6990M vs 580M - Switching/Optimus and Throttling Questions.

I'm going to be ordering an M17x R3 within the next week or so and have pretty much decided on the following specs:

• Intel® Core™ i7 2760QM 2.4GHz (3.5GHz w/Turbo Boost, 6MB Cache)
• Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit (I'll upgrade to Ultimate myself)
• 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1600MHz (I'll upgrade to 8/16GB myself)
• 750GB 7,200RPM HDD (Planning to add a 250/256GB SSD myself)
• 17.3-inch WideFHD 1920 x 1080 60Hz WLED
• Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 a/g/n 3x3 MIMO
• Slot-Loading Dual Layer Blu-ray Reader
• 4 Year Advanced Plan

I was set on getting the 6990M as it clearly offers the best value (performance to cost), however I've read numerous reports of issues with drivers, problems updating and that the AMD drivers don't include support for Dynamic Switching. To be honest I'd rather have something that just works.

On the other hand, the 580M has issues with throttling. I've seen a couple of solutions posted but do not want to invalidate my warranty.

So, I guess my questions are;

1. Will future official AMD drivers support Dynamic Switching, meaning I don't have to use the Dell drivers and then update over the top, hoping it works and having to do multiple installs/uninstalls if it doesn't?

2. Can the 580M throttling issue be reliably and safely overcome without invalidating the warranty?

3. Do the official Nvidia drivers support Optimus without having to install the Dell drivers first?

4. Are there any other known issues/quirks with either card?

Thanks
Chez

 

1. We may never know.
2. Yes, they released a new "Officially supported by Dell" vBios you can flash, and one of our notable members widezu made a guide to increase the limits.
3. Yes, as long as you get the non 3D version, all the driver will(should) support Optimus.
4. A few reports of 6990's burning out/ You already know about the throttling, thats about it.

 

Thanks for that zoolian982

So basically, I have the choice of 6990M - less $$$, fussy drivers, no official driver support for dynamic switching and a few cases of burning out (warranty covers this so not too worried) or 580M - more $$$ and would have to modify it once to overcome throttling.

Why can't anything just work? lol

 

It's not technically modifying it though. Your updating it with something dell gave to the public on their support site. And adjusting the numbers a little bit. Plus you can -/+ volt and as long as you set up proper airflow, you shouldnt hit the throttle temp.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...ttling-m17x-r3-580m-without-120hz-screen.html
This would be the only solution to remove throttling, as i cant imagine flashing a modified , dell unapproved vBios on your card wont void your Warranty. The BIOS solution described in the Link uses the official unchanged A08 Dell BIOS.

 

It's better to use this to alleviate any fears since that is using a blind flash method.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...idia-geforce-460m-580m-560m-see-post-1-a.html

 

So, to confirm - I can update both the BIOS and vBIOS with official Dell updates and it will remove the throttling?

Isn't there still an issue with thermal throttling at 79c?

Also, I saw a post somewhere stating that official Nvidia drivers won't work. Something to do with the inf being specific to Dell?

 

Or... buy my 6970m unit
Kidding aside, I was looking forward to the 6990m upgrade until I found these kind of threads...

 

There aren't any guarantees with the vbios flash either. if you're gonna get the 580m, best to also consider a thermal repaste with a quality thermal paste and new thermal pads. This will help to keep the temps down. If you don't hit the thermal border, you won't throttle.

The new official vbios from Dell still thottles, but not as severely.

Personally, i've never had any issues with the AMD drivers. I install and they work. I think it really depends on what method you use to install the drivers

 

There's no point upgrading a 6970 to 6990. i think the performance is too close. you might as well wait for the 7800's coming soon

 

Must be a good idea to skip this 6900's generation.
I've received multiple similar advice.
Anyway goodluck to the OP (take the 6990, save dollars for upgrades later while you enjoy your games NOW )

 

Yes, there will still be throttling, and I forgot to mention that you should look into aftermarket pads and paste. Don't worry, dell never notices them often.

If you REALLY want to remove throttling, try the blind flash method mentioned. I currently use the unlocked A04(Non dell approved) bios and it seems to work fine for me. I never had throttling issues even after playing crysis 2 w/ all its updates + dx11 + high res. I'd say my highest temp so far was 65-70C ish.

