yeah thats weird. When I had my card, I had to do a force flash in DOS with ATIflash. I had the issue with device manager listing my 2nd card as not ready for use. I installed the CCC drivers anyway and it worked with out complications in that respect.
Just tried Crysis 3 for 15 min with no issues. Although it was not a long time. I was getting power issues much soon under load. In terms of the EnableULPS stuff, I still dont have ULPS_NA set at zero. I have noticed that my second card does not stay at full speeds either. No BSOD so far either. I will keep an eye and change that setting if necessary.
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looks like all your Issues were psu related. thats good to hear. so you are stable now at 24x multi In all cores? -
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Bad news. In doing another test in BF3 using TS, multis at 24, I get a black screen. The bad thing is that my rig wont power up at all. With PSU or on straight battery. I dont even get any beeps from the mother board. I afraid my worst fear has been realized...motherboard failure. Did a quick search and it looks like that may be the issue.
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Remove battery and power cable. Also unplug PSU from main power. Hold down the laptop power button for 30 seconds. Leave the PSU unplugged for about 2 minutes, then plug everything in and try to boot.
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Dude, you guys are not going to believe it. It booted up. Thank god. So I initially did battery removal, held power for 10 secs, replaced battery....no Boot. Placed PSu...no boot. Then I got scared and posted. I wanted to see if by any means my CPU died or something along those lines. I disessembled, removed the 2nd GPU, removed the 920 xm and replaced my original 740qm. I did one more power drain for 30 secs (per your recs and for good luck) and it just booted.
Since I didnt follow your protocol to the dot, I am unsure whether it was 1) the sequence, 2) the CPU, or 3) an act of GOD.
I will replace the 2nd card and see how it runs. -
No joke -
No kidding Flingin. I was already thinking about selling it for parts as I was dissembling.
I re-installed the 2nd GPU and graphics score on 3dmark11 is the same. Sucks that the physics takes a hit with the 740qm but im so glad my rig still works. I will see how it runs with the 740qm, and plan to re-install the 920xm over the weekend. Hopefully it didn't die. -
Glad you're back up and running again. Its only worth clocking up for benches since they run for a shorter period and the 240W is able to deliver above its specs before the heat affects it. For gaming leave the CPU at stock settings since you're running the 240W. Increasing multi's may improve your minimum FPS but its not worth the instability.
For improving CPU performance for benches all you have to do is increase TDP with the XM. You don't have to touch the multi's as they are set to run at 24/24/24/24 with our A10 BIOS. Make sure you keep an eye on your temps though.
Actually you can judge by the gaming experience with the 740QM. If you're happy with the gaming performance know that the 920XM at stock will give you a slightly better experience.
The only schlep with the PSU mod is getting the ID chip out the 240W. Once its out you can slit the 330W's cable and mod the chip into the cable without cracking open the 330W. Then use some heatshrink to wrap it all up again. I'll provide the diagram once I complete my mod. -
I will look forward to those diagrams. I have been testing the system and I feel something is not right. My CPU doesn't want to throttle past 1861 MHz. I have tried it under bf3, and prime with no change unload. It seems as if the system is in a power saving state....my CPUs only utilize 30-50%. Gpus utilize 40-50%. Again temps are great...CPU at 65, GPUs 50-60 under load. Alienware control state and Windows are at high performance. I have disabled turbo in bios, restarted and reenabled turbo as well with no change. Can this be related to psu damage during a shutdown?
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We have cookies.
What drivers are you using? -
its a 740qm. max non-turbo speed is 1.73. When I used it before, it would normal be at its turbo speed on load. It want to go faster but is limited, but I'm not sure why. Im am currently using 13.8 beta 2. I did a clean install after putting my 2nd gpu back in.
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Once more, please give some more details regarding your throttlestop settings. Are you sure your machine isn't running in Stealth Mode? (Rightclick Green or Red AW logo head on right-side taskbar if you installed all Alienware drivers, and check, maybe disable/re-enable).
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I just disabled/enabled stealth mode. I did a quick 3d mark 11 while in in stealth with low FPS results to verify. I am currently not using TS as I thought the 740qm is locked. Is there changes in TS you would recommend?
