Advice on replacing MOBO for M17xR3 and possibly gtx560 vidcard

Looks like my MOBO died recently. Dell support agrees with the assessment (won't power on, and when adapter is plugged in, the adapter cable light goes out). With my previous experience with Dell products, I'm starting to wonder if they have some magic technique to make things die right after the warranty expires. Just don't think a laptop that cost over 3K should have a MOBO that just goes kaput after a couple years. Anyhow, I'm looking at replacing the board. Here are some questions I have. I appreciate any advice folks could offer.

1. Could this have been caused by heat? I was having excessive heat issues with the 560 card in 3d games. It would essentially step-down and produce really sluggish performance until the heat dropped down a bit again. Again, for a 3k+ gaming rig this did not seem like something I should have had to deal with. Anyhow, I'm wondering if heat could have had something to do with it. I read that heat was a problem on those models. So, in addition to a new MOBO, I'm thinking I should upgrade the video card. Dell support recommends the gtx 580. They don't promise anything else will work. But I've read some other discussion here that suggest otherwise. So, what would be other cards that I should consider? I desire to have a step up in performance and a step down in heat output. The really high end cards are not an option. I'd be willing to spend a few hundred for this, but not 1k for the 780 (or whatever it's going for now).

2. Is it possible that it was something other than the MOBO that went out? like the CPU or video card? When it died I had 2nd external monitor attached (in case that is useful information). I'm just cautious about spending $300 for a new MOBO only to find that the problem is elsewhere.

3. Since I'm going to try to replace this MOBO, should I consider some sort of upgrade? And if so, what is worth considering. I've read some old posts/debates on this on the forum. Dell says there are no upgrades because of the form-factor of course.

Thanks again to anyone who has the knowledge and experience, and takes the time to help me out on this.

 

Hi there, well put .

One thing to know is that the price of these machines relates to the high-performance, low yield components and not a measure of quality. IMO the full length warranty should be built into the costs of the machine. It can save you a lot of money because the parts are often being pushed to their limits with higher failure rates.

Anyhoo, to your questions .

The overheating you have been experiencing could have been a cause, did you try anything to check that problem out before it died?

As to what GPU to get, I'll stick with Nvidia since I know their cards. Depends on how much work you are prepared to put in? Basically you can use any MXM card BUT only cards sold with a particular model work seamlessly, plug and play. This limits you to a 580m. Quite a step-up but a notoriously bad card for failures. I have had three 'go' on me! Best bang for your buck IMO is the 680m. There is work you need to do with the BIOS and drivers but it's fairly straightforward. Just ask if the GPU is in your price bracket .

It could be a lot of parts I'm afraid. All it appears to show is a dead short somewhere . I'm assuming the power brick has been proved to be OK? - Even that can go bad when current is drawn and shut down, although not common. I'd remove the video card altogether just to see if it starts then? It might be the GPU and that would be a good failure, if there is such a thing .

If you removed the CPU and powered up it should just give you a beep code but you will know that it could be the cause if the PSU stays lit (unlikely IMO). Another problem that confuses things is that removing components to test reduces the load on the PSU and circuitry so it might appear to work and not be indicative of the root cause.

This is why Dell would send a MB and PSU to start with. Then GPU, although if you say it was overheating it would be included at the first attempt. A very expensive path I'm afraid but changing both MB and GPU has a good chance of hitting the problem.

The 680m is dropping in price quite a bit, I recently picked one up for under £250.00 (Usually USD are same numbers) and I've been told there are lower price around now .

Good luck.

HTH

 

Thanks for the great suggestions. Looks like I can do some testing with this advice.

No, it's not the brick.. I tried the spare. Same issue. You are right, if it is just the GPU that would be great. I'd even be willing to get the 680 at to fix it. A quick search for me comes up with prices as low as $380. A bit more than I'm wanting to spend, but if it's just the GPU, that would be no problem. If I'm also looking at replacing the MB, then I don't want to spend as much on the GPU right now.

Thanks again.

 

You're very welcome, just hope it produces results!

