5870 x2 Crossfire Work-a-round Solution

So those of you having problems getting dual 5870s working, or Crossfire, or 5870x2, or w/e you want to call it . I have a solution that works.

You need to download 2 files from Dell support website:

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?c=us&cs=2684&l=en&s=pub&SystemID=Alw_M17xR2&os=W764&osl=EN

The first one is bios A02: Yes if you have A04 or A05 AND having problems, then you need to revert to A02 since it WILL recognize both cards AND boot with them in crossfire.

A02 Bios from dell: http://support.dell.com/support/dow...dateid=-1&formatid=-1&source=-1&fileid=383922


The next thing you have to do is, you must run dell's 5870 drivers. Here is the not so fun part, I couldnt get rid of the ATI 10.6 drivers I had previously installed without blowing away the o/s and starting fresh. I know they have the driver sweeper thing, that will pull the drivers off, but I didnt try that, others can weigh in on if that will work.

After you do a new os or delete the 10.6/10.5/10.4 drivers install the dell ones from the website, while they arent the newest, they definitely work like a champ. You'll see 16k+ in 3dmark06 with no lockups.

Hope this helps!

Jon

 

It appears that "Broadway XT" is the codename for the Radeon Mobility 5870. Based on these notes it seems like there has been a great deal of work getting XF5870 working. I am not sure what impact on your system bypassing the bios fixes would have. Certainly the bios updates were optiononal but not in the context of what you are doing. Whether this could have a negative impact on thermal readings and ultimately cooling I don't know. I look foreward to reading more about this. It remains to be seen whether Dell made these adjustements to prevent your GPU from overheating and frying or whether you have just unlocked a margin of error.

You just scored +1 rep for tenacity!

=================================================================

BIOS Release Notes

:================================================================
: BIOS File name : W851A05.ROM
: File size : 4,509,942 bytes
: BIOS Version : A05
: EC Version : 15.28
: CheckSum : 2CDD C4ED
: Release Date : 04/23/2010
:================================================================
BIOS:
1.Add an option of ¡§Intel(R) Virtualization Technology¡¨ in
BIOS setup menu to fix ¡§Can not run XP virtual mode¡¨ issue.


EC:
1. Support AMD Broadway MXM card used different thermal SMBUS address.




:================================================================
: BIOS File name : W851A04.ROM
: File size : 4,509,942 bytes
: BIOS Version : A04
: EC Version : 15.27
: CheckSum : 2CDE A72F
: Release Date : 04/12/2010
:================================================================
BIOS:
1. Add a workaround to fix "AMD DOS diag tool stop running"
issue on CFD CPU + dual Broadway XT system configuration.
EC:
1. Fix when battery is lower than 7.2V, the battery must need remove then insert
then system just can check the battery exist issue.
2. Support BWXT external thermal sensor.

:================================================================
: BIOS File name : W851A03.ROM
: File size : 4,509,942 bytes
: BIOS Version : A03
: EC Version : 15.26
: CheckSum : 2CDF E38D
: Release Date : 03/01/2010
:================================================================
BIOS:
1. Fix issue "The system halt during reboot with Arrandale CPU + Broadway VGA."
2.Support NV N11E to work on CFD and ARD CPU platform.
3.Fix the SVID and SSID sometimes can not be written to NV NE11E.
4.Support multi verb tables for N11E and Broadway/M98XT.
5.Remove NVIF method in ASL code per suggestion.
6. Disable the audio device of the slave AMD Broadway VGA card.
7. Add a workaround for AMD Broadway XT per suggestion.
(Disable PCI Express Completion Timeout on the root port)
8.Change IRQ No. from IRQA to IRQ5 for the 2nd N11E VGA in
DOS mode.

EC:
1. Fix AMD Broadway card external thermal sensor read issue.


