Black screens of death on Alienware M17xR3 *Help*

Hi,

I've got the following problem:

I have an early 2011 Alienware M17xR3 with a Nvidia Geforce GTX580M. I tend to get black screens of death before windows starts and when I go through forums like this one here. Whilst playing UT3 or watching videos it crashed after a certain time. When I try to update the driver it gives in the middle of the installation process a black screen of death and I have to restart. Normally I have to restart it 4 times till I can access windows. I'm out of warranty. The Dell tech guy said I should install a new windows and see if the problem persists. So I installed on a new hardrive and the same probelsm turned up with some days of lag.
Because I'm out of warranty they sent me to a private contractor. They said that the R3 mainboard only accepts video cards up to the GTX580M because it hasn't enough power for anything higher up and they want 600 Euros total for it, 170 Euro for the technician alone and like 70 Euros for the cooler. They said that their policy doesn't allow the card either way going out without me buying the cooler as well.
I feel unhappy about that price and had a look at ebay for a couple of Nvidia 660s from China which are well under 300 Euros. Now if I buy one would it work and what would be the risk of the card not working?

 

It's good you posted here. Welcome to NBR.

Seems like the 580M did indeed fail. You can install up to a GTX 780M in your M17x R3. It will work. Don't listen to those people... They're reading a manual. They don't have any hands-on experience with the M17x R3. With that being said, I'd look for a GTX 680M or 780M on eBay. They're usually around $400 ( example #1). Performance over a 660M makes it well worth the extra cost.

 

Hi, thanks for the reply. I'm checking out a GTX 765M but the seller writes that it doesn't work with a R3. What do you think?

Alienware 17 18 M17XR4 Graphics Video Card NVIDIA GTX 765M 2GB GDDR5 MXM 3 0B | eBay

By the way, does anyone has experiences with the Chinese sellers?

 

i'd recommend 680m rather than 765m.

to answer your 2nd question, well all your parts prolly made in china or taiwan. joking aside, when you shop on ebay, check the sellers rep, easy.

oh one more thing, since you're going to gut your r3 and replace the gpu anyway, why not try to gut it now, take off the card, clean it up, re-paste, clean the fan and exhaust fins. who knows maybe it'll works, i don't see any downside of doing that.
does r3 equipped with intel igpu?

 

I'm not sure about the onboard Intel GPU, when I plucked the Nvidia last weekend from the Alienware, it just beeped and showed nothing at all. I was thinking about reapplying some artic silver, it's still on the way. But a GTX680 is nothing more than an upgraded GTX660 plus the 1344 CUDA cores, right?

 

Hi, a bit late to the party (AC Unity ).

The R3/580m came with the 3D 120hz screen as well as the standard 60hz panel. If you have the 120hz panel then the iGPU is disabled and this makes using a non-standard GPU easier. If you don't then you have to track down an unlocked BIOS to be able to disable the on-board. Optimus gets messed up when the GPU is not in the machine's internal table.

The 580m and 680m are 100W cards so you have a useable heatsink already. The 660m is a 75w card and as such is far less powerful than the 680m. The 780m is also an option but on the R3 I have seen a lot of people having problems getting the on-board sound to work (this may be old info since the last two 780m/R3 owners I saw had no problem at all )..

Dell and their contractors will want to use a new heatsink as this is what they specify for the upgrade. I got one anyway since it was cheap enough (£40.00 with shipping) and it comes with all the pads and paste in-place. Simple job to screw it together. The R4 had a 680m so you ask for an R4/680m heatsink.

If you do have the 3D model 3D will no longer work but 120hz, the prime 'bit', still works fine.

Oh yeah, I've seen two people try the 765m and both gave up after trying everything people here could think of.

Good Luck

Edit: Just noticed you tried without the NV and it beeped. That indicates to me that it IS a 120hz model .

