M17x DPC Latency

In other words, we early buyers are literally being taken advantage of by Dell and all we get is a lousy cap, not even the T-shirt...;-) Oh, and a sticker.

All those buyers bought it for 3K+, (thousands of them). They are repairing/replacing just a tiny % of those. Winsauce for Dell. That's a way to make profits.

Oh well, can't say I didn't see all this coming, been using Dell laptops for years now, and not 1 of them actually worked for more than a few months.
Time to go get a refund and look for another manufacturer.

 

The matter concerns issue investigation with the end goal being a resolution for customers worldwide. The reason we are focusing on US customers is based solely on the practicality and geograpy.

Nothing to do with those matters. We leave legal matters to our attorneys, and they definitely do not use forum PM's to contact people.

 

So I just got of the phone with Bill, very nice guy, they are looking for a few u.s. based customers to be able to send the wolf of the alienware engineers (pulp fiction reference) to our homes to look at some of our laptops. I have no problem with this if it helps our all powerful laptops truly become the all powerful system we all know it can be. will let you know more when I find out more.

 

lol yeah this fix is not a fix at all. Was really excited when I saw the link then nothing

 

To follow along with claxdog and some of my earlier posts about PM's and how seriously we are taking this situation, I have a request. We have engineerings in Miami and Austin ready to do some site visits. It looks like we have Florida covered between claxdog and one more customer who just PM'd me. If there are any customers in Dallas, Austin, Houston, San Antonio or any other place within driving distance of Austin, please get with me in PM.

I want to point out that this are extrodinary measures, and I just want to make sure everyone understands this is not something that we would be doing for every case. The customer is our top priority here, and Alienware customers are among the most important for obvious reasons.

 

Dell-Bill_B,

Why are you doing this to begin with?
You dont need to wast your time or our time to pin point the exact problem with this laptop..
You WILL have latency issue with this combo of M17x R1 + Windows 7 + Dual Nvidia 280m. Like i said, you WILL have the latency issue with ANY set of drivers you use.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Why do you need to contact people individually?

This has been going on for months now, and enough is enough.

 

Bill
I appreciate what your trying to achieve with this.But with the past history with fixes & the time its taken for your releases to get to the M17x owners.Even when your guys fault find these systems,they will then take this collective information back to the drawing board & we will be again waiting for the next release to materialize which in reality could mean another long frustrating wait .Do you not think that this has affected us owners & Dell's reputation enough.We really need a resolution of this problem now for both parties.

 

extraordinary measures ( is the duty of dell solving this )
but .... what happens to those of us in other countries?
I'm in Spain and here I have been waiting over 3 months with my expensive and beautiful brick
technical support has no idea what to do, just tell me to wait
to where they want to come?

 

Wow, it looks like the issue is not even acknowledged yet by the engineering team.
After following this thread for many weeks and having the issues for 6 months, my conclusion is that for some reason the tech support team is simply unaware (or just playing it that way) of what is the problem.

@Bill, could you please verify what kind of problems they have been trying to solve all that time?

This (courtesy of Stamatisx, I hope ) can be taken as an example of what's going on even though he doesn't notice stuttering/lockups.

1. Start the DPCLat Checker program.
2. Open multiple tabs in any browser.
3. Scroll up-n-down (when on websites loaded with flash)
4. Open and scroll large PDF files.
5. Start system monitoring tools like Everest, go to sensors.
6. Look at the max value in DPCLat Checker.
7. Make your conclusions.

Now before you say things like "This is a common problem with many systems and many brands", let me put it this way,-
I work in IT, and about a month ago I started checking every system passing through me for latency issues.
A very small percent of systems actually has 2k+ spikes. Those are usually netbooks and other inexpensive laptops + the MCP79+SLI/CF systems (Clevo M98nu).
Now when we talk about gaming systems, those spikes in certain demanding games can simply lock the system, and they do...
Also, some people use these machines for work in heavy video rendering as well as in graphics design. For them those red bars can mean a catastrophe.
After following the updates and 'fixes' under the supervision of your agents, they saw with their own eyes that the issue wasn't resolved and offered me (and many other R1 owners) a switch to ATI cards.
The 4870s did improve the situation! However those rare spikes and lockups remained. After my system froze during a very important presentation (just a few PDFs and PPs open in combination with a video playback proved to be too tough for the 'ALLPOWERFUL' to handle) I escalated the issue to the CEO level and was offered a switch to R2.
So right now I'm writing this from Linux, because I can't safely use my Windows7 partition and so far lost about 90+hrs of my personal time. The operating systems were re-installed more than 20 times in the past few months, every possible workaround was tried, with no effect!
I'm sure many of the forum members have gone through similar ordeals but never got any constructive offer from Dell.
Even though my issue is solved and the R2 system is free from latency and stuttering issues, I feel sorry for all those less fortunate still unable to normally use their aliens...
So I'm gonna ask you on behalf of all forum members-
If the system is beyond repair, or if it's not economically efficient for Dell to solve the problems by writing new chipset drivers, designing new motherboards, etc, or if the issue can't be solved in a very short time...-
Please authorize a complete switch to M17X-R2 systems, with warranty extensions and free upgrades to maximum specifications as an atonement for the damage done to all R1 owners who still have the problem.
This will both preserve the good reputation of the company and minimize the risk of class actions against Dell.