:================================================================
: BIOS File name : W851A02.ROM
: File size : 4,509,942 bytes
: BIOS Version : A02
: EC Version : 15.25
: CheckSum : 2CE1 8CFA
: Release Date : 02/11/2010
:================================================================
BIOS:
None.(Just change the revision)

EC:
1. Modify AC adaptor over current de-bounce time, continuous 1 seconds then EC set MXM
to low power mode,if over 3 seconds then let CPU throttle.


:================================================================
: BIOS File name : W851A01.ROM
: File size : 4,509,942 bytes
: BIOS Version : A01
: EC Version : 15.22
: CheckSum : 2CE2 05A3
: Release Date : 01/22/2010
:================================================================
BIOS:
1.Disable USB full-speed/low-speed port staggering
according to Intel USB Sighting alert #3622166.
2.Add a mechanism to tell EC what graphic card in installed
for the usage of thermal table.

EC:
1. Fix issue - "TouchPad OSD icon always shows disabled by press Fn+F12 under DC mode."
2. Fix issue - "WLAN / BT function cannot be enabled / disabled by press WLAN button under DC."
3. Fix issue - "Webcam function cannot be enabled / disabled by press Fn+F9 under DC mode."
4. Support when OSD AP absent, EC will emergency system when below 3 condition.
(a) Battery discharge, battery current over 10A and keep 3minutes.
(b) Battery discharge, battery temperature over 65 degree C.
(c) Battery capacity low then 3% and does to doing shutdown or hibernation.
5. Support another media board control IC -MAXIM 7313D.
6. Modify code for AMD boardway GFX card and NV N11E thermal reading.
7. Implement CPU P-step control to replace the CPU clock throttle function.
8. Fixed when battery temperature over 57 degree no need to doing CPU throttle.
9. Modify CPU P-state control to CPU clock throttle control method.


:================================================================
: BIOS File name : W851A00.ROM
: File size : 4,509,942 bytes
: BIOS Version : A00
: EC Version : 15.20
: CheckSum : 2CD6 9E00
: Release Date : 12/18/2009
:================================================================
1.Initial release.

 

Perhaps you could select a better color then yellow?

Also I saw no cooling issues at all. Fans actually seem to run higher on a02 then a05. Also based on your 'yellow text' I dont see those items indicating better cooling, or even a change from how it cools.

Also my understanding is there was no official release of a03. From what you posted I see no significant gains from a05, unless you have those isolated issues they are saying 'fixes' those problems.

Personally I'd rather have my 5870s setup working then worrying about isolated conditions that do not apply to how I use my laptop. Certainly others can make such a decision for themselves too of course.

Thanks!

Jon

 

Sorry about the yellow font, I meant to have black text on yellow background but couldn't so switched to red. Blue would probably be better but that gets confusing as links are blue. Anyways good work.

 

It sounds like they were having problems with the measurement of temperature via thermal sensor. That would imply a software like GPU-Z might be giving false temperatures that would lead to card failure. MXM means you can switch graphics cards in a laptop. Why they needed to change the thermal address is an interesting question. There also appears that there was an issue with an AMD tool, CPU, and audio. There are numerous and far reaching changes. I have no idea why Dell made those changes and what implications rolling them back when combined with Catalyst Drivers would do.

 

I dont know how the gpu-z giving false temps will lead to a card failure? That tool doesnt set any speeds for the fans.

After reading the red text (much easier then the yellow, thanks) I see that some people might be encountering a few of those issues, I did not, so the a02 was perfect for me. I just know after someone spends that kind of money on a crossfire system, they want it to work. Dell thinks the cards are bad, and so they replace them, and then even the replacements do the same thing. Save the nightmare, do this configuration until possibly a06 comes out and fixes the incompatibility issues some are seeing with the a05, crossfire 5870 and non dell drivers.

Thanks for the open dialog on this.

 

I guess another question I have, is if A02 is so 'bad' (not saying thats what your saying), why is dell ONLY offering that one, as an alternative to A05 ??

Drivers and Downloads - Public Sector

There are no other versions they will let you download besides a05 or a02.

Food for thought.

