M17x DPC Latency

So,

I've been reading about these three issues a lot on the forums lately. I've done several tests as well as several formats and installs. So far, I've encountered a very mild stutter with the very basic install of Windows 7 Ultimate 64 installed with stock drivers as well as Batboy's. I've also encountered lock ups, granted these have been far between, I've still had them. Most of them occurred on the normal desktop, loading up Firefox, scrolling down a website on Firefox, starting Steam, etc., one upon starting CoD MW 2 before I even clicked on anything it locked up. Sometimes I have a single program hang, then start working again after a few minutes. Windows will complain to me if I click on the window that it isn't responding, but normally I let it continue what it's doing.

I've taken logs of all my temperatures and some screen shots of the DPC latency spikes (shame I can't log that), and a majority of my issues seem to be occurring on the simple desktop, which IMO makes sense as I see my GTX280M's clock speeds change the most while on the desktop, while in game they tend to stay on full load. The minor stutter I encounter is definitely directly related to this issue as well, because my sound will stutter if I have something running in the background and I'll notice the slight jump of my mouse if I was moving it. I check the logs and the frequency certainly changed when I had the issue.
*ADDED* -- The issue does still remain after using PowerMizer, as it only modifies my primary card and my secondary card remains untouched, possibly related again to my FurMark tests mentioned below.

Looking at the posts throughout these forums, nothing I've come across has worked, following links to several other websites and wandering through www.sevenforums.com, nothing. I've modified the "Available Memory" to 3990, installed sound/video drivers, uninstalled sound/video drivers, used Windows default sound drivers, nothing has stopped the DPC latency or the mild stutter.

Other steps I've taken have been to disable my 9400 through the BIOS, after-all, that could be it right? So I disabled integrated graphics and of course Hybrid SLI, first I tried simply turning of Hybrid SLI, no change, then both, again, no change, minus my screen doesn't blink black a few times after boot up.

That said, I pressed on, I did more benchmarks. In 3dMark Vantage I achieve around 8k on 186.64 (stock drivers) and 10k on Batboy's 186.82. Processor wise I'm not going to post those stats because I haven't run a proper test of it. Next I loaded up FurMark 1.7.0 and I noticed something very peculiar, something I had only just a few minutes earlier read about in a post on the Dell Community forums regarding a UK user's unfortunate experience with his M17x. The issue is that while running a Stability Test in FurMark, first with Hybrid SLI enabled, I noticed the temperature of only one card increasing, capping at 64~65 degrees, while the second card I have started at the same temperate of 37 degrees and only decreased as the temperature increased on the first card, down to 33 degrees. What this looks like to me is that the full load of FurMark was being placed on my first card, so how in the world do I fix that!?

I'm at a loss, tomorrow (Monday), I plan on contacting Dell and hopefully speaking to a knowledgeable tech who speaks English well enough to understand that I've done my homework, now I want the answers.

Anyone else here have any ideas? I honestly believe all of these issues are related. Just about everything matches the Video Card handling and the changes that are made to them throughout usage.

Also, I'd like to point out I have run tests with PhysX enabled and disabled, there is no 3d Stereoscopic Vision on my system, and I have tried disabling wifi, bluetooth, sound and zero change in average DPC history.

Aedaric


----------------------------

Updated note from AW MOD:

The DPC Latency issue on the M17xR1 NV GPUs appears to be resolved. NVIDIA eliminated the issue which apparently was being caused by the NV Display Driver. ManuelG of NVIDIA posted the following over @ their forum,

Dell also released BIOS A03 which needs to be applied with the NV Beta driver to resolve the latency issue.

John-B of Dell, posted an update with the process to follow in order to correct the DPC issue. Please see the linked post for details.

M17x BIOS A03:
http://support.dell.com/support/dow...typeid=-1&dateid=-1&formatid=-1&fileid=372828

M17x BIOS A03 discussion thread is HERE:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=449010

M17x NV Beta GPU Driver:
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/format.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R266107

M17x NV Beta GPU Driver discussion thread HERE:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=475893


Additional Links:

Link to the original DPC Latency thread is HERE:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=408300

M17x DPC/ISR Tracing - Microsoft Windows Driver Kit style - Thanks to Stamatisx
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=461247
----------------------------

 

nice. I will watch more of your progress as you do more testing. I will try to help as best as I can as well.

 

So here's a small update, I'm a bit OCD when it comes to having a clean area, so I was cleaning the keyboard on my laptop with the DPC reader running, and bam, immediately the latency jumped from the yellow range of 3500 to around 4500~6000, and the usual spikes upwards of 16k from the PowerMizer clock modifying.

