M17x-R2 - out with HD5870

Thats weird, because warhead typically runs better than original.

 

Warhead runs like butter for me at very high settings and 2560x1600.

 

you can use the démo

 

maybe i should patch it

 

You guys should inspect your new systems carefully. I was looking over mine today and noticed the paint on the front was about to chip off. I barely touched it with my finger and off it came revealing this:





I already e-mailed my rep. asking for a replacement system and/or refund.

 

Are you referring to the scratch on the aluminium cover? Mine is silver so I don't think there's an extra layer of paint. It feels and looks like aluminium surface.

 

So much for anodized aluminum......that is paint indeed it looks like

If it were anodized, it would not be able to just chip off

 

it should not be a common issue, right?

 

Yup the aluminum is the one that has the paint missing. I saw it when I was cleaning the dust off my computer earlier today, it looked uneven. So I ran my finger over it and it came right off lol! Honestly, given the paltry 10% gain in performance over the dual 4870s, the trade offs for the 5870s are not worth it!.

Here's my pros and cons:

5870s:
-------
Pros:
1. DX 11 support
2. 10% faster (see explanation at bottom)

Cons:
1. Run very hot! I was seeing 95C in furmark and 85+ in vantage.
2. Dell restricted vbios that limits you to old unoptimized Dell drivers.
3. More costly than 4870s.

4870s:
-------
Pros:
1. NO driver restrictions. You can use any reference ATi driver for up to date driver support.
2. Performance is neck and neck with dual 5870s but they run quite a bit cooler (I measured 10-15C cooler).
3. Cheaper.

Cons:
1. No DX 11 support.


Botomline: If you have dual 4870s right now, you have absolutely no reason at all to sidegrade/downgrade to dual 5870s. The list of cons is greater than pros vs the 4870s and IMO doesn't make them worth the headache. The performance difference in games just isn't there. Since my 5870 xfire system already has chipping paint, it's given me the perfect reason to send it packing and keep my other R2. Right now I'm about 70/30 in favor of keeping my existing R2. The only reason I'm not 100% yet is because I'm holding out faint hope that Dell addresses the restrictions on the 5870s but the chances of that happening are as good as me winning the lottery I think. But you never know, sometimes even a company like Dell can surprise you.

*To address the 10% gain: I noticed that when I had the R2 with 4870s next to the R2 with 5870s and I was benching Dirt 2, when I went outside the trailer to where the crowd was, the R2 with 5870s would get a bit choppy where as the 4870 system was smooth as butter. Now despite posting higher benchmark scores, I found the actual gameplay to be smoother in that particular game with 4870s. In other games, if the FPS counter wasn't there, I'd never have been able to guess which was the one with 5870s.


Edit: Just because I like the NBR community so much, I'm going to film both systems running side by side in Dirt 2. I'll also put up the Crysis Warhead benchmark and let you guys see the actual gameplay difference--there's hardly any.

 

Thanx for making a great comparative summary!
+1 rep.
So, are you keeping the old system? Waiting for 480M's? Clevo perhaps?

 

So much for the long wait, +1 Joker.

I wonder if the temperatures would be better if ATi used the same chip for the 5870s, but with a 256 bit bus and GDDR3.

 

They would, GDDR3 runs cooler.

 

I'm going to see what the rep says when he gets back to me. If he offers compensation + a new system, I might keep it but I'm still doubtful about that. Like I said in the comparison, the cons for the 5870s are just too much. Even if the vbios restrictions weren't there, the fact that they run so damn hot (my fans run louder than the R2 with 4870s) is off putting. If I send it back, I'll stick with my existing R2 with 4870s and then get a new system when SB hits.

I think the best option would have been to use the 5870 core, 256 bit bus and GDDR3. The card would've run cooler and stomped the 4870s. Unfortunately, for whatever reason (I'm guessing $$), ATi opted to go with a cheaper 128 bit bus + gddr5. Bad decision.

