M17x R2 full internal cooling mod - huge improvement!

never used those two..
I lately use mx3 and shin etsu..
I use pea method for mx3 and there's no way in hell Shin Etsu would spread from a pea method so spread it is

 

I do not use any thicker pastes. They will not lend themselves to optimal cooling as there will be a thicker space filled by the paste since it does not spread as thin. If you do anything like lapping the heatsink a thin paste is important or the effort is wasted

 

How often do you lap the heatsinks scook? I agree thicker pastes do not spread themselves out easy, but I can tell you that Tuniq tX-3/4 is some pretty good stuff and it has been shown to conduct better than AS5 and ICD7.

 

I have only lapped some stuff for my desktop. Laptop coolers are way to hard to get to the heat plate on too lap them well.

 

So what about a dremmel on lowest speed or is that dangerous?

 

Thanks for all the replies, I agree with scook about the pea method. This is what I ended up doing with the gpu using AS5 and it has shown to work very well. In fact, I first used a piece of transparent plastic to see how AS5 spreaded across the chip and it was just smoooooth, uniform and thin. I'm gonna do the same then with the cpu and tighten the heatsink. I know it is making contact but here's the question: how much contact is good contact, does it have to be touching the cpu or squeezing on it??

How tight did you get your heatsink on the cpu scook?

Mkelliny I don't know if you've seen this:

80-way Thermal Interface Material Performance Test | Thermal Interface Material,Thermal Paste,Heatsink Compound,80-Way Thermal Interface Material Best Thermal Paste Heatsink Compound Cooling Performance Comparison Benchmark Tests

this is an extensive article on thermal paste performance, it shows that there's a point where it really doesn't matter what high-end thermal paste you use. The differences in temperatures between them are as likely to be from human error (paste application) than from uncontrollable variations of testing conditions.

-cheers

 

Ya I have seen that I personally prefer Tuniq It has always been good to me. So I share my experiences with it, Also there is other things out there where ppl have done other reviews the one compared to ICD7 was on Notebookreview. Also, where those thermal pastes shine and differ are in the load temps.

 

Good point on the load temps, I don't think this was cleared-up in the 80-way review. And thanks for sharing your experience with tuniq, in fact I did read your posts on it in the early pages of this thread but since AS5 was easier to get I didn't go for the tuniq.

-cheers

Ok folks, I intended to post a picture of the cpu temps but I don't know how to, sorry!! I can tell you that after 5 minutes of stress testing with CPU Stability Test 6.0 Build 154 the temperatures stay at 61oC for core0 and 71oC for core1 (2.66ghz clock). Scook, this definitively better than what I was getting when you asked me about my temps but it's still not a convincing result.

The fact that core1 is 10oC higher than core0 at all times under load is interesting. Both cores are at 100% load under testing. I think both cores are on the same die so I can't think of the reason this is happening. Also, the cores drop down from 60 to 40oC within 3 seconds of stopping the stress test according to HWINFO32 (I don't know if that's actually possible). At this point, if you guys wish to move this to a new thread so we don't deviate from the graphics mods that would be fine with me.

Any ideas on why the temperature is higher on core1 than core0??
Thanks!

 

Hey there chiefs nice temps.

I'm pretty sure thats normal for dual core CPUs. One CPU would always be higher around 10 degs C than the other core. I experienced the same thing with my X9000 last time. However more experience uses please chime in.

How are you GPU temps chiefs?

I just did my CPU and GPU again with Shin Etsu since 2 tubes of it arrived yesterday. KOOLOS stuffs. 10 deg C drop instantly on the CPU. The GPU temps also dropped on load. I must also add that I was using AS5 for a very long time too previously however I am experimenting with other thermal pastes ever since I saw the cooler temps and reviews by users on here.

My CPU temps on all 4 cores hit 65 max doing everything apart from gaming. Actually I did some FIFA 11 and Lost planet 2 gaming before and it didn't go any higher on load.
With the GPUs doing everything except for gaming I hit a max of 54degs C on GPU 1 and a max of 48 deg C with GPU 2. So very impressive stuffs indeed. Both my GPUs are in use at some point as well since I'm using the new GPU rendered firefox and IE. GPU 1 still takes care of most of the load though.
Also the ambiant temps in my room now are very hot. It is 35 degs outside and who knows how hot it is in here. No AC on that needs to be fixed. I'm so hot right now so its good to know the Alien is keeping cool. Fans are soo nice and quiet as well. SICK SICK SUBWOOFER oles!!!