 

Forgot to post the screenshot.

Also, could a moderator please change the naming of this post to "M17x DPC Latency, Stuttering, and Lock Ups"?

Thank You,

Aedaric

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=408300

Apparently you haven't seen this thread yet...

 

Err... What do you mean by saying "lock up"? Sorry for noob question.

 

Lord Zath -- Not sure if you didn't read my post, or perhaps I didn't specify clearly enough. Yes, I have read that post and inside that post they deal solely with DPC Latency and it's affects upon sound. However, in my post I have stated that I believe that the three seperate posts regrading the things inside my title are all related. Considering it's all hand in hand in regards to the Powermizer and clock adjustments in the graphics cards.

In conclusion, yes, I've read that forum, as well as probably 15 ones you haven't.


SillyHoney -- I have a few issues, a lock up is when the system completely hangs, no mouse response, numlock doesn't turn off or respond, nothing, so the only way to get past it is to hold the power button down for 5 seconds until it shuts down hard. Another issue is exactly related to DPC Latency and the sound issues that follow it -- when the video cards adjust their core clock speeds to either reduce power or increase power, my mouse will freeze for a split second then jump to where it is suppose to be with where the movement of my hand is.


Aedaric

 

try 186.24. I find that to be an ok driver compared 186.82.

 

Posted on the M17x and DPC Latency post as well, but it's an update to mine.

So, I am running my laptop and desktop side by side right now, I had just started the download for the new Windows Defender Definition and I believe it finished downloading and started to install it, right at that moment I believe is when my Internet Explorer (the app I was right then using) froze, gave me the not responding issue, and my latency spiked to 46k. This is solely on the 9400 as I believe my system started in the "I have no wall plug" mode, so it was fine in that respect because it gave me a chance to check out the DPC latency on the integrated card, that said, I am still in my high performance power setting because it is in fact plugged in, just a moment after the BIOS screen passed. After the definition installed IE started working again.

Aedaric

 

I know you've done a lot of research already, so you may have come across this one, but the stuttering problem seems to be much bigger than just that observed in the M17x. It seems like it spans much of Dell's entire laptop line.

Here's a recent thread that details the same issues in the Studio 1737, but note that there's a Dell rep who is responding directly to user concerns. According to the rep, the emphasis is on a bios fix, but it is taking Dell longer than anticipated to conjure one up. The original estimate was a fix back in August, but here it is November and Dell owners continue to wait.

Interesting tidbit from the Dell rep about their listening to customer feedback:

" UPDATING:

The BIOS is going to X-Rev on Tuesday [Nov 17, 2009!]. That means the development team is confident enough in it to have it deployed to a wider testing group. This is one of the latter stages a BIOS or driver goes through before web posting. That does not mean we have a firm ETA. It could mean with more eyes testing, problems which cause it to fail out of testing, if they exist, are more likely to be caught. That would put us back at square 1 + a few steps. Initial tests indicate marked improvement in DPC latency.

I want to mention one other thing that illustrates how we are trying our best to listen. We are using DPC Latency Checker as an approved testing tool. We never used it before, and are using it now based on your input. In my experience, this is a really big deal. I have never seen our development teams latch on so fluidly to customer issue replication methodology ever before in my 6+ years at Dell. So, thanks to you all for your input."

Good on them!

Unfortunately, whatever fix they come up with will be tested on the 1737 first before any other platform, meaning M17x owners will have to wait that much longer.

 

Wow, thanks for that update from the Dell Rep, I hadn't actually seen it through the Studio 1737, though I did know some Studio systems were having issues with it, and that one system had already received a BIOS update fixing the problem. It's a bit upsetting to me however that our $3000+ machines are not getting the same type of response from our "Elite" Alienware tech support. I've called multiple times over the past few days and none of them had any real idea what I was talking about. One rep told me it was appearing to be a hardware design causing my issues and was sorry he couldn't do anything to help.

Aedaric

 

Don't know if you guys saw but I did post about the M17x in that thread. I'll post in the DPC latency thread if there's any updates from the dell rep...

 

Nope, didn't see it, but that thread has grown pretty long now. That Dell guy should've seen your post and given M17x users top of the line priority on any future fixes!

 

Maybe we should start our own thread there, seems its best way to get their attention....

