17xR1 advice

I bought an R1 late last year and since then i have suffered quietly with the dpc latency issues and the throttling issues which i have been able to temper with throttlestop.

I have been following this forum for a while and i am aware of dell's dpc "fix" but this renders crysis unplayable and as this is one of the games i bought this laptop to play, this is unacceptable.

After lots of reading on this forum i have been left with the impression that replacing the nvidia's with ati's is a possible solution to my problems. However i am hesitant to hop on the ati bandwagon because i like Nvidias cards and drivers (normally) and i have heard mixed reports on how dual 4870s in cf perform in games compared to sli.

Obviously i'm aware of the new 5870's and either 1 or two of them would be my preferred option, but they arent supported in the r1 and i think my chances of getting my 260's replaced with 4870's are greater than dell replacing my system with an r2.

So my question is this - Should I:

a)Wait and prey for a dream world where nvidia and dell get a hold on this issue they have apparently already fixed?

b)Try and push for 4870's and if so how will they perform compared to 260m sli?

c)Try to push for a refund and replace r1 with an r2?

Specs:

T9600 2.8ghz @3.4ghz
Dual GTX 260m SLI
4gb DDR3 1333mhz

 

Hehe I would try for an R2, then you get newer technology.

 

Just keep hounding them. They blame it on motherboard issues, and after a few mobo replacements, they'lll send an R2 your way.

 

IDD, ive had 280 x replace 1st week i got it... 3 months ago, i had motherboard, 280x2 (again) and 2x 500g Hd replaced! 2 months after i had processor replaced! and now im getting a call on wednesday 19th by the replacement team for a R2=) top spec i would imagine as i spent £3899 on my R1, fingers crossed for CF 5870

 

That system is no good. Ask them to repair, repair and repair. If that does not work and I seriously doubt it will (due to NVIDIA's fubar with the MB chip set) then ask for a refund or a replacement. As far as I know Dell do not even sell R1 systems anymore, at least not on the Danish web site.

 

I have been sitting back with my R1 waiting for Dell to get a proper fix for the R2 or the next NVIDIA GPU release before I start calling.

But the DPC issues still exists, and seems will never be fully addressed.

 

id phone sooner than later man...

 

Ive rang them and explained my issues and their going to run a diagnostic via dell connect. I'm sure this won't turn up anything useful and i have to wait till tomorrow morning before they can do it because their network is down. All this waiting to get nothing before i can take it further...

 

In terms of the Crysis compatibility issues with the current driver, it is a driver issue. You can either escalate your case or wait for another driver release - be it from Dell or straight from NV (NV indicated some weeks back an upcoming Verde driver was inbound).

 

Prepare for a long uphill battle. I had my 280's swapped for 4870's and am pretty happy with my M17x. You'll see I have a very similar setup to you. Going from 260's to 4870's should be a pretty decent upgrade for you...

 

+1...I'd get on them ASAP. I waited on my issue since November & after multiple attempts I getting an R2 as a replacement. Hopefully it'll work better than my R1 did.

 

well you could keep with it, the system was great with a quad core when I had my R1, but the issues still existed in the system, memory issues, dpc latency/lock ups, its a laundry list. I had my unit for about 5 months. The first 3 months were horrible, this was before the beta drivers, and it was utterly horrible to time play games, sometimes I just wouldnt play anything on it and most of the time i was calling dell complaining to them. Some individuals were fortunate in that they had good mobos, but on the whole it destroyed my initial satisfaction of having an high end gaming laptop. I've never had ATI's, so we will see how that fares out im looking foward to getting my R2.

 

Today i spoke to another dell technician who told me that only some of the motherboards for the r1 were prone to the dpc latency issue and that i may have gotten one of the bad ones (yeah right), which obviously explains why the nvidia r1's are still selling like hotcakes. OH WAIT they pulled that model didn't they - wonder why...

He also told me to run some diagnostics through the bios to which i told him that i had little faith that they would turn up anything useful.

He then went on to tell me that the tech support team is entitled to 2 repair attempts... after that i can either get a replacement or a refund if the issue isn't fixed.

 

time to start going through the hurdles. Set aside 4 hour blocks and have them on the phone while you're doing this.

