GTX285m SLI vs HD 5870 Crossfire

Hey all,

i'm looking at buying my first Alienware laptop in the next few weeks (M17X obviously) but now that the GTX285m SLI configuration is an option, i'm having trouble deciding which to go for.

I know that the HD5870 performs better, but the GTX285m has Cuda, PhysX, etc. I will be using the laptop for a lot of video editing, so I think those would come in handy.

So the purpose of this thread.. pros and cons for each configuration... Which do you all think is better, and is there any point waiting to see if Dell are going to offer up the 400 series Nvidia GPUs any time soon?

Thanks for any info.

 

In general, SLI plays nicer than X-fire. The 5870's would be faster but ATI's drivers for X-fire could leave you more fustrated than happy.

 

Yep in general SLi and Nvidia have much greater support for games + all those other perks you get with cuda physX and stuff. I'm waiting for Lozz to get his new machine with the SLi 285s then we will do some benches and compare scores. See how it goes.

Also depending when you want to buy or the very last week or day before you buy I guess you can just wait as long as you can and check often to see if there are any new changes from dell regarding the 400m GPUs. There is no official word on when they of if they will be putting them in this current system. So I would just wait as long as you can I guess until you need the system then just buy the best you can now.

Also see if you can find out which of your program apps that you will be running supports SLi or Crossfire better. It that is your main usage point then that should help you decide whether ATi or Nvidia.

Cheers.

 

Hello Guys,
I have a small question about Wifi Card in M17x. I'm going to order my first Alienware M17x like SnapDragon but in Malaysia instead of the US (I'm living in Vietnam). Unfortunatelly, there was only one option for the Wifi Card which was Dell™ Wireless 1520 802.11n Half Mini-Card. This concern prevented me from ordering the laptop. I would be very happy if the Wifi card is the 6300 Ultimate. Does the 6300 Ultimate have better connectivity?. Thanks for any comments .

 

CUDA only works for programs specifically written for the language, and your average $100-150 video editing software is not. I would specifically look at which programs I used to determine whether it supports it or not.

no, I wouldn't expect them in an M17X R2 within the next 2-3 months at the earliest.

if you want a solid gamming computer, the 5870s are a no brainer, all the quarks have been worked out, they're slightly faster than 285s, they overclock better, they're cheaper and they also have directx 11 support. The only reason to go for 285s are for the cuda or physx support(or if you just really like NV green team), but other 'pros' include slightly more battery life and as mentioned, a wider and more stable multi-gpu system, drivers are slightly better as well, but that gap has been closing ever since AMD started writing the drivers. We're also just crossing our fingers that Dell has applied what they learned from the 280s in the R1 to the 285s, there's still the chance that they could be just as bugged as the 280s were at release.

 

Thanks for the info guys.

I just realised that the editing program I use (Avid) only supports Nvidia cards.

I guess my decision is made

 

I think the real question is the following:

Is it worth waiting for the 6xxxM series that may come out at the end of October?

For anyone thinking about getting an M17X in the next few months I believe the question is legitimate...

 

Oh wow really that soon ey chiefs. End of October ey. You mean they will be making some sort of announcement or something about the new AMD 6870?

Cheers.

 

Really? Where did you hear that? That'd be awesome.

 

Radeon HD 6000 launch in late October

many sources out there

 

Hmm fair enough, but what's to say Alienware will put it in the M17X straight away? Could take months.

 

sure could. but it becomes a case of is a possible performance increase worth the wait.

 

What's the problem in 280's in R1??? I can't detect it

 

The problems have since been fixed mostly. DPC latency caused by the graphics card drivers come to mind however. Some people got some SLI shuddering as well.

 

Yes my point was the following:

Is it worth the wait? Of course it is unlikely that AW will have an M17X with the new cards at the end of October but towards December sure, why not...

So since it is possible, the whole question is it worth the wait? Is the reward in performance worth the 3 months wait time?

 

You could always just pretend the 3 months wait time was due to undersupply and overdemand like it was in the first few months of this year where people were waiting up to 3 months for delivery after placing their orders.

 

The stuttering is due to the system BIOS and not the gpus. I can make the system stutter with my 4870s in as well

The GTX 280m's have always worked just fine (DPC issues aside)

My recommendation would be: If you need that video program and it supports CUDA, get the GTX 285s. If not, get the 5870s. PhysX is not good enough to be the make or break (and MANY game developers agree, thus it is not widely used at all)

And look at what is out today, because there is always a new product on the horizon and the grass will always be greener on the other side

 

yes, but for most people, the issue was resolved with a driver update correct? Unless I'm not remembering the fix right.

 

Lozz, when are you getting your new machine? I'm almost at the end of my 21 day period and would like to see some results before I decide to return or keep it.

 

You will not believe what just happened to me. I wish I could have recorded that for you guys to listen to.

Me: "So basically you are telling me that I've had a brick for two weeks and you have no video cards for replacement for another week?"

