M17x R3 with gtx 580 a mistake?

AMD 6990m has aced the mobile world! No throttling and no issues for moi.

 

And no 20k Vantage score! /jks

 

Do those numbers actually amount to anything other than show?
I've heard the same story over and over with these "mark" applications that they are not reminiscent of actual in-game FPS when compared to their direct competitors - Hence why I don't bother with them.
I test ingame FPS - In my eyes the only true method of finding which card is the better performer.

Given the choice between a "lower-scoring" card (HD 6990m) & the Gtx 580m with the throttling issues I'd take the ATI anyday.
Seems like another i5 vs i7 debate in some regards... and we all know where that went.

 

This M17xR3 is really a pain with the 580M, I would be a bit gutted if I have this laptop and such a powerful card and can't exploit it at 100% which means overvolt it and overclock it to 560ti level.
Stock clocks are OK but why would you stop to that if you can get much more easily ?
Dell should have thought about that before setting this thermal throttle limit...sounds silly from them.

Got the Dell 580m running in my MSI, can now play 825/1900 clocks for gaming with max temps under 81 degrees which is awesome..can't believe some of you can't do that with their M17xR3...

 

Guys chill I was only joking. I know that benchmark score serve nothing. I never experience any throttling when I game as I have the throttling fix and my temps never go above 71C.

Plus this isn't about which graphics card is the winner. It is about the implementation. The 580m is still quicker in any other context besides Dells

 

You wanna be very very careful, we have had upwards of a dozen people show up in the past few weeks with dead cards from the .92v vBios. I could overvolt and not have heat issues (even overvolted my current R3 runs under the top end throttle) but it just is not worth it. You get maybe a 10% boost off a stock voltage OC, and from all the dead cards I would say it dramatically increases your chances of a dead card. Especially if you don't have a warranty, you are taking a $600 gamble for like a 3 FPS boost.

 

Yep I know you're right Yoda but can't help myself

 

Yoda, that is the logical path...however, these guys want the highest possible benchmark scores. It's like driving a car around a track to get the fastest times, sometimes you crash into the wall. Its the price you pay as you push the envelope.

haha...spoken like a true enthusiast . Don't worry dude, just put aside 10 dollars a week into a piggy bank. Eventually, you'll upgrade to the nvidia 6xx or amd 79xx anyways

 

Hey do you guys reckon the the newest nvidia driver caused the deaths? It wouldn't be the first time. I mean it seems suspicious that all the deaths happened within a fortnight of each other right after 295.51 was released. Of course the 0.92v bios has something to do with it as well but I just think it is more than just coincidence.

 

Could be part of the issue. who knows at this point

 

On February 13th I received my m17x r3 and the gpu failed after 45 min. On the 14th I called TS and asked for a return but they offered me $150 to keep the machine and they told me they would send a tech out to replace my 580m on Friday the 17th or at the latest the following Monday the 20th so I agreed. I called on the 15th to check the status and they said the parts would ship out on the 16th. I called on the 16th to check the status again and they said the parts were shipped and that the service tech would call me and schedule either later that day or the next day which was the 17th. The TS lady even put me on hold and called the service tech to confirm that he would be calling me on the 17th to schedule my service. Today the 17th I called TS again to check my status and this time they said that the parts had not even shipped yet and that they would ship later today and that the service tech would contact me on Tuesday the 21st to fix it. This disturbed me greatly as I have been lied to repeatedly so at this point asked to speak to a supervisor. When I got the supervisor he then told me something completely different. He said that the parts were backordered for at least a month and he actually advised me to return the laptop.....What a freaking mess this was! Now I have no laptop for work and I have classes starting soon. I would like to buy another laptop but now I have to wait 30 days to make sure I get my money back to do so. I will NEVER again buy anything from Dell.

 

Bummer bro, just bad luck.

They are not lying to you, that is just all their systems show them at that level, higher you go the more info they can see. The 580m back order is a major issue right now, even brand new machines are being delayed 7+ business days, and the repair depot has a good 20 day wait for them.

Anyway, I had a VERY similar thing happen to me, and I had even ordered a brand new unit. 580m died within 24 hours, hit the 580m back order, tech ended up killing it completely trying to do a mobo replace, sent into the depot where there was a massive 580m back order. There was a time when I almost just got a refund and threw in the towel, but I persevered and am very glad I did, the M17x R3 is in a class above the other notebooks I have used (from HP Envy to Samsung, etc). In the end I just got a new unit as exchange (since they could build a new one and get it to me sooner than the depot could get 580m's back in stock). My new unit has been perfect and I am extremely happy with the machine.