I played BF3 and crysis 3 for 15-20 mins with no shutdowns. CPU is still at 1861 mhz. GPUS performance looks fine on a second look. However, performance is a bit choppy, FPS ranges 20-60 in both games. It looked much more stable 40-60 FPS with the 920xm. -
Uncheck Power Saver, Disable Turbo and BD PROCHOT if you can. Raise the TPL settings to 80W/55A.
Save, and click Turn On. Do some benches after and see how it goes. -
huh, I never new there was an unlocked A10 bios to allow OC for non-xm cpus. I will flash it.
Flashed successfully and did 5% OC in BIOS. I applied the settings you suggested except the TPL, which is locked. I did to a clean install of TS. On Prime, clocks stay stable at 1964 mhz, and are the same in BF3. Temps are 65-70 c. This is weird. I mean, I used to get max turbo clocks when gaming when I used to use my 740qm. -
What multies did you setup in throttlestop? -
Max turbo speed will only be activated on a single threaded load on the CPU. Were you running a single threaded older game when you remember your 740QM running at max turbo speed? Newer games are multithreaded which drops the multi depending on the threads.
Can you check your Multi's in ThrottleStop? It should be greyed out but it should be something like 22/14/13/13. I'm assuming those multi's cos 22x would be for your single threaded 2930mhz, 14x would be for 2 threads @ 1862mhz (Which explains your clocks) and 13x for 3 or 4 threads @ 1730mhz. This is all with a bclk of 133mhz if you use the unlocked BIOS and change the bclk with a 5% OC these speeds will change.
edit: just found this...
Core i7 740qm, 1 multiplier more Base 13; Turbo 1/1/6/9
Base=13; 1729
1Core=22; 2926
2xCore=19 2527
3,4xCore=14 1862
So it seems BF3 has 3/4 threads which is triggering the CPU to use the 14x multi -
I'm thinking Nosferatu's post has around 100.1% merit.
Btw, just do a 3dmark11 run. If you get around or over 4500 physics, you're golden. -
You are the man! Exactly what you said. And as I said he cant get his multies in throttlestop over 22. While with the 920xm sky is the limit.. (or BSOD actually lol) -
Sorry, was away for while. Thanks you guys, especially Nospheratu for providing the facts. That gives me more reassurance. I suppose I just got used to seeing the effects the 920xm. I will continue to see how it performs throughout the rest of the week, but wont have much time to game to really test out longer session stability. I will see how the 920xm works of the weekend. I have a friend who I believe can help me do the power supply mod; he has the equipment as well.
I did a BF3 run and got a screen freeze after 20 min, requiring me to restart by holding the power button. I have had these before intermittently. Any of you experienced that? Also what are your GPU utilization ranging from? -
Thanks for the kind words guys
I don't have BF3 but I did a quick google search and it seems a lot of users are experiencing the freezes. Try following one of the guides to troubleshoot.
Look at NiveQ's power adapter mod. Especially this diagram.
The only change that that needs to be made on his diagram is that the green ID line coming from the 240W in his diagram needs to be grounded (connected to the blue line which is negative) for our purposes (the 330W won't deliver more than 240W otherwise). You can do this at any point in the 330W cable but ideally just after the ferrite choke (the cylindrical thingy) coming from the connector on the laptop side. -
So basically i can mount it inside the 330W PSU without removing the old chip? There should be room around where the cable runs out of the board if done carefully where one can access the board by only slightly bending the plastic.
Have a hard time identifying the chip on my 240 PSU from Delta electronics.
The boardline coming in on the bottom is the ID line going into IC133. I just dont see IC133. Is it surface mounted? -
IC133 is where you should replace it on the 330W PSU. On the 240W one, you're looking for (probably) a DS2502 chip soldered at the U208 location.
@Noshperatu: Are you sure simply adding the chip in on the cable and grounding it will work? I'm trying to understand the problems of Clevo users trying to use the 330W PSU with the ID Line cut, for whom it still plateau'd at ~240W. Any idea how inserting the chip like that handles the signal pull (high - low) that imsolidstate was talking about?
Remember, the mod on NiveQ's page is from a 150W PSU to a 240W PSU, which share the same ID behavior. The signal handshake system on the 330W PSU's is different (which is the reason why imsolidstate's mod didn't work at first). -
I sent him an email.
