Finally a fix for Nvidia Verde drivers BSoD's and freezes in M17x R1?

After reading Scyphoz's post on a different thread here , i have turned off PCIE Gen 2 in the BIOS , running latest verde drivers 266.58.

It's been a day and a half of three to four hours of use and i haven't got a single random freeze , Blue/Black screen of death or anything since. Usually it took about one hour for a random BSOD to develop.

I'm not exactly sure if disabling PCIE Gen 2 causes any performance losses , but my M17x R1 is running better than ever.

I have got a single black screen when changing from Dedicated to Integrated graphics mode, but it does not count , as most problems came randomly.

I know it's working for me and Scyphoz , what about you guys?

Also , does anybody know what exactly is this function in the BIOS? I have sent a message to Scyphoz but he didn't respond yet.

 

Let us know if you get a problem in the next days.. I am just tired of installing/uninstalling verde drivers.

 

Thanks for the post I've been playing around with drivers and reinstalls trying to get a stable system... did not think to start playing around with bios settings

 

Will try this 1st thing tmoz, keep us updated.

 

Today, all I've done was turn off hybrid and integrated (after reading Scyphoz's post also) and installed the drivers and they seem to be working fine. Of course it's only been 4 hours, but I've been playing wow for just as long and haven't had an issue yet. Where before I would've had at least 2 BSODs or Screen Freezes. *crosses fingers* If I do crash, I will be turning off PCI gen 2 as the next test.

Funny thing, I had read tyranus7's post on flashing the 280s that gave me the idea this morning to turn off hybrid since it had been mentioned that the 285s do not support hybrid. I realized I hadn't tried turning off hybrid and integrated when installing Verde Drivers. I also didn't recall anyone saying they'd tried that (tho I'm sure someone HAS to have mentioned it.) But it seems to be working for me so far.

 

I will. That is exactly what i thought before , but i was surprised with the result.

All thanks go to Scyphoz.

Scyphoz replied to me about PCIE Gen 2.

" PCIE Gen 2 is theoretically slowing down the card from PCI express 2.0 to PCI express 1.1, but I haven't noticed any major performance impacts at all.
Dell have already restricted the PCIE bus to only run at 8x even through its capable of 16x (GPU-Z will show PCIE 16x 2.0 @ 8x 2.0)... since turning this off seems to be keeping this stable i believe whats happening is the the Verde drivers have been optimised to use as much bandwidth on the PCIE bus as possible but due to dell's forced restriction at 8x it is somehow being overloaded and causing our systems to hard crash. Just a theory however..."

Still no freezes or anything until now. You guys post here if you run into any problems.

 

Of course we did turn off the Integrated and Hybrid SLi when testing these Verde drivers,the last version is more stable then the previous versions but not "the one",it's still freezing,not that often but still does when you're least expected.
Read the threads and you'll see BatBoy,me and a few others that we don't use our integrated and it's been "ages" they're turned off for us.

 

This is true,even with ONE card in the m17x it is still limited to 8x,That's why i think the Monility 5870 won't work eighter.
To see if there's any difference in performance just bench with the PCI Express Gen 2 on(if it won't crash on the verde driver) save the result and then do it with it OFF in BIOS,compare and see what you have.
If the system wasn't limited it would've stuttered,thing that managed to do with the older versions of the video drivers.

 

I haven't tried benchmarking before , and i won't now either. But i can surely say that my M17x R1 is performing better than ever

 

Benchmarking won't harm your system lol. That's a way to know if the laptop performs as before or worst/better.
Based on what you say that is performing better,running idle? I would do a comparison.

 

Yes , it's definitely performing better , probably due to the full use of the SLI profiles. (Better than P06 with PCIE Gen 2 On)

Throttling is pretty much still there though.

I'd appreciate if you would compare the performance of PCIE Gen 2 on and off , i have no experience at all with benchmarking

 

Well, i tried.
in 3dmark 06 :
GT1 - Return to Proxycon

in the beginning (the 2 big guys with minigun coming out..)
+ with PCIE X8 v2.0 Off : 92 => 102fps
+ with PCIE x8 v2.0 On : 98 => 112fps

average SM2.0 test :
fps drop from 60fps to 56fps
thats it.