 

i assume that you've already overclocked your 6970, right? So you'll have almost 6990 performance.

The 7800's will be fast but me personally, i'm waiting for the 7900's before i upgrade. They will contain Rambus XDR2 ram which has twice the bandwidth of DDR5 and uses 30% less power (hence less heat). Now that is a worthy upgrade in my books

 

Back to your original questions.

 

That is not accurate at all from what I've seen. Even with its stock paste and pads, my 6990M never really got past about 80C. After repasting and repadding, it peaks at around 72C after sustained 100% load. Since I assume the 74C max temp you state is also after a repaste/repad, the temps under load look to be about equal.

I've also seen enough feedback and temps from other 6990M users to know that my case is pretty typical as far as temps go. I've even seen some examples of load temps in the high 60's C from people using different pastes or who did a better job than I did. You have to manually control the fan to do that though, since the highest fan speeds don't normally kick in until 70C.

 

ValkerieFire, you get 74c max temps on your 580m with the stock thermal paste and pads?

 

I'm not using stock paste but using stock pads. My temps max out under 70C when gaming on stock, they max out at 75C when using 800/1800

 

I logged my gpu temps recently...after 2 hrs of Crysis 2 DX11 on Ultra, my max temp was 75c...6990m @ 800/1100 (12% OC on GPU and 20% OC on DDR5)

This is after a repaste with IC diamond 7 and back of laptop raised up 1 inch via DIY laptop stands

 

So how are you getting a 12% overclock on your 2630QM?

 

ooops Sorry...meant GPU... post corrected

 

Bummer. I was hoping for a new CPU tweak.

 

LOL...have you bumped the BCLK on your 2820?

I'm curious about how much of an OC it will take. I have a 2820 coming next week

 

Am on a 2 week old R3 with GTX 580m with 269.03 drivers.

So should i update to 280.26 whql or the beta? I have tried the beta 285 one from nvidia and it installed fine. But upon restart the aero peek cannot seem to work and when i launch firefox, it does not allow me to "right" click.

I have since used system restore to go back to 269.03

Thing is, did i install it correctly? Do i need to uninstall the 269.03 after installing new drivers? Or is 280.26 more stable?

 

Tried early, but my 2820Q does not like the BCLK bumped up at all, so I concluded that discretion was the better part of valor.

 

It is accurate, but I am using Furmark to evaluate maximum temps. See this post here. http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...tato-significantly-hotter-than-my-6970-a.html

This is with the laptop flat on a desk. The 6990m easily gets over 90C. And that is with an ICD repaste. My gaming temps were similar to yours, in the mid 70s. Games are not as good an evaluation of temperatures because loads vary depending on levels, settings, etc. Furmark is 100% load all the time. That being said, it is an absolute worse case scenario, so you know your games will never get that hot.

 

I installed the 280.26 on my wife's Asus G73 and its completely stable so i'd definitely give it a shot. I didn't do any uninstall, just installed over the previous driver

 

I believe my max gaming temp was around 74C, but that may have been a vantage benchmark at stock clocks, I cannot remember. I am using ICD and stock pads. I have never really paid much attention to the 580s temps because it is limited to the 79C throttle regardless.

I will test today with a round of Black Ops and update again.

Also I have been using 280.26 since I got my 580m without issues.

 

Install the 285.38 beta. They are really good. Remember to use the advanced option and do a clean install.

 

My temps are also from Furmark, via the same test (actually, I often run furmark and prime95 at the same time to get both the CPU and GPU pegged). They are generally in the 72-74C region after that amount of time, probably more like 74-76C with it flat on the desk. I'm not sure what accounts for the difference, but I've seen multiple other furmark results for the 6990M that are not anywhere near 90C.

I can run it again and take screenshots if you like.

 

Screen shots would be cool. Is yours undervolted? If what you say is correct, maybe my card was bad from the get go. It died, maybe that is why.

 

Ah, I didn't know yours died, yeah that could be an indicator. 90C is awfully hot.

I'll see if I can run some again when I get home.

 

Thanks for all the info guys/gals. Quite a lot to take in.

