it seems to explain that im already in discrete and do i want to turn it off. I'm currently at work right now so I cant tell you exactly what it says.

 

Use HW monitor or something and see what your cpu/gpu temps are running at. I have LONG sessions of BF3 ands BF4 and don't have any issues that I can tell.

 

I'm not seeing my GPU temp using HW monitor.

 

Try using HWiNFO64 instead of HW Monitor, then enable the feature highlighted below.
That should help you get consistent readings on your discrete graphics temps and clocks.



Launch NVIDIA Control Panel. Instead of using the option to "Let the 3D application decide" use the middle radio button for "Use the advanced 3D image settings" and on the global/base profile tab set the option to use your NVIDIA GPU instead of integrated graphics as the primary graphics card. In the base/global profile menu, change every option available to focus on "High performance" versus "Quality" and most especially change the power management mode from "Adaptive" to "Prefer maximum performance." Click the "apply" button and you should be all set.

 

Ok I've got everything set, kudos for the info and pics. Let's hope this time I won't get bogged! :thumbsup:

EDIT: So, I can't get the HwInfo to work correctly. It won't show me temps on my 765m. This is what pops up when I start the program:


After pressing continue, I still can't see core clocks on my nvidia or temps. I can only see the intel graphics but I KNOW I'm on discrete, because everytime I do fn+f5 and reboot, I'm in 800x600 and windows tries to download drivers.

 

Choose to disable that sensor and check the box to not show you the message any more.

What does your Device Manager show for "Display Adapter" devices? Please post a screen shot. If you don't have the Intel Haswell Graphics and the NVIDIA drivers installed correctly, it may be preventing Optimus from working correctly. You should not be prompted to install drivers.

 

Let me know if things are working better now after our visit. Hope it was helpful. :thumbsup:

 

Wow!! I opened rift and noticed a 40+fps increase! Fox, you are the man. Thank you again for the 1on1 help it was more than amazing.

 

Happy to help. Pay it forward, my friend. I'm sure somebody out there will need your help any day now.

 

Well, now after 30-45 minutes of gaming, I'm back to throttling again.


EDIT: Could it be that I was tinkering with afterburner and set a clock too high? I reset my clocks but when I went back in game it didn't change.
EDIT2: I think it is with the overclocking. Continuing to run stock clocks to see how it ends up.

 

To some extent what you are encountering is expected with a stock NVIDIA vBIOS. Even GTX 680M and 780M does some of that silly throttling unless you disable GPU Boost 2.0 and tweak some of the firmware settings.

Changing "Adaptive" to "High performance" in the NVIDIA Control Panel helps to some extent, but it does not cure the throttling. The vBIOS mods remove that "feature" that results in the unwanted throttling behavior.

I do not know if the vBIOS on the 14 can be updated. You will need to check with svl7 to find out if he is able to assist with this.

 

I'm assuming anything svl7 does it will most likely not be covered by warranty lol

 

I don't think flashing a vBIOS will void warranty. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Any unofficial change in memory/firmware level would void warranty unless I am mistaken.

"Realistically", it won't matter.

 

You can do whatever you wish to your Alienware without voiding the warranty under the condition that you cause no harm. Mods don't void the warranty, but the mods themselves are not covered. Aftermarket SSD, memory upgrades, CPU upgrades, changes in operating system (Windows 7 to Windows 8) and etc., etc... None of that is covered by warranty, but the warranty is still there to pay for failures of anything involving whatever Dell/Alienware has provided to you.

User-induced damage is not covered by warranty. If you do not induce damage, then there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about... vBIOS flashing or anything else. Changing a HDD to SSD, using aftermarket thermal paste, upgrading memory... anything you can think of potentially falls under this user-induced damage exclusion if you break something in the process. Even though that is the policy, they give benefit of doubt to customers all the time if there is a question of why something failed. If there is a chance it is their fault or a defective part they sold, they take care of the customer. It's typically with blatant acts of stupidity where they draw a line in the sand and say, "No way, Jose."

I don't know of any example where applying one of svl7's firmware mods has resulted in damage. I have seen a few examples of folks making mistakes and buggering something up in the process, but it wasn't the firmware... it was user error. If there is a high risk that the firmware will create problems he will tell you so and warn you against doing it. (Of course, this would exclude any examples of people willing to be guinea pigs and experiment with something never before attempted.) I know of many examples of people destroying their video cards using FurMark or OCCT without discretion, but not one example of GPU death caused by svl7 firmware mods. Whether or not this will work with the Alienware 14's integrated GPU is not known... will need to ask svl7 about that. It may not work if the path the firmware has to take is not direct to the GPU like an MXM module.

There is always a risk factor involved, even using something simple like MSI Afterburner or EVGA Precision X. The only other option is to leave your system the way it shipped to you until the warranty runs out. I don't know of any enthusiast that does that, regardless of their brand preference. Dell/Alienware has, by far, the most liberal and customer-friendly warranty policy that exists anywhere.

 

It totally depends. Apparently the AW reps in the US won't void your warranty if you use a modified firmware (vbios or bios). In case of a component failure you'll still be won't run into any issues, at least as long it is evident that the defect wasn't caused by the tweaked firmware.
If you call Dell support in Europe you better don't tell that you used any modifed bios or vbios, the guys on the phone won't understand what it is, why it sometimes is necessary to use a mod and they are likely to blame any failure on it and void your warranty, even if it's completely unjustified.
The NBD technician that will fix your system does not care what's on or in the system, as long as it is evident that the failure was not caused by misuse of modified firmware or improper tampering with the hardware.