Can't wait till the rest of the 5 tubes of Shin Etsu and 2 tubes of Tuniq TX-4 arrive so I can test them out as well. Looks like AS5 is KOed from now on. Wheres AS6 lol.

Cheers.

 

It is normal to see deviations between cores in a cpu. My Q9550 in my HTCP normally has a 10c spread between all the cores even when they are all idle. I chalk it up to miscalibration

 

Thanks for your input guys, reborn, my gpu won't go past 75oC with Furmark at 1024x768 with 8xMSAA, and should be quite cooler when playing games. It idles at around 39oC +/- 2oC with an ambient temperature of 25oC. It probably idles cooler than that but I haven't left it idle long enough to check. I really don't think I shuould mess with the gpu, I'm quite happy with the results.

Still, guys I can seriously tell you that the i7 620m originally had temperatures that were cooler at 3.33ghz than the i7 720 and up. Reborn, can you give me some details as to what you did with the Shin Etsu? Did it drop 10oC from what you got with AS5?

 

Hey theres chiefs,

Yeh cool cool, If temps are good I wouldn't mess with it either.

Yeh I just got a couple of tubes delivered the other day. I totally forgot I had ordered them earlier. I still have my main orders to come next week. I ordered another 5 sticks of Shin Etsu and 2 tubes of Tuniq TX-4.

All the pics and reviews I have seen recommend those 2 quite a bit. I got interested because their idle temps were slightly lower than AS5 and the load temps were significantly lower than other pastes such as AS5. Sometimes 10 to 20 degs C.

So far just a quick try with my 2 tubes yes the load temps were 10 degs lower than what I had seen with AS5.

My AS5 had also been broken in a few weeks now. So they were rocking some cool and stable temps already. So the instant difference Shin Etsu showed was very promising. It is quite difficult to apply however. Took much longer and more effort to apply it. However if the temps are good or better it will be worth it.

I'm looking forward to trying the TX - 4 sometime next week hopefully.
My GPU temps also don't rise above 75 degs under load on AS5. The load dropped to high 60s with Shin Etsu so far.
Also whilst I am doing everything apart from gaming my temps hover around the low 40s and max out at 54 degs for the GPUs. For example watching blu rays, surfing with many many tabs and sites in GPU rendered IE and firefox, doing heaps of downloading and many other tasks. I usually have like a million things open on my notebook at any given time lol. Also I keep my notebooks on 24/7. They are almost dling 24/7 as well.

I am pretty happy with the temp results so far. If they can get better with Shin Etsu or TX- 4 then oles!!! Even better. I love how silent the fans are these days now as well. I hate noisy fans especially if I'm not gaming. Can't stand it. Also ambiant temps here are super hot now. Around 30 - 35 degs. So I'm quite impressed with the cooling and temps. I was running the notebook previously in winter temps so it obviously had an advantage of sorts with cooler temps. So this is a very good result with the temps and cooling atm.

Also CPU temps hover around the low 50s with me running all my tasks and max load out at 65degs on 4 cores. So not to shabby there as well. I'm expecting big things from TX-4. I just hope I ordered enough lol. I actually ran out of the shin etsu 2 tubes I was using the other day. So will have to wait till the rest of the orders come in. AS5 is gonna take a back seat now after serving me so well for a long time. Wheres my AS6 lol.

Cheers.

 

hahaha... sounds good!! Your temps do sound prety amazing considering the hot ambient temp. you got. My fans are still always on but at the lowest speed though when idling.

Now are you running out of Shin Etsu cause you got a lot of systems you're re-pasting or how's this happening? Oh, and what method do you use to apply it on the cpu?? I'm ordering a tube right about now =D

 

Here is my thread on these cooling mods!!! PICS!! Temps are awesome!!!!
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m17x/523915-pics-cooling-mods-done-tx-4-clip-mod.html

 

If we are throwing pictures around, here is my 4870 prepped for the heatsink to be re-installed. I pasted the extra stuff since it was touching the heatsink anyways (it is power circuitry stuff so figured it can't hurt). Also noticed that my 4870 does not follow the standard board layout for MXM which can be seen on the 5870 in handsomerob's thread

 

Yeh the weather has only recently heated up. Temps have rocketed up again lol. The temps were already quite awesome with AS5. I was very happy with how it was performing. Then I saw how Shin Etsu and TX-4 were performing for others. It was doing even better so I decided heck I might as well give it a go. I'm more interested in seeing how TX-4 does compared to shin etsu. Its supposed to be even better as a few users have told me.