Jon

 

It sounds like something was reading temperatures erroneously. Many people use GPU-Z for monitoring. But if someone is overclocking the GPU and they think the temp is say 70F when in actual fact it is 110F than they could run into problems.

 

I checked my system and could only find the A02 and A05. The problem is probably not the video cards or Dell but rather a lack of overall power. Most desktop PSU are 400-1600 these days for gaming systems. Perhaps they found that by letting the GPU's go full boar that they found the 250w PSU lacked power which may cause other problems for system hardware.

I think the next step for gaming laptops would be a docking station with 5970's and PSU built in. That way the laptop would be lighter for travel and more powerful when you want to use it as a desktop. Not sure if they would ever do that though as the cost would go through the roof.

 

I dont think the power supply is the issue/case in this situation. They work perfectly fine with a02 and stock settings. Sure if you OC them it might need more, but stock the 250 brick seems to work just fine.

Anyone who is having issues, should certainly try this.

 

You have raised a good question, "why is the A04" not available for download. My first M17X R2 which was single Broadway came with an A04 and the second Broadway was CF and came with the A05. Do people with a single Broadway have a choice of A04 to download I wonder? The possible reason for excluding A04 could be that their is a conflict with the dual cards or perhaps A05 includes code to lock out Catalyst which would benefit Dell at the expense of their customers.

 

The 5870 CF takes more power than the 4870 CF.

What a lot of people don't realize is that GPU's are already clocked to the max at the factory. This is true for desktops GPU as well. When you hear about say a 5970 OC they are usually adding a water block or fan. The market for GPU is obviously highly competative and they are not going to leave a lot of power off the factory settings. On the other hand they offer you overclocking tools as a come on to prospective customers. Most people looking to serious overclock will add additional cooling but with a laptop that is hard to do. Still trying to figure out how to add a water block. Perhaps we should have a contest.

When you play deep base on speakers using a tiny amp you clip the sound. This causes the coils in the speakers to heat up and damage. It usually happens with little warning. If electronics in a laptop are starved for power compenents will draw too much current and damage as well. When you add up all the compenents there is little margin for error with power.

Some people have suggested that there is a 15% gain to be had with the 5870 CF if unleashed. This is pretty much the same thing as saying overclocking. Technically speaking you have not overclocked your system but you have tricked it in a way which pretty much does the same thing and for that I say congratuatlions.

 

I dont see that though, the settings for the cards are not being changed, so I dont see how they can be considered 'over clocked.' Its just allowing the system to see them now, with a02, when some people are reporting the system not allowing them to boot up when 2 cards are in with A05, but boots up fine with 1 card. So for some reason a02 allows the boot of both, and I THINK a04 might as well, but cant confirm, since I couldnt find a good safe copy of a04 to flash with.

For a while there was like 5-10 threads all talking about getting 5870x2 working in the m17x-r2, or at least people explaining they were have issues. They seemed to have fallen off the main page, but I'm guessing people are just waiting for the fix. I offer this one as a work-a-round until Dell get their stuff right

Jon

 

The Catalyst Drivers by nature do change various GPU settings but I understand your point. They improve driver efficiency but may also provide a performance enhancement or boost in some cases. My thinking is that you can't increase your benchmark without somehow taxing your GPU. The only way to reduce stress would be to remove heat somehow but the cooling method is the same. Similarily if you increase the HP of your car there has to be some additional heat/stress on the engine. Perhaps the latest bios was written in such a way to keep the 5870's from reaching their full potential. Perhaps Dell thought the lastest Catalyst Mobility would just push the 5870 CF too hard. All this is speculation of course because I can't get a straight answers when talking to either company. Your guess is as good as mine. Another thought is that there could be a driver conflict between Catalyst and Dell hardware/software. Perhaps someone should start a poll as to whether Catalyst 10.7 will work with Alienware dual 5870.

Sound familiar

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=131766

 

This definitely works !! Rep + !!!

 

My M17xr2 Crossfire 5870 should be arriving soon, and I'm curious what the deal is with the Crossfire cards. What's wrong with them?

