M17x-R2 - Lack of Virtualization Support

I just received my 17" alienware laptop on Thursday of last week and already I've found a big enough reason to send it back - lack of virtualization (VT) technology support in the BIOS. I have BIOS vA02 - which is the latest according to the website. I run VMware workstations 7 and use several 64bit guests - etc - and none of those are available w/o proper BIOS support. I know the CPU - core i7-720QM and the intel mobile chipset supports it - but it's not configurable in the BIOS. According to the errors I get - I need to disable TXT - Intel Trusted Execution Platform and enable BIOS support for Virtualization for this to work. I've already seen/heard of the KB977206 work around for Microsoft - but that's only applicable to Windows Virtual PC that is available for certain versions of Windows 7. I have to get 64bit guest support working on this laptop - or I ship it back as defective.

Details:
Alienware M17x-R2
i7-720QM 1.6Ghz (2.8Ghz turbo)
8GB RAM
2x500GB RAID 0 7200rpm drives
ATI 4870 1GB Video
Win 7 64bit
1920x1200 RGBLED


Does anyone know of an estimated timeframe for releasing vA03 and if it WILL contain the necessary switches/options within the BIOS to enable proper virtualization? Is this one of the primary things being worked on for the next BIOS release? ETA? Seriously - I'll ship this laptop back as defective if I can't get a fix for it by April 18th! As I will refuse to keep this expensive laptop as it won't be capable of doing one of its primary roles - running 64-bit Guest OS's within VMware workstation 7. I bought this laptop for horsepower no necessarily for gaming!!

I've googled to find answers and just a few people are talking about it not working on the current BIOS rev. I've called support and all I got was the KB article above for Windows Virtual PC as the answer. BIOS A02 looks like it was released the first week of March - any ideas or sneak peeks @ what might be in A03? and when?

Thanks - sorry if this is in one of the monster sticky posts that are 500 threads long or more - I didn't see it if it was.

 

From what i have read vt hopefully will be in the next bios .But when that will be who knows.Look in members list for nagshead he is from Dell/Alienware & was dealing with this .So if i were you i would pm him & direct him to your post.But there is no known ETA for next bios .

 

nagshead stated that it'll enter A03, there are a lot of people on this forum who are eagerly waiting for VT support to be added. I wouldn't return the machine just yet though, i am sure they will figure it out. Although contacting the support and requesting this feature might help move things along.

 

Ok - thanks for the quick responses this morning. It's just making me itchy to think of the $$ spent on this system and one of my primary purposes for getting it is severely disabled. 21 day return policy will seem like a really short window when waiting for a new BIOS version to be released.

I just sold my 2 year old XPS M1530 and am missing it in some ways already. It surely could handle 64bit guest OS's just fine. I'm just really shocked that this killer rig is being held back. I asked the tech to log my call/ticket in as a problem with A02. Of course they don't offer any time frames for new releases - has nagshead indicated the wait time for A03?

I don't know what would even be the equivalent for this type of machine if I have to return it. I've had 4 dell laptops over the past few years and now that they retired/sunsetted the XPS line - I wasn't too impressed with the Studio XPS 16. But fully configured I'm still about $1,000 less for that machine w/720QM, 8GB 1333Mhz ram, single 500gb drive, 1GB video. But honestly - I hate the piano black glossy finish. I know people will jump all over me if I compare a Studio XPS 16 to the M17x-R2 that I have now - but in the Dell line - that's about all I've come up with. Alternative ideas anyone in case it's day 20 in my return policy and still no sight of A03?

thx

 

nagshead didn't indicate any dates for A03. i think we should apply constant pressure on the tech support to accelerate this

 

dont think its a good idea to wait till day 20, dell might try to buy time until u're out of the 21 days window. But of cuz the experience will vary from place to place, or it may depends on the individual u get.

 

mfractal - what's the trick in getting PM enabled? I just setup my account and it's not letting me send PM's to anyone! I'd like to send something to nagshead for him to get when he's online - but no dice.