I know that you can't make that decision but please bring this forth to those who can, as eventually it's gonna be the cheapest way to stay in a healthy link with your customers.
Thank You.

 

Engineers have been looking specifically at DPC latency spike issues. They have used DPC Lat Checker, in addition to other tools that show more detailed information, to try to find root cause. The engineers presented data to my team that indicated they had it solved. When I engaged on this thread, I believed the information that was presented to me to be accurate.

Your points have been added to my internal reporting.

 

Thank You, Bill.

 

Which tools are they using? Maybe we could use them as well and post you the logs/results to help you out.

 

Bill,

I do not believe your engineers ever had a stutter/latency free solution. Not now, not a while ago. Not on a M17x R1 with Nvidia 260/280's & Win7. That is absolutely impossible. Why do you keep telling us or implying you have a solution when it is obvious to us that you don't? What does Dell/AW take us for?
As stated earlier in these theads, most of us are experienced users.

No solution is one thing, even we can understand that. But saying there is one and wanting to keep on digging and searching for even better ones and taking us all for fools, that's whats bugging me.

Be a gentleman, tell us it isn't gonna work now or in the near future. Propose a replacement procedure at management levels and we can all put this ordeal behind us and go on with our lives.

Please don't take this personally, it's Dell/AW I am referring to.

Thanks,

D

 

They are at least actively engaging the customers and acknowledging the problem exists. It's understandable that you're frustrated and I would be as well in that situation (and was at one point with my Quicksilver/R2). However, attacking the messenger (Bill) in this case or even Dell/AW won't really help you or other customers. What you guys should do is propose a time frame for Dell to solve this issue and if they fail, then they should be obligated to replace R1's with R2's of equivalent specification. That would be the correct course of action for Dell in this case.

 

Given how long this issue has been going on, I'd say a maximum of a fortnight would be fair. The issue has now been publically, even by John_B's standards, been going on for over 3 months. We have been told at multiple times Nvidia have been involved in trying to fix this issue, and if there is no further progress, I believe Dell needs to take it up with them, as suppliers of both GPU and chipset, as to why nothing was done.

Quite simply Dell cannot expect the consumer to wait forever, they are well within thier rights to expect a 100% functioning machine from Day 1, and it has now been months.

I know from first hand experience that Clevo/Nvidia have been exploring the issues together, Dell needs to do just that as well, but not force the consumer to wait whilst they do so.
Many people when given a proper time frame may well be happy to wait, but those who want a refund or an equivalent value exchange should also be within thier rights to claim as such, because the machine simply doesn't perform correctly at a basic level.

My related issues are being resolved as best as possible by my vendor whilst the process is ongoing between Clevo and Nvidia, however even they realise those of us with the issue have been put out because of this, and are making efforts in the background to ensure this will not go unnoticed, nor will we be left out to dry. Clevo themselves have been sending test drivers *from Nvidia*, which suggests Nvidia and Clevo are well and truly aware of this issue, and the beta drivers they have begun issuing suggest they at least accept it is something to do with them, rather than feigning ignorance of the issue. I have also been told they both see this now as a priority issue.

I'm not at leisure to say anymore about what is going on with our issues right now (because much of it is behind closed doors, and quite frankly I have no wish to get anyone in trouble), but it does speak volumes for where at least some of the blame may well lie.

 

Fortnight. . . funny. And you're right too, because time has been lost on the matter.

According to some people, the time-window already expired, and according to others, it has been running for a while. How do you establish a time-frame for this? Perhaps I can say, "We begin now, and you have two weeks to the very second starting. . . now!" It's just unreasonable to expect the consumers to act as a unified party, because while we all experience the same problem, we're not on a united front or even receiving representation as a united party. I don't remember some representation council to which I could sign over my name.

Having all that said, I think they are trying what they can try, but I stand by the consumer on this front. Yes, they shouldn't attack people like John and Bill, but complaints and outrage against Dell should not be confused with making cannon-fodder out of the messenger. Two very diferent concepts.

 

I'm just trying to suggest a time frame that is fair to both consumers who have been suffering, and also to Dell as it gives them a little time to at least make some progress.

Ideally if this had been dealt with effectively, we wouldnt be in this sort of situation where a fixed time span is necessary.