It sucks, but the other option is to deal with your faulty laptop.

 

idd, u need to go through a few replacements 2-3 before they will considering swapping for R2's i had 3 and 1 motherboard! keep at them! i just got my r2 order:

Processor : Intel i7 920XM(2.00Ghz,8MB) Mobile CPU 1 S
Display : 17in WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 - Beyond HD (1200p) - Dual CCFL 1 S
Memory : 4096MB (2x2048) 1333MHz DDR3 Dual Channel 1 S
Hard Drive : 1TB (2x500GB) Free Fall Sensor Raid 0 "Stripe"(7200RPM) Dual
Graphics : Dual CrossFire 1GB ATI GDDR5 Mobility Radeon HD 5870 1

as u can see they're trying to give me the old R1 screen and i need to pay another £97 to upgrade, which i shouldnt have to! so im waiting for contact about this before i give the build go ahead!
so gladi got CF 5870's!!

 

i will be worth it in the long run

option 1 sod it leave it and in few months itl be no good you wont be able to sell it for much and it will be outdated.

option 2 start messing around ringing and ringing and ringing some more with new parts fitted weekly and in a cple of months you will have a brand new system.

id go for option 2 myself

 

Messing around doesn't quite sum it up as i'm beginning to find out. They had me do a clean install of win 7 to prove that the issues aren't software related and tried to fob me off telling me to wait for a bios update at the end of may.

I then went on to explain about the throttling issue and they said this was the first they had ever heard of this and that i need to send them evidence and logs of somekind to study.

It isn't just the fact that the dpc latency can be tempered now it's the fact that for over 6 months i have had a system that can't play music well, can't play video well, and can't play games well... so annoying.

 

What you're seeing is not a driver problem nor DPC. It's clock modulation due to an insufficient power supply to handle the 280M SLI configuration with a quad core processor. Check the stuttering thread, it's all extensively documented. The line about the beta drivers being poor for Crysis is a cover-up, I've seen the exact same performance hit on every game that uses all 4 cores and pushes the 280Ms.

The only fix is a beefier power supply (which they don't have) and a BIOS to support it, or "possibly" the ATI cards. Again, you'll be treading on thin water and coming very close to the wattage threshold still. I'm in the middle of trying to get an R2 replacement, myself.

 

Yes i have read that thread... that's what's given me the ammo to make my case to them. The thing is mine isn't a quad system its a t9600 oc'd to 3.4ghz. It's bang on the same issue as yours though.

 

Wow really? You're the first dual-core user that we've found to hit the wattage limit. Are you running stock clocks on the 280Ms?

 

i have the 260m's actually lol and i do/did overclock them for gaming which does intensify the issue (make it happen more frequently) but it still happens every now and then on stock clocks. What i dont understand is how can my system possibly reach that limit, even with overclocking - it's not as if i have overvolted anything.

 

wow I wonder how close I am to the wattage barrier, then!

 

I'm still waiting to hear back from them in response to a log i sent them using throttlestop in monitoring mode to show the clock modulation throttling effect whilst playing a multiplayer map on crysis wars.

I have also recently logged another test i did whilst running gpu and cpu stress tests simultaniously to show constant full load and the log shows cpu modulation never reaching 100% - instead flipping between 12.5, 25 and 50 i.e the cpu is constantly throttling under these circumstances.
This was shown in the wild fluctuations in fps during the occt gpu test.

 

My Dell rep told me today was the deadline set for engineers for my reporting of the problem to them. He was immediately responsive last night when I inquired about progress, getting back to me within 3 minutes of sending the email. Fingers crossed.

 

Finally got a call back... the tech said that a new bios version A05 for the r1 will be coming out soon (anytime in the next few days to the end of may) and that i need to wait for that because it may correct the issues. However in the event that it doesn't (which is more likely because this is apparently the first they have heard of this issue) he said they will do a motherboard replacement.

 

Hi, I need an advice.
My m17x R1 is completely awful:
-1 motherboard changed;
-1 couple of 280 swapped;
-3 power supply destroyed.

I phoned today because my pc killed another power supply and they said me that the perfect solution is to change the motherboard.
I should go to the north italy tomorrow (I'm an electronic engineer specialized in the lighting system) to make a presentation for a new project, but my work is in my pc and my pc doesn't turn on because the power adapter is gone.
They're pissing me off!