You really don't have to wait to re-order, you can be sure you will get a refund, Dell is not exactly a fly-by-night operation. You can look at the options for yourself, if it was me I would get the RMA confirmed and then grab another unit off the depot, since you could have it within a few days.

 

That completely sucks...

if i were you, i'd ask them to get you a laptop with the 6990m in it. I don't think there is a backorder on those? or is there?

 

I really hope there isn't a month delay for the 580m. I'm moving out of the country next month and just can't wait on the delay. Chatting with some of the reps, they keep assuring me that my system is in production and will be delivered on the date listed. Looks like I'll be giving them a call next week to try and get some better clarification.

 

I wouldn't believe anything they say! They completely lied to me and told me that my parts had already shipped and they were on the way, when in fact they didn't even have them. I suggest you speak to a supervisor when you call.

 

I have had the same issue at one point involving parts and ended up getting them the next day. Their quality control sucks, but I have had better luck with their warranty than acer's which is non-existent as is HP's. I usually just explain the situation to the rep, and if I don't get the answer I ask to talk to a supervisor and work my way up the chain until my situation is fixed. Good Luck on whatever you decide to do next, but keep your cool. Remember your not the only person in the world having issues with your laptop, and they prob deal with hundreds of part/laptop replacements a week.

 

More like thousands, or even tens of thousands. These call centers and distribution networks service every Dell product. I live in a small town and we still have SEVERAL Dell techs that stay busy all year round.

It is natural to be upset, but try to put it in perspective. Also, understand that if you go buy an inferior product the only one you are hurting is yourself.

 

Based on all the posts about 580m problems in the Alienware I'd venture to say he already has purchased an inferior product. Dell needs to get off their tails and fix this sooner rather than later.

 

As far as I am concerned, any working laptop would be a superior product. Im still going to wait for my refund first as I have no reason to trust Dell and I wouldnt be surprised if they did try to rob me. I dont know what I find more disturbing, the fact that so many people have had a similar story or the fact that so many people have this "its okay;deal with it; its normal" attitude. This is the very reason that Dell gets away with this kind of crap. This is unacceptable behavior for any business regardless of if you are selling packs of gum or "high end" laptops. I dont know if its fanboyism or what but this is ridiculous how so many people defend them even though they are on their 2nd or 3rd machine. I really liked the laptop, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt and gave them a second shot. They failed miserably.

 

Thankfully Dell has recognized the throttling issue and committed to remove the throttle as soon as possible. However, that is not what happened here, this was just a bad GPU, which is not anything Dell can control. Sadly, the throttling issue has been blown out of proportion, and a lot of it was my doing. Since I have received an actual working machine I have not had any trouble with the throttle, even though it is still technically there. I will feel better with it removed, but technically if it never gets removed I doubt I would know the difference.

A big part of it is experience. Gaming laptops fail, a lot. For many people a prime selling feature for Dell is 4 years of world class in-home warranty that absolutely no other company comes close to matching (it was for me). I suspect you will learn this the hard way. Just go check the Asus or MSI forums, you will find people that have had 3+ failures just like here, the difference being they got to mail their laptops away and wait 2-4 weeks each time, where-as most of the time an Alienware is repaired within 48 business hours with service right to your door. Hardware fails on all laptops, the difference is what happens after, and generally Dell is the best out there at the moment. A back order is not something they can control, and while it is frustrating, it can and does happen to every manufacturer.

You should try to calm down and be rational about the refund, Dell doesn't need your money and would never try to "rob you". They sold hundreds if not thousands of M17x machines TODAY! Quite honestly, while on one level they want to retain you as a customer, if you want a refund they certainly won't resist, there are 20 people behind you ready to order and get in line, so one less guy in the wait list won't bother them. You can wait for the 30 days if you want, but there is no way I would.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to try next, my experience tells me you won't beat or even match the M17x, but perhaps just "not having a Dell" will make up the difference of an inferior machine in your mind.

