GTX 1080/1070 (laptop) mxm?

Hi all! Do you think we'll be able to upgrade our Alienware with mxm port to the new nvidia GTX 1080 or 1070 mobile gpu? If you got some infos, feel free to post here

 

Not going to fit, see https://www.techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/10163-pascal-clevo-p-series-refresh/&page=1

 

Even if it fit it won't work.

 

Uh... I wanted to update my Alienware 17 (2014) in the future (in 2 years?) when the 1080 cards prices will drop but so it seems our last upgrade is the 980m.

 

How can we already call this impossible? The picture we have seen was of a custom PCB and thus won't fit.
But isn't it possible a normal xmx form factor will be made by somebody?

 

Only shot is 1060 MSI card, It's proper 3.0b but you need a 120Hz display to power it, If your machine doesn't have the eDP port then 980M is the last card, Pascal doesn't support LVDS anymore..

Checklist for the Pascal in Older machines, If any of it fails then SOL.
# eDP must
# The new cards come with an EC communication signal for the new power ports (No signal no boot). This had to be 'tricked' in older models in order for the cards to fire up...
# Fit

1070 MSI on the other hand is slightly enlarged and also has a tab on one side of the card So fitting that is impossible unless some dremel work and It ruins the chassis integrity, 1080 MSI has a power connector (6 pins) while Clevo cards have 8 pins so those cards won't even fit across brands...

Clevo P870DM was considered a future proof product but Clevo had other plans they just changed every 180W PCB 180W / 200W & normal 980M to another PCB design with all the new Pascal machines, Though we have the conformation that Clevo will standardize all MXM cards with the same format, Only time will tell. I'd suggest go Desktop route, because Pascal is a heat monster and throttle master, cooling those beefy 1070 / 1080 would be pita also holding clocks too need too much hassle with vBIOS / Heatsinks etc,

If any NBR member steps forward & to get the schematics of the cards, fund with all users who are willing to get a batch and make a standard MXM3.0b batch for us, It would be cool but needs superior contacts in the industry, I don't see that happening anytime soon, But I'm definitely IN for that offer.


TL;DR - We are royally screwed by Ngreedia, Clevo, MSI, ASUS for being a retard not to adopt the standard MXMs, Dell for going Private and mainstream Alienware trashbooks with BGA mess.

Spoiler: Want more ?

Info on the Pascal MXM cards and Machines -
Techinferno, P7xDM2/3 lounge , P870DM2/3 lounge, GTX 10 series mobile thread, 1080 MSI GT73VR, Take a look at the MSI 1080 MXM

All 900 series MXM's if you are interested
Need to keep up the pace else you'll be left behind..

EDIT : #2 seems daunting to me, IIRC Prema said that P8, P7 series also needs that EC trick to work, the Haswell Alienware machines sBIOSes are locked to hell and cannot perform any sort of modifications, So now the older unlocked BIOSes may have a chance but that might require help from Prema and Swick, I think guys we are done with Alienware for future upgrades. Very unfortunate turn of events. I hoped I can use my machine for 1 more generation until HBM, AW seems bleak to me...& who knows when HBM2 comes with Pascal Gen 2 or Volta there might be another GPU MXM refresh with more wierd shapes or no Heatsink matches or even chassis changes like the 870DM -> 870DM2/3 now they are EOL already without any scope of 1080 Clevos or 1070 Clevos, they only have the MSI 1070 options or a single Clevo 1080 option which also might need cable mods because of the power supply changing from 6 4 pin to 8 pin on new clevos...MSI 1080 also has 6 pin but god knows whether the Mobo can take it or not.

So I'd advice to all users who are planning to pursue the Laptop DTR path thinking of future upgrades like the M18x R2 / P570WM / AW17, M17x R4 etc, the market is shifting and we are minority unless a brave company comes with some superior designs with modular form factors.

Best go DT route for maximum performance, 4K for a 1080 SLI Clevo / MSI is not worth at all while you can literally rampage that DTR with a similar priced HEDT machine. I wish I could go HEDT but constraints won't let me..

 

Lucky i have the 120Hz display in my AW17 Ranger, not sure about the eDP.
Will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

I don't remember correctly but I think it has 120Hz LVDS, someone knows better?