Also - couple of odd ball things come to mind with this new lappy:

-mouse buttons on the touchpad - are you kidding me? stiff cuz they are probably still new - but can we get rid of the clicking sound that carries across the room?

-Screen diming - I've played with the AlienFX and it will dim within just a few min of my not touching the kbd or mouse and then when I do - it doesn't resume full screen brightness where it was prior to the timer! ideas?

-BD player has bunch of drive seeks - totally ruins any movie. I was watching F&Furious BluRay and almost every 3-4 min you can hear the drive spinning up and seeking and the movie pauses. Do I need a firmware update for the BD drive? can't see one on the site

-alien head/power button doesn't show drive activity when booting up until after getting into windows - is that standard? I like to see what the HDD is doing but seems to be software driven instead of an actual hardware activity light?

-is it possible or recommended to put on the ATI beta 10.3 driver overtop of the factory installed one? I've seen references that it takes guys days to get it and others never get it to work.

-Win7 64bit WEI was surprising. With 2x500GB 7200 rpm drives - why do I still only get a 5.9 on my HDD report? I've enabled write back cache on the Intel Matrix - but that didn't change the result any. Just getting the futuremark PCMark and 3dMark loaded for a real "benchmark" - but quickly checking the WEI - it seems low - what is everyone else getting on their RAID 0 systems as far as their WEI score? anyone above 5.9?

 

@TheShadow, you need 10 posts before you have PMs.
Screen dimming - just play with your power plan. it's there.
Alienhead does show drive activity when windows is booting as far as i remember.
ANd yes, you can install 10.3 on top of dell's drivers. you'll be fine.
I get 5.9 too on my raid array.. will pop the 160 gb x25-m that i just got today and see how that improves

 

Yeah, SSD is the way to go - but I ordered it with 2x500's in RAID 0 for the space/speed until the capacity jumps w/o breaking the bank on the SSD's. I'd love to have one for a boot drive - and 160gb is about as small as I'd go. I would certainly think your SSD would beat a 5.9 score.

Any luck on the BD drive seek issue or can someone point me to another thread? Does anyone else with an M17x-R2 and blu ray reader have that problem watching movies? I feel like I'm back in 1998 when I got my first DVD on a Gateway desktop and fought problems with it the entire time I had it (DVD play back that is). BD playback is one of the big uses of this machine when I get some downtime and am traveling with the family. Nice RGB LED screen and HD movies are stuttering to play rrrrrright.

 

My old RAID 0 was 5.9 too!
But the SSD should get you to 7.8ish!

 

The Shadow,

Welcome to the forums...

You have to have a certain number of posts before you get that ability. I can't remember the number exactly, but just post a few times and it'll show up.

The clicking is due to the stiffness of the parts. It took mine about a week to quiet down.

There are two things that may be causing this...

1) Make sure your power plan is set to High Performance.

2) If you have the 1200p CCFL screen you may be witnessing 'dynamic contrast'. Mine does this as well and at first it can be a little wierd.

But once you get used to it it makes for probably the best non-LED viewing experience out there. It darkens to make black appear richer.

Been here, had that, got the T-shirt! I was almost ready to have the drive RMA'd when I discovered that the Dell DataSafe Backup utility is causing the drive to malfunction. Uninstall it and the problem will go away.

WARNING -- Make sure you create your backup media set prior to uninstalling Dell DataSafe. Once it's uninstalled there's no way to create the media or reinstall DataSafe.

My R2 does this as well... My R1 did not. The power button and alienhead are supposed to come on at startup, but doesn't until AlienFX Controller loads. I've spoken with a few folks at Dell and this is supposedly a firmware bug with the AlienFX chip. When they release the new A05 Command Center the installer should reflash the chip and fix the issue.

I'm personally using the Dell-OEM driver until the next version of ATI CCC comes out. 10.3 is their first attempt at a unified driver and I'd recommend waiting a release or two for the bugs to be addressed. I've had no problems with any games using the Dell one.

5.9 is the absolute highest you can get with a mechanical hard drive in Windows 7. If you look at your detailed score, you will see that is the only thing holding you back. IMHO - WEI is a waste and gives no real indication of the actual performance of the machine. 3DMark Vantage is the preferred tool of choice.