I found it could also be the IC134 on the top of the board. It should be an identification chip like the one he had to remove in the original 330 supply.
Wonder what i have to fix to replace the orginal 330W chip with the 240 w chip. -
@sangemaru, Yeah, theoretically it makes sense. The 240W ID chip only has 3 pins. Two that need to be grounded and the other that needs to be connected to the ID line coming from our laptops (No connection at all to the 330W ID line).
The 330W ID chip can be left in the 330W PSU. I figured this out, since the Clevo users fixed the 240W limit by just grounding the ID line from the 330W as per imsolidstate's instructions, so no tinkering with the ID chip, they don't use it anyway.
If for example you want to mod/replace the chip into the 330W PCB (unnecessary and messy imho) you would have to cut the ID trace after the inserted 240W ID chip so the 330W doesn't influence the R2's interrogation of the chip and then ground the trace after the cut to allow for the 330W to exceed the 240W limit. We're basically creating the same circuit outside the 330W housing except we're grounding the entire 330W ID line including the 330W ID chip (same as the Clevo users).
@Trome71, I remember vaguely someone else was also having trouble locating the chip on the Delta model. They did manage to complete the mod though. I'll try to find the post and report back. -
Ah, I see. Then I should probably make myself a little box like that one as well
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Yeah, thing is, that ID chip is so tiny you could just cut the cable and slip it in making the needed connections. Think of NiveQ's diagram as a cross section of the power cable if that helps. After some heatshrink there might be only a slight bump that would be noticeable.
I'm going the "adapter" route only cos I want the right angle connector. -
identifying could be as easy as using a basic multimeter and bleeping through the eeproms.
you could also measure from the id-line to diffrent eeproms. -
Hohohoho. Hello NiveQ
You're joining our merry club, I see. You'll have to modify the box and get the 330W PSU if you want to OC though, most probably. Glad to have you on board.
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haha
im still in the progress of upgrading to a 7970m CF setup
so ill just wait until my tweaking itch needs twitching.
anything i can do to help? -
Share your experiences, and build some more of those little boxes and give them out for free lol
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Looks like CrossFired 7970M R2's are gonna take over the world!
@Trome71, NiveQ's suggestion about using a multimeter is solid but in case you don't have one I managed to find the post I mentioned. neklec performed the ID chip swap from his Delta 240W. Read from here, he posts some images of his PSU's pcb and finally manages to get it to work (not completely since at that point we didn't know the ID line needed to be grounded but his ID chip swap was successful). PM him for some help to locate the chip. -
I am so glad my m17 doesnt need this mod !
thank god my psu handles easily everything I throw at it... gaming with 24x cpu multy and cards running 100% . So although I thought about doing it I decided that there is no practical reason to get in the expenses and the fuss to make it -
Hello guys!: Hi2:
Yes I managed to make mod 330watt PSU and to replace the ID 240 chip in 330! As you know 330 psu worked, but to be switched off in games. Now 330W isn't present with me, I to leave it in other city and now I look forward when my things will arrive to me. And I will complete mod 330W completely and to report.While I use 2x240W.
For Trome71,
The ID (DS2502) chip which is necessary to you is from a reverse side of plat and it looks here so
ADD Only Memory 1KB 2502 TO 92 3 DS2502 1188026 | eBay
it is the ID chip, but with a reverse side
here to solder and close
Then to add a crossing point where I noted yellow and accurately to cut out a trace where is allocated red
To try! Good luck!Attached Files:
flingin likes this. -
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So my poor old 240W PSU is definitely dying. You'll remember that in the beginning I was able to run crossfire + OC for a while, and until Bioshock Infinte nothing shut me down. Ever since then I've had to lower clocks more and more, up to a moment of truth yesterday when the PSU powered off with no overclock and crossfire disabled...
I guess I was really stressing the poor girl. I'm lucky I'll be able to do the mod monday or tuesday... until then I'll be running 2D clocks crossfired on the 330W PSU i suppose...
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Sorry to here that man. At least you have a solution just around the corner. I look forward to your success in the coming days.