I'm not up to the same level as you guys as far as expertise here goes, so forgive my naivety.

 

There should be no need for A02 to make your Crossfire system work properly. There's several threads on how to reinstall the drivers should you need to. A02 is a fairly old bios and I wouldn't recommend using it.

 

Only an issue for the guys who had the 4870s originally or a single 5870 and upgraded to the 5870x2 later. Shipped directly from dell, originally configured with 5870s should NOT be a problem. Hope that helps.

Jon

 

Can you give a link to the solution that allows a05 to work when guys have a 5870 crossfire system that wont boot, and only lights up the keyboard, but wont boot into bios? But then when you pull the second card out, it boots just fine? How do THESE guys get it working. Its definitely not based on having the newest ATI drivers, as you never even get to windows.

This solution works, even if you dont like the '2 month old bios.' I've seen no other solution to the situation I just explained. Please show me the link that does.

Thanks!

Jon

 

Ahh. That puts my mind at ease. Thanks!

 

Congratulations on your purchase. AMD controls desktop GPU architecture to their specifications. Alienware modifies their specifications for their mobile GPU's. In some cases with certain configurations of Alienware the Catalyst Mobility Drivers do not install (and uninstall) correctly. Be warry of trying them unless there is a major consensus that they work. The 10.6 drivers do not work on the 5870 CF.

 

So essentially I should just avoid messing with the default drivers that come with my unit? Wasn't planning on it anyway

 

Whether you're upgrading from 4870s or not should make no difference. It's all the same hardware. Google how to install 10.5's, there's been a few threads on that lately. There's absolutely no need for the A02 bios.

 

I think you are missing the point, forget about the ATI drivers, you wont even get to them because your system wont even BOOT UP with dual 5870s. IF you havent had this issue then you dont really know what I am talking about, it looks like someone revived the other threads where people were having this issue, those are the people who can benefit from this.

 

Vipers right. I had 2 different m17x system both came with a05 bios and 4870s in XF. Tried putting 5870s in and both did the same thing. Locked up black screen Lights on. Converting to A02 bios did work. Not going to try to convert back to A05 now though... scared might lock up/brick/etc. Already gave you props Viper.

 

I also installed the new 10.6 drivers from AMD site... no problems when loading up SC2 beta. No other games to test it on really. Waiting on SC2 and D3.

Anywayz tried to run Heaven and got a black/blank screen after I hit "run" so maybe its not stable... but everything else works fine. No way out the black screen but holding down power button. Tried alt tab, alt f4, ctrl alt delete, esc etc... have to hard shutdown. Maybe i'll try another benchmark program, maybe just let it chill since i finally got em to work. My problem is that i always wanna push more and more. 3 weeks to finally get the cards installed... and i go and install 10.6 drivers just to have the latest drivers. Might even try to revert back to A05 just cause im hard headed... I do have 2 m17x right here now, so if i break one.... guess the other goes back.

 

Did you remove the battery and do a power drain when you put the new cards in? Like I said, to my knowledge, there hasn't been a motherboard revision so there's no reason the 5870s shouldn't work in A05 for you guys.

 

lol. of course I did this, TONS of times, if you read above you see Celest had this problem, and it is he and a few others that I have helped with this fix. You didnt have this isolated problem so this fix seems incorrect to you, but I assure you it is the solution for a number of guys right now.

 

Then you need to RMA your system because clearly it's not functioning as it should. Same goes for the other guy. There's no reason your system should not work with 5870 xfire using A05. PM erwaneila and ask him about it.

 

Don't follow me on this one I don't even have an r2 but I remember that when someone tried a rgb led on a r1 it wouldn't work until the CMOS baterry was removed for 30 sec. perhaps if you swap from 4870s to 5870s you need to do the same

 

Have attached an interesting article (below) about Dell modifying bios as a work around solution for faulty Nvidia cards. If Dell has used bios updates to modify the thermal control of Nvidia GPU in the past than perhaps the latest bios (A05) modifys the Catalyst drivers thermal control which causes a conflict. The A05 has many Broadway XT fixes many of them thermal. Can Dell simply instruct the bios to override the Catalyst drivers and disable them? Is the issue the catalyst driver or is the issue the bios? Perhaps the latest bios modifications are preventing the catalyst drivers 10.6 from working properly on Alienware M17x R2 with 5870 CF.