Help me please because i don't need a new super pc, i only need a working laptop.
What is the best way to force dell to listen to my questions?

 

The rep i have been speaking to apparently has 4 days off now... how nice for him. so now i have to wait for him before they will allow me to do anything. Also it looks like they've invented something else to stall for time.

After telling me to wait for bios a05 which may/may not come at the end of may they're now telling me (after i managed to convince a rep that a05 wouldn't help me) that they need to wait to hear from engineers to find out what part is causing the problem before they start replacing bits.

 

They're likely waiting on the flaw with using an insufficient power adapter that I reported to them Monday. I was told engineers had a deadline of Weds to figure out what was going on and I talked to my rep Weds. night and was told that they had missed their deadline and he'd heard nothing, but that he involved a resolution expert to help handle the case. I still have to go through him, though, and he wouldn't give me contact information for the resolution rep even though he was off last night and is off tonight. I'm very close to getting Engadget, Gizmodo and the BBB involved.

 

I wonder if they will end up comparing notes because u see i'm in the uk so i would imagine it's a different engineering team looking into my complaint.

 

My rep just got back to me. Looks like the engineers aren't going to be able to address this in a timely manner (go figure). He said that involving the resolution expert helped move things along and that he's now pushing for a system exchange as soon as possible.

 

So they're not gonna try replacing components then with you?

 

Nope, because I sufficiently proved to them that replacing parts is not going to work and is a waste of both of our time.

 

Good luck getting your R2 Elkay, I kinda wish I could get an R2 replacement too but I bought mine from a non-dell Refurb company.

So ill have to stick with using throttlestop for the rest of the laptops life.

 

Elkay, could you briefly summarize what you told them/provided them with in order to achieve this... incase theres something that i haven't thought of because my rep seems to be a little less compliant than the one you had. Anything you could tell me would be of great help. Thanks

 

Everything I've done is documented in the stuttering thread. You'd likely need to run all of the same tests I did to be able to use the same argument. Pointing them at my posts won't do much good, either, since your system is not nearly the same as mine.

 

Spoke today to my rep a week after sending a burst of screenshots, throttlestop logs and rightmark graphs and still he has heard nothing from the engineering team and he still maintains that the a05 bios update will probably fix the issue, failing that he says a motherboard replacement should remedy the issue.

I'm up against a brick wall here trying to convince these people there is a design issue with their machine that they so lovingly dropped like a hot potato. He's going to call me back tomorrow with an "update" whatever that means... probably just trying to stall till his miracle bios comes out.

 

Look if you migrate to the 4870 Crossfire will most likely take care of your issues though some latency and throttling issues still exist with those cards. The problem being the MB which is just bad.

 

Finally a breakthrough!!! They're sending a technician to replace the processor in my system on friday. I know that it isn't a problem with the processor individually and so the repair will fail and i'll be able to push for another repair, after which an r2 may be on the cards.

Its funny to watch these technicians wildly stabbing in the dark to try and and solve this. Also i know that the 4870's MIGHT help but why settle on that when i can push for an r2...

 

The engineer came today and replaced my cpu and motherboard... neither of them fixed the throttling(obv) and i rang tech support up again. They said then that the graphics cards MUST be the problem and were gonna send me 2x 260m's but i made the point that with sli disabled the throttling goes away (because of the decreased power consumption) so they concluded it must be the secondary card.

They're sending the card and a tech to install it on monday and they say if that fails (which it will due to the real nature of the problem) then they will discuss the possibility of a replacement machine i.e. an r2!

 

Enjoy your R2. The graphics card replacement won't make a bit of difference.

 

have you got any further with yours yet?

 

After the gpu replacement they said there is nothing wrong with the system and it is "working as designed", and that it must be a software issue. They are unwilling to do anymore repairs and say that is all they can do. The tech said i can file a complaint which he will forward to the proper authority.

I am currently in the process of writing my experience up in an email and threatening to contact the TSI which is basically the British BBB. God knows if it will help or not but it appears i'm up against a brick wall.

 

That's bloody shocking! I asked to speak to a senior tech about the issue and he wouldn't take my call at first because as far as they were concerned the issue was dealt with.