I looked at some old bench data, and may CPU's performance is on par. Since I need to do work, I just going to leave the 720qm in until I have the power to run the xm properly. I just bought a 330W psu, which should hopefully arrive by next Friday. A friend of mine will help me complete the mod as he has the tools and much more experience. I read over Imsolidstate's post as well as a couple of others and it does look rather straight forward on second look. It looks like the Flextronic bricks have the green pcb and layout similar to his original post which should make localizing the ID chip easier. Although, I will use an older Delta brick I have laying around. Hopefully I wont run into trouble finding the chip. -
Got to ask.
The crossfire, does it work flawlessly? Is there a catch?
Will my computer gain something in heavy GPU games with my 940 CPU?
Gonna do the 330W upgrade, but havent started yet cause i need better solder station do make it right, so power is not gonna be an issue i guess.
Not gonna do it for benchmarking, but game improvements. But 4-500 usd is much for nothing.
As a secondary card, is it easier to upgrade to Alienware BIOS on the card than as primary?
Can i use pretty much any 7970M card? Will they run with my "old" one? -
I sure you are aware of the Pro's so I'll just list the Cons in my personal opinion. Since you mention you are going to do the 330W I'll leave out any power related Cons.
- BSOD's can occur when Alt-Tabbing out of a full screen game to the desktop. We still haven't pin pointed what's the exact cause but its a software issue as 13.1 drivers don't exhibit this behavior and AlienHack doesn't experience this. A workaround is installing the 13.1's and then installing the latest driver over it which does reduce the chance of Alt-Tab BSODs significantly. If your game has known crashes to desktop this can also trigger the BSOD. If your game is patched and does not crash or you don't Alt-Tab out of a game this point is moot.
- ...That's it
If other users are interested in the Cons using the 240W...
- The 240W PSU has to be able to deliver above its stated spec. At least 250W to avoid shutdowns.
- For stable gaming performance on the 240W, we need stay at stock clocks with both the CPU and GPU's (undervolted for added measure). Bear in mind gaming performance in graphically intensive games is phenomenal even running stock. Overclocking your CPU to improve performance in CPU intensive games might bring instability depending on how much power your 240W can deliver.
As to your other questions, I would suggest reading sangemaru's guide in the first post of this thread it is comprehensive and covers details of the cards.
Generally speaking, with the second card you will hit the 60FPS Vsync screen limit in most games as opposed to hovering around 45FPS in GPU intense games. The XM processors are still very capable chips. I don't see a problem with running one Clevo and one Dell card, although since the Clevo has auto fans and Dells don't I'm not sure if you might experience any hiccups with HWinfo fan control. If I were to guess I would say it would work fine as HWinfo will override the Clevo's fan signals. Also depending on which card is in the primary slot your HDMi audio/DP might not work. Afaik no R2 user has reported using mixed brands of cards so we don't have any factual info unfortunately.
Lastly, flashing the second card is as easy as changing a 0 to a 1 in the flash command for ATIflash (0 is the primary card, 1 is the secondary) -
Think i might go for the Aliencard since it should be as easy to get hold of.
Then they should be quite easy to start and pair up i guess.(there should only be one type of that card?)
Got to finish of the PSU mod first though since my efforts in clocking on the GPU has always resulted in crashes. -
By "Aliencard" I assume you mean Dell . What card (Dell vs Clevo) do you currently have? I would stick to that version. You are right as there are quite a bit of Dell cards on Ebay. The key point is making sure the vbios is not 015.022, which is not compatible with our system and not boot up. According to others in the forum, flashing down to earlier versions (015.021, etc) will brick the card. You may have to ask the seller to double check what the vbios is? Sometimes you can see the sticker of the vbios if there is a pic of the back of the card provided on the Ebay post.
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I'd like to take a moment and state that freshly installed (after AMD Cleanup Utility) 13.8 beta drivers don't BSOD either, and they have no microstutter issues.
With the crossfire, you won't sacrifice anything. Max it out, 60fps vsync. Simple. The combined power of these two cards can match or exceed that of an nVidia GTX Titan. The i7 extreme CPU is still one of the most powerful CPU's on the market when overclocked, nearby in performance or exceeding all but the newest extreme CPU's. It's stronger than a stock i7-4700mq for example, if you OC it. -
I have a Dell card true that. Need to do this update
Do i avoid the 015.022 Vbios if i get another Dell card or do i still have to verify by seller?
Just want to be sure i dont buy anything i cant use.