Dell Releases BIOS Updates for Failing Nvidia GPUs

 

Just a heads up I tried the CMOS battery thing, and I held that sucker down forever just to make sure it was Drained. Still didnt work when installing the 5870s. Once again if YOU GUYS GOT YOUR SYSTEMS WITH 5870s in XF it probably was working and still works. If you ORIGINALLY got a system with 4870s IN XF... and tried to upgrade to 5870s in XF. Most likely you got this problem. If you are one of the few who just happened to upgrade with A05 bios already installed and it worked for you please post here. Cause I just dont believe it. I had a NEW brand NEW system sent out 3 days ago to me, but these fuc*ers sent me 4870s again. Same problem on both systems. Your telling me I got 2 broke systems that need to be RMA? Please get outta here with that. When the bios was changed it worked right away. So there's gotta be a problem/alteration/configuration with the bios. It's a FACT if you cant get with that... iono what else to say. I've had different 5870s sent out, ive had different entire m17x r2's sent out. I'm an MIS/IT major as well if that gives me any more credit than a noob with a screwdriver.

Just a note, not mad at anyone or upset, the way I think is strictly LOGICAL and I like to state the facts. In my world if something is wrong I fix it. Thanks again to all the people whos been helping with 5870s xf problem, the bios problems and the driver problems. Pretty soon all this wont even be a memory it'll be a new thread. BTW my 3008 WFP 30 inch comes tomorrow. GG NO REPLY

P.S. I hate it when the moderator/system whatever takes out my profanity. Emotions are put into words to be felt. So feel it.

 

Joker I messaged you a while back for help. Thanks for the NO-reply. I'm sure you were busy or just overlooked it.

~Go ahead, cuz I aint mad at cha~ Tupac

 

You can keep 'the good fight' up CelstialSin if you like. I explained how people can get this to work, which I thought was VERY VALUABLE, after they spent a decent coin on buying upgraded 5870s for their 4870 system and they didnt work. It was not because the 5870s were bad, or their current laptop was bad. There is SOMETHING different about the 4870x2 configured systems vs the newer released 5870x2 factory configured systems.

Those that have not experienced this issue really have no justification for arguing with us that we are wrong. I fixed the problem and it works. If you try to RMA your system they will send you ANOTHER 4870x2 setup and once again you will have this SAME issue when you put the 5870s in that system. Or they will send you new 5870s to put back into your current sytem, saying it must be those that are broke, and again the NEW set will do the same damn thing.

Arguing with people over this is a moot point, I know the fix works, it helps those that are pulling out their hair trying to get a very expensive setup to work. It was VERY disheartening when I was having these problems myself, I am just glad I could help relieve some of the anxiety for people who were having this problem, but now have a workable solution.

As a side note, the system that I did a02 and stock dell drivers, out performed my brand new direct from dell, a05 5870x2 system, by about 500 points in 3dmark06. Sure its 'negligible' but it was still a 500 point gain that I think anyone would have wanted.

GL with this for others, I am done defending that these systems are NOT broken, they just require a bios update from Dell is my guess. I'll let them sort out the long term solution, I have given folks the short term one.

Jon

 

I feel you. But anyhow, did you ever try to convert back to A05 after u got the stuff to work with the A02 bios? or did you just stop messing around with the system and returned it to just get a new one?

 

I did more work and have more insight, but whats the point in sharing it when its met with resistance. I did NOT return the system, I don't think its broke what-so-ever. Not enough people have upgraded to 5870s from their 4870s to know that this issue exists. More will see in time.

