M17x-R2 - out with HD5870

Everything looks good on paper. TDPs have been inaccurate in the past. I'm not going to continue arguing this, though.

 

this story begins to freaking me out, but whats freaking me the most is that my replacement order is in pre-production for 6 days now.

 

On paper yes but in real life temps for the G73, M870CU and M15x have proven otherwise. If you were to make the clocks the exact same I would assume the 5870s would be cooler.

 

Hey not to be a thread hijacker but I just wanted to let everyone know who's waiting for the cf 5870 to come out, that clevo will be releasing their x7200 in July. It's going to be a desktop processor (980X) with dual video cards. Either the cf 5870 or dual nvidia 480M GTX or other video options. Here's the link

Clevo x7200


I've been waiting since november for dual direct x 11 cards and was hoping the M17X R2 would be released with cf 5870 setup. Well now that I learned about the x7200, I think it would be far better gaming laptop if you can give up the lit up keyboard and flair that the M17X has.

 

TDP Is generally a measure of average real work thermal design power. It's possible to go *over* this yes.. but not likey. If the 5870 had a higher TDP than the 4870 I'd be inclined to agree, but it doesn't. Using the same tests it manages 5W less. I don't care how you present it, it will run cooler against a 4870 in the same situation. There's no magic application where the 5870 is going to create *more* heat than a 4870 even with a process reduction and two fewer memory controllers.

Also,


How come it's using the exact same cooler If this thing is so much hotter? Wouldn't dell consider making it all copper at least if they've waited this long to release them?

here's a 4870 for comparison



No one still answered my question why the M15x's cooler which was originally desgied withing a 39W envelope is superior to the M17x's solution.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

BTW, everyone here understands Dell isn't actually making/producing/manufacturing anything right?

 

so, your suggestion is that, the solution, is some sort of secret testing without using a better heatsink to correct heat issues with a 5W less TDP GPU than the previous generation, that runs on a 39W TDP heatsink in a smaller laptop without issues. The M17x uses individual cooling heatsinks for each GPU, and both have their own fans and are seperated by half a foot of each other. If you can't cool one 5870, you're not going to cool the other. Since they *can* cool one 5870.. im going to call BS.






I'll stop aruging now however, for the sake of my sanity

 

Not arguing, if you want to post funny pics that's up to you.

It's always about the money and manufacturing 2 different thermal solutions for the M17x would cost more money. Same as manufacturing a second type of 5870 for people who don't buy crossfire setups. That would not make any sense.

 

right, but they didn't, the single 5870's do have a CF connector, and yet at least half the people in these threads believed they would not come with such. I still don't understand the arguing over the 5870 running hotter. Even if you're arguging that TDP is a generilization, you still have to somehow argue that the 5870 ran cooler under the same loaded conditions (in CF, since AMD qualifies them for CF) as a 4870, but somehow runs hotter when you put it in a M17x. That is what doesn't make sense to me. The M17x does not have a button Dell presses that instantly makes them run hotter. AMD has already done the testing to qualify the GPU's run in crossfire and still manage 60W TDP.

 

Them running hotter is not specific to the M17x. They simply run at higher clocks. Like I said if the 4870 and 5870 ran at the same clocks I'm sure the 5870 would run cooler.

 

simply by having a smaller nanometer process makes the 5780 run cooler at a given clock speed than the 4780. This means makers can push it at higher speed for even more boost.

 

If they were on the same micron process sure.. but they're not, the 5870 is on a 40nm process, the old 4870 is on the 55nm process. The 5870 is only running 150mhz faster on the core/shaders. So it's not like they doubled the clock speed. It also has two fewer memory contollers to produce heat, and the GDDR5 only runs 112mhz faster than the GDDR3 in the 4870. All of which I've said many times before, it still hasen't be answered how this card runs without 0 heat issues on an inferior heatsink in the M15x, but somehow there's a problem with bigger heatsinks, and deticated fans in the M17x.

 

That's a lot. 150Mhz on the core of a 4870 would be considered a massive over-clock.

 

36% core clock increase for a 27% die size reduction, and similar voltage reduction *with* better idle heat control seems pretty resonable to me.


and again.. what about the 5870's in the M15x's that people run without issue? Are those cards magicly cooler than the ones Dell's using in the M17x? That system uses a lot more heat pipe routing than ours does, *and* it has a smaller surface area for the fins.

 

I would have to personally examine an m15x in action with a 5870, to figure out.

I have heard as a recurrent theme on this board, them15x has an awesome cooling system, that might be a factor...

 

Dell doesn't seem to think so... apparently, the 5870 is too hot for the M15x's 39W TDP heatsink. Which is why it has the 39W 5850. The M15X to 5870 thread is *full* of people with very cool running cards.

 

lol...point taken. again, I would need to see a unit in action actually running a m15x. Anything I say otherwise is speculation and guessing...

 

http://img411.imageshack.us/i/45082335422931131da5o.jpg/
to me that ^ looks smaller or at the least a less effecient design than this:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9413/cooling.jpg

 

I wasn't trying to say that the 5870s are too hot for the M17x. There is more than enough head room there for the thermal design. My point had to do with the fact they run hotter than the 4870s because the existing 5870s have proven that.

 

There's 0 evidence to support that. The very first 5870 equipped M17x's are just now arriving at owners doorsteps. You can't examine A completly different cooling system designed for lower power GPU's and use that as a point to prove they run hotter.. Until you point me to the side by side comparison of a 5870 in a M17x to a 4870 in a M17x there's 0 way for you to prove your point.

 

No I was just talking about the card and the proof was the heat is was producing over multiple types of systems.