(there seems to be slightly different color on these cards on sale. Is that just the photos? ) -
I've seen dark blue, light blue, brown, black and green cards.
You can use the 015.022 vbios (in fact I even recommend svl's overdrive-unlocked version) on any card, however you can not use any of the cards that were shipped with 015.022 by the manufacturer. When purchasing the card, either verify that the card is already using a different vbios (since the default 022 ones can't downflash), or advise the seller to downflash the card for your safety, but only after warning him of the 100% brick possibility on manufacturer-shipped 022 cards.
Even with these safety steps there are still small chance of incompatibility (such as what has happened to me), but these are rare. -
Exactly what Nospheratu and Sagermaru say!! +100000
there is no hickup on these systems (m17x r2 - 920xm - 7970m crossfire)
they run rock stable and give the power of a titan when ocing cpu and gpus, running battlefiled 3 at 100-160fps (ultra settings) is not an easy feat. all my friends that shaw that were going crazy. couldnt beleive it.
Also i think that some of you might not even need the psu mod as i (i cant beleive i am the only lucky one) can run full system overclock (920 mx at 4core 24x multi & 7970 at 900-950core) either gaming mining or doing whatever i like.
Lastly the new beta microshuttering ati drivers are at last great. rock stable, fast and no microshutter. -
PSU mod success. Look at this run: AMD Radeon HD 7970M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-940 Processor,Alienware
Look at that CPU score. No cooling enhancements since my last mentions. My techie buddy explained my troubles. When components require too much power for the PSU to take, the PSU will start to lose voltage, resulting in system instability, power throttling, AND essential component VRM's (like for CPU and GPU's) will pull more current (amperage) to compensate the drop in voltage, resulting in MUCH increased heat.
93C max cpu temp in 3dmark11 running 25/25/25/25 at 85W/62A.
Temp drops on GPU's average ~7C. On CPU though, it's huge. -
Looks like R2 is going to be in Guinness Record book for its longevity
this is stock 780M
Generic VGA video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-950 Processor,Alienware 014M8C
i wonder how much close i would get to your score if i would OC it.....sadface....i can only run it on external HDMI screen.....
With Unlocked vbios i could go in 9000+ areas, which is, a bit sick, considering this is a single card......
And also ...Bro, that CPU temp is a bit too high:GEEK:, i would normally not exceed 85 at your settings, i am only getting 90+ when i do +75mV mod +3% @26 FID
And, i am slowly looking forward on 880M GTX.......i promise you i am gonna be the first to test in in R2....and i hope nVidia is not gonna to fail in writing the vbios, as they did in 780m -
By the way, 7970m crossfire overclocked can go around ~13500-14000 GPU score
So 780m has quite the way to go to catch up solo
My CPU temps are currently under the effects of Arctic Ceramique trashI have some new Noctua NH1 to try out, and i'll try to do a bit of retention mod on the CPU heatsink screws. Still, high or not, 6800 physics is very close to the maximums i've ever seen in 3dmark11 on this CPU. Compared to not being able to run above 2.8GHz because 100C...
Also, you're the odd man out mate, your settings are downright perverse. Can I ask what paste you use / application technique, and whether or not you use some kind of retention mod? -
Arctic Ceramique
....i was using it for 2 weeks but i was starting to see some crazy stuff...so..
My dealer sold me some ICD 24, line method on both CPU and GPU without using a debit card (if you know what i mean- joke), no C-Clips on GPU heatsink - normal
and yes, i DO wanna see those 13.5K please, i will make a wallpaper from your score
I must be honest, i love you all guyz -
Well, regarding my personally achieving the 13.5K GPU score, I'll try and do it probably next month, after I can afford to order some quality thermal pads (was thinking of Phobya Ultra 5W/mk). At the moment, if I try even mild overclocks I start getting instability regardless of voltage. I'm thinking the trash pads I keep reusing even after I touched them directly with my fingers aren't really doing their jobs... there's probably some VRM's that are hating me really bad when I OC.
It's great to have your nVidia perspective around, flinginWill be really curious to see those 880m tests when it comes to them
M17x R2 7970m CrossfireX Ultimate Installation and Tweaking Guide
Discussion in 'Alienware 17 and M17x' started by sangemaru, Jun 7, 2013.