Alienware M17x-R4: What is letting my system down?

So I wish to improve my system to run most games on very high or ultra graphics but I do not know what is letting my laptop down.
I believe it to be my CPU or my GPU.


Alienware M17x-R4;

OS; Windows 7 Ultimate x64
CPU: i7-3630QM @ 2.40GHz
GPU: Nvidia GTX 660M
RAM: 16GB RAM DDR3
SSD: Samsung SSD PM830 mSATA 64GB
HDD: 2 x 750GB Western Digital Scorpio Black |
WI FI: Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 2230



If it is my GPU I am thinking about upgrading to a 780M (what is the difference between a CLEVO and DELL card?)

If it is my CPU what is a better CPU to get and will DELL be able to install it for warranty purposes.




Thanks for your time, Anton

 

Without a shadow of a doubt, Your Gpu is holding back.

There is no physical differance between cards, only Vbios's, either works most of the time
You can install parts yourself without voiding warrenty, Infact Alienware/dell encourages modding and tinkering with the Alienware line up.

Personally i'm not a fan of your wifi card, But that's just me.

Your gpu is the most pressing of concerns.

 

Cheers thats what I was thinking RE the GPU


This guy does a video on installing a new 780M in the alienware m17 series

"NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M VGA upgrade in Alienware m17x"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdxBnGMXGQ

But regarding the software BIOS I am unsure of, so ill try and contact them and ask for info.



Sidenote when cleaning Heat Sinks is it isoproponal to clean the surface?


Cheers Anton

 

when i upgrade to the 780m will my performance be bottle necked by my cpu at all.

And would there be any issuse arrise from my current configuration?

 

Most modern games never end up utilizing the full CPU bandwidth. I do not expect to see you at any bottleneck in the near future.

 

sorry i probably should have also added, whilst playing my games I wish to record a local copy of the game at 10,000kb/s or higher for better HD, whenever I try and do It before I lose FPS is that the CPU or GPU?


Cheers Anton

 

Thats Part CPU/Memory and a lot to do with your Disk.

 

Just a quick jump in here man. If you go for a 680m then it will be pretty much plug-n-play. No bios messimg or modified drivers needed.

IMO it's not worth the extra power (yet) from an unsupported GPU when you're coming from a 660m

 

For me the performance is definalty worth the upgrade, I do undersatnad that there will be numerous things to work around RE: insatalling the card, however I have been reading though the forums and bookmarking lal the other 780m ones that relate to me.


But from your opion why wouldnt it be worth the upgrade considering i want to play Arma 3, starcitizen and other High end games in glorious max settings?


Cheers Anton

 

I would say the GPU upgrade will make the biggest difference for games. Then SSD for daily computing. 680m or 780m might be best upgrades for you, or even a 7970m. dont worry about vBIOS, they can be flashed either way (alienware has a higher standard turbo speed for the 680m for example, which can be fixed with overclocking anyways).

Max settings most likely bottlenecked by GPU (i have the 3630qm and that's not the bottleneck for me, try throttlestop for the extra bit of power).

 

I have no expereince with overclocking, I am under the impression though that most newer GPU's come with software for this am i correct?

 

Try MSI afterburner or nvidia inspector, they will let you overclock by 135mhz (you need the modded vbios to go higher). Try that for a bit, keep an eye on your temps though.

MSI afterburner can overlay the temperature and gpu load over gameplay in the corner too.

 

Really don't think so. The 680 is easily being overclocked to match the 780 from what I read. Of course your call and only you know how much work you are prepared to put in on the install and then continuing to get or modify drivers every time a new one comes out?

From my research the 680m runs everything maxed very well. I'm already mostly running max settings on mine so even a 680m clocked to 780 performance is not worth it - yet. Until that killer game comes along (and nothing yet has me disappointed) I'll wait, but maybe a new post for 680m owners as to gaming performance?

 

Im pretty much fine with most of what i have seen but my only two concerns at the moment are;


My heatsink is a 75w but the 680m/780m are both 100w, wouldnt i need a 100w heat sink for the GPU. (numerous posts have said all M17xR4 are fine for all nvidia cards, and others have said a new 100w is needed, which is it?)