Hope this helps.

- Denver

 

@DenverESullivan - wow man - you rock! thanks for the effort and the detailed response. I know my Q's were getting off thread topic - but I want to capture as much info on how this machine is running compared to other people's real experiences. I think I had my expectations placed a little too high for this machine - expecting it to walk on water I guess. I've seen some threads that talk about benchmarks and such - so I'll have to see how my #'s match up with other R2 units similarly spec'd with the futuremark #'s.

Also - I've seen the voltage adjustments for RAM and CPU - interested to find out what is possible with those as this is my 1st laptop to ever allow anything like that. I have a Q6600 2.4 OC'd to 3.2Ghz on air for the last 2 years and has been solid - but that's a desktop with an Antec 900 case a whirling tons of air around.

Thanks again for everyone's response. I use WHS and the backup process avail there - so Dell Datasafe may just have to disappear - particularly if it's messing up the drive. May be that will explain the random spin up's of the BluRay drive while I'm not even accessing it - like reading a webpage etc (of course disappears if I take the disc out). Movie or non-movie it will do it. So may be the datasafe software is scanning the bus and looking for changes in ANY type of drive - HDD or not. Very good info.

thx

 

-Screen diming - I've played with the AlienFX and it will dim within just a few min of my not touching the kbd or mouse and then when I do - it doesn't resume full screen brightness where it was prior to the timer! ideas?

I've got the RGBLED 1920x1200 screen - so CCFL shouldn't be the issue. I moved it to high performance right after it booted the first time. I get what Windows 7 is trying to do with the dimming - copy what Apple has going on their systems - dim a % when not active - but not long enough to lock or go to screen saver yet. Kinda cool - I get it. But even when I put the Fn + on the brightness to full - later when it decides to "dim" - no matter what my activity is - it doesn't come back to full brightness. I've checked power settings for AC & Batt and both are set to 100% screen brightness to make it easier to see where the problems are - but still no luck. What takes priority - the AlienFX settings or the power plan within Win 7? I can see that you could get them mis-matched and that could be a pain.

I just want it to be 100% brightness when I use it - dim to 70% or something when I haven't done anything and then go back to preset level when I click or type on the kbd. My XPS 1530 did this just fine for the last 7 months on Win7.....sigh. The joys of a new/different machine.

thx

 

You will find AlienFusion and Windows power management don't always play nice with each other.

If they get totally out of sync and confused, only option is to uninstall and reinstall Command Center.

FYI - Dell DataSafe is causing your drive spinups. I even had issues on mine getting games (copy protected) to install which is what made me think the drive was defective... The entire culprit was DataSafe. I found out the cause by accidentally venting to our corporate Dell rep - he knew immediately and said that most laptops with it have the same problems you're seeing.

 

Guys, the M17x R2 does support virtualization. I published an article on support.dell.com on how to get it to work for now.

http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?c=us&cs=19&dl=false&l=en&s=dhs&docid=82F19FD4DF3C454AE040AC0A65E96C3D&doclang=en#1

For TheShadow, have you already tried this and found that it isn't working? What type of virtual PCs are you running? This will be fixed in a future BIOS, but I don't have an ETA for you yet.

 

Did u actually verify that you can run x64 guest OSes in vmware/virtualbox and such ?

 

That's exactly the line that tech support gave me.....but if you follow through the thread - I'm not that interested in using Windows Virtual PC - too limited. I need to have 64bit support in multiple OS platforms. I run VMware workstation 7 as my main vm environment. First off - I need to get a demo setup of Windows Small Business Server 2008. That by default only runs in 64bit. I need to show a client the server install and have a 64bit client attach to it within active directory. CentOS 5.4 64bit is also another environment I run a lot of. Stuck yet again - can't run.

See the screen shots - one is of Vmware showing the error - the next is continuing anyway to start up the vm - then it fails with the error that I'm attempting to load a 64-bit application, however this CPU is not compatible with 64-bit mode. Well, we all know that it's 64bit capable - the host OS is Win7 64bit! But w/the limitations of the current BIOS version - I'm up a creek.