 

Fwiw, when i ordered the 5870s from dell i specifically asked them if there was a MB revision, and was quoted by a supposed supervisor that there was no difference between the MB in systems that came with 4870s Vs newer systems with the 5870s and that they should drop right in without issue or having to update the bios if i was running A05, and if i did have a problem that i should call, at which time an Rma would be issued if an amicable resolution couldn't be provided.

unfortunately my order was flagged to be delayed due to lack of stock, so i canceled it. had i received them and i had this issue i wouldn't have accepted a roll back to a different bios as a solution, and im sure AW support would agree. as for the benchmark differences i would count on them being to reliable unless you ran a series of each one, like i did when i first installed the 10.6 drivers on my machine.

you shouldn't feel to slighted by people questioning the method, there are like 5 threads pertaining to the 5870 issues and our nature is to question something being resolved a way that others have tried & failed at. i wouldn't take it personally. if your comfortable using the method then you should, i think the whole idea of the forum is to get as much info as possible from as many different perspectives and come to a conclusion based on that info, if it were any different we wouldn't learn anything IMo.

 

I have upgraded from a 5870CF CF4870 with A05 bios.
At the start I had no problems.
I had to reinstall the system unable to install the drivers DELL - ATI
CF 5870.
Flickering Now I have problems when I run games with Crossfire.
Anyone have the A04 Bios?
Where can I flash to A02 to see if the problems are solved.

 

I'm working on obtaining a 5870 crossfire configuration and will attempt to duplicate this once I do. Specific steps to reproduce would be very helpful if not already here (I haven't read everything in detail yet)...

Thanks.

 

The A05 BIOS is quite buggy. It will prevent the installation of ATi's official mobility drivers even on the Radeon 4870 Crossfire. And with the 5870 the A05 BIOS appears to be even worse.

 

Hey guys. I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but didn't pay much mind because I own an 4870 equipped R1. I've got a 5870 equipped R2 on the way now. Will it show up in working condition, or am I going to need to perform these steps?

 

it will work just fine. the workaround is for r2's that shipped with 4870s& were upgraded. i wouldn't worry to much about it. id skip right to the setfsb thread!

 

Hi turbodTalon.

Since your new R2 is on its way here is a post I thought you would find interesting.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m17x/496451-ugh.html

*Your system should work perfectly out of the box. If not return it immediately. Do not except an exchange from the service center, order a new one online. This is why I order online through chat because it established email contact for easy follow ups and returns.

*You have 21 days to return your computer in the USA. People who change bios/drivers/clock/electric/ and run into trouble in the first few weeks will not know whether they have bad hardware or not.

*If you tinker with your settings in the first 21 days and than run into trouble 22+ days out you will end up with used parts on your new computer. They will just swap used parts if you mess up the graphic card drivers and bios.

 

Thanks guys. I'm reformatting it the instant it arrives, and then I'll start beating the hell out of it. If there's a weakness I'll find it. Thanks for the prompt replies. Set FSB still doesn't stick after a reboot, does it? That's the only thing I don't like about it.

 

nah its not like the old days =),.....well now i remember joker saying something about it. you might be able to use the auto on function..i don't see why it wouldn't work with the new SetFSB revision.

whatcha doin with the REd Demon?

 

It will be getting sold. I'm trying to sell it to a buddy at work, but I don't know if he'll come through with the money.

What did you end up doing with the M17?

 

Too many problems, work arounds, adjustments, tweaks with this system. Gettin an ALX-51 Instead LOADED in a week. After thinking about it, when im gaming I'd rather be on a desktop. If i wanna get portable, I'll get an m11x. Still love to everyone with the m17x, I just dont wanna deal with it anymore.

 

Watch the video on 1 and tell me your not thinking the same. Dual 5970s with 2 gig of ddr5 ram running Xfire... 6 core i7 processor. GG NO REPLY

 

if only it was a laptop

So did you return yours to dell for a full refund?

 

So has anyone seen a fix for this yet? The A02 is limited and I would like to have the fixes that the later BIOS's have. I called Dell/aw but it got escalated and they are supposed to call me back.