M17x DPC Latency

Outstanding comment. A notebook which costs around 5 k $ should be flawless and Dell-people showing up at our doorsteps will not change anything unless Dell find a solution. So the issue here is simple. Will Dell fix it and how long time should they be given. Dell here in Denmark/Sweden has told me that they believe my issue is a hardware problem. They will change my ATI card with a new one as I told them that I only get the red latency spikes in the latency checker when disabling the integrated gfx(NVIDIA). If this solution will work out then I am happy but if this does not solve the issue I shall of course keep on calling....

 

please post a link then to this post then.

 

My laptop will never function as it should... that is beginning to be my thought on the ordeal.

 

Isnt it a bit unfair that Dell is taking all the heat for this while the real responsibles, nvidia, remains relatively undamaged?

Bill, do you know how much nvidia is involved in helping you finding a fix? I'm sorry for hijacking this Alienware thread but this DPC latency problem extends to other computer brands (Clevo, Toshiba and others, see this thread) but we do not have the strenght of numbers that the Alienware community has.

For us exchanges/repairs from Dell is not the solution, we're really looking forward to a fix for nvidia products.

 

It is Nvidia's fault at core, they have been producing crap. The R2 does not have this problem, But since Dell sell's this product they are ultimately responsible for how to handle it.

 

I am not usually mean but what you wrote is really a troll post.

Does toyota produce most of it's own parts? Of course not, yet they assemble the parts that other companies produce and make a car. When something goes bad with your Toyota such as the gas pedal issue which the company CTS Corp made then you still blame Toyota not CTS Corp.

Dell is responsible for lack of testing and implemented Nvidia's MB as other manufacturers already had the problem meaning they knew that the MB was bad but hoped to fix it later.

Dell is completely responsible.

 

/agree

Dell should have tested this machine for more then 15 minutes before giving it the green light.

 

i dont think they tested it. they just gave it the green light.

 

dude i'm only saying that you getting a brand new R2 replacement after months of legal action will not fix my clevo

... but you're still right, i do agree that dell is responsible for the products they are selling

 

Wow, the candle has turned into a fiery tornado!
And it's gonna get even worse. One of the M17X-R1 owners is about to take her system to a specialized lab for some advanced testing. She is leading a research @(#####)University in nano-technologies and will be able to check the chipset/mobo for possible standards violations. Still no info on what type of test/s will be run but I suspect something similar to what happened to that MBP a year ago.
So if there are bad solders, "bumps" or some electro-magnetic instabilities, we will probably know this soon enough as the results will be published all over the web.

 

Really? That is so great

 

If you are in any serious business you should know that it's best to release the emotions bringing a strange looking laptop to a conference than keep them inside and get only half of the possible attention when needed. I bring (was bringing before that unfortunate freeze) the alien to all presentations and conferences and was the first to laugh as the last thing I want during any meeting is an unnecessary tension...

 

uninstalled nvidia chipset drivers -> still fps drops with ATIs
install osd again-> still fps drops
reflashed bios of ATIs -> still fps drops


what to do guys? please help. should i call them to change my ATIs again?

 

Fps drops are not dpc latency.....they are a power distribution issue. Are you all stock clocks?

 

Write to AW CEO and/or escalate by phone again.
There's nothing else I'd try.

 

i use this M98 OC.rom of yours. it uses stock clocks doesnt it? and what power distribution means? that my motherboard is deficient?

 

It means that the bios does not do a good job of prioritizing power to the CPU and gpus. All laptops will stutter at one point. The one i put up is overclocked and overvolted. Do 1.10v 550 core and 888 memory. That is stock

 

so those are the right stock settings?


http://i50.tinypic.com/k4eebn.jpg

 

it seems that my stuttering was due to the overclocked bios of scoop. i thought it was stock vbios. i am testing more. signs are good till now.

 

In reading this thread since its inception and contributing very little. Here are my .02789547 cents worth of opinion.

Some of the posts I read are purely an individual angling to get an R2 as an upgrade to the rig they just recently purchased - problems or not.

Secondly, the fact that Dell, Inc. has acknowledged this problem and has assigned official representation in Bill to comment here - daily - is a sign of a company and engineering department confident that they will find a fix in this problem.

Don’t misunderstand my sentiment here… this is a major issue. This is an issue impacting a large number of individuals who paid for a premium product that is currently not able to perform basic tasks as would be expected. Thankfully for all of us, this issue is out in the open, officially verified by Dell and a hot topic of discussion here and on other web sources.

If this were an issue that was not going to get fixed in a prioritized fashion or “could not” be fixed, we would not see Dell representation participating in this tread or, more to the point, commenting on the topic at all.