Yeh the 2 tubes I got in the mail the other day were like tiny tubes or something. One of the tubes I had to use all up on the CPU. I was like whoa. There was like so little in the tubes. I guess thats why it only cost like $2 per tube lol. Yeh I ended up pasting 2 other notebooks in the house + my alien. However you do seem to have to use a bit more than AS5. You'll see the texture of it when you get it and try to use it. Much different to AS5. Its thicker. If you can get your hands on some TX-4 that would be great to try as well I'd say.

If anyone else has any other super pastes they can recommend that would be Koolos as well.

Cheers.

 

scook did you notice it helped drop the temps putting paste on that extra stuff?

 

I noticed on my 260s last time that there were tiny small square pads for each little mem chip as well as the 2 long strip ones.
The temps on the 260s don't go above 65 degs under intense gaming.

I reckon if we can cool our mem chips more on the R2s their temps could also drop even more oles.


Cheers.

 

please elaborate, like 2 layers? Also on my GTX 280m's there was a folded pad on a mosfet at the corner of the 2 banks of vram, not sure how necessary it is but I will make sure that they have some EK pads on them as well

No clue, just figured it cannot hurt lol

 

Not really 2 layers chiefs but just pads on each mem chip.
Yeh I have the same thing. Pads everywhere lol. In fact pretty much where there was a mem chip it had a pad on it lol. I too have that thick pad on the end of each gpu card. The little mem chips under it LOL ehahahaha
Not 2 layers chiefs but just pads on each mem chip.

The 5870s had nothing like that with PAD central though lol. Just the 2 long strips of thermal padding.

Cheers.

 

This post comes from this thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m17x/523915-pics-cooling-mods-done-tx-4-clip-mod-7.html

and it is regarding a heatsink manufacturer from California that can look into making all-copper heatsinks for the HD 5870's in the m17x laptops.

---------------------------
(QUOTING MYSELF)
Ok guys, Handsomerob and I talked and here's the deal:

The only way we'll be interested in any custom-made heatsinks (ATI HD 5870) is if the company takes the full laptop and tests their stuff, proving that the product is a viable upgrade from the current mods we can do ourselves.

For this though, we need to know how many of you guys would be interested in buying one or two of these HS's if they indeed rock and how much do you think they should cost. Bear in mind these will be custom, all-copper heatsinks that will be made to ensure the highest possible thermal dissipation from an air-cooled heatsink for your hd 5870's in your m17x (a very specific product).

Now whether these heatsinks would work for other cards is something I can't answer, but it is a possibility.

Ok folks, who said ME?!!

-cheers

 

I know that Ash mentioned it in his OP but a reminder:

WARNING: Be careful when performing the retention clip modification as you run the risk of chipping the GPU die which will physically damage the GPU irreparably.

I say this after discovering tonight that I damaged my secondary 4870 (fortunately it was only the one card). I do not blame anyone but myself for the damage, but want to make sure that everyone is aware of the risks involved with this modification. Rather than performing the difficult retention clip mod, I recommend trying a copper mod using a thin copper shim to close the gap instead.

And on an unrelated note, the paste I used on the power circuitry stuff is pointless. It was completely dried up when I removed it today (large gap filled by dry paste conducts little heat) so just focus on the memory and GPU die

 

Hi Great Mod

I’ve run Furmark on my M17x-R2, and reached a max temperature of 99oC to 101oC in GPU-Z. When I prop the back of my M17x on some DVD boxes to improve the airflow, this MAX temp drops to 89oC.

I’ve read through most of the posts, so I’m sorry if this question has been asked before, but has any one tried the following?

Placing Copper tape on the graphic’s cards rams modules and removing the thermal pads, so that the copper tape touches the heat sink directly to increase heat transfer, and also raising the heat sink slightly so that it sits more level on the GPU Core?

______________________
Alienware M17x R2: Nebula Red Base | Intel Core i7 740QM | CrossFire HD5870 2x1GB | 1920x1200 Screen RGB LED | 8GB 1333Mhz Ram | 2x 500GB Raid 0 | Slot Load Blu-Ray Rom | Intel Ultimate N 6300 WiFi | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 

It's a good idea, but to my knowledge hasn't been tried. Copper isnt as easy to work with as paste/pads alone, and I personally never see it sold anywhere.

