Help installing 580m

Any reason you can't just cover the 2x4 chips sets on both sides instead of using such a large thermal pad on the bottom of both side (asking cause I don't think I have that much thermal pad)

 

I don't know the configuration of your HS, so it's hard to answer precisely. Obviously you cover the VRAM chips. But also anything else that will have direct contact with the heatsink. Since all of these cards are supposed to follow the same basic design config, usually the pads used with your HS for the previous card will do fine.

Edit: That picture is of the back of two different cards; the other is either a 6990M or a Eurocomm 580M backplate if I recall. It was meant to show the difference between the backplates.

 

Gotcha, catching on slowly. I got the picture of where to place thermal pad on the front side so tomorrow morning when I throw it together, i'll find out the hard way.

 

Have fun with it. Ought to be a demon beast.

 

God this nightmare never ends. So a Dell technician came to install the card. First he puts the card in, we turn on the computer, and it says that a new device was successfully installed. Then he decides to put some paste substance on the center chip of the video card. He only removes the heatsink when he does this. He keeps the card plugged in. After he leaves I turn on the computer and now its not detecting the card at all. Could the paste have done something? Im pretty sure the card isnt faulty if it just picked it up before

 

No, the paste isn't the issue. What happens when the computer boots? Does it start Windows? Have you installed drivers for the 580M?

 

Ok I'm glad the paste isnt the issue. Out of curiosity, I did a system restore to before I installed some updates and it reinstalled a device, like it did after first installing the card. However, it wasn't the 580m in the first place, it was the Intel gpu. What's strange is that last week I installed the card myself and it detected it. However, it was running really hot so I assumed I installed it incorrectly. That's why I took it out and called a Dell tech to do it. To answer your question, the computer boots fine. It starts Windows. I cannot install the drivers for the 580m because it cannot find compatible hardware. It is not appearing in my device manager or my bios. What could be different this time than last time I did it? The only thing the Dell tech did is that he used the old thermal pads because he said they were better, and used the new x plate and new screws instead of the old one like I did before. Why isn't my computer detecting it now?

 

Feral9, is the only Display adapter shown in Device Manager the Intel IGP? No VGA device or unknown device there? When you did the system restore, was it to a time when you had the 460M installed? If so, the old 460M drivers and even the system config settings may be all still be tied to that old card.

I would first do a power drain (unplug, remove battery, press and hold power button for 15-20 seconds, replace battery and plug in). Maybe, hopefully, when it boots, it will find new hardware (the 580M) and try to install a driver. Since it doesn't yet know what the card is, it should install the Standard VGA device for the second card.

If that occurs, then the card is physically recognized but not identified. It needs the 580M drivers to accomplish that. But before installing the new drivers, do a deep clean to get rid of the 460M drivers and registry settings. (in Control Panel>Uninstall a Program, remove all Nvidia entries - it may take several reboots to get them all. Then restart in Safe Mode (tapping F8 at the boot screen) and run Driver Sweeper ( http://phyxion.net/item/driver-sweeper.html), checking all Nvidia items. After cleaning with DS, reboot and run scan and repair the Registry with Ccleaner ( Piriform - Download CCleaner, Defraggler, Recuva, Speccy - Millions of users worldwide!) to get rid of any leftover remnants from the 460M.

When finished, reboot and install the 580M drivers. You might try the 290.53 beta drivers from the Nvidia support/driver download site. Graphics Driver - Verde 290.53 Driver - GeForce.

If that doesn't work, we'll retrench, but there about has to be a hardware issue.

 

Yes the only display adapter is the Intel IGP. And yes I did a system restore to when the 460m was installed.

I did the power drain, but that did not do anything. I also removed the cmos battery as suggested in another thread and that did nothing as well.

As of now, the card is not being recognized at all in my laptop.

 

One more thing -- check the setting for Primary Display on the Advanced Menu. The standard setting for most configurations (ex 3D screen) is SG (Switchable Graphics). If set wrong, it can exclude a card from recognition by the system, in either the BIOS or Device Manager.

If the Primary Display is set properly, then I would suggest re-seating the 580M one more time after removal and carefully cleaning the contacts (pencil eraser and soft cloth works well). If it is still not recognized, it's showing every sign of a dead card. Sorry.

 

I'll have to check about the primary adaptor later. I have two reasons why I think the card is not broken. First, when I put the card in myself last week, my computer detected it. Like I mentioned, I removed it because I was unsure if I did it correctly. Secondly, when I tried putting back the 460m yesterday after the technician left, it was ALSO not detected, meaning it seems to be a laptop issue. After discovering this, I put the 580m as the technician left it. I suppose I'd rather it be this way because my warranty should cover it, as it was the technician's doing, right?

