M17x DPC Latency

Guys,

Alienware is making an effort to help us or they won't be doing card swaps, attempting motherboard replacements, issuing some refunds, etc.

We need to keep in mind that we are not the only ones experiencing issues. Sager and all of the Clevo systems that use the same chipset are also fighting this issue.

I think Dell is banging on the right door by going after nVidia. But you have to look how long it takes nVidia to cough up anything - just look at their driver releases. This isn't going to be an overnight fix when they can't even produce driver updates on a monthly basis.

These notebook manufacturers aren't going to sit by and get their reputations destroyed by a third-party. Clevo has also been pursuing them for about a month as well. If nVidia doesn't come up with something soon you can be almost assured that they will face a firestore of legal action for the various OEMs and ODMs who are taking the heat from their customers.

My guess is that it won't be long before either they come up with something or Dell will intervene on our behalf. I imagine there are defined time limits in their contracts with nVidia that would light some fires. We really need to be patient and let the Dell folks help us.

 

Yes, I agree with you. Nvidia is completely responsible but Dell has some responsability in not testing thoughrouly their new PC.

What should have been an amazing laptop and enjoyement has become frustration, stress, hours and days of useless phone calls and holds by Dell reps.

Dell, Sager, Clevo and everyone else using that chipset should have at least 4 months ago started to pursue Nvidia and threaten of legal actions to protect their customers.

Hope some resolution gets here soon.

In the meantime, I suggest letting Engadgment, Tom's Hardware and The Inquirer know of the issue and let them write arcticles on what's happening.

 

if dell testing before the m17x would not have this problem
where this quality control?
Dell should STOP selling these m17x whit nvidia the problem is fixed! I
only interested in money, and the proof is that it continues to sell. m17x
knowing that they are defective.

sager and compaq no cost 4500 euros

I bought dell for 11 years for me and my business in Mexico and Spain
and their quality plummeted' been through i many problems with dell, but this is the last thing
in Spain I only say they can not do anything
I have given orders in my buisness to not buy anything dell
dell ignoring me why they buy this m17x particular name (big mistake)
is going to be surprised when the sales reps know companies are and not buying more
no play more
sorry 4 my inglish

 

Dell/Alienware are in big trouble with the R1 and R2.. I hope that after all of this is over they learn their lesson and fully test their products before wasting months of the customers time on fixes that take forever to come if they even come at all. What's going on here with the R1 and R2 is unacceptable, and I just really hope for their sake and ours they learn something from this.

 

Greetings:

May I ask a moment of your time? Can you post here (or PM me) and let me know your source for the Clevo info? I ask because I just got a NP9850 and am having serious nvstor64 issues (CRC errors, latency, intensive disk I/O has errors).

If there is documented info regarding the MCP79/730i chipset problems I may pursue another avenue with this, thanks!!!

 

There might be a chance that the MCP79 by itself is ok, but in combination with powerful GPUs has some power related issues - latency/stuttering/lockups. I don't think we can pinpoint the absolute truth here. Right now the entire line of MAC laptops (as well as Dell/HP and Sony) have that chipset and I really hope the days of faulty chipsets are over,...really hope.

 

my friend's macbook with the same mcp79 mobo has been fine. but it doesnt have a discrete so its permanently running on the 9400 and he has no issues except i think heat issues. whenever he plays demanding(for his card) games like l4d2 or nba2k10 for too long, his computer will automatically just turn off suddenly.

 

one more finding here.

look at the dpc latency while scrolling a pdf file pages. yes i have ATIs

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ng75ow.jpg

people with ATIs its up to you to test too

 

mine on idle looks like the one you just posted. when doing stuff like web surfing or gaming or listening to music, the spikes are similar to the ones of having gtx 280s and bios a02 just that the red spikes are usually below 10k around 6k.

for my case,the tech people are going to put forward my request for a r2 replacement to the 'related department'. i wonder which department is that. dont the tech support people authorize replacements themselves?

 

ruby you asked that from the US Dell? i have seen 16K spikes in idle among the green ones and of course the huge 999000 spikes and when those spikes occur the system is like its going to explode.

 

All Alienware laptops from Dell are broken and untested?

M17x R1 lots of issue, stuttering,DPC latency and lockups with W7, minor issues with Vista.
M17x R2 very stuttering, bad Flickering issues and CPU throttling
M15x very bad throttling and stuttering.
M11x ???????