Also AW17 BIOS is locked with secureflash, no chance to modify anything.

 

The Alienware 17 R1 has an LVDS and an EDP port. When you do the 120hz upgrade you swap the cable from the LVDS to the EDP or you could potentially brick the machine.

 

I am curious as to why you want to spend money trying to upgrade the GPU?

I also have one of the 1st Ranger units that came out almost 4 years ago. Mine is still under warranty until this December.
At the beginning I did have to return it twice for a motherboard issue that a lot of people had (forget the issue) but after that this system has worked perfectly.
There is only one thing I have a problem with that is not the laptops fault because it is an old system and that is in regards to casting from the laptop to a TV or other devices except for music as I can send to my Denon 3312CI receiver. I wish to have this but the GPU and CPU are incapatible in this regard.

I have been pricing units in case I want to buy a new system after my warranty runs out and give this one away to charity.
I saw a post on Toms Harware regarding new systems with the new GPU's and one was listed just under $7,000 which is crazy.
I am willing to pay between $2,000 to $3,000 for a maxed system with 3 year warranty but no way are these worth what they are listed at now.

 

Update - for people looking to upgrade from 980M

Update 2 : Make your voice heard, Lets vote for choice !!

 

Hi, I'm trying to dig up what I can about the potential to upgrade a 17" Dell Precision system with the GeForce 1060. I realize that the 1070 and 1080 are a no-go, due to their size and extra power requirements, but the 1060 looks like a regular MXM 3.0b card. I'm looking at your short checklist.

# You mention that LVDS is not supported anymore, would that matter if NVIDIA Optimus / graphics switching is used? The display is still driven by the Intel GPU in this case, should take LVDS/eDP out of the equation.
# Does this EC communications signal thing matter for the 1060? It doesn't have an extra power port as far as I can tell.
# Looks like it would fit fine as a regular MXM card.

Do you know of any other reasons that it wouldn't work?

GeForce 1060 may be only marginally faster than a 980M, but I'm expecting it to be a good bit cheaper as well.

 

1070 is manageable since It's a drop in replacement for the 980M class card, but no 3.0b form factor exist, MSI 1070 is close but the design is gimped on purpose, check the Pascal refresh T|I thread on all MXMs if you missed...

Next is about the LVDS/eDP thing, First the Pascal needs eDP LCD outputs irc, I don't think the LVDS machines can boot with a Pascal card. Yes the optimus machines only use LVDS, my AW17 is 60Hz has mux switching optimus but has the eDP port on the Mobo to house a 120Hz panel. It's safe to say that having eDP on Mobo assures that machine can run a Pascal card.

Also to mention I came to know that Clevo's new Pascal 6 Series laptops (Soldered HW) use Mux switching, MSI's new Pascal GT laptops also have that optimus ( GT73VR Optimus mux confirmed ), I don't get how the Intel iGPUs are working with 120Hz laptops now, Maybe the driver is updated or the Optimus is making the display downclock or this option only exists with 60Hz GSync, since the new machines are out the GSync (still some displays are being certified by nGreedia's ransom tactics) / 120Hz 5ms panel option is really hazy since most of them are reporting 25ms instead of 5ms because of LG panel in MSI while Clevo 120Hz 5ms are still not certified with GSync and they are only in 7 and 8 series so no Optimus there and some machines don't have the advertised refresh rate @hmscott knows well about MSI machines, Sorry for the deviation there...things are really complex this time with new products flooding.

Yes the 1060 MSI card is 3.0b mxm, replacing the 970M class, lower TDP as well with 25% boost over 980M but less bus width @192bit vs 980M at 256 and less vRAM at 6GB GDDR5 It seems a good option for upgrading and technically It should work, But there's a kicker again, the EC trick needs to be done wr.to old machines + Pascal card upgrades - A hard mod needs to be done ATM & this is not related to the power ports but rather the Pascal is being different from Maxwell with this LVDS dropping, EC signal response.

I'd say wait for the dust to settle in with this Pascal, 1060 seems to be plausible but getting a card would be tough job since MSI cards are not easy to source, Also the MSI promise of upgradeability for the old machines is in ambiguity too...

TL;DR (Sorry if this had complicated things ...)
Better option is to wait, hold off for a few more weeks and yes the 1060 is safe bet given you have the eDP port and a 120Hz display option, EC hack...things might change with time from hardmods to firmware mods type & maybe fix for LVDS too..