 

im subscribing to this thread since my week old m17x locks up more than a geriatric old knee

 

mine locks up also - so far as programs not responding. i can move the mouse and switch to any non responding program. after 2-3 min everything goes back to normal though.

i'm getting my mobo and ram replaced and already had the hard drive replaced. this post really makes me thing it won't make any difference.

 

Yea, I'm not sure what exactly causes the issues, but AW and Dell know of the issue at least. My wonder is if they aren't able to fix it, are they going to replace my laptop with one that works properly? I doubt it.

Also, I did figure out my issue regarding my second card not working in FurMark, it was a simple SLI Profile needing to be turned on.

Aedaric

 

bump
bump

 

so far, i've had so many forced restarts from unresponsiveness that things have gotten very bad with my os.

i've contacted dell and since nearly everything has been replaced and i still have the issue they're sending me a replacement laptop.

i think i may have an good guess that it's possibly a failing video card screwing with the system. recently starting games up in full screen would sometimes give me a black screen, but now i get it every single time. no drivers or fresh installs fix it. i can play in windowed mode, but full screen does not work in 4 different games. not only that but on one restart i got no desktop displayed, but the mouse was there. i disabled the 260's and everything was fine, then re-enabled them and got the black screen with the mouse again. the next day everything was fine (except for the full screen gaming issue).

right now it's just sitting around collecting dust until my replacement arrives. good thing i've got no interest financing or i'd be pissed paying $40 a month in interest on a machine i've barely got to really use for a week. i've had it about a month and a half now.

 

In the thread at Dell Community forum, http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/11/18/dell-dpc-latency-and-you.aspx,
a new update was posted today:

Update, 11/25: I just received a report from our engineering teams that the problem has been reproduced and has been narrowed down to two possible root causes. I should have more news for you next week!

 

sweetness. Now.. just fix it. And update dang windows 7 drivers with something proper

 

Does anyone see this happening with the m15x also? The sound stuttering and popping is driving me insane, and I've only had my m15x for a week!

 

yep that's pretty bad issue, mine get up to 130,000 micro-s/sec, too.

It does not only freeze your sound, but also your regular opration, like mouse movement, video, etc.

 

so, anyone concerning this, again from this URL, http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/11/18/dell-dpc-latency-and-you.aspx
They're testing the new BIOS, great.

 

I was having the same problems on my three week old M17x. Persistent stuttering. Frequent 2 to 3 minute (or longer) freezes people have mentioned. Sometimes logoff would take 3 minutes, and bootup longer than that. I logged an average of 25 NVSTOR64 errors a day.
Somehow the problems have now mostly ceased - went away. No stuttering or freezes since yesterday. Just did a 35 second boot up. This thing is running much better. I don't know exactly what I did. I guess I tried everything. Hope it lasts.
Saw immediate logoff and boot improvement when I implemented Gizmo's wireless recommendations: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5543296 Marked wireless improvement with Dell 5.60.18.8 driver. Why that should improve what I thought was a disk issue I don't know.
Did PhysX update to v9.09.1112.
Changed waittokill from 12000 to 120 in hkeylocalmachine > system > currentcontrolset > control.
Did Synaptics Touchpad update to v14.0.12.0.
Using NVidia graphics drive 195.62.
Cleaned out a lot of startup crap, per http://m17x.blogspot.com/2009/11/revisiting-stuttering-issue-on-m17x.html.
Ran CCleaner.
Anyway, running much better for now.

 

Guys,

I'm almost ill after my call this evening with Alienware...

Spoke with a tech this afternoon attempting to see what could be done to address the latency/stuttering issue. He provided me with a 14 step sheet to work through and told me if it didn't resolve the issue to call back.

Well... I called back about 5 hours later and got another tech.

The tech I spoke with actually conferenced in an engineer and we both learned some very bad news... According to him, as of today all Alienware M17x nvidia chipset based motherboards are officially defective. There is nothing they can do to completely eliminate the issue.

Apparently they are working on a new Intel based motherboard revision but it will be some time before it is ready for us.

I for one am not going to sit by and have my $5300+ notebook 'gutted' for a motherboard replacement when it was defective goods to begin with that was never tested.

I just finished filing a request with the Critical Issues department and am now waiting for them to get in touch with me.

Unless Dellianware takes this piece of junk back and does a proper replacement I, as well as my company (a large publisher), won't ever buy anything from them ever again.

My day now officially sucks!

 

thank god Nvidia finally is saying they screwed up ... wish i would of kept mine and said it stuttered


The 9400 was never meant for a highend chipset

IE look at the macbooks issues VS the M17x with dual card

or look at the Sager 9850 ... the 9400 is not the chipset they should of used. It was defective from day one

 

so can we get these switched for an M17x-R2 ver now ????