I just realized that.... Dell need to get a grip man, this is way getting out of hand.....
Other companies have dealt with their defects in a much better way than this, clearly a software update will NOT fix issues like that.

 

M17X R2 has stuttering-dpc latency? i thought it has only the issues with the flickering when overclocked..

 

No latency problem as far as i know. But games flickers like crazy with the two top CPUs at stock speed. And yes it throttles like the M15x...
It other words, you cant game on these if you have the high end CPUs.

Maybe Dell will get it right on the R6 or R7....or maybe R19?

 

well due to the world economic crysis (thanks banks for it) they may have fired many people and quality assurance is only a myth now on. same for nvidia. both just continue to gain money. thats the deal. who cares about you really.

and to be honest if they dont have enough people to quality test their machines when they are released i wonder if they have people dedicated on fixing the issues when they appear...

 

Apple just announced that they offer buyback for all the broken iMacs that got affected by the yellow tint screen issue.

Sony extended the warranty to all laptops affected by the defected Nvidia cards to 3 years global warranty.

Asus just actually fixed the BSoD problem that was affecting their G51 laptops.

And many more. On the other hand what is Dell doing? the biggest PC manufacturer in the world?
If we are waiting for Nvidia to fix their chipset or their powermizer tech. that will take months and perhaps will never really get fixed.

 

no, im from singapore. the tech handling my case is based in penang(malaysia).

 

gpilot,

Your PM capability seems to be turned off...

For information on the Clevo side of the issue, visit this thread on the Kobalt Computer website. Kobalt is a UK-based reseller of Clevo-ODMd systems:

http://www.kobaltcomputers.co.uk/fo...-SLI-Audio-and-Hotkey-driver-available/page10

Start on page 10 and read-on... They and Clevo began to escalate the issue with nVidia at the first of January... almost at the exact same time Dell began pounding on their doors as well.

 

There's more to that list, friend. . .

SXPS 1645.
XPS M1730 (Which was absolutely abandoned in light of the M17x. Had they implement the fan control or better thermal table in BIOS, the machine failure rates would've gone down.)
XPS M1530

And on the subject of Q&A. . . well, folks, you guys are the Q&A! And the real cool part, you pay them to be in the position, and your Q&A comes free of charge. LAWL! It's hilarious. Bad, but hilarious. Always waiting for the next machine that'll be problem free, but it'll have problems. Looking at the bigger picture, that is exactly what has happened across the last three generation of machines. We're the Q&A/DEMO test audience, and that seems to be our permanent position.

 

desktop guys and buy the parts one by one being sure it works properly or replacing the part if it doesnt. At least you know everything on it is your choice and the brand you select it to be. Thus more cheaper parts with much better performance and fully upgradable without having to change the machine as a whole. desktops are the only machines that can handle the needs of a gamer or a professional. there is nothing we can do in a notebook. Notebooks are only the best way for companies to gain money even if they are covered by quarantees.

 

Quite a strange viewpoint coming from someone who spent a lot of money and has most likely enjoyed a lot of time with their laptop. You're right in that desktops are more flexible in terms of configs and customisations but that's no reason to flip so much and go against high end laptops which are predominantly amazing. They're perfectly capable (in full working order) of handling professional and gaming tasks.

 

Yes, but he isn't bashing the laptop concept. If someone really did it right, things would be great. Unfortunately, industry trends and politics don't allow for the right level of support and solutions, which is what he's condemning.

In recent years, Dell have given up on machines that had inherent flaws. I don't need to list those seeing it would be an act, way past that of flogging a dead horse.

I am pro-laptop. My current M17x is problem free, which is really a good scenario. However, majority of the people are jumping from one boat of issues to another, and at the same time, the one and only thing Dell is doing 'on time', is releasing newer machines with their own string of issues.

 

Eh? He said "desktops are the only machines that can handle the needs of a gamer or a professional. there is nothing we can do in a notebook"... That's pretty clearly 'bashing the laptop concept' and wrong. I've not used the M17X for anything I'd class as profressional but it's definately top notch in terms of gaming even though I'm on dual 260s and a dual core.

Anyways on a lighter note, I now occasionally have double 60k+ spikes instead of that boring single bar all the time! That's progress.

 

Actually it was raised at the end of November, not January, I was one of the guys who raised it, and was the guy who started that thread.
If you read page 1, on the 21st I commented my machine was back with the guys who were looking to see whether there was anything they could do about the stuttering issue, the issue was raised with Nvidia and Clevo less than a week later.
It was also brought up in the M980NU thread over in the Clevo subforum at a similar point in time.