P.S - Please do vote for the MXM in that Poll, thanks !

 

Thanks for your quick reply, no problem, I realize things are complicated which is why I am trying to gather information. If I purchase a new card it will not be until around the end of the year. (Not sure how long it will take before it is possible/easy to source a card by itself.) I may also wait until Pascal-based mobile Quadros are available and see what's going on there, it is less hassle to upgrade to a Quadro in the Precision systems (don't have to worry as much about the BIOS being happy or driver/INF modding generally) but they are more pricey... 980M works with but only with INF mod.

Not convinced that 1070 will work as an upgrade, from what I can tell it needs 120W which is higher than a regular MXM port can offer, so it may need an extra power connector even if someone gets it to fit in a regular MXM 3.0b card form factor.

The Precision M6700 has both LVDS and eDP connectors, Optimus is only possible with LVDS, and I'm afraid I'll run into this annoying NVIDIA issue if I run on the NVIDIA GPU by itself so I am not planning to switch to an eDP panel.

I've poked around some other threads but most of the discussion is on the 1070/1080. Have you seen any detailed information about the hardware mod that needs to be done for the EC signal thing?

 

Actually 980M consumes over 120W, I've seen 124W peak with FS Ultra alone, if you OC it it can even reach over 135W, MXM3.0b can take that amount of power draw w/o any issues, And I'll read that thread about the optimus issue later. Nope, no info on the Mod as of yet, Prema is very busy with his sBIOS mods to the Clevo resellers for his custom sBIOS and Pascal taming as it's a throttle master, I'd bet that 1060 in all those thin machines is going to suffer a lot since Pascal throttles like there's no tomorrow heck even at 46C and 10c increments, which is nasty and check this -> detailed first impressions with MSI 1070, We should wait for more info, 3-4 months give or take...

 

140 on 1.075 (aw18, clevo 980m)

 

150W @ 1.075v few minutes before the crappy 3 out of 6 MOSFETs blackscreen on me.

 

wasn't the 980m meant to have 6 mosfet?

 

Seems like guys we are having AMD coming to MXM this year

 

It would have been nice if they'd released a 990m or something, just as a thanks to everyone who bought a MXM laptop.

 

Insinuating that Nvidia gives a s*** about us? Nvidia does not care one way or the other. Even if they did release it your looking at a $1000 plus upgrade.

 

There was 980MX planned but they terminated the project.

 

It makes me wonder how long Nvidia has had the capability to scale a desktop card into a laptop form factor. Weather they actually just achieved this or if they have had the capability for awhile and just been holding off.

 

They've had this since Maxwell. Problem is they couldn't get it to fit under MXM 3.0B so they just threw the standard out the window. All the 1070/1080 cards are non conforming to the standard.

 

We know that Pascal is extremely powerful vs Maxwell scaled into a 16nm with higher clock speeds but still It's a Maxwell die shrink. IF they had enough will to compete they would have definitely done the optimization part or making a real architectural change, MXM dropping off also because of the iSheeple beat the ones who actually think in numbers. MSI manufactures the Clevo cards as well, No Idea why wouldn't they give us a damn 3.0b while the GTX 1070 MSI is fairly same as a 3.0b except that damn tab to lock most of us out, Truly anti-consumer It's what they want to be pushed not consumer wants, even public companies doing this sucks big time. Alienware went full retard private shooting themselves in head and us in gut.

Sad phase for mobile market imho, we can play only by the rules set by them...

 

I ditched my G73JH because of limited to no upgrade path. So is AMD still on the table? Would the GTX1060 be the same as the 980 but, lower wattage? I'd think maybe the 980 might be a tad faster.

EDIT: Is alienware soldered on to the MB now?

 

Some new upgrades for our Alienware 17. Please see these 2 links:

http://dell.benyouhui.it168.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=5730323&extra=page=4&mobile=2

http://alienware-forum.de/index.php/Thread/8042-AW17-R1-3D-120Hz-GTX-980-N16E-GXX/

I used google translate

So, who want to give it a try and share the conclusion with us. There are 2 solutions: using 980 gtx (without M) and using 1060 gtx

PS: I would edit thread name to "Next Alienware 17 mxm GPU upgrade?"

