M17x R3 with gtx 580 a mistake?

Greetings all! I have been stalking the Alienware outlet for a little while now and I finally found an M17x that I figured I would be happy with so I ordered it. One of the things I really wanted was the 580m because I have a pretty beastly desktop even though its old and I am a graphics nerd that likes to max everything so anything less wouldnt cut it for me. Only after ordering the machine did I stumble into these forums and see all the problems with the throttling. Now I am terrified and thinking that I just made a huge error and that I should have just been patient and waited for the Keplers whenever they arrive. Does the throttling affect all 580's or is there a chance mine will be fine? I have already seen the numerous alleged fixes for it and to be honest Im pretty annoyed that this is still an ongoing issue with a card over 6 months old. I should get the machine on Monday the 14th but I just dont know if I will even want it now or what I should do with it if in fact I have the issue. Any thoughts from some of you smarter people on here is appreciated.

 

You can just try it. My first machine with 580m was awful, but I got an exchange and it is actually quite awesome.

You can do the 580m throttling fix, which is just a quick vBios flash, and you will be all good as long as you can keep it under 77c. A Dell rep has also said they are investigating the 77c throttle and will be providing a fix, so at some point it might go away as well.

 

So all 580m's throttle?

 

some do, some don't, mine never did, it is a matter of quality of the paste job by dell I guess

 

The issue may be confused a little here. I'm a new owner of this particular laptop but I've been all over these forums. I believe the answer you are looking for is YES. All 580m M17x R3 laptops throttle at something between 77 and 79 degrees. The lower throttle is easily removed with a vBIOS flash as stated above. There is no workaround for the 77 degree throttle except keeping your GPU below 77 degrees. A lot of people never see it because if you have a good paste job and aren't gaming in a hot place then the GPU will stay below that temp so it won't matter. They all do it IF they reach the throttle temp but many never reach it.

I actually ordered a tube of good thermal paste when I ordered the extra RAM and SSD for my new laptop from NewEgg. My parts and paste arrived the day after the laptop. I will apply it tomorrow. If I'm going to own a laptop that is sensitive to such a low temperature then I expect that I'll have to do a very good paste job on it and hope it runs cool until Dell does something to fix this. So far I have not seen my laptop throttle and I have not repasted yet.

If I'm off base here veteran posters please feel free to blast me out the door. From my research these are the facts as I understand them. Yes there is a throttle issue but it will only be a problem if you encounter a series of events that causes your GPU to run abnormally hot. In my brief experience it doesn't happen running games or watching movies in 3D or otherwise. This summer I may be very upset but so far its running like a scalded ape.

 

This is truly sad. I did my research and right now the 580m is the card to have, just not in a Dell. I was looking at other machines as well such as the Clevos and MSi's but due to the savings I was getting in the outlet I went with the M17. Only after ordering while I was poking around in the forums did I realize my error. I had no idea that Dell purposely handicapped their machines. 10 years ago I said that I would never buy anything Dell again........This was all on me I should have known better. I dunno I figured things would be different with this as it is under the Alienware brand. Yes I saw the fix for the lower throttle and while I am certain that it is very easy to do I find it completely absurd. Yes I saved money on this machine through the outlet but at around $2000 its still far from cheap and should not REQUIRE a "fix" that apparently only fixes part of the issue. I have also just seen that Dell Bill has acknowledged the issue and says they are working on it....Not holding my breath on that one. I appreciate your responses guys but I will be returning this asap. Now I get to deal with Dells return shenanigans, OH JOY!

 

if it is something you are worried about perhaps you should look into the 6990. easily the equal of the 580, just with give and take hear and there, but it doesnt throttle. fwiw my 580 has yet to throttle on me in the 2 months ive owned it. i have mostly played battlefield 3, skyrim, civilization 5. i dont overclock mine and from what ive read on these forums with a good repaste and elevate the back you wont ever hit 77 degrees unless you are overclocked.

 

Did you do the throttle fix?

 

nope, havent had to yet. i expected to need to but i put my m17x on a coolermaster u3 and havent had any problems. im still using the stock paste as well. been playing skyrim a lot lately and when i exit to desktop gpu is usually at 60 degrees and cools to 45ish at idle/web browsing. i have some arctic silver handy but havent had to use it. im taking the dont fix what isnt broke approach.