 

For me it sounds like a small price to pay for keeping the latest drivers stable.

 

Interesting. Please let us know if you experience any crash or anything so we can give the latest drivers another shot. I'm still using P06 drivers.

 

So far , so good! You definitely should go for this , i believe you won't regret the effort to clean install the verde driver.

 

Alek, im running with gtx 285m PCIE Gen2 ON + P06 and its fast + stable.

p.s : i noticed something funny when benchmark 3dmark06 GTX285m and PCIE Gen2 off with 266.58 , the clipping sound when OCed my QX9300 (to ~3.8Ghz stable) reduced or maybe disappeared (in SM2.0 and 3.0 test). but the score isnt so high anyway

 

Right , still i prefer PCIE Gen 2 off rather than flashing the vBIOS

I'm waiting for more news from Scyphoz , he said he was testing a theory that there may be a conflict between the chipset driver and the display driver.

 

I have been testing this option with latest drivers and didn't get a single system freeze or BSOD while playing. Seems to work for my issues! (never got BSOD or freezes while surfing or idling, but couldn't get old games to be stable - got loads of system lockups).

 

I can confirm as well, been running for 2 days with no issues doing the same things that would cause lockups before.

I do have a problem booting up, but I don't think it's related. I start it up and the screen remains black with nothing happening. The only way to start it is on battery power where it switches to integrated graphics. This is probably related to the A06 bios because it started doing that right after I flashed it.

 

Hey everyone.
I'm glad to see that turning off PCIE Gen 2 is working for those trying it. Hopefully it keeps working! It was working for me for at least close to 2 weeks before I decided to test another theory I had.

As Alek123 mentioned in a previous post I have been testing a theory about a possible conflict with the chipset and video card drivers. Now I'll "try..." and keep this short:


I noticed after trying a few versions of chipset drivers that the device "NVIDIA nForce System Management" under System Devices in device manager has not been being updated, from what I believe are windows standard drivers, after installing a few different sets of chipset drivers. So I decided to turn PCIE Gen 2 back ON and try the chipset drivers from a few different laptop models which use the MCP79 board (Namely the Dell Studio XPS 1340 and the Asus K50IN).

After trying the chipset drivers from these laptops I noticed that the one and only set which actually updated the "NVIDIA nForce System Management" drivers were the XPS studio 1340 A02 drivers ( found here) which changed the version from 6.1.7600.16385 from Microsoft to 4.6.9.0 from Nvidia.

I have also rolled back the driver and let windows do its own update from a folder with all the chipset drivers and again windows chose to update to the 4.6.9.0 drivers... saying they were the latest drivers.

So, after installing the A02 chipset drivers from the Studio XPS 1340, I also installed the M17X inital chipset driver ( found here) and have been testing the stability with PCIE Gen 2 turned ON. So far after 1 1/2 days (7-8 hours for each day of use) I have not had a single crash.... its still early days so I'll keep you all posted on any changes. Otherwise feel free to try and post back what happens.

Also, I have not had any DPC issues using these earlier revisions of the chipset drivers.

 

I'm willing to test this also, I installed the 1340 chipset drivers. Do I need to install anything else on top of this?

 

That's a nice bit of detective work! I would never have thought to look for a single driver that was not being updated. My "NForce System Management Driver" is also the original Microsoft version. I will test your update as soon as I can appropriately backup my system! Great work!

 

This all looks very promising

 

All hail Scyphoz!

I will try installing the A00 Chipset driver too soon , and see how it goes.

 

Theoretically you shouldn't have to install any other drivers over the top once you have installed the 1340 chipset drivers as they are for the same chipsets. The only reason I installed the original M17x drivers after the 1340 ones is to test their performance with the updated nForce system management driver. I haven't tried installing the 15.57 M17x drivers with the 4.6.9.0 system management driver installed just yet.

 

Got a complete system freeze with the 1340 drivers + PCIE gen 2 enabled while playing Titan Quest... had to disable the option in the bios again.