I understand the money issue though. You have to work on a worst case scenario, and the worry of a money-pit is always there when you have a dead machine .

You could actually call Dell anyway. They will tell you your warranty has expired but they have fixed price repair options for out-of-warranty machines. Of course it ain't cheap but assuming a worst case you get all the parts WITH a limited warranty so it might be an option? From there you can decide if you can afford the upgrade and when .

 

Yea, I could use Dell. I think I'll try to repair it myself. I'm comfortable repairing desktops. Just not used to the smaller form-factor of laptops. But part of why I bought the Alienware was the assumption (not fully correct) that it would be easier to upgrade than others. If I run into problems, then I'll get help from someone with more experience in laptops. Anyway, Dell doesn't even carry the MB anymore, and referred me to a 3rd party. I asked them for a quote, but apparently they don't want new business, since they have not replied to me.

So, what's your opinion of trying a MB upgrade? I've read some here discuss the hits and misses of this idea. I'm content with the speed of the system as it was (as long as the GPU is not stepping down because of heat).

Next time you are outside, wave a big hello to the U.K. for me. It's been about 24 years since I was there, but I really enjoyed that visit.

And I have the ability to spend more on that high end GPU, but not the conscience for it. I like gaming, but there's a limit to what I can justify spending with a clear conscience.

 

Great, I completely understand . I treat it as a hobby with (highish) costs .

Since you know a lot of the 'soft' problems that can occur it's not unreasonable to do it yourself.

If it still will not start with the GPU out then you will have to bite the bullet and go for a Mobo.

As for Dell, that's where R3 owners with warranty can really score. It often happens that they get a brand-new model, as I did, when parts are no longer available!

Glad you liked it here, I've only recently returned from 10 years in the US where I had a great time. Where are you at?

 

Good news. I yanked the GPU, and the system does start and utters some healthy beeps. Looks like an easier fix, and an easier justification to upgrade the video card.

Yes the extended warranty makes sense in such cases. I had a part on a Dell that got replaced for free while under warranty... same part went out again 2 years later when it wasn't covered. Usually, I avoid warranties under the theory that if most parts go bad, they usually go bad in the first 6 months. I'm starting to think this may not be the case with laptop electronics, because of the various stresses involved.

So, I'm gonna look for a good deal on that 680M, hopefully something better than the $760 on Amazon. I like that it's got a 25% lower TDP than my existing card. Honestly, lower heat is the main thing I'm looking for. I was never able to really use the 560 to its full potential because of the heat problem. Hopefully, the bios and driver tweaking won't be too problematic.

It's interesting that google doesn't seem to do a great job returning just laptop (MXM?) items on a search for "GTX 680M". I'm sure if I poke around this forum I can find some nice laptop parts distributors, in order to find a better deal.

I'm in Phoenix, AZ area these days, though I used to live in Southern California. When I was in Britain, I was mainly in Birmingham. I'll bet that town has changed a lot in 20 years. I'd rather be there than here right now. This is our season for suck-the-life-out-of-you heat and city-blaniketing dust storms.

 

Excellent, you have probably found what you need to replace. I am a little concerned you said it just beeps though. Without the GPU card it should startup on the Intel iGPU on-board .

The only time you should get video failure beeps (8 if I remember right) is if you have a 120hz display. The intel is disabled in those models. It does have an advantage with upgrading though. Since the iGPU is disabled you don't need to find an unlocked bios to force dgpu boot - needed if the GPU is not on the model list. The driver tweaking is just finding a single file and replacing an original one (laptopvideo2go). There are also instructions on search and replace strings if you edit it yourself in threads here.

There is a marketplace on NBR that gets good feedback and ebay is probably the easiest way to find a cheaper one. I was the only bidder on mine and I did communicate with the seller to get a feel for the likelihood it was not good . Example reseller: Nvidia GeForce Dell GTX 680M 2GB DDR5 for clevo Alienware upgrademonkey | eBay.