I think I'm gonna go with the 6990M and work out any driver issues.. seems worth it considering the 580M isn't without its own set of problems.

Reading between the lines, is the 6970 overclockable to 6990 speeds without any issues?

Presumably the same driver issues are present with that card too?

 

you'll need a 20% OC on the 6970 to match the stock 6990 so its doable, but you have to watch your temps for everyday

 

10CHARACTERS

 

The only game I had a problem with on the 285.38 drivers was the new Deus Ex. It would just freeze up every 20-30 minutes. Fair warning if you are playing that game right now. 280.26 works fine with it.

Other than that, I didn't have any issues with it.

 

Also consider that you can overclock a 6990M the same 20%, so there is a performance difference no matter how you slice it.

 

Here you go.



I didn't let mine run quite as long as yours, but you can see that the curve is completely different. Mine dropped down quickly as soon as the fan came up, where yours did not have that drop.

It topped out at 79C on startup, but that's only because the fan is slow to spin up and I didn't manually set it to 100% before starting. Once stabilized, the temp eventually crept up to 72C (just before I stopped it). If I had let mine run another 5 minutes it would've maybe got to 73 or 74C tops. This is with the laptop flat on a table by the way, no cooler.

Oh, and no I'm not undervolted. This is stock voltage and clock rates. Only thing I have done is repaste with MX-4 and replace the pads with fujipoly.

 

Well that is impressive, maybe my card was a total dud. I will update my hot potato post and link it here. EDIT: Updated.

I guess in conclusion we can say the 6990m and 580m are pretty similar when it comes to thermal properties.

Also I checked my 580m temps. Playing Crysis 2 at max settings with a 800/1800 OC (about 23%) lead to a max temp of 69C. The 74C temp I posted the other day was actually a Vantage benchmark at the same clock speeds. I think it is safe to assume a 580m at stock clocks will never go over 69C in any gaming environment.

 

After 10 mins of furmark extreme burn in:
My 6990m GPU temps is hovering around 69-70c

i just repasted GPU yesterday with OCZ Freeze Extreme and it seems to be cooler than IC7

TostitoBandito's numbers look very normal to me and is probably the normal numbers for a repasted 6990m

 

Yeah, my guess is that the chip was either defective, or the fan/heatsink was. It shot up crazy high in your Furmark screenshot without the fan making a dent at all really. That's probably what mine would look like if I disabled my fan and ran a bench.

One more note as well. Overclocking doesn't appreciably increase my 6990M temps either. Running at 830/1200, I get basically the same temps. Maybe 1-2 C higher.

 

i might as well post this since i just took a screen shot of my furmark run for another post

After 4 mins of furmark burn-in test, 6990m at stock clocks, my temps are hovering around 67c...my max temps was 72c before the fan kicked in which dropped the temps back down

 

I might have to repaste again just for fun one of these days.

It was my first repaste job so I figure odds are I can do better. How was the OCZ stuff to work with compared to the ICD? I used MX-4 instead of ICD on my first go-around due to ICD's thickness and tendency to scrape off lasered-on chip markings.

 

Bandito, what paste did you use?

 

You caught me while I was editing my post above.

I used MX-4.

 

OCZ freeze was a breeze to work with! Its very good paste. Ya, i gave the rest of my IC diamond 7 tube away. It does alter the heatsink surface so i won't use that stuff again.

I've just got my hands on some Prolimatech PK-1. Apparently the best thermal paste in the world. I'm reserving it for when my CPU comes in next week from ShirleyFu's

 

Apparently, the somewhat dubiously named "HeGrease" is very good as well

 

ah yes, the Phobya. i would love to try it, but I can't get that stuff here

 

It's available in the US, I'm sure you could get it shipped to Canada?

 

From the benchmarks and reviews I've read, PK-1 seems to be very similar to MX-4 in ease-of-use and performance, with perhaps a small edge in performance. I'll probably just repaste again with MX-4 and see if I can get better contact. I have no desire to use ICD and ruin my chips and heatsinks.

 

probably...but i already have too much thermal paste in my office lol...currently, i have AS5, PK-1, MX-2, MX-4, ICD-7 and OCZ Freeze lol

So if i got the phobya, i don't know what i would do with it