 

I'll post up my temp ratings when I get my m17x, there is about a 5-10 degree variance between systems but we will know soon enough.

 

Such as? Again, side by side comparisons of systems with a 4870 and 5870.


Also, if you're not saying they're too hot for the M17X what were these post arguing that they run hotter in reference to?

If they don't run cool enough for dell to take it's sweet time trying to figure out how to make them run cooler, but they're not too hot to run. then what's the problem?

thanks.. but it takes many systems to average the results under exacting benchmark situations to determine which runs hotter that way. Unless it's fairly clear cut and there's a 10C difference.

 

My M17x is already boxed up and being returned tomorrow. All I can say is trust me.

 

Do you remember the initial problem when the M17xR2 came out? It wasn't cooling.

 

I trust you, I just don't agree with you XD

 

question what is better dual 4870 or single 5870. im wondering cuz im getting my m17x r1 replaced

 

I just got off the phone with Alienware Tech, and take it for what it's worth, but this is what I was told.

He is well aware of the problems that some of us have had with the 4870's, and that they are in fact testing the 5870 in CF, and that the delay was due to physical room in the second slot for the card and cooling.

That's what I was told. If anyone has theirs open, feel free to do some serious measuring. I'd be curious to see if there is any merit to this. If not, I'll open mine and take a look.

 

Room in the 2nd slot? The cards are identical in size. Seems like a b.s. answer.

 

This is all giving me a giant headache

I'll call Dell and see if they sell seperate 5870 cards, cables, heatsinks, etc

 

Please people stop posting the stupid things that AW and Dell reps tell you. It's ALL BS.

The cards are the same size and the cooling is the same on both cards. They just make up stuff to get rid of you or try selling you on something else.

 

Raw superior performance, the CF 4870. For great performance but ready for the future, the single 5870...

 

CF 4870 for benchmarks and either one for playing any game that exists on high settings. However, the 5870 is the only one of the two that will do dx11.

 

He wasn't trying to sell me anything. He wasn't trying to get rid of me. I never said that I fully believe him, I did preface what I said, but he's not some sales rep. He knows about the issues with the 4870's. Obviously there is some minute detail about installing the cards that we are not privy to.

To take an attitude with me for reporting useful and new information is really uncalled for. If you have the definitive answer, please share. Until then, nothing is proven. I'm not here to create a reputation, I am just trying to help out with the situation with word from a fairly reliable source. If this was just a sales rep, who didn't understand what I was talking about, sure, I wouldn't even say anything.

I'm going to be opening mine back up tonight, and I'll see if I can accurately measure around the two slots. There are a lot of issues with doing this, so it's hard to come up with a definitive answer, but it is not unreasonable to assume that there is something to this answer.

 

Exactly, it is. That's all anyone is going to get out of a Dell rep regarding when xfire'ed 5870's will be released, because none of them really know. People need to realize that and stop posting what their reps tell them concerning this subject because it's nothing but hot air.

 

Appreciated, but as many stated before; Rule nr1.

 

Yeah, rule n1: NEVER trust an AW or Dell sales rep.

I am not trying to be mean and I did not want to put you down but you are wrong on the whole line. You are not reporting useful information. You are reporting crap and useless info.

In SLI and CF configs both cards ARE THE SAME... You could put one in the slot of the other one without any issues and vice versa as many times as you want.

 

no way bro, it's legit.. but then again, take it for what it's worth, and it was just what I was told.

 

In fairness, weren't you asking for dual 5870s on a system that you're getting as a warranty replacement? They have no incentive to help you with that / provide you a free upgrade - their only obligation is to provide you a replacement system with 4870s.

So to me, it sounds like it was any answer to accept what they're offering you now...

 

How come everyone just ask these reps dates alone? Why is the immediate follow up to their "Oh, umm, 5870 crossfire is coming May Eleventy-seventh!" not "What is your source for this info?".

 

if everyone just expect CF to be out in June there would be no more arguments. if it comes out before june then great, otherwise expect 5870 CF in June. that way people will stop asking, "when is 5870 CF coming!" if it doesn't come out in June, then it would be a useless upgrade because by then more powerful setup's will almost be ready to be released.

 

Agree. If Alienware doesn't put CF5870's in their systems by mid June they should stop trying.

 

Yep agreed. The GTX480M SLI will come soon enough therefore there won't be a need for 5870 CF.

Now the question is what will be coming after the 5870CF to compete with the SLI 480M GTX?

 

I wonder if the X7200 from Clevo will be cheap plastic or metal? The picture of the palm rest looks like brushed metal but ya never know. If it's metal, I'll be tempted..very tempted.

 

After the 5870CF? The CF is not even out yet, and who knows if it will ever come, so there's no after at this point.

 

Was there this much wait for the CF4870's?

 

Looks like brushed cheap plastic to me like was on the M860TU.

 

Yeah that's what I'm expecting but I'd love to be proven wrong by Clevo. I just don't get why they choose to build laptops with such crap plastic and paint? They obviously have the talent to design nice internals so it wouldn't take much for them to build a unibody metal notebook like the HP Envy. Even Alienware needs to ditch the plastic palm rest, it feels out of place with the aluminum chasis.

RGB LED + fully metal body + dual video cards and a good looking design is my dream machine. Alienware is the closest so far. If Clevo pulls a miracle and makes X7200 metal, they'll have my money.

 

Yeah i know i have been thinking about it myself also, going desktop procs on a laptop are the only way. I want to be proven wrong by Clevo, a metal palm rest looks awesome.

 

I'm getting sick of waiting so I have a question. I don't do heavy gaming so would a m17x with CF4870's be fine for gaming for the next 3-4 yrs?