In short, if you didn't kill any components by disassembling the system or abusing certain functionality of modified vbios you don't have to worry.
Still, there's no need to tell the phone guys about the mods, even if it's unrelated to your issue they are very likely to simply blame it on you.

By the way, the way usage of modified hardware is treated when it comes to system warranty can vary a lot from country to country. I recently heard that if you for example use a bios mod to remove a whitelist and you're located in the netherlands then they can't void your warranty, by law. Not sure if that's actually true, but it's absolutely possible that they have a law that either doesn't allow whitelists or similar and therefore the removal is legal, or that they simply say that the hardware is yours, and you can do whatever you want with the software.
Maybe someone else here knows more about that, could be interesting. Or I could google. But I feel lazy.

Yeah, me neither. Sorry if that sounds smug. Fact is that any of my mods that are available to the public are well tested and not just random firmware patchwork. (Unlike the mods of certain other users... but that's not the point here). All mods come with clear instructions. The most common and usually most sever mistake I notice is people failing to read the instructions. RTFM. They're not just there to fill the post. Some things might still be unclear after reading the posted information, especially if someone is new to using custom firmware, the flashing procedure and so on, I can totally understand this. Best thing to do in such a case is to read the instructions again.
And after this it is still possible post post a question. While we're at posting questions... the best place to do so is usually exactly at the same location as where you found the mod, and not in a random thread on a random forum. Just saying.

Not much to add here. It's exactly as Mr. Fox says. And while we're at tools like FurMark, OCCT and similar, they can in fact damage your GPU, even with the stock firmware at stock clocks. Hardware failure caused by such software is not covered by Dell. It's even stated in several articles on their support site:

There's a reason why I never published a 680m vbios with the max possible voltage settings. Same for the 7970m, 650m and so on. Only advanced users are able to properly handle them, no offense. It's only useful for extreme benchmarking, the increased heat dissipation makes such mods useless for daily use, and many people can't even get a moderate overvolt to work without running into issues. (I'm talking about performance issues, with the publicly available mods you don't have to worry about your hardware as long as you follow the instructions.)

Exactly you can always damage your hardware with overclocking, several people here killed their 580Ms by using insane memory overclocks, it's no surprise when a memory chip fails after running at a crazy overclock for 24/7 for weeks.
All overclocking and use of modified firmware happens at your own risk. While I can post instructions, test (or let test) the mods in advance and keep them within sane limits, it's not possible for me to prevent anyone from messing up by ignoring posted advice, misusing certain software or running insane overclocks without sufficient cooling and so on.

AW warranty certainly seems to be great in the US, but as mentioned, it might be a bit different in other regions. In my experience it's still by far better than HP over here, or especially Asus.

One last word - if you kill your system or components by misusing mods or improper handling of hardware, be fair and don't try to trick Dell. That's actually fraud and illegal. And will further increase the prices of the systems and minimize Dell's tolerance when it comes to warranty.

TL;DR - What Fox says.




EDIT: Btw, yes the 765m vbios can be flashed easily. Allows for crazy overclocking.

 

Very detailed answer from both Mr.Fox and Svl7 LOL

Well Frankly at this point I just want to be able to play games with my 765 without always wondering if it's throttling. I also have this weird lag in CS Go, when I run around at random times the game just pauses for half a second then continues...and the game seems to have a weird stutter that I don't really know how to exaplin...but only when turning left and right usually:S (might be mouse but I tried 2).

765m a crazy overclocker? Wow I'd love that, mine can't even do 135+ Display drivers crash. Stablef ro me is 103+ and 250 mhz+ for memory. If I could get it to match a 770m or a 780m (when I say 770m or 780m I mean at my resolution, so let's say if the 780m gets 60 fps @ 1920x1080 I'd like to be able to get a 60 fps @ 1366x768 ) Thats my logic lol!

Anyways, hopefully we'll see a vios from 765m for the alienware 14, I'm a little disappointed that the alienware 18 got windows 8.1 drivers already, while we barely have the latest 8 drivers LOL

 

Does anybody have experience with flashing the vBIOS on a GTX765M? Mine overclocks to +135 core pretty easily at less than 70C with stock voltage, so I think it could overclock pretty well if the clock limit was removed.

 

I have a flashed vbios from svl7 that lets me get about 1100/2500

 

where did u get it?

 

Over on Tech|Inferno, still working on optimizing it to get the most out of my card.

 

do u have a link per chance? I'ms ure a lot of ppl would really want this

 

As he said, I've been looking for it after seeing your post but haven't found anything.

Thanks

 

If you want that vBIOS it's at Tech|Inferno. You will need to be a member there with 5 or more meaningful posts. If you're new and don't have 5 posts you can get download access by paying a one time $5 fee. Please do not post links for others to download it from alternative locations. Our friend svl7 does this for free so we want to respect him and get it the right way, from the right place. Be sure to post feedback in the thread where you find it, as your input is valued and helpful.

 

Do you have a link by any chance? Not of the vbios but of the thread? I have an account not sure if I can see it or not, but yeah

 

It may not be posted for download. Go to the NVIDIA Kepler VBIOS mods - Overclocking Editions, modified clocks, voltage tweaks and if you do not find it, post a question for svl7 about where you can get it. It may be posted in another thread or something. Or, maybe he will have to send it to you.

 

I made a thread on there, for a13 unlocked bios + vbios. instructions and files are in that thread. it should be on the first page


edit* oops sorry, yes this is for R2, not the 14.

 

That is not for the new Alienware 14 GTX 765M vBIOS, is it? That is for the M14xR2 sBIOS, right?

 

Thank you! Don't see the link, I'll just wait until we see more movement in it

 

To see links, you need at least 5 approved posts.