 

That's like saying if you hold your tongue a certain way you'll score higher when playing pinball.

You shouldn't HAVE to open a brand new $2k computer up and work on it, nor should you have to hold it in a certain way, wait for a full moon and sacrifice the neighbors cat in order to play a game on it, especially not when it's advertised as a GAMING COMPUTER. It's asinine and I hope for the sake of all you 580m owners Dell pulls their heads out of their 4th points of contact and FIXES IT.

 

I'm a happy 580m owner. I've never expierienced any obvious throttle symptoms. I browse this forum often and applied the vBios update from the guide in these forums, as a precaution, but have noticed no obvious difference. My paste is stock and I keep my laptop on a cooler pad (I don't use the fans in the pad.. I just use it to raise it off my lap a bit to avoid blocking the air in take vents (since I use my laptop on my recliner and in bed mostly).

Generally while gaming 67 degrees celcius is my common upper limit... though I have reached up to 73 degrees in some games. So maybe I am lucky enuogh to be avoiding the throttle temp.

Anyways just saying we aren't all having problems. I play games like SWTOR, BF3, Starcraft 2 to give you some idea.

This is my first gaming laptop (I have owned it since August 3rd of last year) and the only thing that bugs me, a bit, is the fan does get loud when the gpu is under heavy load. Honestly though I expected and accept this due to the compact design that laptops have to work with.

Anyways that's my 2 cents.

 

Hello,

At first my alienware suffered from a terrible throttle issue but after they replaced the card it has yet to happen.

 

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my m17x. I researched before my purchase, and even with the "issues" the 580m may have, I still wanted it. I have nothing bad to say about AMD, and if I would have purchased the Clevo laptop I was looking at last year, I would have gotten the 6990m because of the price difference. To me, the issues that the 580m can be overcome, perhaps I won't even encounter them.

@OP, before you jump the gun and return your laptop, give it a few days. You might not have any issues. You might have a ton. Don't pre-judge your system without ever running it. I hope it does work out for you, and if you decide on the 6999m, I've heard you can't go wrong with either card. Best of luck.

 

I'd tend to agree with SlimShady on this one; with laptops like these, these issues shouldn't exist. That being said, this is Dell we're dealing with, so it's not unheard of.

Having said that, if I were awaiting a new M17x, I'd repaste the CPU and GPU anyway*. Lower temperatures are always better, and it's not exactly something difficult, so why not?

*After checking that it works fully out of the box, of course.

 

I was probably the most outspoken detractor of the 580m, and I just want to say again.

TRY IT!

Seriously, my first laptop was a mess, even with repasting and elevating it would game in the upper 70's C and hit the throttle now and again.

My new laptop stock, no repasting, no messing around, games with a 20% overclock around 65C. It is an incredible difference, especially considering this one is all stock and I have done nothing to it.

Right out of the box before even flashing the vBios I tried some benchmarks and such, I couldn't even get my new laptop to do the 63C throttle, it was getting to max temps in the mid 60's and not throttling to P1. My first laptop would throttle to P1 as soon as it hit 63c.

My point here is there is some variability in the GPUs, Dell still needs to fix the 77C throttle, for people who get a hotter running card or live in hotter climates. However, if get a good cool card then it really is not an issue, I have not had any issues with my new machine, and it is a class above any competing gaming laptops.

I also had a 6990m while waiting for this new 580m unit, and it made me appreciate Optimus more. At least for my uses Optimus is really nice and so far has been completely invisible. I set my laptop up at home and game, then I unplug it and take it with me to work, it has always used the right GPU. I get great battery life and never worry about it. With my 6990m there were several times when I just didn't realize it was still on the discrete and ended up eating half my battery.

So again, my advice TRY IT!! Don't just make an assumption based on a few other peoples posted experiences. You probably saw a lot of posts by me about my issues, and I had those issues, but my new unit is totally different and I don't have issues anymore.