 

you should be able to in the future. I would wait a little bit because they will need to send a memo out and set a procedure for it ETC...

so you can try calling but since its just happening it prolly wont be easy

 

The question is though, are they going to replace it with the PM55 board and give us all i7 processors or design a pm45 chipset that has SLI enabled on it? Or just give us all PM45 AND 4870s?

 

I was hoping for a fix, I did not like the idea of running 4870s on the 9400m. Plus, if notebookcheck says 280m SLI is better than 4870xf then I believe them.

Apart from the stuttering issues, this thing is a champ. I have a hard time believing that this can not be fixed with software.

This might explain why they wanted to replace my mobo and video cards. I am away next week and apparently Dell has a rule about not having a tech sit on parts for more than 4 biz days so all the replacement bits will be shipped back before anyone gets a chance to install them. And then I have Mass Effect 2 to finish without interruption. I would prefer a fix that involves a 10 minute d/l and install.

I can see Dell/Nvidia swapping everyones mobos, cpus and video cards. We'll get a correct mobo (using who knows what chipset).

 

Hurrah! Hopefully that this isn't a random case and Dell follows through with the engineer's advice! thanks for spending the time on the phone to get an answer... make suire you note down the names of the people you talked to!
It's a shame also, the reason I bought the M17x was to get into some parallel CUDA programming for data analysis, and so far NVIDIA has a better set up for that. If the refresh doesn't have the NVIDA i'll probably have to switch to OpenCL. Oh well...

 

I will wait for the 5870 cards to be released before requesting a replacement

 

I bought mine at best buy.

if Dell can replace the motherboard, could I have my m17x replaced too?

I still have 1 year warranty with Dell/Alienware like everyone esle.

does anyone know?
thank you,

 

Don't expect to have a choice. They will honor their contract with you in the most cost-effective way possible. It's likely the ad-hoc 4870 swaps are over.

It also suggest the 4870 'cure' is BS. A mobo swap is way more expensive than video cards - 3-4 hours of labour on top of parts. If a couple of MXM modules could cure the problem they would do that instead.

 

you will not hve a choice and you will prolly get the refresh

Dell won't redesign that system for a couple thousand people

a refresh would be a cheaper route and my lucky turd goes to that one

 

You answered your own question. You still have warranty, why would they not honor it?

 

We have a gentleman's wager then - no chance we all get new systems. We'll get some frankenhybrid mobo. We'll all be happy too.

 

because best buy sucks. I wish I would have bought it through Dell instead.

but thanks,

at least I can hope for it too

 

Can you confirm this information by posting on John B's blog over at Dell? That way we can get some solid feedback from Dell regarding what you've posted: http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/12/30/19591948.aspx

Thanks.

 

within 14 days Best Buy will refund money, after that you are in the hands of AW - and those are good hands.

you'll get a fix

 

I agree with lewdvig on this. Dell has always stepped up to the plate when there is a confirmed issue requiring a replacement/exchange/refund.

Also, as Joker posted on the previous page, its best to wait for an official confirmation on Denver's post concering the tech/engineer stating the board is defective. Its fine to discuss, but until Dell officially states this as fact, its only a 'discussion'.

 

Wow, some news here.... Hmmm, if it's true,...Screwed up again!
I'm soooo tired of those phone calls!
Defective mobo...suks...

 

I'm in the same boat but this time at least mines looks like this is this okay or should I still cry?
After 2-3 tech calls and over 5 hours on the phone...with remote acess through AW...did it fixed it?

 

Yeah, sure does. My wife just complained of all the time I have spent trying to get my computer to work properly It ssems it was in vain... maybe. Crossed fingers for the recall/replacement.

 

AlienWare's engineer statement "NVIDIA mobo is officially defective" => 4870 cure is BS => I'm officially confused

Audio stuttering will likely be the nominee for mystery of the decade.

 

This is helluva stuttering. Those huge spikes are clearly audible and might make some games freeze. Don't stop at it, it's not fixed! This is crazy....

 

Dunno if the 4870 cure is BS, but I've been playing music, gaming and benching for the entire day today and not a single spike over 5k (this is not stuttering and isn't audible).

The only thing that still confuses me is the "defective mobo" part.... this is really bad...
Let's camp together....

 

What does this imply for the M17x-R2? Doesn't it already have an Intel based motherboard? Are the R2's safe from these Nvidia chipset problems?

 

There's no trace of nVidia in the R2.