 

Hi,

yes, I've got the 120 Hz and 3D, but I never cared about the 3D much. I have the A12 Bios, I flashed it back when available. On ebay there are "new" and "used" cards, I guess new ones are better due to a 0er life cycle? If the GTX660M uses only 75 Watts than the 580/680 with 100 Watts, it hopefully doesn't get too hot and holds up longer right? If compared, how does the GTX660 compares in gaming with a GTX580?
Darn, for import I've probably to pay another 75 bucks...

 

The 660M is not a wise choice. The 680M will work and would be your best option. It will perform like two 580M's.

 

Nice thing about the 680m, it runs very cool. At stock I doubt you will even see more than 68c .

I went for a used private sale from an M18 user on ebay. Exchanged a few emails to suss out if he was genuine. When I asked about pads and paste (I already knew the answers) he threw in a tube of Artic Silver AND a new x-bracket. You should try to get one with the card if new. You want the correct pressure and the height of the posts are probably different, but only thou's in it so reusing is OK as well. I paid £260.00 from a user in the UK and it's been great. A huge leap from the 580m (I had the R3).

I would guess the 660m is slightly less performance, as the equivalent 6xx card for the 580m is the 675m - avoid. It's a rebadge of the 580m and is just as unreliable!

Once a custom vbios is installed in a 680m it is VERY overclockable as well .

2gb versions are Dell and 4gb Clevo. Both work from what I have read but the clevo vbios does not restrict the card to a max of +135mhz. The dell vbios can be fixed :thumbsup:.

Good luck.

 

If I put in a GTX680M, will I have to "jailbreak" the drivers and Bios everytime there is a new driver from Nvidia?

 

Unfortunately in the R3, yes for the driver .

TBH later drivers are really not a necessity on an older card. It's not like they unlock hidden power, and GFE can keep the game profiles updated. No bios changes needed only the modified .inf.

As well as laptopvideo2go user j95 posts the modified inf he does himself.

 

Hey, great that you all are trying to help me out! :thumbsup:

So I'm thinking to get the 680 or the 780, l guess the latter is more of a hassle to get it working?

 

Yes 780M is more troublesome...

 

Could be and they run hotter than the 680m, so I'd say go 680m. Easy to get +20%~30% out of it if you want

 

Okay, I went for the GTX680M. I found the following procedure written by another ebay seller:


Installing your card in a M17x R2/R3

1. Flash bios with (R2) A10 or (R3) A12 , unlocked Bios

2. a) Disable onboard HD audio /R3 Disable onboard grahpic card

b) Disable IDT GPU in advanced settings

//R3 change display model from SG to PDG

3. Install Card

4. Install this driver with the .ini mod (easy):

v326.29 Windows 8 64bit | NVIDIA Mobile OEM - GeForce r326 series - LaptopVideo2Go Forums


Is that okay or is something missing?

 

No need for most of that on a 120hz 3D model. Skip to step 3 .

 

Before I put the card in, should I remove the old drivers? About the drivers, would these work?

GeForce r343 series - LaptopVideo2Go Forums (Win XP, 64?)

or

LaptopVideo2Go: NVIDIA & Laptop News

So, as I understood it, the Bios A12 is already unlocked and I don't need to disable the HD audio?
Does the old GTX 580M Heatsink plus X-bracket fit the GTX 680M? Should I replace the old heat pads with for example some Akasa heat adhesive tapes?
I just noticed that on the backside of the M17 there are these vent outlets, for the CPU its 8 and for the GPU its 7, with one being blocked. Is that mere cosmetics?
Is there something like the old I8FanGui for Alienwares? I'm thinking about increasing the fan speeds to reduce heat already from 60 C onwards, I don't mind about the noise.
These Alien guys should really put in water coolers...
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to sort things out.

 

Driver and inf from: LaptopVideo2Go: Drivers Win 8=win7 as well.

Initially I just left the driver alone. It started up in low res and I just changed it in display properties . All worked fine.

The bios is not unlocked but you don't need it with a 120hz display. The igpu is wired out of the system.

The audio disable is only needed for the 780m afaik.

580m heatsink and bracket fit.

Reuse the pads, they will be fine. http://downloads.eurocom.com/support/drivers/zip/Alienware/6xxm/680M thermal pad placement.jpg

Dunno about the vents but you should find the 680m runs just fine, no more than around 65c under load at stock. The stock profile puts the fans in a higher setting at 60c on mine.