I don’t know if this helps? In my instance, this rationale has stopped me from wasting any of my time calling tech support.

Let’s all hope for a speedy resolution and fix.

 

By that I assume you mean when the cpu is overclocked. Am I right?

 

"Some of the posts I read are purely an individual angling to get an R2 as an upgrade to the rig they just recently purchased - problems or not."

Yes, some of us did just recently purchase this laptop and feel that a replacement to the newest revision that does not have problems is an acceptable solution. And let me explain, it comes down to time, which you mention:

"If this were an issue that was not going to get fixed in a prioritized fashion or “could not” be fixed, we would not see Dell representation participating in this tread or, more to the point, commenting on the topic at all.

I don’t know if this helps? In my instance, this rationale has stopped me from wasting any of my time calling tech support.
"

I work as an animator. I purchased this laptop to produce high end commercial 3d animation for my clients. Every day that this laptop does not function in the manner that it is intended, I either lose business or I lose revenue on the work. It is next to impossible for me to complete audio synchronized work with the current state of my machine. I can't play back the work I finish because it stutters all over the place. I can't even go to a client and show them my reel on my laptop without issues.

The last few fixes have been 6 months in the cooker. If the problem was reported yesterday and we were being told a fix is a week out, I would understand. But it's not. It's been months since Dell knew about the issue, and they continued to sell it without caveats. I've said it before. I would have still purchased a laptop from Dell had I been informed. It just wouldn't have been this one, and it probably would have cost more. I can't afford to 'wait for engineering to make sense of the data'. I can't afford to lose anymore work time, or I will be out of business. So yes, I want a machine that works.

 

I must respectfully disagree with this point of view. I really do not care about the name(R1 or R2). I simply just want a flawless m17x and if then one I have cannot be repaired then I think a replacement would be in order. And for the people who have been patiently waiting for more than six months then I would say that it would fair to offer these people a replacement. And by the way should high latency be accepted in a high end laptop product? Just a little question to go.

 

Cyninger,

I completely agree... Very well said.

 

How long did it take for Dell to start participating very (like not once a month) actively with the community of owners? How many times have they ignored customer feedback on their bad attempts to fix this until now? They've got desperate and have had to put more effort into their customer services now they've finally realised they've got a massive problem. It's taken a long time. And so this isn't 100% negative - thank god they've sent engineers out to see for themselves that what's showing on their test machines isn't what most customers are seeing.

 

You just need to talk to a head rep who has the authority to do replacements and explain to them you've tried all their fixes, and you are now asking for a replacement. Tell them you refuse to accept any more "fixes" as they have wasted too much of your time already and you do not have anymore time to waste, and ask for a similarly configured/valued R2 model. They will attempt to pressure you to wait for another fix and drag it out for a week by telling you they have to go through channels to get the replacement, but just stick with it and put the pressure on them, it is your right to request the replacement, I don't see why more of you aren't doing it.

 

Exactly!...

Dell has a well established escalation procedure which I explained a few posts back... If you want a card swap/replacement/refund that is the ONLY way it is ever going to happen. ( BatBoy also has an entire thread devoted to the escalations process.)

John, Bill, Nagshead, etc. are not the ones to be blasting as that type of request is beyond their scope of influence. Their roll is just to provide us updates and gather critical data for the engineers so that a true fix can be developed.

Your support history, what has been tried, how long you've had issues, etc. is all taken into consideration. It's also important that you can provide the escalations representative with a DETAILED account. Suprisingly enough, I'd wager a guess that most of your accounts have sketchy information at best recorded from the techs. If you're going for an escalation you need to be able to fill in the 'blanks' and paint a clear picture of what you've gone through thus far.

There are no guarantees...

 

Let's review, please correct me if I get something wrong:

This issue has been reported for a very long time (August?).

After about 5 months Dell is suddenly paying attention. Thanks to the complainers and active members who have flooded CS.

Dell has had the final fix several times at least...

Companies regularly do damage control in these situations by sending out a spokesman who has no power to do anything. Just a messenger, not a decision maker.

There has not been an official acknowledgment of anything.

Dell even now continues to sell this laptop with no comment about an issue.

Whether you face the problem or not, the resale value of this laptop is taking a hit as well. Usually a year old Alienware commands a relative premium but less likely now. The value has dropped for everyone.

I think your comments are inflammatory and a red herring and I really don't see the point. For myself, I don't see the constant stuttering that others do (I'mn not pushing it super hard yet though) but I do have random freezes. I have no idea what will happen in the future either as no one understands what the issue is. Perhaps this is a degenerative issue? Red ring of death?