 

You can buy copper sheets very cheap on eBay but yeah, I havent seen anyone try it too. I think the CPU could benefit from such a mod as well-I ran wprime with the keyboard out and monitored CPU temps. I saw dramatic temp drops when applying slight pressure on top of the heatsink which leads me to believe that the contact is not 100% there. I might try to place some copper between the CPU and the heatsink but right now I have other projects on my mind (DIY mycology project )

 

You put in a copper shim and you would have to put double the amount of Thermal paste... Once in between the CPU and Copper and again inbetween the copper and the Heat Sink.

Unless there was a way to use molten copper you are not going to fill all the micro crevises that are unavoidable in the production of the copper shims. Without the thermal interface material you are going to have micro air spots that will not transfer heat as effeciently as the thermal paste does.

I really dont think the copper shims idea is a good one.

Best is to perform some of the mods tested by users here that improve the contact of the HS and GPU/CPU with use of minimal thermal compound.

Also always remember to prerub your thermal compound into your heatsink using a microfiber cloth or better yet a coffee filter to help lessen the burn in time by pre filling those micro crevises. I have even done this reprub before on a desktop CPU chip and the heat sink to help lower temps quicker

EDIT: Oh and I will be posting my results before and after once I get my new thermal compound and Fujipoly pads.

 

I think performing a copper mod using a shim could work well for the memory chips. The less thermal paste needed the better but it is still essential to fill the micro spaces as anderj235 mentioned.

 

Hi rsgeiger

I've used Aluminium tape for EMI shielding before, but not copper tape.

I've searched the internet and found it doe s exist, you can follow this link for an example:

EMI double copper foil shielding tape/conductive copper adhesive tape products, buy EMI double copper foil shielding tape/conductive copper adhesive tape products from alibaba.com

_______________________
Alienware M17x R2: Nebula Red Base | Intel Core i7 740QM | CrossFire HD5870 2x1GB | 1920x1200 Screen RGB LED | 8GB 1333Mhz Ram | 2x 500GB Raid 0 | Slot Load Blu-Ray Rom | Intel Ultimate N 6300 WiFi | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

Yes I agree Snook9.

I was thinking that instead of using the thermal pads, to use Copper tape, and yes some thermal paste.

_______________________
Alienware M17x R2: Nebula Red Base | Intel Core i7 740QM | CrossFire HD5870 2x1GB | 1920x1200 Screen RGB LED | 8GB 1333Mhz Ram | 2x 500GB Raid 0 | Slot Load Blu-Ray Rom | Intel Ultimate N 6300 WiFi | Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 

Copper tape would be too thin, just get a 1mm sheet of copped and cut strips to replace the thermal pads. This will be a lot of effort though to do for both gpus (I have never viewed copper mods as convenient lol)

 

scook, what do you think of the idea of copper piece between the cpu and the heatsink (of course with thermal compound in between both)

 

It's already a copper core heatsink, you'd just be adding another layer of thermal resistiance if you added copper ontop of copper. The problem is that it's not secured down as well as it should be, adding more material won't solve that problem. You'll need to either bend it a little to increase tension like joker did or find a way of holding it down to the mainboard better.

 

I just got my M17x... and haven't done any mods yet. I'm going to do the retention mods when dell send me my 2nd 5870m so that i can do it all at once. Everything makes sense to me, except i don't quite understand what to do with the C clips n all that? can someone clarify for me? Please? Lol thanks + rep for sure

 

essentially the clips keep the screws on the heatsink, you're removing the clips and re-attaching them back on the screw off the heatsink. You then re-screw the heatsink on with the clips now on top of the screw holes which adds the increased amount of tension.

 

wouldn't adding the copper improve contact ?

 

It would, by filling the gap it causes more pressure between the heatsink and cpu die. The added material is nothing....the only concern would be the additional copper-TIM-copper heat transfer junction added some thermal impedance but this will be worth it as the overall effect is still far better than the poor contact that was initially there

 

that is exactly my reasoning..
not sure which size to pick though, 1mm seems too much, i'll try 0.5 and 1 and see what's better when i get to this.

 

I still don't think it will help, if it's sitting at an angle to begin with and you add material you will be adjusting the angle at which the heatsink sits(by making it worse) instead of fixing the source of the problem. has anyone looked at how it's sitting? is it pivoting or is the heatsink somehow concave/convex?

 

Anyone in the DC/MD/VA area willing to help me out with this??