Hell, my stutter reduction guide was posted 2 weeks into December, and that was long after the issue was initially reported.

 

Oh yeah, he did say that. . . I took it with a grain of salt.

I treat these kind of contentions as a knee-jerk reaction. It was his reply to my post about quality of the products, which diminish expectations and experience. Majority of the people normally like retreating to the 'desktops are the true solution' argument when other complications hamper their otherwise decent laptop experience. Even I end up saying similar things from time to time, but that's more a result of frustration over other problems with the machine. His notebook has given him quite a bit of grief, so his gut-reaction to the idea isn't going to be as objective as one would expect. Fact is that the M17x is a great concept, but not properly seen through in certain respects.

Don't get me wrong. I actually agree with you on the potential of the M17x. Hell, I still like my M1730, which runs almost every application in question. Dual cores and 260s are great. My M1730 almost broke 15k at stock with a pair of 9800m GTX cards and a very had HDD setup. And that's a feeble synthetic benchmark. With a mild overclock, I still saw a lot of future potential in the cards and the machine, so an M17x with dual core and dual 260s is plenty of power. We still have to get games that properly take advantage of the majority of power that comes with such hardware.

 

when i said we cant do anything with notebooks i meant the issues part not their capabilities and as you said if i thought an alienware box (because its a box) couldnt handle my needs i wouldnt buy it. But suprisingly enough the notebook is faulty. what can i do now? upgrade option like bying intel motherboard are not supported by Dell except if you find a reseller buying and selling Dell parts. But i forgot you have to buy new fans too and whatever else to fit the chassis. Finally the price of a new machine R2 R3 and so on. On a desktop except the fact that the issues are rare or nowhere to be found you just change this part which is in quarantee and go. I dont have to mention that with this price you get a machine with 2 times the M17X capabilities. But again i forgot you pay twice because they are high end and high technology is made so small. whatever the costs are so low that you cant imagine. I dont have to mention how much percent profit they have.


The fact that i spent so much money for a faulty box makes me more against notebook now on regarding that the series of faulty notebooks continue for years, and i could say that high end notebooks are those affected more if you agree with me. Instead of fixing their issues they continue to sell them . What else should i say?

I really believed Alienware would be a perfect notebook mainly because of tis price. If such a notebook has issues that even more appear for ages then what should i expect next? my next one will be a desktop for sure and not a ready one. I will spend time to select each part after good searching and i will build it myself. Thanks my netbook for its reliability but this is not high end eh? lool

dont misunderstand my sayings, it takes a few minutes to understand what i am saying.

 

Denver:

I emailed the mods about my PM. Can't find the option on the USer CP to enable it, maybe new members can't use PM for a while.

I set up a throwaway email addy, "greg9850ATborg1DOTcom" can you forward your contact info As I just got this machine (should not have dismissed some of the feedback in the forums) I may be able to return it if this issue is really a problem with the MCP79 hardware and Win7. That is why I need solid info....if you can share more.

Saw the Kobalt thread...hmmm.interesting

Thanks!

 

I have given up and plan to resume the practice of slamming Dell every chance I get.

 

Are they going to change your video cards to the Ati's?

 

John-B said: You guys deserve a fix ASAP.

I say: We deserve full refund ASAP

People dont stuck with the ATIs. the real issue is the motherboard.

 

We know the issue is the motherboard. The problem is they don't have a real MB replacement for the R1 version that would completely solve the problem.

Nvidia really screwed up.

 

Fourth attempt failed. Seriously, they have sent the cards out to the wrong name/address four times. Technically one time I wasn't around (I told them I was away for the week - parts shipped that monday).

The audio stutter is a such small deal. In Stealth I have no issues. In games I have rare issues (that could be anything).

But it has made me hate this PC and Dell. I have a disproportionate amount of anger given how little I care about audio playback with both cards enabled.

 

the real issue is the motherboard dell want to hide the problem with another bios

 

yea im with him.. if there is any way i can get a full refund now instead of getting replacement after replacement(this m17x was actually a replacement for my xps1730 cos they couldnt give me a full refund and i still paid 1200 for the qx9300) i definitely will go for a desktop. for the price of this laptop, 7000SGD not including warranty, i could get a i7 975 with 2 5970s and 12gb 1600 ram + all the other essential stuff like power supply,fans and heatsinks,thermal paste and still have about 2k spare!


the only reason i bought a high end gaming laptop was because i wanted to do gaming in campus because i had stupid 4-5 hour breaks at least 2 times a week and nothing to do at all but with these 2 laptops(xps 1730 and m17x) having so much problems, i actually spend my 4-5 hour breaks CALLING DELL than actually doing any gaming.