 

And this quite honestly the problem in my opinion. Yes the warranty is superior to what is offered by other manufacturers, no question about that, but one shouldn't need that warranty within 24 hours of purchase. The fact that Dell gives off the vibe that "it doesn't matter, someone else will buy what you won't" only gives rise to the belief that they feel it's okay to push substandard product out the door because enough "suckers" will buy them and fix them over and over again that there's no profit to be made by expediting a solution to a known issue.

I ordered mine for two reasons, I wanted the warranty and I wanted the performance. That said, I'd have preferred a 580m as I'm unfamiliar with ATI products and don't know how to "play" with them as I do with Nvidia, but thanks to Dell's implementation of the 580m in the form of hamstringing it with asinine throttles I was unwilling to take a chance as I don't have the time or inclination to "fix" my brand new $2000 laptop just so I can use it for what I bought it for.

 

^^ Don't worry Slim, the 6990m is a great GPU and overclocks like a beast. We'll be more than happy to help you with yours

 

Thanks Slick,

I'm sure I'll need the help.

 

Customer Service that lied to me 3 times......and yes they lied, first TS guy said that he had the parts and it was going to ship next day, second said they shipped already and that it would arrive on schedule, third said it had not shipped as yet but would ship today....Only the supervisor told me the truth right before suggesting I return it. No thanks you can keep all that world class treatment. I will likely buy a clevo, a custom built msi from a builder, or maybe wait for the Samsung series 7 gamer. As far as I can see spec wise the msi and the clevos are not inferior to the m17x in anything, well except looks, its still one beautiful machine and by far the coolest looking. I did want to keep this laptop but after being treated that way I refuse to deal with that crap and if it is as you say and these things fail so often then I surely dont want that hassle on a regular basis. Ive poked around in the MSI and Sager/Clevo sections and they dont look like they have half the amount of issues in here to be honest.

 

like I said before your navigating a company that has to deal with the same issues like yours on a daily basis. That's the problem with big companies, they deal with so many issues that they can't spend all day on one persons problem. Like I said before as well, if you work your way up the chain as I had to do several times, it eventually gets fixed and they even throw in a bonus at times. Also remember Clevo has failure rates as well no machine is perfect. Since it seems your mind is made up, go to xoticpc and get a clevo. They give discounts to NBR members and some of their reps are on these forums. As for me, I'm out of this thread before I say something I shouldn't

 

I checked out XoticPC when I was still dead set on the 580m.......to get an 8170 specced out with the 580 was going to cost about $300 more than the Alienware........even dropping to the 6990 (which is considerably cheaper than the 580m through Xotic) I still came out approximately $125 more higher than what I got the AW for. That and the warranty were the selling points for me.

That said, until I see irrefutable proof that Dell has fixed the issues with the 580m in the M17 application I will continue to be vocal when folks ask which they should get.

Do Nvidia reps ever read or post in this area? I'm curious as to their view on the mess Dell has made of their card in the M17.

 

People need to realize that most of the time, the only people voicing their opinions are the ones that have had problems. You won't read many threads that talk about how they don't have issues. That's the purpose of these forums. If you have a problem, post about. Now you start to read about "all" the problems these cards have or these laptops have. If 10-15 people have problems, then that must mean all the thousands of other people that have purchased said product will have troubles. A few people have mentioned how great the 580m works for them, but some of you seem to want to overlook them as if they are the minority, while in fact, they may be the majority.

Every product has their bad batches. You might buy a brand new car and have transmission troubles. Does that mean every single one of those cars will get it? Doubt it. Now I might fall into the "minority" and have a bad 580m card. Electronics fail, thats life. Yes a $2000+ laptop should work out of the box, but so should a $40,000+ car. One tip I would like to share is to try to be polite when calling about warranty service. This is something I had to show my wife. If you're actually nice to people, you'll get treated a fair amount better. Express your frustration, but don't blow up on the person on the phone. They know you're upset because you had to call them in the first place. If you're getting nowhere with the first person, call back or ask for a supervisor. Moving up the chain does help.

Now if you're getting lied to about a situation, that is rediculous. You should mention that to the supervisor, perhaps he'll give you something to compensate. But people need to not try and not call and complain just to get freebies. I'm sure customer care gets flooded by these types of calls, and that may attribute to the attitude you get when you call. That's where being polite can come in handy. Calls are recorded, if you're polite and still getting attitude, that person will get talked to by supervision. Also, as mentioned above, perhaps the person you've talked to doesn't have all the info. It might just say something like in-process of shipping or shipped. The higher you go, the more info you get. The person I've chatted with has said not to worry, my laptop is in production. But that doesn't answer my question about my 580m being issued. I will call and try to speak with a supervisor on the issue.