 

If it is at an angle, then no, the shim will not help too much. I did not know if it is at an angle or just not tightly against the die. And you want a thin shim, like .5 mm

I am in Fairfax/Vienna, so maybe

Shoot me a PM

 

Even though i haven't tried anything yet... to me it sounds like a combination of carefully bending the heatsink ever so slightly, the c-clip mods on the screws, and new thermal pads on the ram chips (or paste i you want to go the extra mile..) with some MX-3 or OCZ freeze (ceramic) on the die, and the tape for to seal of the air duct... should be good enough. Personally i think the copper shims would work but would be too much of a hassle finding shims of that thinkness and all... So i'm probably going to stick with what joker did.

I know the improvements with furmark are outstanding... but what kind of temp reductions should i expect during gameplay with the mod? I'm topping out at round 72-73*C now after a couple hours of gaming playing MoH LE...

I don't know why Dell give this beast 3 fans that spin over 4000 rpm, and open vents all along the back n underneath, with heatsinks that don't make proper contact on the components... When i first saw the temps i was getting, considering all the noise the fans make, i was truly disappointed. Good to hear that with this fairly simple mod, all can be running like it should've in the first place! If it weren't for this mod, i can honestly say i was going to go back to my M15x, as it currently gives me better temps with the same 5870m OC'ed to 850/1100 for gameplay with its fans making 1/3 of the noise.

Now it looks like i have grown to like the M17x over the M15x.. although larger... it like the extra performance possibilities and slight better build quality, and of course, this beautiful RGB LED screen Looks like i'm here to stay guys

EDIT: Now if i can just find a new backpack to haul this thing around... Anyone give the Belkin 17" energy backpack a shot? I used the 15.6 version for my M15x and loved it! I'm all about my backpacks being as slim as possible...don't like the whole bulky bag thing..

 

i acutally didn't see any big idle difference, however where I would hit 100c in furmark extreme I now hit 75c. the fans usually stay at stage I rpm too while gaming.

 

at idle not much would change.....these things can probably idle without the heatsink even attached

the difference between gaming and FurMark will depend on the game though. I know Crysis tends to get my cards about as hot as FurMark will

 

if he's like me and read the first few posts, you get the impression that idle would drop 10c lol,

 

My thoughts exactly.

Since copper has one of the higher thermal conductivities, and so would draw heat away from the IC's better that the thermal pad that are used, but I'm actually not exactly sure what the thermal conductivity of the pads but I am sure it is less that for copper.

So by adding the copper between the heat sink and the Ram moduals/CPU ext. you would efectively be increasing the reach of the heatsink.

 

Yeaa lol... hey thanks for clearing up that part about where to put the c-clips there Lozz... It was very well said and described.

Ok so i guess at idle i can expect the same improvements changing the stock paste on the die would do.. maybe 1-2 degrees less.. makes sense

What you said about when gaming the fans only stay at stage 1 rpm... really? because thats really amazing... actually i wouldn't even mind stage 2... its at stage 3 that all hell breaks loose and it seems like i have to really hold on to my laptop to make sure it doesn't blast off n go through the ceiling lollll

You would always need to use paste or pads to give proper contact between the copper and the chips... its the micro gaps and air pockets that prevent the proper dispersion of heat... the shims would be needed to lessen the gap, btu a thin layer of paste is always essential

 

you're already going directly to the gpu heatsink anyway, I don't see the sense in adding copper, when I peaked at it there wasent that much gap, definitally not .5mms worth.

 

Yes agreed.

Yes I agree with the thermal past, definetly essential.

No, not for the GPU, from what I understand, is that the heat sink sits skew on the GPU, since the ram moduals are lower and the heat sink is setup to touch them.

So by placing some thing between the ram moduals and the heatsink, you can get the heatsink more level on the GPU.

 

Do we have any iron workers on these forums? loll how bout we solder a thin sheet of copper to the half of the heatsink that sit on top of the ram chips, to get a nice level fit. lol

 

you do the mod because Even .5mm(it's closer to .3-.4 if you factor compression of the pads) pads cause the hsf to pivot on the gpu core since the pads raise the hs on that side(because of the lack of a gpu core shim), that's why you use regular paste instead with the mod. adding .5mm of copper is just going to cause it to pivot again. I'll take a look at the distance between the ram and hsf when i get home, but I'm 96% sure the hsf is almost sitting on the ramchips to begin with after the mod anyway.

 

So even with the thinner pads the gpu die still gets poor contact?

that sucks....