I never got over to the west side. I lived in DC so real seasons, if a little extreme sometimes. The six foot of snow the first winter I was there was a real eye opener for me - used to wimpy weather that never hurts!

I knew Birmingham quite well back in those days, my mom came from there. It's gone the way of a lot of areas in countries that have large immigrant populations. 'Like' people like to gather together and Birmingham now has it's own strong cultural demographic that is far from it's roots (and underfunded by government).

Don't envy you that weather but at least everywhere has A/C

Good luck in your hunt

 

If the 120hz is associate with the 3d vision, then that may be the case. I think I read in some upgrade somewhere that they cuoldn't get the 3d to work with non-specified newer cards. That's no big deal, since I never found myself using the 3d much.

Thanks for the ebay tip. I too found several posts from upbgrademonkey there that I put on my short list. Theirs seems to be one of the highest rated vendors I found there. There are some refurbs, and a no-box item from China I came across, but I think I'll pay the extra to make sure I'm getting a good product. I am really liking how accessible the parts are on these Alien rigs.

Yea, I expected the demographics to have changed quite a bit in Birmingham over the years. I was with a group doing some short-term teaching in RE classes and even then one could see a good bit of cultural change taking place. It was interesting to observe how the Muslim and Sikh kids seemed to gang up against the Hindu kids then. Maybe that was just an anomaly at the school where we taught. Movements of people bring changes. Some fun and benign, some worrisome. People in Asia probably said the same sort of thing when Europeans started showing up. I expect that European notions of pluralism are what are really being tested more than anything else. But, would you want to live in a Britain without curry?

 

Yes, the 120hz display is on the 3D models and I'm not surprised you hardly used it with a 560m. It must have only just managed! This 680m (supported in the R4) had gives 3D a new lease of life and I'm loving it for game replay time.

It (120hz) has a couple of downsides, shorter battery life and you can't just remove the GPU to test the rest of the system fully as it won't start .

The upsides are what sold me on this though. No optimus messing with my gaming - easy enough to fix but a problem I'd rather not have at all, I'm always on the PSU anyway. Also when you get a card not supported you don't need to mess with the bios at all. You will need to mod the driver but I've always found the laptopvideo2go site worked for me when I had an unapproved combo .

The 680m is rapidly showing that it is the most 'solid' card out of NV for a long time. If I were to use a Clevo vbios I could push it quite a bit more - based on the low temps I see when maximum OC under the dell vbios is running (+135mhz). Fact is though games run great and even 3D is playable at higher settings so I'll hold off on that until I need it .

Depending on the funds allocated you might look at spending a little more to make your life way easier . Although my 675m heatsink was perfectly acceptable to be used for the 680m I purchased an R4 680m heatsink from Dell. I could now take my time assembling it and swap very quickly should I need to. It arrives with all the pads in place and phase-changing paste so you simply confirm everything is in the right place and screw it together . I paid around £40.00 but P&P was a large chunk of that!

This might prove useful, out-of-the-box:


Very accurate about testing pluralism and interesting for me seeing how the UK is dealing with it compared to the US. It was the Sikh community back in the 1970's that got the first exemption from law because of a religious belief. Bus drivers could not be required to wear a cap and motorcyclist got to ride without a crash helmet - but a turban of course. Not a biggie or unreasonable, doesn't affect me so what is the problem in allowing it? But now I am expected to do business with people wearing a full face mask or risk jail. My society is based upon everyone being identifiable up to this point and the garb has already been used to escape police. What is the 'right' thing?

It's how far a government can go before the indigenous population start rising up? I'm now seeing people doing jail time for 'assault with bacon'! We have a far left minority party taking seats now. Vacuming up the disaffected voters and protest votes.