I eventually persuaded them to get the tech to speak to me who then claimed "there are no instances of the issue on any other machines we have ever sold and there are people out there with more powerful systems with quad cores who haven't reported this issue so as far as we are concerned your system is functioning as normal and there is nothing further we can do."
He then went on to discredit the idea of a replacement system stating "the r2 mlk edition has a throttling issue with the i7 processors that we have so far been unable to correct so there is no guarantee you will be satisfied with a replacement system."

As you can imagine this went down like a sack of and i threatened to report this to trading standards. After my threat he seemed a little more compliant offering to send an ac adapter out to see if that fixes it and if not then it is a possibility that they will take further action.

The waiting game continues...

 

Ugh. Power adapter isn't going to solve anything, you know that. Get further ammo prepared.

 

I've recieved the adapter and obv it makes no diff what so ever.

Also i'm having second thoughts about whether or not a replacement would be a good thing.
I like the integrated gfx option and i've always had nvidia over ati, i've also got a 3.4 OC on my t9600 which is very stable and i'm quite pleased with and
I suppose i could live with having to use throttlestop before i start a game (not great but copable).

Also how much better is the screen on the r2? I have noticed the graineyness on my r1's but it's not a massive issue unless looking at a white page.

I guess what i'm asking is: Is an R2 with I7 and CF5870's (which i would make sure it had) going to perform MUCH better than my current rig and is it worth losing the int. gfx and battery life?

Just thought i'd get some advice before charging in and forcing them to replace it.

Anyone?

*EDIT*
Current Rig: t9600 @3.4ghz, SLI gtx 260m, 4gb ddr3

 

R1 will be and always be a piece of crap and batboy stop defending it cause its crap so many people have had a replacement for it. This is the flagship machine for dell and yet all we talk about it is replacing it damn. Dell can afford too replace everyones machines. These things are made for only like what 30 cents in China and then the 920 extreme processor is for them only like 100 bucks and then they charge us 1,000 for it!! I hate Nafta and Gaft! lol my R1 most of machine's parts is going to be replaced and then i am going to push to get that thing replaced to an R2 got plenty of excuses from them due to negligence. They will never truly fix the R1 unless we all push for fix for it by start to message team blackhawk and the reps on this forum, you want change then stand up for it and push for it! We all get the service tags we have and make a list of a petition to the reps on both here and team blackhawk with our names on it also of course. I encouraged the people on the m1730 lounge and now i shall do it here. I just wonder how many people are actually to walk to walk. Batboy dude you should just push for a R2 replacement.

 

@ Oogamer,

Some help if you please, as I am in a similar geographical situation to you, and in your shoes as of when you started this thread.

I am at the stage now, where I have had my R1 for around 6 months. I have waited patiently for these updates but nothing has helped. I still get the Audio/Video stuttering, and a nasty 10 minute system freeze every other day. How long have you had to spend on the phone to get this far? I am Brit Army overseas and I need to get this fixed, but any phone calls will cost me dearly!

In layman's terms what is the throttling issue you describe?

Wolverine

 

The throttling issue is basically that the system was designed with a very conservative power system. In other words when the system is under full load the power that the power brick/supply is allowed to supply isn't always enough so the system throttles the cpu to back down the power requirement.

In regards to the phone situation i have probably spent 5-6 hrs talking on the phone with most of my time being taken up trying to make them understand what the actual issue is.

I understand your situation is a bit more awkward than mine, being overseas and all. All i could suggest to cut your time down would be to read through the m17x stuttering thread from page 80 and use Rightmark cpu utility and throttlestop to make some logs and screenshots so u have some ammo to go in with right away.

I waited until they asked before sending them any evidence but if you get it ready before hand u might have a lot smoother time.

 

What would I be seeing during my day to day use if I had this symptom? I have been through the stuttering thread, updated my drivers umpteen times, but I still get a spike every so often. How much closer are you to a solution?

 

wolverine9314:

You would notice rapid FPS drops into single digits when gaming and then back to high FPS every few minutes
With me it usually occurs right when my GPU fans spin up to full and my CPU is overclocked.

This is not the same as the DPC spikes your referring to.