 

Do your BIOS detect the card at all? As Revelator said, check your bios and see if you are on Switchable Graphics. If on, then you should see 2 card in the main bios screen, Integrated Graphics: Intel Sandy Bridge. Discrete Graphics: NVIDIA, or vice versa. If you don't see one that says "NVIDIA", then your card is not being detected and is likely dead. If you see "NVIDIA" then you have a software issue that needs to be resolved so that the card can be used.

Also Dell will probably not warranty your card since they did not make it or sell it. The fact that they sent a tech to install it is pretty miraculous.

Here is photo of what your BIOS screen should show. See how on the Discrete says: NVIDIA. If yours says "none" you may be in trouble.

 

Ya mine says not detected. Like I said prior, I can't it imagine it is dead as I installed it myself last week and it was detected fine. I removed it and replaced my old card (which worked fine as before) because I was unsure if I did it correctly and called a dell tech to do it. When he installed the card, that was when it did not detect it. After he left, I tried switching to my old graphics card out of curiosity and it was also NOT detected. I've since then placed everything as the tech left it for when the next tech comes. So this tech ended up screwing me even more. It might be a computer issue.

Here is what I did when I installed the card last week (when it worked) differently from the Dell tech:
1. He used the x plate that was on the new card. I used the old card's one (the one with the metal flap covering some vram chips. The new card's plate does not have the metal flap)
Could this be the issue? Do I have to use the old x plate? The Dell tech wanted to use the old one, but then he broke it so we had to use the new one? (The new x plate is what I had to use when I tried placing the old card back in and was undetected as well). I suppose that because it was his fault and it was on the old card, then it is under warranty and I could get it replaced, right?
2. Going along with the first one, because I used the old x plate on the new card when I installed it last week, I had to use the old screws to screw it to the heatsink. The new screws that were shipped only fit into the new x plate.
3. He used the old thermal pads (the green ones). When I installed the card last week, I used the ones that were shipped with the new card (blue ones). The Dell tech said the old green ones were better.

Could any of these differences be why the card is not detected? I'm no laptop whiz, but it seems that the x plate is the problem (if the issue is indeed hardware/installation related and not software). Like I said, the Dell tech broke the old one so I can only use the new one shipped. This is everything I know. What do you think?

 

Possibly yes, when Widezu use an M18 backplate (which covers both VRAM chip rows) on his M17r3, it caused the GPU to not work at all, very similar to your situation. (I would search his posts for that incident and read up on it) It is possible using the incorrect bracket causes a short.

I would use a true 580m backplate, it sounds like the 460m plate is similar, but I have never seen one so I don't know.

Dell should replace your 460m backplate since they broke it. Ask for a 580m backplate and see if they will give it to you.

Old pads should be fine.

On a separate note, it isn't good to have two threads going on the same topic, it spreads the knowledge over a larger area and makes it hard to find again in the future. I would keep all future posts either here, or in the other thread. Or request a moderator merge them. Cross posting is considered bad etiquette (don't worry we all learn sometime).

 

Wait, so x plate = backplate? I just need to know if theyre the same to avoid term confusion. Now you've got me worried. Could mixing backplates permanently damage the cards? To be clear, the backplate the technician used was the one that came with card. When I tried installing the card last week, I used the old cards backplate (the one with the metal flap) and it was detected. Now that the card is installed by the technician with the NEW x backplate (the one it came with), its not working. Also, I tried to re-insert the OLD video card with the NEW card's backplate after he left and it was NOT detected. It seems the only time BOTH cards have worked was when the old backplate was used.

 

Correct.

I also agree with your conclusion that the new plate could be causing your cards not work. Either that, or they are dead. Get a new plate and hopefully that will fix it. Call dell and they will send you a new one. Try and get a 460 and a 580 plate so you can see if they are different.

 

Ok, I will tell them when I call tomorrow about the previous tech breaking the backplate. Like I mentioned, the backplates ARE different. The original 460m's was grey and had a metal flap. The 580m's is black and is simply the x shaped piece of metal. I cannot imagine that the 580m randomly fried if, like I said, it was working last week (with the 460m's backplate). Even more absurd is that the 460m also fried when I tried placing it back in using the 580m's backplate. It seems that I need the 460m backplate, which the tech was originally going to use until he broke off a screw. I'm guessing they would definitely send me a new 460m backplate? Also, if worst comes to worst, they would give me a new 460m if it's fried because I would ask them to re-insert it to see if it is indeed broken (when using the original backplate).

 

Well if anyone is still following this thread, here's some status updates:
The Dell tech came in today and he brought a new heatsink, cooling fan, 460m, and backplate sent to him by Dell. We attempted to install the 580m with the backplate they sent (its grey with a metal flap) and the card was still not detected. We then tried to install the old 460m with the same backplate and same thing. Lastly, we tried to install the new 460m with the backplate and, surprise, not detected. The tech concluded that it was a motherboard issue.