Interesting times as they say but getting way OT - at least the post has technical information haha

 

Ok, the card came in, and I installed it.... not the prettiest work I've done, but I think it's all ok. System now works with the standard VGA driver, but not recognizing the new card, as expected. Nvidia does not seem to be able to auto-detect. When I downloaded the driver for the 680m it said it could not install. Where to go from here? I've seen posts about modding the driver or tweaking some files, but I'm not sure where to go to do that.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

 

Hi, you could try the modified inf file located at: LaptopVideo2Go: Drivers

You don't need the driver file, just the related inf so follow the link for the driver you want to use and look for the download INF link. You then overwrite the original located in c:\nvidia\....\...\display.driver. If you get the overwrite message from windows when you copy you've cracked it .

If you do download the driver as well from there it is not in the format NV supply and is simply a zipped up copy of all the files after expansion, you manually run it after expansion and it is unmodified.

Hope this is clear, if not ask away

 

So, are these a kind of 'universal' driver? I don't see an easy way to filter by my video card, just the OS. I'm trying the Driver Agent tool the offer but so far the website is not returning any driver recommendations. Normally I'd be wary about a site like this, but it seems that people like you trust it.

Also, off topic, but noticed something strange in my DevMan after reassembling. All my Bluetooth items show a driver not installed problem. They go away when I disable wireless, but I need wireless. Also, the network adapter drivers keep showing up in expanded mode, though they are all reporting that they work fine. Could I have accidentally tripped a wire or connector somewhere? Or could this possible be related to the video card?

Changes: Well, paint me a right-wing-nut-job but I think the West, especially in Europe is going to get a wake up call that ideological pluralism only works within certain limits. I think W. Europe has done a great job destroying any confidence in the underlying value systems it once had (elements of which perhaps needed to go), in order to embrace what seemed like a more convenient relativism, but I think it will prove a bad mix with particular new ideologies. It seems the ideological bridge to the past was convincingly burnt by the march of progressiveness and sadly the recourse that many who dissent seem to be choosing now is just racism. It's a little more understandable in Europe which historically had long periods of ethnic homogeneity (though don't look too closely at history, or you might find it was not as homogenous as we think, i.e. many miss the Roman vs Celtic considerations texts like the Middle English Arthurian literature). But I find race (which is artificial) to be a silly basis for any attempt at unity in a 'free' society, and it saddens me to see what seems as a rise of racism in Europe when what really needs to rise is some honest philosophical thought about value systems. If we can't articulate a defensible claim to a particular value system, then we can't criticize the ones we consider to be dangerous. Personally, I really enjoy learning about and interacting with those from other cultures, including those very different from my own. I find there are good qualities we can learn from all sorts of people. And how dare I criticize the creative choices of God if he wanted to make people look different from one another? But functionally, at the societal level, I think pluralism without understood limits based on knowledge of one's own ideology is a poison. I think it's easier for us Yanks to understand the value of ideology over simply race and tradition because of our unique origins. I imagine it's a bit tougher for those from the 'old countries'. But it's something I think people should start doing. Dominance by a distasteful and cruel ideology vs resorting to a just as cruel knee-jerk racism can't be the only choices. But they seem to be the only choices really being entertained by those that don't still have their head in the sand. But forgive me, like I said I lean to the right (which does not have racial connotations in my culture...at least it shouldn't have) and I'm a bit of a nut job in that I am a philosophy professor lately- So I fully appreciate the epistemological challenges inherent in my comments about identifying our own value systems.

 

Very thought provoking, we are certainly living in 'interesting times'. I very much agree but values need to be discussed if they are to be aligned for peaceful co-existence. When government imposes those values without discussion a knee-jerk is hardly surprising. TV is currently running a LOT of warnings from history type stuff to show where this could go when a population goes crazy, but it's the guys making the laws that produce this environment that need to address it.

Anyhoo, I don't know why NV have you put in all your details for a driver search since they are unified drivers and run on all supported GPUs. There are two types: Desktop driver and laptop (verde) driver. The verde driver is set up so that it will only install on an approved machine. Since laptops often have proprietary hardware the OEM has to inform NV of the model and GPU's supported. NV put this information in their public drivers with a disclaimer that the driver published by the OEM is recommended. There are beta versions as well for those that cannot wait for the latest fix.

You now have an unofficial combination so that info needs to go into one of the install files. It is driver specific so you need a new one for every driver released .