Sorry about the long rant. Just wanted to voice my opinion.

 

^this

And I would like to add something. Not only is the majority of the vocal part on a forum the 'unhappy' part. But they also tend to post about 3 times as much as most happy users. A few weeks ago (before I decided to buy the m17x with 580m) I literaly counted happy and unhappy users, and guess what. There aren't as much unhappy users of the 580m as there are happy users. Even about customer service, most dell users are very satisfied with the service dell delivers. But a company as big as Dell has a lot of customers, so the unhappy minority will still be quite big in straight numbers.

 

I assure you they have as many, and in-fact more issues, but you will learn that the hard way I suspect. They also are not comparable, no other gaming laptop with a 580m has Optimus right now, so you are looking at a few hours battery max versus 5+ on the M17x. The other brands also are not nearly as well engineered, once you get a working M17x it really is a nice piece of design. Mine never gets hot, the top and keyboard are super cool, it is quiet, relatively light and thin. The whole package is a class above anything else I have ever used, and I have used most of the big names. If you need a gaming laptop then AW really is top dog. With all the discounts they are cheaper than most competition, and the warranty is worth its weight in gold.

Nvidia has made many a bungle on their own, go check out: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...nly-nvidia-confidential-error-message-14.html

580m's built to Nvidia spec and running Nvidia software show an "Engineering Sample" message when trying to use 3D. This happens on most 580m cards, but interestingly I don't think it happens on the M17x, but does occur on the M18x, Clevo/Sager, MSI, and other laptops. This is a MUCH larger issue than the 77c throttle, since you literally cannot use 3D at all period. The 77c throttle effects a very small number of people in hotter climates, or people like me that got a bad card/heat sink. Since I have had my new machine I never get close to 77c, and I regret making all the noise I did about the issue, since it has given people like you the idea that it is a world-ending issue. Again, Dell has confirmed it will be removed, they removed it for the M18x, they will remove it here, so even those few that do live in hotter climates will have nothing to worry about.

This is so true, when I had my broken M17x I made a lot of noise. Now that I got a new machine that is perfect, I haven't made nearly as much noise. I was the one that got the Dell rep involved in the throttling issue to begin with, because my initial machine was just unusable with throttling. I made threads about it, I posted about it, I made a lot of noise. Sadly, I appear to have created an idea that the 77c throttle is really a machine breaking issue, when it really isn't with a properly working M17x.

 

^^^Excellent. +Rep when allowed.

And I would add that most forum members are able to distinguish between users with a legitimate complaint and the trolls and drama queens and the wisdom to recognize when someone crosses over from the one to the other. There's been a lot of that going on recently with respect to the 580M throttling issue, together with an astonishing amount of misinformation.

 

I open every laptop I've owned the first day I received it to get to know the system better. Helps for future trouble shooting and got me where I am now Just my $0.02

 

I understand what you guys are saying an I'm sure a fully functioning m17 is an awesome machine which is why i wanted to get it fixed. The reason that I have decided to take my money elsewhere is because of their customer service or in my case the lack of customer service. I even sent an email last night with my story to Michael Dell in hopes of some sort of resolution and I was called today by someone who said he was from the corporate office. He said he could send me a replacement and I was willing to do it providing the specs were equivalent to the machine I purchased and if he would give me a new refund deadline starting from the ship date of the exchange unit. He called me back 10 minutes later and said that he couldn't get me a similar specced machine and that I should proceed with my refund. So that's it.

 

The very fact that anyone even called you back speaks volumes about Dell. They can't get you a similar machine because you purchased from the outlet and 580m's are out of stock everywhere so they can't just swap one in. Dell isn't expecting to have 580m cards in-stock until March 5th. As much as they want to help you they simply can't pull a card out of thin air, so basically they checked upcoming outlet units to see if they had a similar machine, they didn't, and they have no 580m cards to make you one.

You are crazy if you think any other company, especially smaller boutique brands, will try half as hard as Dell to make you happy.

 

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback on my situation. I really appreciate it guys and you all have given me much to think about from varying perspectives. I dont know for certain what I will end up purchasing in the future but I do know for sure that I will be participating in these forums. I dont really wish to argue with anyone so if a mod would like to close this thread then please do. Thanks again everyone.