Drivers: I was under the impression that the initial modded driver was all that was needed for the GPU and then the card could just use the official patches as they roll out. (I will message some of the other people that upgraded to the 780m and see what they do)

 

Like you I have seen people using the older heatsinks without issue. At stock clocks my guess would be you're fine but to OC get the right one - especially the x-bracket as the cores are different thickness's.

Dell sell the heatsink complete with pads and paste in-place ready to bolt together for around $25.00 (That's what I was quoted) so not a biggie to get one .

Since the card ID is not on the driver/machine combo in a 'stock' driver you will always need to get one. Again not too much of a problem since laptopvideo2go ( LaptopVideo2Go: Drivers) publish them .

 

Heatsinks are the same, if you compare the images they should look the same with the triple pipe setup. Only change is xbracket but your going to nvidia to nvidia so a few thermal pads is whats required at most. You can get a cheap heatsink kit from dell if your super worried (£30) but i am pretty sure it would be the same. I have seen a few people in the past just change card/xbracket and been fine with their original heatsinks.

Drivers wise you will always have to use the modded drivers for the 780m as its not an official option for the R4 ( MickyD1234 will know more about this) its something to do with how the installer verifies the card is compatible with the system and whether to install or not. usually the modded drivers are out pretty soon after the official updates anyways.

Let us know which you do go for, I cna post pictures of a stock 680m setup if you need an idea, but I'm pretty sure my heatsink would look the same as yours. (I have 680m factory setup, not even repasted it at all, since myemy temps are around high 60-low 70's during gaming).

 

Thats fine then i have been asking around on ebay for some deals regarding a 780m, xbracket, thermal paste and thermal strips. Just trying to see what i can get the best price for.

 

That would be great, ill open up my case tomorow and compare i have evrything stock on mine so hopefully the same.

Cheers

 

I'd go with the 680M as already suggested in this thread, no driver workarounds required, Optimus will continue to work if you have it (ie not the 3D screen model), and it will be quite a bit less money than the 780M. Also you can overclock it after flashing a modified VBIOS to more than +135Mhz, so that you can easily reach & exceed stock 780M performance. Your call though, if you want the highest possible performance regardless of price then the 780M.

 

How long woud a 680m probaby last me regarding max graphics, since I wont be another machine for quite a while (3-5 years) would it be worth it to go with the 680m or go all out for the 780m now.


Is it possible that they may make the 780m a supported card for my machines in the future?



I was pretty confident in my decision of the 780m, but I am wavering in how long the card will last until another upgrade is needed?

 

Unfortunately dell never go back to older models to update them.

The 780m is not enough of a jump in performance to say that it is going to outlast a 680 in games a couple of years out. Of course it's a dice roll as to when something comes along that will need much more power but my 675m is the same card as the 580m which was top-of-the-line for the R3. Still playing new games with very little compromise a couple of years on

Save yourself all the aggravation of an unsupported card I say, it's not that much better (780M)...

 

680m 2gb and 4gb?


Whats the difference if any and what would be the best for FULL HD GAMING?

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ALIENWARE-M1...120?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item1e7f41ee28


is this goood or is the 2gb better?

 

Dell Alienware M18X M17X Nvidia Geforce GTX680M Laptop Video Card CPCXD 680M 2GB | eBay

or this

 

The 2gb will be a dell one as only dell used 2gb. Means that ity is unlikely you would need to flash a dell vbios, although from what I read a clevo vbios is better for OC'ing.

The extra memory is only useful if you are running multiple monitors at very high resolution, otherwise it's no difference.

Both look just fine but you will need the x-bracket for the 680m to make sure you have the correct heatsink to core clearance. The 4gb one with all the stuff you need like pads, paste. x-bracket would be my choice but at $100.00 more you might think differently. It looks like the 4gb one will have a dell vbios (done by the seller) as they are targeting the AW.