So when I called Alienware tech support, they told me that I need to send my laptop to depot to have the motherboard and 460m replaced. He was originally going to have it sent to the Dell tech, but he concluded that the motherboard malfunctioned as a result of attempting to install the 3rd partyt 580m. He decided to make an exception, (because the earlier support agent made apparently made the mistake of sending me a tech to install a NOT Dell card, which he wasnt supposed to) and is allowing me to send in my computer for repair free of charge. However, it will have the 460m and I will not be able to request Dell to install the 3rd party 580m, as they did before by mistake.

So, in the end, the 580m card appears to work but I am afraid of attempting to install it myself for fear of breaking the motherboard again (as the Dell tech seemed to have done). It's funny, because when I installed the card a week prior to the Dell tech coming, the card was detected and appeared to work fine (aside from overheating, but I think that was because I used shoddy thermal pads).

Does anyone know why the motherboard fried? Dare I attempt to install the card myself again? The card appears to be working fine, and I don't think Eurocom will accept refunds, even if I tell them that it does not work. If that's the case, does any1 want to purchase it? I will of course sell it for a vastly reduced price.

 

That 580M is tempting ;O

PM me with a number

 

I am confused, wont Dell sell you a 580m and install it? You can probably sell that one for like $600 and then just buy one direct from Dell and have them install it.

 

I live in Canada and I think it's hard for them to get a 580m to install here. Some agents told me it would cost upwards of $2000, which is insane. That's almost as much as my entire laptop!

 

A quick eBay search brings up plenty for $600-$800. Sell the one you have right now (probably for $600-$800) and buy one off eBay that is specifically a Dell version.

dell 580m | eBay

 

I responded to your pm, but I was also wondering: it seems from the eBay link you posted that the difference between the 580m I have and the other one there is that mine came with a black backplate and this one comes with a grey metal one with a flap. My 460m's backplate looks identical. Can I and Should I remove the 460m's backplate and use it on the 580m? Just to re-iterate what I said in my pm, it doesn't seem to be worth it much because Dell will only cover cards bought through them, right? Even if this one is a "Dell" card

 

I don't think you can remove the backplate, you should probably just put a thick thermal pad where the backplate should be on the 580m.

The suggestion for the Dell card was if you find some concrete evidence (like you try again it and kills the mobo again) that your card hurts the system. Then you could just get a Dell card that you know for sure will work. Really though, if it worked once then it wasn't what killed the board, if it was gonna kill it then it would have done it at the first power on the first time it was installed.

 

I think the backplate can and should be removed though. By that, I am referring to the x shaped piece of metal that goes onto the card with the 4 screws.That was what I did when I originally got it to work. If I were to use the backplate that came with the 580m, I would have to take out the 4 screws on the heatsink and use the ones that came with the 580m, as they are not the same. The Dell tech was also going to use the 460m backplate, but when he tried screwing the card onto the motherboard, he broke a screw off the 460m backplate. So I think I am supposed to use the 460m's backplate. (I have a new card and backplate, so that isnt a problem)

Also, the Dell 580m that you linked me to on ebay has the same grey backplate with the metal flap that my 460m has, so I think I should use it. Of course, it would be easier to just buy that card you linked me to because it already has the grey backplate on it.

Here is a link to the 580m I bought. Look at the difference between backplates between this one and the one you linked me to:
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

 

I don't know bro, the backplates on the Dell cards don't look like they come off. Not to mention the little flap you are talking about is just a heat shield, here you can see a Dell 580m without the shield Alienware nVidia Geforce 2GB GTX580M DP/N - 3MF8R | eBay

That Dell card looks just like yours with a crappier heat sink mount (the Dell mount is clearly cheaper and lower quality).

I feel like you should be able to just use a thermal pad over both sets of memory chips on the bottom and then mount the heat sink to the top and be just fine. The little metal flap just doesn't seem important to me, and you don't want to mess up your 460m trying to get the mount off.

EDIT: A related thread in the M18x forum. http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/641241-gpu-sent-dell-no-cross-back.html

Short version, trying to remove the braces = bent unusable braces.

 

Well like I said originally, I removed the 460m backplate (with the metal flap) and placed it on the 580m when I originally did it and all went fine. The Dell technician even swapped the 460m backplate again and it only broke when he tried to force the 580m backplate screws into the 460m backplate. After getting a new backplate, I saw him place it and take it off several times when we tried figuring out what the problem was that my computer wasn't detecting a card. I feel fairly confident that I can replace the 460m backplate on the 580m when I get my laptop back from repair. The card you linked me to in your earlier post (the Dell card on ebay) has same backplate as my 460m so I feel that should be the one on my 580m. Does anyone else have some input?

 

580m might have a different x-plate but I haven't heard of any comparability issues before. I think the x-plate should be the same size on all the dell cards for this laptop. My 6990m had the same x-plate my 460m has, so you should be able to just pop that 460m one on very carefully and be just fine.