 

OK, i just got off the phone with alienware tech support. The guy spent 2 hrs, disabling my video adapters reinstalling drivers and things of that sort only to tell me that he is being told by his level 2 that dell is going to release a BIOS fix within the next month. So hopefully this will be resolved with A04. I do believe that it is an issue that can be resolved with a BIOS fix, its just weather or not they are going to take the time to right this wrong. Everyone pray to whatever god you honor.

 

So now they are saying sometime this month for an update? Two weeks ago it was supposed to be "last" week. I am SO tired of this crap...

 

Just found another interesting issue. My 4870s sometimes start heating up without any reason the clocks stay at their max (any ringing bells?). I reflashed the BIOS but it didn't help. Worse yet the issue happens under both w7 and linux and that makes me even more puzzled.

 

faulty cards? maybe the driver issue. mine still downclock properly all the time.

the power management on these ati cards seem better than the nvidia ones. they downclock almost instantly when out of a game compared to nvidia ones which take at least 20 seconds

 

unless its posted on the dell blog, it isnt real .thats. what i think.

almost a month ago some people were told right after the a03 bios update that a new fix would come out in 2 weeks.

 

Agreed Ruby. Everyone should be taking reports from techs on a fix ETA with a grain of salt. Unless its posted - pfft.

 

everytime i'm on the phone with dell they keep on saying "wait a week. they are testing something and it will come out to fix the issue." jokes.

 

im glad mine is requesting an r2 replacement for me . just that im asking them to hang on because of the r2 issues. no sense getting another problematic laptop.

 

Did you sell your R1 Don, how come it's not in your sig anymore? and did switching to the ATI cards help your latency any?

 

i have this issue since i got my ATIs. Bios keeps loading with fans at full speeds and they remain like that. But even more strange this doesnt happen always.

 

ive only noticed that my middle fan goes to max sometimes when i boot the computer. like just after the bios check(alienhead at start), the fan will max out at the boot selection screen(i have 2 oses). just the middle fan though, not the gpu fans

some other guy has this issue as well here http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=458725

not sure if its the same issue.

 

Someone wrote somewhere here in the forum that Dell is on Valve time. I think he was more than right...

 

No solution in sight. Problem is, the issues with the m17x is well known- so trying to sell it might be hard. And to be honest, it wouldnt feel good to hand over this to someone else, unbeknown to these problems.
We have to figure out other uses for our bricked laptops

I hope Dell call me today and give me some info, i will press for a refund until i die

 

This might be something I just missed, but is there any difference in these issues using either of the two different SATA bios settings (Native/Legacy AHCI)? I only ask because I turned on the native setting a little bit ago and once everything calmed down, i have been sitting between 70~95 while surfing (on the 9400). On the Legacy setting, it was a larger range, 55~300 while surfing. Sure things change while watching video or playing music, but I thought it maybe noteworthy.

On a side note, tomorrow or Saturday I will be calling Dell and seeing what my options are in either having this thing repaired (again) or having it replaced. At this point, I no longer have a need for this beastly brick.

 

i am sure that anyone who is going to buy this notebook will make a search. no noob buys such an expensive machine without searching. so he will have a good sight in here.

 

Unfortunately a lot of people seem to read the problems and then think that they'll be fixed by the time their laptop shows up. I've told two or three people now not to buy it unless they absolutely must have it now. The result? They buy it. *sigh*. As long as consumers swallow the company lines whole, this crap will continue.

 

Okay. Now let me ask you this, with all candid honesty: Do we not take any responsibility in this trend?

What am I getting at? Well, I cannot spare pennies for the amount of times I was hearing about M17x being the answer to everything by all of us who got the unit, only to get a rude awakening at a later stage. We all played that mantra. Now was it the hype/honeymoon period? Because whatever it may have been, does not change the fact that many of us outright endorsed this machine not so long ago.

I am just saying, sometimes, I prefer to put myself in the critical spotlight, because I may have encouraged certain individuals to invest in this machine, simply because I was having a good experience with my own system at the given time.

F.Y.I.: I'm currently satisfied with my system, but most others are not satisfied. The same people that were hailing this as the gold standard.