 

Correct link is: http://dell.benyouhui.it168.com/thread-5730323-1-4.html

So this means we can install a 1060 on the AW17 R1 (Ranger 2013) ?

 

Yes, given these link, this is possible to use 1060. But we need more talking here!

 

Yes 1060 works, But you will need a cable hardmod hack to make it work with the EC trick and also Prema vBIOS which is a slim chance since he stated, he won't make any vBIOSes for the MSI Pascals...

Also 1060 is not worth over 980M, expensive, just 15% boost, Who knows whether the Fan control works or not on even Auto ? if it doesn't it's no brainer to not to opt for the Pascal cards, I'd say give some time if we see somehing happening we muight be lucky enough like this one here - 485-495x upgraded 95W purported revision of MXM AMD, check out the discussion there too since it's a proper MXM3.0b standard it's fairly easy to make it work.

And more coverage from the MXM thread to highlight.

And badnews for those who are thinking going GTX980 M5500 MSI card.

 

Here's a strange one for you.
I called Dell AU today as I have a customer order (rather large) and wanted to negotiate on price, my customer wanted the follow specs.
i7 6700HQ
GTX 1070 GPU,
1920 x 1080 FHD screen
99 Wh battery
Win 10 Pro.
According to the sales rep I spoke with (and he confirmed it with his super) the GTX1070 is not compatible with the 1080p FHD screen.
I find that a little hard to believe and feel like Dell is pushing people to the more expensive QHD.
I can only go from previous models I've worked on but the cables for a FHD and QHD have had the same mobo connection in the past, so makes me wonder why it wont work.
Sounds strange to me.

 

Maybe it has something to do with LVDS not being compatible with Pascal.

 

Sorry I should have been a bit more specific. When I say "Previous models" I'm referring to the last two issues (with the BGA rubbish) those only had eDP screen connections, nothing else. So that's why I don't get it...

 

I guess It's more of a configuration issue, They are plain dumb no technical knowledge. Seems like 6820HK is removed from configurator as well, 1080 is late Nov along with the QHD AUO 120Hz Wide Angle TN panel, Also I suggest you to look at the GT73VR or the Eurocom Tornado F5 instead of the new echo throttling pos if you want a good build quality rather than having a notch lower quality by going with Clevo, but yeah they have the best HW atm.

All the Pascal laptops have the eDP only, the Alienware Voyager/Ranger have eDP/LVDS combos. I don't know about the BGA trash maybe they don't have LVDS on them, Doesn't even matter they are just going to dumpster anyways.

 

That's a shame it's not compatible since my alienware 15R3 has a 1080p screen and the 1070 works flawlessly in it.

the issue is simple : logistic, they created specific barebones with specific screens for different price range. so you'll have the 'entry' i5/1060 and the 'cash cow' QHD/1070. That way if a customer wants just a QHD or just a 1070 he has to pay for the whole package ^^. Sadly it's a common practice.

 

That's good to know, and I suspected as much.
The rep did not say I could not do it, he just said he was not sure if I would have issues with it.
I might push a bit harder and see what Dell does, considering I'm going to purchase between 35+ of these in one hit I should be able to get what I'm after.
Your confirmation of 1080p working in the new AW15R3 is a help

 

http://www.eurocom.com/ec/release(350)ec

" Eurocom offers upgradeable MXM based VR Ready NVIDIA GeForce GTX 10 series 1080, 1070, 1060 Pascal graphics cards "

Maybe we'll find something for our Alienware17. But from where will be the aux power?

 

Just to chime in.. the new Alien 17 (R4) has no IGZO screen and 300nit instead of 400nit on the 4k of the R3.

I got the 980M just to play games when needed but most of the time I don't game on it. I did play CSGO ranked in bed w/ friends and had the highest score many times because the touchpad is so good at 1080p.

I got the Alien 17 R3 for other reasons than gaming and probably the 4k IGZO is the best you can get forever.

They probably used it as a selling point to get a lot of customers and took a loss for it. Even on Best Buy they sell for like $1100 openbox with the 4k. Nothing wrong with it, 970 GTX. I even showed people at the store about how good it is and how it's better than everything else in the store even at $2k but people don't really care.