 

Bugger! Thanks for trying. If you want to, try installing the M17x 2.05 chipset drivers directly over the 1340 ones. If that doesn't help then I guess I'm probably just having a lucky streak for now.

At least turning PCIE Gen 2 off is still appears to be working.

 

Well I am running those Nvidia drivers:



Since always (march 2010) and verde drivers never work for me.

 

That "NVIDIA nForce System Management Controller" driver updates with every chipset installation. It is the "NVIDIA nForce System Management" (without the controller on the end) listed directly above "NVIDIA nForce System Management Controller" that does not update unless you run the A02 1340 chipset drivers (I incorrectly stated A00 previously which does not exist. However, the link I posted previously will get you to the 1340 A02 drivers).

Also, ignore windows if it states that this device does not have any drivers installed, I assure you they are installed... Windows states that there are no drivers if the driver files do not included a file with a .sys extention.

 

OK I installed the M17x chipset drivers you pointed out. Will give feedback ASAP.

 

This is incredible, even the resume from sleep function works properly now. It's actually behaving like a normal laptop Too bad, all this pain because a stupid driver issue ...

 

If anyone is interested I have posted on rapidshare an updated version of the M17x 15.57 chipset drivers which will now actually install the updated NVIDIA nForce System Management driver that originally came with the 15.57 drivers (4.7.9.0). From what i can tell the main holdup was that the 4.7.9.0 driver is not actually WHQL signed even though the readme notes say it is. Upon installing these updated drivers the SMUBus installation will now ask if you wish to install the unsigned drivers (same as any other nVidia beta driver).

Anyway, if you want to try it you can get it from here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/448076488/M17x_15.57_MCP79_Chipset_Drivers___SMBUS_4.7.9.exe

Please let us know if you have any crashes or other unwanted issues with these drivers installed.

Also, installing the Ethernet drivers may cause Wifi to stop working... if that happens go into the advanced settings for the ethernet card in device manager and disable "device sleep on disconnect".

 

I had the same drivers (5.1.2 ones) installed, but there was no "NVIDIA nForce System Management" device just the one with the Controller at the end. I installed the 1340 ones and the no Controller device and the Controller device showed up. Running almost 2 days and all is fine at the moment.

 

Man, if I still had my R1 I would be all over this.

But for those that do, I really hope this is the fix everyone has needed for the past 2 years.

D.

 

Well, just an update.

For the past 4 days I've been running my M17x with the updated drivers "NVIDIA nForce System Management" driver from the 1340 and now the actual one from the 15.57 drivers via a modified install (link for download above) installed, plus PCIE Gen 2 turned ON and I have not had a crash or BSOD.

If anyone wants to try the 15.57 driver set which actually updates the NVIDIA nForce system management driver you can get the modified install i made here.

So far it looks promising to me.

 

I will give it a try, and let you know if I get a BSOD/freeze

 

works like a charm for me so far

 

I'm getting lock ups while playing videos in Window media player or Media player classic, if I use VLC it does not lockup. It happens both with Gen 2 off and on. The only thing in common is the Core AVC codecs that uses Cuda. I will try uninstalling it and try it out. This is my only problem with lock ups now the computer is running great.

 

I tested like for an hour, and got a shaking red/green/blue screen of death. So I guess for me the solution is not to update the "NVIDIA nForce System Management" driver

 

That sounds like it could be linked to the codec. Let us know how things go once you've uninstalled it.

Thanks for trying it tyranus.

I have seen mixed reports coming back from people who have tried updating the chipset drivers. Most people so far say the drivers seem to completely stabilise their computers, while a couple of people are still stuck getting crashes.

On the other hand I haven't seen anyone who has had the old random lockups / BSOD after having PCIE Gen 2 turned OFF in the bios. Try giving this a go and see if it helps solve lock ups on your M17x.

 

Just had a freeze with Gen2 ON and Scy's drivers ... too bad. I turned off Gen2 again, lets see now if it's necessary to reinstall chipset drivers as well.

 

Thanks Alex.

Well I've seen a few people have crashes now with the updated chipset drivers. I think its safe to say its just been pure luck that I haven't seen a crash myself.

 

The updated drivers are not resolving random crashes on a few peoples computers.