Phew, think that covers it .

 

Cheers mate!

I still have some Akasa thermal pads left over, thickness is 0.3mm and size is 80x80mm, looks like this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/akasa-AK-TT...&qid=1416155436&sr=8-5&keywords=Akasa+Thermal

or are these better?

Phobya XT 120 x 20 x 0.5mm Self Adhesive Thermal Pad: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Yeah I could reuse the old ones, but maybe the Akasa self adhesive stuff works well on the Rams? Green stuff in the pic is the thermal padding right? For the GPU itself I plan to use the Arctic Silver.
The ebay seller wrote me back that the 580 heatsink doesn't fit the 680, I guess he wants to make some extra cash?

 

The heat sink will fit.

You should purchase IC Diamond. It's superior to those pastes.

I'm glad you decided to get the 680M per our suggestion. That's a very good choice. :thumbsup:

 

Yeah, they often do not know and go by part numbers.

Seems like a little metric confusion here? I'm guessing you mean 3mm, the link one states 17 x 10 x 2 cm , nah surely 0.2cm or 2mm .

Anyway there are different thickness's used, I'm trying to find the pic I saw that labelled them but can't find it right now (user j95 posted originally I believe). This is my 680m heatsink as delivered from Dell. The different colours are different thicknesses. The two slim pads you see at one edge is actually a thermal putty but nobody has ever found this stuff for sale. The kits use 2x2mm to make 4mm here IIRC. Doubling up is not said to be a problem so you can mix and match to get the correct clearances. The main advantage of buying the complete HS, no trying to figure it all out.

View attachment 117799

The only way to be sure of clearences is a painfully long process. Clean all surfaces, put a small pea size of modelling clay or putty on each component, but not the core. Rub the HS surface with a little talc to stop adhesion then assemble. Open up and you will want pads to be between .5mm and 1mm thicker to allow for compression. It's not uber critical like the core and I have yet to see one overheat with a <del>noobie</del> home job, haha.

Good luck.

 

ah, I don't know man, strange stuff those metrics :

Akasa Thermal Adhesive Tape 80x80mm Square (AK-TT12-80) - Thermal Interface Materials

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=0.30mm+in+cm


Oh yeah, are those the thermal putty you mean?

Watercool Thermal Pads HEATKILLER® GPU-X³ GTX 570/580 (79358) - GPU Waterblocks

Well, what you describe sounds tough for a beginner like me. So my card comes without any heattapes on, can I just attach the old heatsink from the 580 onto the 680?
Alien reverse engineering

 

@J.Dre

Well you people know your tech
After checking out the comparisons between both cards, the 680 really is more bang for the buck, as you guys suggested.

 

Wow, that stuff is thin! I've never seen smaller than .5mm.

That link is not the putty but it looks like it contains a selection of pad thickness's. I think you need (huge guess from eyballing it) 1mm on the memory and 2mm on most of the rest, with 4 mm on those edge components. Good luck with finding the putty. It's a soft squidgy, malleable thermal compound that can be moulded for application. I have seen 2x2mm strips cut to size and stacked in place of the stuff. You will find it on the original so you can reuse that.

Still haven't found that post so I'll PM the author and update with the actual sizes he used .

The components are slightly different on the 680m so just reusing the 580m one as-is may cause overheating BUT, it won't destroy it. Usual symptom of poor paste/padding is temperature creep. Run a benchmark like Heaven 4 for an hour and make sure a stable temp is reached. Any more than 75c on stock and you need to try harder .

 

Do you think there would be any advantage in applying the Akasa thermal tape on the RAM's and then simply drop the old 580 heatsink ontop of it?

I'm currently looking at both models and the only main difference seems to be the GPU frame:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580M | techPowerUp GPU Database

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680M | techPowerUp GPU Database

You really want to PM the guy? Dude thnx :thumbsup:

 

That tape seems too thin to me. Once you open up the existing one the RAM thickness will be obvious. At least 1mm, maybe 2mm.