Dell is focusing on a software issue because it's the lowest cost for them to deal with. What changes are they going to have to make to get this to work? Will it affect my laptop 1 year from now?

The only way this will get solved is to continue to pressure Dell. They are dealing with this like a modern corporation, at a minimal cost to the immediate bottom line. The only way for them to take it seriously is to continue raising the issue otherwise they are more than happy to let it die away.

 

Phew, just finished reading daily 10+ pages of forum messages in this thread.

Bill, fyi, I'm in Europe (Belgium) and officially registered a support ticket for this issue via mail and referred to this thread and the ones from John on DirectToDell. Bratislava, Slovakia is probably not aware of the problem as they're asking me to run the regular Dell 32 bit diagnostics.

People in Europe, fyi, have a look at your local ECC (European Consumer Center) website. It' s probably a good idea to let Dell officially know that you experience the problem with this product, especially when you own the computer for less than 6 months (even if you're prepared like me currently to wait a little longer for a fix).

Oh, and by the way, to pass time while reading, MP3 playing in background and it stuttered only like 10 times during the last half hour (sorry, couldn't help it. And yes, I think I'm even lucky compared to other people here as I'm able to play games (occasional crash due to large spike popping up randomly after 1/2 hour - 2 hours) and to listen to MP3 without pops/crackle if I don't scroll the window I'm reading too fast).

 

i am hitting a brickwall with Tech support .Basically i have done all the required steps as asked by Tech support & it was agreed that he could do know more but he requested me to supply him with screenshots of my current system setup which i provided via email this information i provided was sent Monday this week so he could produce this to his supv so he could approve Ati's.I called today as i had not received a follow up call let along a email stating that it was received spoke with Tech Support my support is for UK which is Slovakia based i asked about my Emails which he checked but had not been opened yet.He went over the email then asked me to be on hold which was for over 25 mins while he looked for his colleague that was dealing with this.When he arrived back on phone told me that he was not available for me but then asked me to basically do what i had already done with 2 other colleagues & at this point i politely asked to talk with his supv he then said none were available i said that i was prepared to go on hold and wait for his supv but he refused i then asked for supv name so i could call him back again he refused.I then asked if i could be transferred to someone in escalations or resolutions representative but he said no just to send a email to there dept.I have provided them the details already .He also point blank refused to get my Nvidia gpus changed for Ati .I am to go to work soon for a month & i need the laptop to be a usable state .I have been really patient over this problem but now when Support are doing everything in there power to make this even more difficult .Not what you need when you have 3 years warranty is it.

 

Sauce I totally understand and am right there with you. In my case they admit that replacing hardware wont fix the issue but say its the "documented procedure" and whenever I ask for an escalation or supervisor, i am denied. I'm riding out the replacements and seeing what happens. Of course my motherboard replacement has "been switched to a different support provider" about 3 times now and I am beginning to think they are just creating a stall pattern.

 

They are trained to use the stall pattern, you need to go into your support with this in mind, and always ask for the head rep. After 3 failed software/hardware attempts in a row go for the replacement or refund, and do not give up on your stance.

EDIT: If the head rep asks "what makes you think the R2 model doesn't have the same issue?" just point them to this thread and Rengsey's post with video showing the DPC latency checker open with 8 different apps running at the same time without a hiccup or red bars.

 

This is the sort of thing that I was hoping would end once Dell acknowledged the problem. Which they have. Finally.

 

There's been an official acknowledgement?

 

I disagree with this. Most people here want a working laptop, what they paid for. This laptop has been out for several months and has not been fixed. I don't know about you, but it is not okay for most of us to have a broken laptop and no guarantee of a fix or a replacement. There is no guarantee that they will ever be able to fix it just because they say they are working on it. The only fix may be a brand new one. Dell just saying they are going to fix it is no longer good enough, after the last two failed fixes it is about time for a working replacement.

 

And we actually just want what we paid for. That is a new machine that is working without any defective parts or high latency. Is this to much to demand? I mean Dell could have put a hold on this R1 system until this issue had been solved. I did not tell the sales man at Dell this "Hi I would like to buy a m17x with a high latency issue and by the way could you through in a Bios A02 that won't really live up to the task of handling this machine". I ordered a new machine ready for use. So what is all this about we have to accept waiting for six months? No no waiting. A fix should be offered immediately or a replacement. Anything else is really not fair or legal(as far as I know).

 

cyninger,

It really does not make any sense when you say that people only want an R2 swap. You really gain nothing, maybe a little faster processor and maybe if your lucky an RGB screen. But you lose the integrated graphics along with battery life. So to me you would break even. And if dell can not fix this problem then I think it would be a fair solution, if it comes to that.