 

Just my 5 cents but I'm on my second R3, the first was a nightmare of hardware issues and the throttling was really bad, I'd drop to P12 (50mhz) for minutes at a time playing farcry 2 and the temp wasn't even close to 70. Got dell to replace that one and now i have another piece of ****. So far two back-to-factory reinstalls, failed 2nd HD (just dissapeared one day), and last week the SSD started playing up so got dell to replace and re-install but their support was VERY bad (when I could understand their accent!). Telling me I don't have software support so they will not help install the default software I paid THEM for. I've only had this machine 6 weeks and here in the UK the price works out at close to $5K!
Yeah, advertizing this as a gaming machine is just plain wrong when their support tell you not to install games as it messes them up ?!
Not a happy camper right now but dell refuse to replace - wouldn't get away with that in the US where I've worked for the last 10 years (in IT!) but here in the UK = don't do dell people!

 

Sooo jealous , wish i could get dell to admit i have a second 'friday' machine like your earlier one but no dice - i've had my replacement so now it's just tough luck as far as they are concerned . QC is obviously down the pan at dell but I hope the original poster get's a good one!

 

I have got my m17x for 4 days now and also didn't experience any throttling in games. I will probably install the fix as a precaution as well, but so far so good! In gaming the highest temperature I've measured is 63°C, but according to hwinfo64 the clockspeeds didn't change from 620mhz.

 

^^That's good, that means you have a good mobo+card combination. Everyone's is different and you aren't one of the unlucky ones.

 

^This is exactly how I feel!^ For that much money all I should need to do is plug it in! I honestly think there should be a sticky Disclaimer warning people not to buy this at the top of this forum.

Thanks for all the feedback! I guess you guys are right and I should test it out a bit before returning it. I think I will most likely return it though even if I dont hit throttling issues just because the fact that Dell did this on purpose is preposterous and it really annoys me and I dont want to run into problems after I cant return it anymore(with my luck). I will post my results tomorrow after I run some tests. Btw what software do you guys use to check the temps and monitor the throttling?

 

i would disagree with that analogy. it completely doesnt fit. as far as my machine goes i havent HAD to open it. i chose to open it to install a second hard drive and the killer n wireless. it has performed near flawlessly right out of the box, but if you want to tinker (overclock) with it then you may have to tinker (repaste) with it. as far as elevating the back goes, then yes dell/alienware should have designed better cooling. with that said, every laptop ive ever owned has benefitted from having the back elevated if the intake is on the bottom.

im sure there are plenty whom have had problems right out of the box and they are a very vocal group, as they should be. there are plenty as well who havent had any problems and dont say anything.

 

i'd still say, beware of optimus, 2x pc's later i had to refund and buy the 6990M, i think if you have something like AIDA (as a windows gadget) you can always know which GPU is active and with a SSD and 750GB HDD, WLAN and min. brightness.. i can get 5 hrs+ 12-20 min of battery.....(objectively assessed)...not to mention, i only switch my GPU to the ATI when gaming, otherwise as i exit the game...i switch to the iGPU and help get my RIG to cool down faster

HOWEVER.... ATI's drivers are another issue.... you just have to find that one elusive driver that will work in harmony with all your hardware switches AND allow GPU switching ....mine was 11.9 on-top of the generic Dell drivers



PS i was always a NVIDIOT ..through and through, and the M17 was my first gaming laptop.... however the issues i had with optimus were downright exasperating..whitelisting, scripting, nothing helped.....

 

If you want to return it it's your choice, but at this moment the m17x is the best 17" notebook around for this pricepoint. Why are you annoyed without having even tested it Ok, before I got my m17x I was worried as well, but I haven't had ANY issues whatsoever. I only opened it to place a ssd and some ram.

 

IMO unless you live in a very hot area or in Asia you should not worry too much. Though many had reported problems we do have various fixes and you still have your warranty (to request a replacement card?).

^completely agree with vortex, best 17" laptop at present.

 

Okay, so how's this analogy?

"That is like buying a new car and being told that you can only drive faster than 30mph when the the temperature is below 47F unless you install a larger radiator or only drive it on days that the wind is blowing from the north at 35mph with gusts to 45mph since that will help it run cooler".