Dell Tech: "Yes sir"

Me: "Well, I saw on the website you now have the 285M SLI, why don't you just give me those?"

Dell Tech: "Let me check if that's possible"

10 minutes after, no joke...

Dell Tech: "Sir, it seems that the 285M SLI are not compatible with the CPU you have..."

Me: "Are you telling me that the 820M does not work with the 285M SLI?"

Dell Tech: "That is correct sir"

Me: "Stop calling me sir first of all, do you think I am an idiot??? Let's just return the PC then. It's going to cost you more to have it shipped back rather than just sending me the 285M SLI or the 5870 Crossfire which I paid for..."

Dell Tech: "Well, if you wait a week, we should have the 5870 Crossfire in stock"

Me: "No thanks, thank you...."




Can you believe this guy has the audacity to tell me that only my CPU is not compatible with the 285M. Who do they think we are??? We are alienware users not Ipad users seriously...

 

That tech was probably clueless. You need to call again until you get ahold of someone who is actually educated in this field. Usually takes me 3-4 times before I get someone who actually knows what's going on.

 

Yeah but it's not acceptable. Alienware users should have better tech representatives.

 

Definitely. It sucks Dell kind of mixed up the two brands.

Are you going to push for the GTX285's? I think you can since they are out of 5870's for a while.

I have less than a week left and would love to see some results.

 

It is my third attempt in a few days to push for the 285M and they won't do it. I am returning the system as we speak. Let me tell you I am sad I have to return it because I am not asking for anything bad just either get me the cards I paid for or better...

The only option they had for me was to get 4870 crossfire or return the PC or wait...

I've waited 3 weeks, it's enough, I have been patient enough. I am returning the PC. I will order again very soon.

I don't think they understand how much it costs them to have such noob reps...

They would send the 285M and we would be done.

 

that made me laugh

yes many will answer stupid thing i told alienware that the right usb port on the m17 where on a separate board and not on the mobo the tech where clueless like if they never opened a m17 befor

 

im guessing 99% of them have not opened a unit .. and 97% of them never bothered to look at a service manual either

 

I think the reason behind their "please hold 2-3min while I research this issue" is so they can go and look up the service manual in that time frame and still come back clueless.

 

exactly !!!!!! and even look at the wrong model while they are at it

 

Yeah, when I gave him my service tag, he says it's Alienware system right? I am like yes. Then during the conversion he says your inspiron has a 21 days return policy...

Look if you cannot do your job right just don't do it. This is giving a bad name for Alienware and Dell and the problem is that I am clearly not the only one that it happened to...

 

We are alienware users not Ipad users seriously...[/QUOTE]

Best post I've read all day.

 

You can always ask for a manager.

 

I have... That is the sad part...

 

ordered the 21st with NBD shipping. I was told 15-20 days(although I assume that's acutally business days, which translates into 3-4 weeks) as of now it still says in production. Alienware systems have a 90day return policy. There's a chance (albeit a small one) that I *might* have some $$$ for a 940XM ES before or soon after it gets here.

joe I'd call up someone @ blackhawk, I can tell you right now they're telling you it's in-compatible because they're just looking @ the online configurator,the 820QM is no longer available so I'm sure they're just assuming it won't work. When the guy was ordering my new system he was using the exact same online configurator we do, he didn't even know the 285s were even available yet until he actually looked.

Although I will say, I tried to just 'switch' graphics cards when I got my first R2, and after a week of calling different agents I just finally gave up. They're definitely not very willing to switch around configurations very much, but I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with it all things considered. Is this your first parts service with the laptop?

 

One time I was calling to buy a MR5850 for my M15x, and they tell me that a 5970 is better.

I got so sick of dealing with them I just put my Clevo card in, but I would've preferred to have the Dell warranty. Oh well.

You have a PM about this.

 

Same issue with my system (purchased in AUS). Only DW 1520 available as an option.

I puchased the WiFi 6300 on eBay for around US$25 and found a great YouTube video showing how to tear down the m17x and replace the WiFi card.

Quite straight forward.

As far as performance is concerned, I find better reception due to the 3 antenna (increased range - not sure about speed).

Cheers

Sorry guys ... off topic slightly ...


M17x-R2 Black | i7-840QM | 8GB-1333MHz DDR3 RAM | ATI Mobility Radeon HD5870 CrossFireX | 17" 1920x1200 RGB LED | 1TB Raid0 7.200rpm HDD | Bluetooth 370 | Intel WiFi 6300 | Windows 7 Ultimate

 

Yeah the laptop is new and within the 21 days period. I have returned it last night. Printing out the label and sending it out tomorrow.

It kept crashing every hour or so of gaming, always the same driver crashing. Some ATI driver according to bluescreenviewer.