 

After 4 hours on tech support, I managed to get them to replace my GTX280Ms with the 4870s. They said that this solutions works for a lot of poeple, but there was still acouple cases where it didn't. I insisted on an R2 replacement for a %100 fix, but ehy stone walled me and I was already frustrated with their support so settled it. Crossing my fingers the X-fire config will get me back into smooth gaming on this laptop.

 

Well, the only way for that to be established, would be for someone on Dell's side to fully acknowledge this window and give people assurance that starting now, they have x amount of time to come up with a solution. If they cannot come up with a solution in x amount of time, then they will resort to y solution (R2 replacement; new motherboard; whatever).

 

Joker, I am not attacking Bill, I never shoot the messenger. I am trying to reach Dell/AW.

Talking about time frames, we have been working with time frames a long time now, solutions/fixes were promised. I am referring to John's blog about latency issues.
Two(2) promised fixes were announced, after which Dell should have proposed the replacements you mention. They did not. Instead of that, another spokesperson entered the stage, and is now asking us for even more patience. Add this to previous time frames, and what do we get? Customers having to wait almost a full year for a solution.

Imagine you bought a new car. After 1 day you conclude gears do not shift into 3rd gear or higher. Would you drive your car for almost a year in 1st, 2nd gear, waiting for the manufacturer to fix your last 2 or 3 gears? Or would you demand a working car with 5 gears within a reasonable time frame? It's your money, your product, your right. It should work as expected or receive a replacement. It should be no different for a laptop/fridge/tv/oven or whatever.

To me having another time frame and asking customers affected by this problem to wait again is not satisfactory. It was done twice already. The ball is in their court and they should pick it up.

It's not out of frustration I am posting this, I am getting my R1 replaced by an R2. It's for those out there I keep reading about that are having issues for more than 6 months now and don't even get the ATI cards offered. Let alone a R2. I am talking about Europe/Australasia/Africa.

Hope this will push others to fight for a properly working system and get a R2 replacement.

 

Yep, I think it has reached the time where something like this needs to be set. Customers require, and deserve and expected date of closure, not a vague...eerr...sometime in the future.

 

Just great Bill. But how about us in Denmark/Sweden? Are we to be forgotten?

 

The entirety of Alienware/Dell support Europe needs re-envisioned. I dont think Bill is going to be able to pull off that tall an order.

 

Agreed. We deserve an exchange like this - I believe this would satisfy just about anyone having these issues, and help Dell to avoid the class-action that seems to be about to hit them.

 

I have written several mails after I asked a replacement. Guess what still no answer. I have installed the A03 Bios as told and guess what? I still get some lagging in my games, The red spikes are still there from time to time. Why shall we keep on settle for a defect product not even capable of playing a game without some lagging? Either fix it on the next working day or replace the product Dell. And by the way please come by my home for a look at my m17x Dell. It is a good thing that you have promised me to call me on Monday between 12 and 13 so I can tell you that me red spikes and lagging is still an annoying issue.

 

I bought 2 laptops with these issue's for $8500. Earlier today, I thought I was getting both laptops GTX's replaced with the 4870s, but learned that they missed one. After calling back to resolve that and getting the worst uncaring, transfer-happy (they just transfer you sometimes without you finishing a sentence), customer service I have received in years, I have made it my mission today to get both of these laptops replaced with R2 models. I have all day, and I will be sticking to me guns.

 

You just return these two laptops. You can do that and then Dell will have to refound your money within 30 days.

 

Bought them last June I had been very patiently waiting for a fix, and am now just fed up.

 

Call Dell. Every day if necessary. Try the ATi's if they offer them. Or go take a system upgrade. Or take a refund. Don't take "keep waiting" for an answer.

 

computers suck
hoesntly. All of them I owned had there special issue so tried going even more expensive and going for the legendary alienware with dell on there side and this.

r1, r2, etc dell needs to replace my computer. Tired of calling tech support and spending useless hours on the phone.

now the thing they want me to do now is send the computer in... Yeah right. My computer is not going to be a guinea pig.

they won't even send me a motherboard to try that since some people aren't having a problem. (this will be my 3rd motherboard. Thanks dell.)

 

The best solution Dell can do right now would probably to replace everyone's motherboard + CPU with an R2 board/i7 or simply take a hit and hand out R2s. The chasis and connectors are all still the same. It's costing Dell a lot more in publicity with engadget constantly running the story.

 

cant agree more with u joker but didn't moo say that something with the lcd screens was not compatible ?

 

I agree with the general idea. It's the organisation part that can be a slight complication. However, if done right, such an approach can produce results. For now, I will wait a bit longer. My own machine doesn't have issues, and I am in the same boat as BatBoy and Lewdvig (getting the most out of the machine by virtue of restricting myself to Vista 64 and removing visualisations and other features that might ramp up GPU clocks), but there is a hidden issue with latency and downclocking, which shouldn't be there and also prevents many of us from moving up to a proper Win7 setup. Therefore, I am still going to keep an eye on this matter.