The bottom line is that Dell advertises the Alienware M17X as a top of the line GAMING LAPTOP but without "repasting, flashing the VBIOS or elevating the machine and only playing games while wearing a parka" it doesn't perform. Dell is aware of it and is only now "looking into it". Dell is a HUGE company and has a lot of brain power employed there, it's highly unlikely that this "slipped through the door" without someone knowing about it and the assumption was likely made that it's cheaper to let it go and only deal with a few squeaky wheels than to implement a fix before shipping the system. After all, enthusiasts are the ones that buy these so "they'll fix the problem themselves and save us a dime" is more than likely the decision that was made back at Dell HQ.

If I were Nvidia I'd be pissed because you can bet that the average joe reading about the problems the 580m has in the Alienware assumes the same problems exist in any laptop equipped with that card and it's probably costing them sales. Remember, for every person out there that "over clocks, repastes and reflashes" there are probably 100 that plug it in and use it without a clue as to why it doesn't seem to work like it should.

 

Good luck buddy! I'm in the sit you are hoping to avoid! I'd suggest installing anything you want like games ASAP and if you get ANY weird issues back it (in the UK you have 7 days to return any product purchased by mail, not sure of the laws in the US) and go for another manufacturer. In my job I have purchased over 900 laptops in the last 10 years and never had so many issues from a so called premium product - sad and dissapointed (and $4.5k down...)
I use MSI Afterburner for on screen display of temps, clocks, etc. And nvidia inspector (aparrently the only OC utility out there that can handle the different P states, but resident experts can advise on that one.

 

Just use normal games and such, I would NOT recommend Furmark, it is basically useless in terms of real information, your card WILL overheat, crash, and possibly die with Furmark, but all cards will. The Heaven benchmark is pretty good, 3DMark11, and your favorite games. If you don't get any issues after running those then it is unlikely you ever will.

Also, be sure to do all Windows updates and upgrade your drivers before testing. You might get BSOD if you don't get Windows updated, and the drivers will just improve your performance. The 290.53 drivers are the best right now, the 295 beta drivers tend to make Steam get error 51 and not work.

In the US it is 21 days for return or exchange, and you are always covered by the warranty which is generally pretty good. I honestly would not expect you to have major problems. If you have anything it will be the 63c throttle, which is fixed with a 5 minute vBios flash. As has been mentioned Dell has said that they will fix the 77c throttle, so that is really only a temporary concern.

 

I'm annoyed because this issue has been happening since the 580m came out and Dell is just now "looking into it". I am also annoyed that Dell has done this purposely in an attempt to force people to use their products as they seem fit. No other manufacurers have this problem, this is a Dell problem. No I haven't tested it yet and yes I may be a "lucky one" but still as a consumer I find this incredibly disturbing. I assure you that had I been warned about this I wouldn't have even considered this machine an option and I believe there are quite a few others who feel the same way. I just bought it so I am fortunate enough to still have options, but I truly understand how upsetting this would be to others who are stuck with it and are just trying to get help. I really hope for those people's sake that this issue gets resolved. My basic point is for something so expensive it should just work, and work right.

 

I play Crysis 2 on Ultra with 3D enabled, and I don't hit 77 degrees. Just try the thing out before you freak out about it. Everyone has already said, try it out, if you're not happy send it back.

 

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't planning in using furmark I'm just gonna run some games and see what happens. I live in Florida so it gets pretty hot here most of the time. I'll update it and get those drivers before any testing.

 

This is simply not true. Most m17x owners with the 580m don't experience any problems even without applying the throttle fix, repasting, flashing the vbios, putting it in a fridge etc. Those people (like me) can play any game to the fullest of the systems capabilities. So the whole racecar analogy and 30mph just doesn't apply for most people. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, there is a problem and it should be fixed. But unless you are going to overclock your system, chances are slim you will experience any issues. And people who are going to overclock are usually the ones who know to read into their stuff and know to apply the throttle fix. People who are going to max their clockspeeds also know to repaste the cpu/gpu. But to be honest, I don't know any gaminglaptop to which this doesn't apply.

Edit: And again, there is a problem. It should be fixed asap, but you are making it worse than it actually is.