You can see the different components between them if you flick tabs. Look at the components in the upper part of the pics. Generally in the same place but a different size, that's why I said it will probably be OK but no guarantee.

With the different core size you may find that there is black tape on the heatsink demarking the contact area. Just remove that tape, it has no real purpose.

I have PM'd him so if I get an answer I'll post .

 

Here you go, quote from the reply. Thanks to j95:

'Hi man,
Basically 1mm or 0.5mm for fine adjustments, very similar gtx 780m (actually 680M) http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...tx-780m-installation-m17x-r4.html#post9458298'.

Looks like I got it a little wrong, I'm sure mine looked thicker but since I took the easy option of buying a new heatsink I just had to screw it together. I wanted to know if this was a valid route rather than all the variables of DIY .

 

I took the 580 apart to check something:

I don't seem to have a real heat shield under the card, is that normal?




Here's how the heatsink looks like:

 

The underside of my card simply had a largish pad on it that covered the ram that was not covered by the integral heatsink on the x-bracket (see my pic for the new x-bracket with a peel-off when you attach it. Yes, a heatshield would be common sense here but it appears that letting the underside heat to bleed to the MB is OK.

Apart from cleaning the core area it looks to me like it's good to just use it as is. Only the putty strip is different on mine and was two pieces and not one long one, but that gives you some spare to maybe use on the other edge component shown in the padding pics?

 

I just see it know, I don't seem to have a X-bracket. On your pic showing the heatsink, that metal square on the very right is called X-bracket right? In my laptop it was just screwed in like that.

 

Yup, that's the x-bracket, It will be stuck with a sticky to the underside of the card (if that's what you are asking?). Press on the posts and lever it off with something like a credit card...

 

I've put in the new card, it beeped so I took it out again, then refitting the card. Then it worked, but somehow the driver and inf doesn't work. What exacty do I need to do? Maybe deinstall the old drivers first? Unfortunately the original problem didn't solve, I still get the black screen with mouse at the beginning of Windows.

update:
Okay, I've got the GTX680 to be recognized. :thumbsup: Idle temperature is around 56C (MSI Afterburner). However the black screen at startup extended to like 3 Minutes. I ran Alien Autopsy but the motherboard seems fine.
Maybe it's the Samsung Evo 840 which I build in like half a year ago as a 2nd Hdd, any incompatabilites?

 

I looked around for a possible solution so maybe I have to update the hardware components. So I updated the RF290940.
So I took out the SSD, the black screen duration was shorter. Then suddenly in the Alien Autopsy the HDD target read and smart tests failed. In the startup check program (ePSA) I got the code that the HDD failed in the same tests. I put the SSD back in, the black screens still continue, but now also the HDD test are failures. Sometimes when I start up all writing gets a bit grainy/squishy which makes it hard to read numbers. I have to restart for that. However the Intel HDD program and the Crystal Disc report no Problem. The SSD is fine though, but if no HDD is attached, the SSD is not accepted as a bootable device. Is it a HDD problem after all? I'm kind of lost here...

 

I think I might have pulled it off. I’ve cloned the OS onto the SSD. After using display driver uninstaller and installing the driver 332.21 the strange grainy system start-ups didn’t occur anymore. Strangely there was no inf. file in the display driver so I just put it in. Next morning the system didn’t boot to the windows due to black screen, so I fiddled around with the bios and several restarts and windows repair. The AHCI mode is not accessible, even after trying out the Windows 50470 fix. So it has to stay in Raid mode. The Heaven graphics test went fine, several rounds in ultra-settings without going over 64C. Then I tried Hot CPU, after 15 minutes I stopped it and there were no errors. The Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool 64bit worked fine, despite the CPU temperature going over 75C, with no errors showing up similar to the Alien Autopsy. So now I’m down to the system kind of working, without windows “blacking out” during use. Still the black screens stay there on the SSD, but now they became very short, mostly like a second. I will try give an update soonish.

 

I think I've pulled it off, worked till now without any real problems. Thanks everybody.