What you need to do is try to install the NV one and when it fails you have all the files on your c:nvidia folder. Go to LV2go and select the same version number as you tried to install. Get INF and overwrite original. Run installer and it should now work. Oh and Win8 on that site is all versions from Vista - wish they wouldn't assume this is common knowledge.

Good luck

 

Hmm... apparently the driver I installed before does not have a match on the laptopvideo2go site, so I downloaded and attempted to install the most recent match (version 340.43 a beta version). That install also failed. I then downloaded the inf file, but there is not an existing file by the same name to replace anywhere on my system. I can throw it into that folder you specified, but am I not 'cracking' it then? Should I try an earlier non-beta version?

I hear you. I think most people feel that their governments are not doing a good job representing 'the people' just about anywhere you go lately. As the Russians say, Every people get the government they deserve. I guess this is one reason why I am a small government type. They shouldn't be so big as to have that much weight to throw around, because it's usually in the service of various factions rather than 'the people'.

 

Also, I note I have quite a few drivers installed now. Is it smart to delete all others in the nvidia folder that are not desired?

 

Sounds like a problem I have seen a few times with the filename and location.

First, the version you downloaded was the laptop one? The desktop version does not use the same config files.

Next, yes you will see a bunch of folders for each version. Delete all but the one you want to try, just to avoid confusion.

Now, did you navigate to the display.driver folder note the period? It is under the version folder.

When you save the file (if it does not download) make sure it is saved 'as is' and not 'as text' as this adds a hidden .txt to the extension and you will not get an 'overwrite?' question.

What I am seeing is laws being changed to suit minority or otherwise protected groups. Fine and dandy when we junk the crash helmet law for anyone that wants to wear a turban instead, but now we have to allow statements in court from totally disguised persons... yes this plays into the hands of racist groups.

 

It sure does play into their hands. But we must always be vigilant to not resist one form of tyranny with another form. I've gotten kicked from so-called conservative groups on facebook that were talking about the KKK being the solution to Europe's ills. They claim to be defending "Christian" culture yet I think they have no idea what really is "Christian". Rather than actually understand the ideology, they seem to just embrace it for knee-jerk traditionalist reasons, and are ready to suggest violence for those that threaten to change manners, customs, and general completion. They fail to see that by having such a hateful, unthinking focus, they are actually more alike in ideology those they claim to be opposing. Minorities need to be protected within reason when it comes to fundamental rights. The challenge we have now is that because we have not identified the boundaries of our own ideology, and have embraced relativistic notions, then 'within reason' and 'fundamental rights' can be defined however a group wants...and usually the loudest of those succeed. So, I see it mainly as an ideological failure... because the West doesn't really have one anymore, beyond mere platitudes. Of course, I may not be accurately reading things, since I live an ocean away and am only noticing the very vocal idiots. I'm just hopeful that there can be a growing number of Europeans who don't think that 'ideology' is a dirty word. Everyone has one. Even those who claim not to.

So, Are we able to identify what is 'good', 'right', 'true'? If we cant' articulate that beyond either "something different' or 'they way it used to be' then that's the crux of our problem I think. No we can't deductively prove our, or any worldview. That does not mean that truth does not exist at all. But if we at least stake our claim (with a healthy dose of intellectual humility) we can then try to see where there is enough over-lap with those who might have a different worldview so that we can truly live in tolerance. Tolerance does not mean surrendering truth claims or believing that there is no truth. It is being willing to disagree as respectfully as possible.

Back to the video issues:

As far as I know it was the laptop version... 680m designates that, does it not? M for mobile? Seems like the issue was like you suggested... the REAL extension was hidden. Now it replaced the file properly. The setup is working good so far. Windows says it can't verify the publisher, but I told it to go ahead. Now it's saying an audio driver stopped working... hmmm. I'm sure the cat will be skinned eventually.

Now, I'll have to track down where to get those bluetooth drivers....maybe the audio one too now.