You refer to the fact that A03 won't fix this and may be not until A05? What is your source? I'm still in my 21 day return policy - and that's just not acceptable in my mind. At the rate they are releasing updates - it might not be until late summer/fall time until a fix like that would be out. That's like buying a porsche and getting told that you won't be able to get the turbo to work for a few months - we know it should work - but don't try doing more than average driving. Poor example- but it's a show stopper for me @ this price.

 

The only piece of advice to give you is to RMA the R2 well before your 21 days.

You do not know if the R2 will ever get Vt support. I know nagshead said it will be in the next BIOS release but do you really want to risk a $2k plus investment on someone's word?

I would return it and just re-order once the proof is in the pudding, so-to-speak

 

Agreed with Sleey0.

Now, as far as that link posted above, "The R2 doesn't have that option in the Bios because it is always enabled"... I'm sorry, what? Please verify this.

If it were "always" enabled, aside from 64-bit OS support, you would also be able to chose the number of cores given to the VM with certain virtual machine emulators. This is not so.

We need, not just the ability to turn off Intel Trusted Execution Technology, but also the ability to Enable/Disable Intel Virtualization just like it was with the R1.

 

Yup - you've hit it nice and square on the head. Open up the options on the BIOS and I've got a keeper system. Then in my mind I can leverage the system for some entertainment and some serious horsepower on the business side to run several VM's - 64bit and all and not slow down.

Is that too much to ask for north of $3K in a laptop?

 

I think it was just overlooked. Everything is already in place hardware wise so it wouldn't surprise me that it was missed.

I do believe that they will implement it eventually but i wouldn't bet on it being soon.

 

So - to sleey0 and others that have been helpful - what recommendations do you have for something in the interim? I took up a client's request to buy my Dell XPS m1530 and it's been gone since mid-Feb. I placed my first order for an M17x-R2 and had to cancel it - replaced another order just a week later and finally got my R2 on April 1st. I think at this point I'll call Dell and state that the laptop is defective - no way am I paying a 15% restocking fee @ these prices - and ship it back.

But once that lovely black package leaves my house - what do I get? As I said earlier - I did have a quote from Dell for Studio XPS 16 w/i7 720Qm, 8gb ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive, 1GB video and may be even the RGBLED screen - can't remember..... Is that the best on Dell's site? Or do I place an order for an Alienware m15x? Do the 15" alienware laptops share the same base for their BIOS releases as the 17"? Or do they have the VT stuff all taken care of? Anyone with knowledge or hands on with an M15x-R2(?) care to comment?

I've looked at the HP Envy 15" - not a fan of external blu-ray - but they do have some decent specs on their laptop. Other manufacturers I'm less familiar with. I would still like to stick with Dell for the most part. I've got an HP Compaq Elitebook for the "office work" a.k.a the full time job - but that's nothing to brag about. I was drawn to having 2 HDD's in a system so that I could eventually afford an SSD boot drive - yet still have tons of internal speedy access like with a 500gb 7200rpm drive as a secondary. yes, I do run WHS @ home with 6TB online - but funny enough - my laptop isn't always on the home network and with me as I do consulting on the side. 128GB or 160GB SSD just makes me cut out too many options as the only drive. I'm rambling - but I think some may appreciate the frustration. Made plans to spring from my XPS m1530 and now I'm feeling like I'm left hanging and options aren't looking good.

Thanks for your comments and recommendations in the prior posts.

 

do you absolutely have to run your guests at 64 bit ?

 

One of my consulting clients right now wants me to work up a small network demo via my laptop to show him what it would be like if I upgrade his small accounting office from SBS 2003 to SBS 2008. SBS 2008 only runs in 64bit - at least the first server install - you can have a 2nd 32bit server install for other services - but the first install is 64bit - mandatory.

Is there a work around or another possibility? probably - I could run it on my desktop and then while @ his office - remote desktop back to my desktop and get into the vmware environment and show him several things and improvements over SBS 2003.