As for the previous-page reference to consumer law in UK. Well, it just brings back memories of the M1730 fiasco. There's a reason why I had a massive refund to my name, and that wasn't a result of uncondtional good-will on Dell's part.

If they don't wish to refund, which a lot of European users could easily attain because of the obvious nature of this case, then R2 is the only option for exchange. They're already offering these to previous XPS owners with busted systems. In fact, when I was in the middle of arguing my own case, their own escalations representative stated that "if new batches of the machine in question are no longer being produced, then we will have to provide you with something of equal or better specification. Alternatively, you can authorise a refund by getting in touch with the original owner."

 

Welp, a Dell tech told me that their management team was in a meeting and they have a real fix this time (not the one posted Friday). The tech said this would be a fix that involved an exe, possible A04. He's scheduled to work with me Weds to see if this fixes things, if not he said they could arrange an R2 replacement. So, we'll see what happens, hope I don't get burned again.

 

Thats funny . I just got of the phone with one of the head engineers at alienware from Miami and he will be at my house on SUNDAY to run some checks ? test? on my afflicted M17x. To see what the problem really is. He will be here around 12:00 eastern tomorrow( 4 hour drive). I will post back when I have some more details.

 

They work even at sundays ?, thats Customers Care Service, why so many bad things about them ? LOL

 

This is odd, If I use my USB mouse I can provoke latency in pdf files and using youtube but if I use the integrated built mouse in my m17x no red spikes at all. Perhaps just luck...

 

This whole thing is ridiculous and should have been fixed long ago, but what I think is absolutely terrible on dells/alienwares part is continuing to sell the R1s. They bump the price down 100$ and say nothing else about it, they are acknowledging the problem with the laptops and are selling a broken product... I finally fixed the old problems with my R1 (no help from support...) and now am focused on DPC problems. I tried watching a movie today and it was unbelievable that every minute I would have a terrible stutter... Anyway going to call dell in a few days and push for an R2.

 

I'm just loving this "fix". (sarcasm)

See Pic... each one of those spikes, my M17x completely froze for ~10 seconds. No response... no mouse movement...

Bill, care to comment? As you can see, this is after burning a DVD on my system. Burn actually completed this time, but drive froze up before burn verification.

...and yet, they still won't send an R2. This computer is basically useless to me, I can't do my work with it, at all. Lovely.

 

When the Engineers go out to houses of some of the US based users, will they be bringing along one of their supposedly latency-free m17xs from the lab? That would prevent them from possibly doing drastic things to the users computer, and the user could probably show that the lab m17x has latency (by opening up a browser page or two).

 

This is only when the m17x runs on the integrated NVIDIA card as soon as I disable it and run on ATI I can provoke these nasty red spikes

 

Recovered my W7 partition to add my 2cents here:
The first is the idle 20 sec
The second is while browsing ONLY!
Look at the max value! 30k with ATIs after all the work around the issue. The absolute best! Crap....

 

I am not insinuating that I have no stutters. I have no stutters.

This is Vista only. Win7 I have the same spikes as everyone else. I would much rather be using Win7.

Mine was respawned, all updates were applied and I installed the latest verde drivers from Nvidia. No special tricks.

 

Try $4200 (what the original owner paid for this).

 

We are not talking about Vista. Most of the customers received their systems with W7. I can show you my latency under linux it's even better than that MBP'. W7 is the default OS here. For games maybe, for now, you can stay with Vista. For work - Hell NO!

 

Here is my current Aikimox. Just a few minutes ago.



Bars never went up past 500.

Red bars? What red bars? I didn't see one at all.

 

So it isn't a hardware issue. You told everyone here that 4870s fixed the problem. Lots of people wasted time on that. Just saying...

I know. Even though I have a bunch of the whiners on my ignore list they still find ways to annoy me. For people who have this option, I am making them aware of it while they wait for a fix. I see no downside to having a usable computer while this mess gets settled.

 

And I was about to ask you guys what laptop would perform best at audio tasks. I have the answer. Thank you.

 

That's exactly what we ask from Dell. That's a normal latency for a gaming rig and should be similar in R1. Thanks for posting!

Side note: how are your temps compared to R1????

I went the same road of trials and mistakes as many other R1 owners. I still say the ATIs greatly improve the situation. But I guess they don't fix it entirely.
My apologies, Lewdvig.

As you can see from Rengsey R. H. Jr's post - M17X-R2 has no problems with latency.

 

Here is another one

1) Playing 8GB 1080P MKV file in Windows media player via external drive
2) Streaming music
3) Streaming youtube
4) Surfing net