Thanks again for your help. How'd you get so good with Laptop related repairs? They seem to be a bit trickier than Desktops, which I generally handle just fine.

 

Ok, all seems good on the video front now. But I'd like to make sure I did a good job seating it with the thermal paste.

Speedfan is reporting 54C with just a browser open, and spiked to 67 while launching the browser.

Core 0 is at 47, Core 1 at 57, 2 at 54, and 3 at 51... thereabouts. It's showing hot (flame icon) next to cores 1-3 and the GPU. the HD1 and Core 0 have a green check.

Are those temps ok? Is speedfan just being picky? I think I recall much greater temps on the old car, but my wetware memory stinks.

I brought up a total war game (the one that killed the old card) and temps were ranged from 57 to 79 (the peak).. most of the time it seemed around 60-75.

How are those temps looking? Have I done a bad job connecting the heatsink? Or is that within an acceptable range?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Haha, a total PC geek that landed a job in IT 20 years ago - a very different world! Built all sorts of rigs over the years including multi-block water cooled, multi-GPU, anything that came along I wanted it.

My only experience with laptops was specifying and supporting around 400 laptops so interoperability was my chief concern - thanks dell, purchasing the same kit across north and south America through a single contact was priceless! The day they replaced my HD on a machine purchased in Canada when I arrived in Brazil with a DOA laptop, they got me sold. The engineer even stayed with me (think he was educating himself as well) while I got a vanilla install hooked up over a VPN to pull my image down. Upshot, I got to the meeting with a working machine, and all was well. Disaster averted - I was presenting and the world was not as well connected back in the early 2000's

A major health problem has left me looking for things to do and I'm nowhere as sharp as I was before the stroke, but I can still remember the logic

I bought my R3 to satisfy my gaming urge when my rig got trashed in shipping and I no longer have that sort of disposable income .

Laptops for me were a tool that did a specific task and upgrading or swapping parts was never a consideration. Indeed I used to be an AW detractor back in the day.

The OEM's are restricted in what they can let you do officially with a laptop. Anything that can affect heat or thermal properties and the machine's certification goes out the window. That's why dell make it hard for you to get parts for different models. Call them up with your R3 tag and ask for an R4 680m heatsink. The guy has to think about it as he won't see the option. Usually they will sell you the part but it is not straightforward.

I discovered the hardware difficulties the hard way by almost completely wrecking this machine at one point - doing all the stuff I used to do on a desktop.

The audio thing is a known problem so a search should come up with it. Look for posts from J95, he knows better than me. All I know is it involves disabling the sound in the bios, and an install sequence before turning it back on.

The bluetooth will be onboard the wireless card so that is all you should need unless there is some other problem.

Good luck

 

Temps sound acceptable, similar to my precious 680m. Make sure you set the power preference in nvidia control panel to adaptive to keep the card cool if possible. Your CPU will probably run hotter than the GPU.

Try HWinfo64 if you worried about Speedfan giving the wrong impression. Those temps seem fine to me though.

 

For me as long as I don't see long periods of CPU around 80c I never worry. The CPU fan lets you know it's time for a clean out when you hear it kick in opening a window or some other windows operation.

As for the GPU I would say at the limit of acceptable, but I'd be looking for mid to high 60's C. I just don't like seeing over 70c when at 78c (or thereabouts) the overheat throttle will kick in and slow the machine down. What is your ambient temp? Having a heatwave here and all my temps are up 4C .

Speedfan is not something I have used so I can't talk to the accuracy of their evaluation of 'hot'. The CPU is fine so it's just the GPU that is a little on the hot side.

 

Thanks DDDenniZZZ for the tip. that seems like a very nice utility to have around.

And Thanks again MickyD1234. Yea, I think I recall my GPU being in the 80s on the old card...which is probably why it eventually died. I have a much more reliable system now thanks to you.

Sorry to hear about your health challenge. I've got one that only gets worse with time myself. We don't get to keep these bodies after all. Best we can hope to do is serve others as best we can, while we can. Thanks again for your excellent assistance and I wish you the best.