 

If you're really concerned about future proofing you could wait until Maxwell comes out in 20nm at the end of this year. That's a long time to wait though, and there's no guarantee that the Maxwell cards will work in your laptop.

I'd still say go with the 680M, if you flash a modified VBIOS to it & overclock beyond +135Mhz, then you'll have performance that is better than the new gen consoles, so that should be good for future proofing.

 

Im going to go with the 680m


On a weird note Dell are ridicoulous asked about the price of a new 680m card and was quouted.... $1600


Now I know that dell raises the prices for brand name, hence why i saved 20% off my system when i made an order knowing this fact, but wow.

 

I think that's the best choice for you.

Yeah, I was quoted over £1000 but that included on-site installation (something like £150 of the total). I asked again recently and it had dropped to around £550. The only advantage with getting it from dell is it becomes part of the warranty so you don't have to put the original back in to get help.

 

O so i will try and get that 4gb 680m card, just messaged the guy and asked if he can give me a deal.


Now all i have to worry about is;

- getting a proper 240w ac adaptor (i have a 180w atm)
- How do I overclock the 680m
- Hopefuly my 75w heatsink will be fine (Everyone says it will be but i have my doubts/will try and upload photo of my heatsink soon)

 

You will need the PSU, The card may not run at full speed. I've not seen many with that lower power supply.

You can use msiafterburner or nvidiaInspector (my choice as I have more control over different clock states) to go up to +135, but you would need to flash a vbios to go higher. Only if the vbios on it is a dell one though.

As for the heatsink just make sure you monitor the temps. I use afterburner for this as it has an on-screen-display while gaming . Also track down a pad placement pic, they are on NBR as well as some of the seller sites. If you get the one that included the pads it will have a layout with it, far better with new pads on a heatsink that was intended for a different model. Although reusing them is common as well.

Edit: If there is black tape around the core area on the heatsink you need to remove this, as well as use the correct x-bracket.

 

See what stock performance is like first too , then overclock... I don't overclock mine tbh.

 

So in this photo i have the 3 pipe heatsink that i think someone said is the one i need for the GPU


Side note the heatsink for the CPU has some residue on it and looks slighly meleted is this a problem?








And then regarding my AC adaptor which model and how many watts is it, i beleive its 180w and i am pretty sure i need 240w




My card and uograde kit arrives in the next two days, so if anyone has anytips on installing and storing my old GPU that would be appreciated.




Cheers Anton

 

Side note regarding the ac adaptor

My model is the

Details about DELL WW4XY 180w AC ADAPTER DA180PM111 Power Supply



Can someone find me the model number for a 240w or whatever would be better for my system for a Dell Alienware M17x R4 system

 

Pease get back to me on the CPU im actually fairy worried now about the what looks to be burned section and the goo on the spreader?

 

@ Anton, sorry for not getting back sooner.

The CPU doesn't look too bad to me but a clean up and repaste is an eaqsy enough job.

This is my R4 240W adaptor:

 

Looks like someone spilt something on the bottom of the laptop & it seeped through the panel onto your CPU heatsink. Looks like some kind of a food related accident! ;-) You could clean it up like MickyD suggests.

For installing the GPU, didn't we go over that before, earlier in this thread. You can store you old GPU in the packaging of the new GPU.

EDIT: No, we didn't actually go over the entire installation process, but some of it was described. In addition to what's already been mentioned I recommend the following. Buy some extra 1mm thermal padding, so that you can build up certain areas of the heatsink, reuse the existing thermal pads where possible, but they will need to be moved around to fit the chips properly. Spend some time & care to make sure you pad up the areas of the heatsink to the correct depth so that all necessary chips are covered, but while still allowing the heatsink to sit flat against the GPU core - this part is the hardest, most time consuming, and critical part. (Make sure you're using the correct X-bracket). You need thermal paste for the GPU core. Clean off the heatsink & GPU core properly with isopropyl alcohol - Arctic do a cleaning kit - before pasting. Remove any black tape from the heatsink GPU die contact area before doing any of this (that's if yours has it). Familiarise yourself with the physical removal & installation process using the Dell Service Manual, which you can download if you don't have it. Make sure you've mapped out the whole process before you even start so you know what you're doing.