However, turning off PCIE Gen 2 in the bios is still working well with everyone that has tested it as far as I can tell. If you haven't tried this already please give it a go and post back on any issues that occur.

And thanks again to everyone who has tried the drivers. You've helped pin back the problem, and potential resolution being to turn OFF PCIE Gen 2.

I will leave the link active on the post about the updated drivers I put together incase anyone feels the urge to install the complete set of 15.57 drivers (including the updated SMbus driver which wouldn't update previously) that dell orignially posted.

 

Yep got a complete system freeze again with Titan Quest (with the M17x drivers on top of the 1340 ones). Then again, I just have to turn off the option in the bios when I know I will be playing this game (or Torchlight, who for some reason seems to have the exact same issues as TQ... wth is wrong with ARPG games lol)

 

Just turned off PCIE-Gen2 and updated drivers from BatBoy's 197.52 to 266.58, will let you know how it works out! A03 BIOS mind.

 

Another small issue I found when switching between discrete and integrated via Fn + F7... if ASPM was enabled in my bios it would cause the system to hard crash when trying Fn+F7, the nVidia boomerang or stealth mode. When I turned off ASPM I can swap between discrete and integrated as many times as I want without a crash occuring.

If anyone else is having this problem turn off ASPM in the graphics section of the bios and it should be fixed.

 

I've just had my own crash from simply logging back in from standby, however the GPU was somehow able to recover and not hard crash my system. I was able to get this screenshot from GPU-Z straight after showing the instantaneous crash during monitoring.



Well, gonna go swap PCIE Gen 2 back to off now.

 

Pretty damn good so far, very stable, haven't been playing anything too demanding though, just GTA San Andreas at the moment.

Did have one crash though, was fiddling about in the 3D Vision settings (I've a Samsung 2233rz) and was alt-tabbed looking on the Nvidia site and after a few minutes the laptop crashed (no BSOD or freeze, just instantly shut down). Aside from that it's perfect.

 

Want to chime in real quick as I spent a lot of time trying to get the Verde drivers to work right on my m17x R1.

Never tried turning off PCIE Gen 2.0 before, did it on Monday when I first saw people saying it worked and I have honestly not crashed since. Would explain a lot of what's wrong if it's the driver not being able to handle the constricted bus (which makes sense, since 99.9999% of my crashes have happened while watching movies, playing games, or while flash was loading... all things that would engage the graphics cards). I have seen no noticeable FPS drop in games (Dead Space 2, Team Fortress 2, WoW, Magicka) but I'll keep an eye.

@DELLChrisM: Wrong thread? I know you're addressing the throttling issue in the other thread, but I would think the incompability that exists with the m17x R1 and the latest generation of nVidia graphics drivers would also be something that would could use a comment on. Before my warranty expired, all phone support would tell me is "use P06" (since the verde drivers posted on the site crashed for me as well); not the ideal solution when the newer Verde drivers offer higher performance in new (late 2010 and on) games than the P06 (perfect example: Civ 5 in DX11 mode - Crawls on p06, runs like a dream at high quality on Verde). Not trying to nerdrage on you, but like getting what I paid for out of this laptop.

 

@DELLChrisM: I saw your "Wrong Thread" post a little while ago... I realise that Dell probably doesn't want to admit in any fashion that its 8x PCIE bus restriction is causing instabilities with the Verde drivers but seeing as I think we've pretty much honed in on this being the cause of the problem I think it would be nice to get some feedback other than "Wrong Thread". Not only that but you have even gone and deleted that post now... it might just be me but that kinda looks like your putting your tail between your legs and bolting quick fast from a topic dell doesn't want in on.

Now I'm sure I can say well all appreciate the support your providing on the throttling issue but if Dell really wants to show it still supports its M17xR1 then how about a little feedback on this Verde driver issue and why we have to turn off PCIE Gen 2 to get a stable system with any verde driver released over the almost 1 1/2 years now since verde came out.

I think a simple solution would be to remove the PCIE 8x bus restriction in the next bios... hopefully sooner than later. These cards already run hot when playing games, movies etc. so I can't imagine removing the restriction is going to severely impact on running temperatures.