 

The first guy you talk to on the phone in any support organization is a Tier 1 technician. They aren't supposed to know what they are talking about (as a rule). They work off of TSGs (step by step docs that tell them what to tell you based on what your issue is). They exist to route tickets to the appropriate resource if they can't resolve an issue based on TSG steps. My point is, if a Tier 1 tech support guy doesn't exactly know what he's talking about then that's not something to get furiously upset over.

As for him referring to your laptop as an Inspiron, that's just a branding issue. The M17x R2 actually has at least one asset value in the BIOS that calls it an "Inspiron m17x r2". I chuckled when I noticed that, as I guess it means the Borg assimilation of Alienware by Dell is proceeding nicely...

Regarding the "Your CPU is incompatible with that video card" issue, that might not just be the technician reading his run guide wrong. This appears to be Dell's position that 500 and 600 series i7s cannot be bundled with 285ms. Why this is, I have no idea. It could be because they just don't want to do it or because there's some actual issue (i.e. 600 series or lower chips are sold with an earlier revision motherboard?). The tech's statement of "that cpu can't work with that video card" is likely not actually the case, but it may be a "lost in translation" issue as his run guide says "If the system was configured with this CPU then it is not elligible for an upgrade to a 285m due to compatibility issues."

Admittedly I'm just spitballing on that one, but if you go Dell's site and try to configure a new R2 unit with 285ms it'll balk if you select the i5 540m or the i7 620m so there's probably something to what he's saying even if he doesn't understand it well enough to explain it. Does anyone else know why this would be?

-Byshop

 

Your statement could be true if my CPU was a 620M but as mentioned before and in my sig it is an 820M. The Dell tech guy actually repeated 820M a few times.

Nonetheless, there should be no issue with the 500 or 600 series and the 285M even if I had one of those CPU.

 

unless policy changed, alienware systems can be returned within 90 days, not the usual 21.

500 and 600 processores are the arrandale chips, which have the IGP ondie. Studdering problems because of that could be a reason why they do not allow that configuration.

 

The IGP should not cause any issues because it is disabled at the BIOS level in the M17x. What studdering problems are you referring to?

 

It changed. Their site says 30 days instead of 21 days told by one of their reps.

Did your new system ship yet? Can't wait to see some results.

 

The ones the AW rep gave when I asked if I could get some 285s initially. I'm not suggesting there are any, just suggesting the on-die IGP as a reason. it's the only variable between the 500/600 and the 7/8/9 series processors. As unusual as Dell is, I can't see why they would limit processor choice 'just for the heck of it' I'm sure there's a reason why they don't want us using arrandale processors with the 285.

well that sucks..

no, it hasen't still in production. I check it daily, so when it changes, you can bet your R2 I'll post it up.

 

I expect them to make up excuses when they do not know the answer....that sounds like a made up excuse haha

 

Yeah, but my point is that while it's true that -none- of these CPUs should have any problem with the video card there may be something else (like a motherboard rev) that is the issue. The Dell site automatically disqualifies you based on CPU model, which may be the front-end for another compatibility issue. The Dell tech has your service tag number, which gives him a detailed breakdown of every part in your system. If it's a motherboard rev issue, then that would make sense.

It's conceivable that the lower end i5 and i7 are sold with an earlier revision motherboard today that isn't compatible with the 285m (i.e. this would explain why the site automatically disqualifies you if you pick either of these two chips). Since an Nvidia option wasn't available for the R2 for the majority of the time it's been around it's also conceivable that regardless of which CPU you chose you may have the earlier revision board regardless of which chip you bought. Laptop companies are notorious for this kind of thing. I used to go nuts trying to support Compaq laptops because every model number could house any of a dozen different brands of components.

Again, just spitballing. If anyone has any more concrete info please chime in.

-Byshop

 

I expect that too lol.

afaik, there is only 1 revision of the R2 mainboard, wouldn't be a good idea to sell two incompatible mainboard revisions. It would be a nightmare for their upgrade department to explain to customers they were sold non-upgradeable hardware and require a new mainboard that offers no additional performance that costs $350.

 

There is no physical reason why SLI will not work on this laptop. Is about that simple. There are 2 MXM slots and they are able to communicate properly (CF working). The power needs should not be the an excuse as again, MXM slots which are standardized. The only changes that would need to be made if any would be BIOS level

 

is the m17x hm55 or pm55? if it's pm then no only is the IG disabeled but it simply is unusable

 

It's PM55.

+1

 

PM55. You cannot have dual card configurations and the IGP enabled (sadly). So it is either HM55 for IGP or PM55 for SLI/CF

This is because the PM55 chipset came out before the Arrandale cpus did so I guess they never thought to future proof it by including the IGP functionality. It is a huge shame because if it had this then the R2 would be even more awesome of a laptop due to 3+ hours battery life option

 

actualy pm55 and hm55 have been out exactly on the same day it's intel's naming scheme for saying if it had an IGP or not it's always been like that like for pm45 and hm45

only the HM variant is a little more expensive to handle the IGP