 

So i got my kit today


The only thing is where on the card does the xbracket need to be put?


On the card it looks like the xbracket is allready mounted, but do i need a different one for the top to fit between the GPU and heatsink?




Cheers Anton

 

Remember to apply the thermal paste on the GPU die.

 

The x-bracket goes under the card and although they may look the same you want to use the one for the card. It's only on stickies....

 

I seriously didn't get any of that(You probably explained it perfectly but i am slightley retarded in this matter)?


This is the kit I bought;

Alienware M17X M18X VGA Upgrade KIT Nvidia GTX 680M 4GB DDR5 MXM 3 0B | eBay


It says it comes with the Xbracket, and from the photo on the page it looks like the xbracket has allready been put under it in place.




But I am not 100%

 

It's the top left item in the picture and sticks to the underside of the card.

Basically it's the xbracket and the heatsink that 'sandwich' the card and apply the correct pressure. You should also have instructions as to where the pads should be placed.

Edit: It does look like they used one with the bracket applied in the picture??

 

Don't want to freak you out Assassin, but shouldn't the X-bracket have a heat spreader attached to it for the bank of VRAM to the left of the GPU core (the backside of the card), or is the M17xR3 different in that respect from the M17xR4? Does anyone here reading this know? My X-bracket has the heat spreader to the left, so it can cool the VRAM on the backside - the top bank of VRAM on the backside of the card is cooled by a large pad on the motherboard on mine, does the R4 have one of those for the band of VRAM to the left of the X-bracket then (instead of the X-bracket heat spreader that I have)?

 

Yes, I noticed that but the pic could be a 2gb bracket? I doubt it will make much difference as the ram is underused and the thin piece of tin seems hardly worth the effort (IMO).

As long as Assasin monitors temps from the start it's not going to be a show stopper

 

Yes, I see your point, I can't imagine them including the incorrect X-bracket anyway, so probably nothing to worry about. Although, if you look at the ebay pic you can see that the X-bracket attached to the card isn't covering that bank of VRAM. Why would they put a 2GB X-bracket with a 4GB card - I'm just making assumptions here.

EDIT: ebay searches for 2GB versions of the card show the same VRAM chip layout (so lower density chips then), so it can't be a 2GB X-bracket per say, because there's no layout difference between the 2GB & 4GB cards from that perspective. Maybe it's just not important to cool that bank of VRAM then, or more likely that bank of VRAM is designed to be pressed up against a thermal pad that is contact with the motherboard/chassis structure.

 

All I can think is that it is a genuine Dell bracket and dell only sell the 2gb version?

 

2GB & 4GB VRAM layout looks identical on ebay. I think they just use different density chips.

Here's a 2GB:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dell-Ali...PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2a2e4ff992&_uhb=1

Does your 675M in the R4 not have that little heat spreader on the X-bracket, because your VRAM layout looks very similar to the 680M layout to me when looking on ebay? Or does it have another heat pad there that just presses up against the motherboard/chassis?

(Haha, I'm sure if J95 is reading these posts he's probably wondering what conclusion we'll come to, I'm sure he knows, he's been heavily involved with the 680M thread in the R3's and I see he has a 780M in the R4 himself, which has a similar VRAM chip layout to the 680M anyway!)

 

It's a clevo card/x-bracket, to cover the VRAM chips cut 3 x 1.0mm heat pads and place it under the card.

 

There's no vram on the underside of my card. From what I saw it does just press against the chassis but since I've never had my hands on one I'm guessing.

re J95. That's who I refer up to

 

Yep, those 3 pads that J95 talked about should cover those then. Good stuff! Assassin, you still with us, sorry for possibly causing some confusion and doubt in your mind about all this for a while! At least you know now how to cover those 3 VRAM chips on the backside of the card - as J95 described.

 

Cheers guys got pretty freaked out for a sec then