 

To a certain extent, this is the nature of the beast with high performance gaming rigs. I am eagerly awaiting a fix from Dell but I am not terribly shocked that little things like this crop up from time to time. If you browse the forums here for any laptop you will find issues. The Asus owners who bought the first G73 fought dropped keystrokes and horrible touchpad problems for over a year before we finally got a fix and even then it wasn't perfect... just better. The 5870m would flip out all the time using current video drivers unless you flashed the vBIOS to a beta unreleased version. GPU overheats were common and tons of people had to repaste or RMA just to be able to play games after a few months. The first one shipped to me died after two days and the second one had to be RMAed twice for a total of ten weeks total without a laptop. The list goes on and on. I think this laptop is engineered as well or better than any high performance laptop on the market. This laptop doesn't have any show stoppers. I've seen machines that have flaws that prevent you from doing anything other than surfing the web that have to be sent in for RMA for weeks and some of those still come back not fully functional. If this one screws up, Dell will send someone to my door to fix it.

I've been playing games and watching 3D movies all week and my GPU never gets hot. It never throttles. I wouldn't consider myself an Alienware fanboy but so far this is a well designed machine that performs exactly as advertised.

 

It is right on the money. As I said, you must consider that the vast majority of people do NOT overclock their systems and merely buy what is advertised as the best "gaming" computer available. In way too many cases the computer fails to perform to the standards advertised. If it were only isolated incidents then it wouldn't be an issue, but it's not.

I agree with you that most people on THIS website are probably experienced enough, or have the desire to learn how, to re-paste and re-flash etc....but what about the thousands more that don't even visit this website?

I'm not making anything bigger than it is, and I'm not anti-alienware (I ordered one after all) or anti-Nvidia, but I am anti-getting screwed and that's what's happening to some folks that buy these things.

The bottom line is that if an individual purchases a top of the line gaming laptop he or she should reasonably expect to be able to play games on it regardless of the ambient temperature in his house and with the laptop sitting on a desk or other surface that, using the feet on the laptop, keeps it elevated enough to play said games.

 

Well I got the laptop and I must say for a refurb this thing is immaculate it LOOKS great and instead of the 900p screen that it was supposed to have it has the 1080p screen which is very cool. However, after just playing Crysis 2 for about 45 minutes I hit that throttle and this thing just died............didnt even last an hour. For the record 21 degrees ambient temp. Now Im really bummed out because if everything were working well then this would be such a beast but I do need a machine that works for longer that 45 min. so Im done with this.

 

^agreed 100%, but your analogy still comes off a bit tongue in cheek

sorry your machine didnt work out for you, but if you liked everything else about it then send it back and get the 6990. probably wont notice any difference just a few more or a few less frames depending on the game

 

I really wanted this to workout but no Im done. I went against my better judgement and bought this machine only to be shafted by silly Dell shenanigans again 10 years later. I just should have known better and I really wish I was warned. Now tomorrow Im gonna figure out what bs I need to deal with to get my money back from Dell. Also I will be losing money because Im gonna have to pay a restocking fee to return my ram and my Alienware bag.....Yeah I ordered the bag....This was a total mess. I really hope the other unsuspecting victims get a fix for this issue soon because this is simply WRONG! BTW I only hit the 77 degree throttle so the throttle fix would not have done anything.

 

Don't cut your nose off to spite your face......I considered doing the same thing you're doing but in the end decided having a quality laptop (which the M17 is with the 6990 based on all reports) was worth more than making a point that won't be recognized by a faceless corporation anyway. I think if you went with the same setup and a 6990m you'd be happy.

 

I really despise ATI drivers and for that reason I only buy Nvidia and have been doing so for many years and Ive been very pleased. Also I have a 3d vision monitor and glasses that would be useless with ATI so its not an option. The 580m doesnt have this issue in other machines, this is a Dell issue. Im not returning it just to try to prove a point I just want to be happy with something that is costing me a lot of money and this just isnt possible here.

 

Well.......good luck with whatever you do buy.

 

Sounds like you've had your mind made up about this before you even got it. Anyways, good luck with whatever you get.

 

There are only 2 choices right now...6990m or 580m. OP has already stated he doesn't want the 6990m, so the only choice is the 580m. No point asking if it was a mistake or not...there simply is no other choice if you want to get an Alienware and you dont' want to go with the 6990m (which overclocks like a beast and is pretty much turn-key)

BUT

because the throttling is an Alienware thing...it might make more sense for you to get an MSI or Sager with 580m option if you're so freaked out about potential throttling issues.