I just don't think I should be "settling" for anything on this system. It sounds pretty positive that Dell might release the BIOS fix for these problems - but you never know. I've sent a PM to nagshead and not heard from him and he's not posted anything on this thread...

I was just so shocked to run into that problem within 24 hours of unboxing the system that I've been laser-beam focused on getting it fixed or learning as much as I can about it as the 21 day clock is ticking.

Linux Mint 8, Unbuntu - etc - all run great with the 32 bit installs. I've imported the XP mode VM from Win Virtual PC into VMware 7 and it runs great too.

 

yeah, i agree, in your case it's definitely settling and you shouldn't after paying so much for the laptop.

 

Maybe worth a pm to erawneila

 

Who's that?

 

Dell/Alienware quality guy

 

He posted back on page 2 - he gave the link to the M$ KB article about the new update for Windows Virtual PC - but I explained after his post that I really am expecting 64bit support to work on Guest OS's and until the BIOS gets the right options to enable VT support - his suggestion doesn't apply.

I would like for someone - erawneila or nagshead to give their $0.02 on the timeframes of BIOS releases. I'd even be game to try the beta release of A03 if someone could send it to me to see if it's there.

*sigh*

 

Thanks for the detail... We will be adding the virtualization and trusted execution options to the BIOS. Those items are on the list of enhancements and as someone mentioned in this thread, it was an oversight during development. Unfortunately, I don't have an ETA for the fix, but it will likely not be until the version after the next release.

 

@erawneila
So - what would you recommend if I looked at the latest version of the M15x-R#? Does it have a more stable/feature enabled BIOS set with the i7 720QM? I guess I'll be contacting someone @ Dell to return this as defective - but waiting 6 months or more before getting another laptop is too long. (arbitrary timeframe in my head until they actually get the BIOS fixes done right for VT support)

Do you know if CService will help facilitate "swapping" an M17x for an M15x and refunding me the difference? Or will it be a full out return? Any tips on making sure they don't stick me with a 15% restocking fee? In my mind it's clearly defective - despite claims that it may be fixed in the distant future - it doesn't function for what I need it to do now.

thanks

 

Well - last word I've gotten on this is a PM from erawneila and nagshead. Apparently nagshead has different duties now and is passing the baton to erawneila to do the digging on the BIOS options and ETA. He offered to let me know what he finds out from engineering.

So I'll probably call customer service and see what my options are. I am leaning towards the M15x - but some of the appeal gets lost as I can't get the RGBLED screen. That screen is available in a 16" format for the Studio XPS 16 if you get the upgrade.

Anyone care to offer up a link to a good review of the M15x-R1/2? Is it comparable to match up the M15x to a Studio XPS 16 with same CPU, RAM, etc? I hear there are cooling problems or rather it just runs hotter than the Alienware laptop line. How are the screens in comparison? 15.6" M15x screen with 1920x1080 or the XPS Studio 16 w/RGBLED 16" @ 1920x1080? I don't have a way to compare them as I don't know anyone in my area the owns an Alienware - 15" or 17" for that matter.

The costco M15x option is appealing - but it leaves off BluRay and only comes with the 1600x900 screen - 2 big options for me that I want to upgrade. Anyone know of other configs from Costco or others that are pre configured - but done right and a great price?

 

I want to add my opinion here also, I think, even if it was a oversight, its a HUGE deal for some of us. I do development, and I have to now cross-compile libraries on my desktop and then bring them over to this via network or usb.

While that sounds like no problem I need to make sure I have 2 enviroments now that are in sync where if this had those options already I nwouldent need to go through all that extra.

I honestly dont see how something as basic as this can be overlooked and would appreciate a ETA.

 

+1 on that ETA demand!

 

I agree with you all.I mean its not rocket science, that needs to be implemented into the next Bios asap.& NOT the following Bios its high priority Dell/Alienware will lose customers over this .Yeah a definite ETA is not much to ask is it?

 

The problem is if A03 is essentially done now and is in testing before release. If that's the case and we have to wait for A04 then I really hope they fast track it and the ONLY thing different from A03 is the addition of VT options so it can pass QA and be released as quickly as possible.