 

Yes, I have a pretty good idea. I can't really quantify their involvement like I have ours, but I can tell you without equivocation they are more involved than they were before about 5 PM, EST, this past Monday. How much more, I do not know, and would frankly be hesitant to characterize in a public forum for good reason. In no way am I, as an official Dell representative, saying the problem is Nvidia's. We took your money. It's our problem, and our sole responsibility to provide a fix, and we will.

Agree 100%.

We have acknowledged the problem on our blog. That is a Dell URL. The site is staffed by Dell employees, and you will find no disclaimer that any of the content authored by Dell employees is not Dell's official position.

 

That's so true roymathieu

 

Hey Bill,

Is there a way a date can be set that the M17x DPC problems are deemed unfixable? I know that engineering is working on a fix and all, but I just am not confident that this will fix it. I think it would reassure everyone with this problem if we had a date that it had to be fixed by or a replacement. I know that you specifically can't make this happen, but would you be able to suggest it to someone that can?

 

Bill could you read the above message and send a memo to the slovakia alienware support to let them know about the issue,

 

6h of phone calls over the last 2 days has amounted to 0% help. The response today was "we are no longer accepting or authorizing returns or replacements on these units due to this issue."

 

now that's funny. lol. that's like saying

"we have the solution which is to give you a new unit but we won't do that or give you your money back."

lost everything i had in dell.

 

I see what he did there. . . one can't help but agree.

The issue is believed to be with the Nvidia chipset and so a replacement of cards or other measures such as refunds or R2-laptops by Dell isn't technically a 'solution' to that problem. I kinda' agree. I'd like an M17x R1 with Nvidia cards and integrated GPU to function at its best--free of problems and stutter of audio and visual nature--with any mainstream OS of choice.

However, the onus for this situation is on Dell. Most of the people here are not really in the mood to wait for a direct solution. In this case, there is a difference in meaning, because the majority on this thread now want a swift-resolution at all costs, be it a sure-shot solution to the chipset, a refund, or an R2.

Edit:
As for that line by dell about not accepting returns. Please, people, do not believe this nonsense. Literally taking such a line will dig them a very deep legal grave. Issue will be solved, even if it comes down to replacement units, but that'll come at the steady cost of time and inconsistent reports. Go by the pattern. Before, few people got moved up to the M17x whilst others howled on the sidelines. Eventually, the majority were moved to M17x. Now a few are getting R2 replacements. . . see where this is going?

 

Bill - Surely you can see the damage responses like this from your Technical Support/'Customer Support' departments are doing?

Everyone understands there is no fix right now. Refusing to help people try anything else and telling them to wait and do nothing is even more infuriating. People have paid for a laptop that works NOW, in many cases over 3 months ago. Why are they being told they cannot have any help at all and have to go lump it? They have as much right to an RMA because at a base level the machine doesnt work properly, as you have to try and fix it [again, as there have been multiple 'fixes' now].

In the UK alone a return would be a LEGAL RIGHT under these circumstances. Im not saying this as a threat (and Im not sure on US legal position), but as a simple point. I DID have to threaten legal action to get my own issues sorted out, support was that poor here in Europe, please try and feed something down to the CS/TS divisions in the US and Worldwide, so this situation does not become even more of an issue than it already is, because its making your situation even worse than it ought to be.

 

Let's just hope the pattern stops at the R2! I'd like to be able to enjoy my laptop issue-free for more than one year!

 

But essentially this has some truth. They will accept returns in the 21 day return period but they will not give a working replacement after that (When you have DPC problems). I have talked to several people from tech support and their manager tells them they are to do nothing to solve the problem. The manager of course gets this from some one higher than him. So someone way up at a high position in dell/alienware is telling tech support that they can not do anything to fix the problem and the customers have to wait until Dell can find a cost effective way to fix it...

Yes some people will get R2 replacements, but for now that is just luck that you will speak to someone willing to do something...

 

And legally that is a very dicey move that could get them taken to court without much of a chance of winning in at least much of Europe. No joke. (research the SOGA and other similar legislation)

Whatever that manager decides, Dell are not above consumer law. Again this is not a threat, but a simple truth.

 

I can bring this up and let you know. My money's on a fix before a reasonable "deadline," (unless reasonable is 3 months ago, which I could definitely understand) and trust me, I don't like the abuse I know I'd get if I were wrong, so I do not say that lightly or for any reason other than I believe it to be fact.

Doing so right after I submit this message.

 

alex bud your right but dell are banking on alot of people threatening but not actually doing anything. and as of today supposidly alienware have seized trading according to the prat i spoke to at alienware, so no more units comming out of alienware irleland.

well not at least the older models. not sure if dell is gonna keep the base but i doubt it.