 

Aww too late then. I wouldn't advice against the 580m for the m17R3, having bought one months ago. I go the throttles but managed to overcome all of it by some fixes -even the 77 but I have to manage the temperature or get a bsod. Maybe repasting will help but that's when the warranty over.

Since you're returning, perhaps you could inform dell clearly the reason which plagued many 580 users. But I guess the act of returning is already a message itself. This thread is still useful to potential 580 buyers...

 

Just wanted to say that repasting doesnt void your warranty.

 

I guess I am a bit confused as to how it "just died". Did you hit the 77c throttle? Or did something else break? Did you do a vBios flash, did you try raising the back of the laptop a bit? Could you hear the fans running full out before it "died"?

As others have said it sounds like you made up your mind before you got it.

 

Yes I hit the 77c throttle, when I said it died I meant the performance. After 3 hours on the phone with Dell they said that it was a gpu failure and that they would repair it. They even offered to give me $150 back for the inconvenience which was tempting but I didn't want to take the chance of getting it "fixed" and still dealing with the same crap again knowing full well it has that limitation and then not being able to get a refund. It's not that I made up my mind before I got it at all, I was just scared. When I got it I absolutely adored it for the first 45 min. Then when it throttled I knew I wasn't one of the lucky ones. It's fine for some but for me it's just too much money to have spent only to worry about it all the time. I hope others see this thread as a warning and they know what they are getting into.

 

There are no "lucky ones." If it hits 77 degrees, then it will throttle. No if's, and's, or but's. Dell has stated they are working on this, as many have already said.

However, I don't see how people are getting their temperatures that high. You had it for 45 minutes and it hit 77 degrees? Did you start it up, put a blanket behind it, and run Furmark the entire time? I play HIGH end games, with a slight GPU overclock, and all I do is slightly prop the back up. No 77 degrees for me. The only way I've been able to get it to 77 degrees is by not raising it a bit, and running Furmark for like 10 minutes straight.

 

All I did was play Crysis 2 without the high res patch or ultra patch, just on hardcore settings for 45 min. 21c ambient temps on a large table with nothing else on it. Nothing overclocked at all. Although when they were doing the diagnostics they did say that the gpu was failing after they ran benches.

 

It sounds like you just got a failing GPU, if their tests show it is failing then it does actually have issues and is not representative of a working 580m. I would take the $150 and a new GPU. My first system had a defective 580m, and I got a new one and the difference is night and day. You might also try raising the back a bit, even like 1 inch can lower temps well over 10c, I have the Just Mobile Lazy Couch off Amazon, they are little rubber feet to raise the laptop and that has been all I needed with my new unit to avoid throttling (my new unit games at around 65c with 20% OC and stock paste, versus my old unit after repaste with no OC in the exact same conditions would be in the low 70's all the time because of a bad GPU).

You can do what you want, but a defective GPU is not representative of anything, just bad luck. With the in-home service you could probably have it fixed by the end of the week and be all set, your return period should be long enough to get the repair and the $150 and still have time to test before you can't return it anymore.

And again, the Dell rep has confirmed the issue is going to be fixed. He just checked in earlier today and said that it is in the process of being investigated and fixed. The M18x had the EXACT SAME issue and it got fixed through a bios update with the help of this same rep, so there is no reason to think it won't be fixed. Either way, at those ambient temps with a non-defective card I don't see you hitting it anyway. The real issue is people who live in hot climates, with ambient temps upwards of 30c or higher, who always throttle.

 

easiest way I have seen to drop temps easily is to just prop up the back of the machine a bit. It helps with airflow quite a bit. You might wanna give it a try. Here is my setup atm.

 

You are absolutely right. I think I was just acting out of anger and haste, but after reading this I called Dell back and I got the $150 and decided to give it another shot. I dont really plan on overclocking or anything and as long as I can get it so that I can just play my games as intended without having to prop it up or repaste or anything then I will be satisfied. The tech should come through by Monday or so for the latest at which point I will have about a week left to test it out and then decide if its gonna work how I want it to. If it doesnt work out then at least I know I tried, because it was already a sweet deal (providing it works) and the $150 made it sweeter.Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate it. I will let everyone know what happens.