 

Hmmm... I'm having this deja-vu feeling... Isn't this the sort of thing that was heard when A02 was about to come out? What is in A03 that is more important than this? Last I heard everything else was working quite well, no?

 

Shouldent need to wait, they knew about this before A02 was released and have had PLENTY of time to get it in A03, if they dont its just shoddy workmanship. You would honestly expect a top end system to include something this basic

 

I am glad that VT is not very important to me. lol

I am sorry and feel for you guys that need it. Should have made sure that it was an option before you purchased it though.

And Dell tries but sometimes updates that are promised come late and, occasionally, do not come at all.

 

How, the processor supports it, the R1 supports it......there was no reason to honestly believe that the R2 BIOS wouldent.

 

Well, did the R1 support it from the get-go? Or was it added later?

If it was available from BIOS A00, then yes you would have been duped by Dell I suppose.

Didn't think of it that way....

 

Yeah, what gives? Is there some advantage to having VT on an Alienware laptop?

At most you can just use a virtual client to showoff to someone that you can run multiple OSes from within Windows. If you try playing Direct3D games or convert videos to other codecs it would be best to just use the OS that came with your computer.

That's how I see it. Anyone have other ideas what having Virtualization would be useful for on a client machine like an Alienware Laptop?

I mean, what else......Use OSX? Linux? I am just not so sure the use in resources is justified for everyday use. Just trying to find out what else it could be used for.

 

64-bit Guest OS and the ability to specify which core runs what. For myself it was never a deal breaker, but since everything in the hardware supports it and it has no effect on gaming (unless the VMs are running) there isn't a reason to not have it.

 

For non developers it is a non issue. But for me it is pretty important feature as sometimes I NEED 64 bit virtual machines to run certain stuff.

 

I would go for a workstation, like the precision M6500 for example, if I was going to use it for work-related stuff (not to mention that I am sure that precision will run games just fine )

For work I'd rather have that than a flashy gaming computer such as the M17x. lol

 

idk, the more I use my R2 the more I like to use it for work related things over my standard desktop. All the flash just makes it more fun, and when I'm tired of working I simply start fraggin' people from the same system. Rather convenient, lol

 

Yes, it did according to AW support when I talked to them about this.

 

I use my AW for both fun and work. I am a UNIX admin and developer. I have a workstation at work that I do development on but like to have a resource at home also to do the same, and it would be preferable to have both enviroments the same.

As it stands now, I have a 64bit enviroment at work, and if it was supported I could have a identical enviroment in a VM on my R2, but now I have a 64bit enviroment at work and a 32bit enviroent in a VM on the R2, I have managed a cheap (as in it works...sorta) work around. I cross compile the libs I need on my workstation and then transfer them to my VM via network or USB.

The situation is far from optiomal, but it works for most things, but there is always that 32 vs 64 issue that crops up when cross-compiling a binary,

Is that normal everyday use for 90% of the poeple that own one of these, probably not. Most people buy something like this as a pure gamers rig, but I use it as a gamers rig and work related.

I will give you a example, next week I will be in Chicago at a conference, I will have this system with me, both to game with in the Hotel AND maby get some work done. In this case it would be most beneficial to have true 64bit VM support

Is my case a rare one, probably, but look at it this way. The processor and all the hardware supports it, what reason is there NOT to include it ?

Was it a deal breaker for me enough to return this...nope, the pros definately out weighed the cons on this, but again, I see no reason why was not included.......chalk it up to human error...it happens....I have pulled a few zingers in my job....all I want is it rectified asap.

I can understand some engineer saying...Damm...no VT.....missed that, well, it IS primarially a gaming laptop and some manager in a office looked at the option of redoing the BIOS and slipping ship date by a month or so and said "yea, its a game laptop...put it in later......"

 

There is no reason that Dell couldn't include support for it. Correct 1000%.

I still would have bought something else if I knew I would be using it for work/business/travel/etc AND leisure.

There are other systems better suited for an all-around solution where as the AW is more a power and gaming solution.

 

Dont think I was duped intentionaly, I really believe was a oversight...granted a BIG one, but a oversight non the less