 

I think I may cancel my order and just fork out the cash for a system (hopefully an Alienware) with dual 480M's if they turn out to be as beastly as they seem right now. This news about the 5870's is very disappointing.

 

and you think the 480Ms will be better? The M17x was designed to work with dual 50W GPUs. I want to see how it will handle dual 100W GPUs.

 

Yeah that's an impossible task. They'll even have trouble adding a single 480M. Dell needs a new M17x that's bigger and badder than the current one to handle dual 480M and I'm sure that's been in the works for a while now.

 

Hello Joker!
I just don't get it: Dell/AW are selling an anodized colored aluminium and then sending to the costumers a painted aluminium? it's not some kind of a fraud?

 

For me the decisive point is the temp. 95C is overkill, even with Furmark.

 

1. buy 4870s
2. buy 5870s
3. buy knife
4. buy super glue
5. remove all four chips from the four cards
6. super glue 5870 chips to the 4870 cards
7. ???
8 PROFIT!!

@Joker

Was this with stock thermal paste (possibly a bad application) or with something better (applied by you)?

 

That's not an uncommon result with these cards. It actually should have been expected.

 

Good stuff Joker.

Out of curiosity, how did the 4870s compare when they were first released to what they are now? Did subsequent driver releases make a difference?

Just wondering if that was the case and if any 'kinks' with the 5870s will be ironed out over time.

 

I expect a redesigned chassis to hold two 480M's. As it stands now there is no way the current design will accommodate 2 of those cards. If they don't mention a redesign at E3, I'll get a bare bones x7200 with an i7 920 and a single 480M and add a second one later when I have more cash. I'm going to cancel my order for the R2 on Monday.

 

Is the X7200 already up for order?

 

Not that I know of. I heard it was sometime in July.

 

So I would think the census would be so far that a single 5870 is a great performer and does give decent increases but the CF is the issue right now. What do you think you single users?

 

None of the single 5870 M17x users here seem to be big benchers. I'd like to see if the single systems can hit 10k GPU on vantage, so we can determine if single systems are as crippled as dual systems.

 

Guess, I expected too much. But I've seen better temps in the Clevo section with a single 5870.

 

Keep an eye on the next Computex (1st of June) and probably beginning-mid July you can actually get it.

 

The M15x almost hits 10K GPU Vantage with the 5870...very close.

 

Yeah but thats using your provided clevo 5870s , which are proven to be able to hit 10k.

 

The cooling on the m17x are better than m15x. The m17x should get 10K + GPU score.

 

Well thats assuming Dell didn't cripple the cards (which we think is the case).

 

Hmmm, this is certainly something to think about. Would temps at 95 degrees be unpleasant to play or just noisy? Frankly I'm not waiting for 480m's so if these cards really do suck I'm going to give up on AW entirely and go with something completely different.

 

Noisy and probably warm keyboards, but you won't reach 95 degrees gaming. While gaming it'll just be somewhat noisy.

 

Did everyone not read Hemi's post? x7200 is supposedly being released in August, the same time the rumored AW 400w is coming.

 

And what 400W AW is that?! Rumors have failed to make it to my eyes/ears thus far

Links are appreciated (preferably OUTSIDE of NBR - which could purely be gossip on such a topic)

 

It's called a collection of hints. Darkhan stating something new might come in fall. Moo who blatently called the x7200 2 months ago is now calling a new 480 SLI laptop coming in the fall for AW. Sleey0 said his source is telling him a 400w beast is coming.

Since Moo hasnt been wrong before on coming laptops, and Darkhan is giving a hint like that, and sleey0 got a hint like that from his trusted source, it all comes together. Read inbetween the lines too

 

If they go with a 400W PSU for a laptop, I would really like to see the size of the battery....

 

There's ALWAYS something on the horizon. If you keep waiting for it, you'll never purchase anything. Nature of technology.

 

In the horizon you can see all the AW/Clevo laptops bloat up bigger and bigger for 10 more FPS, and you can choose not support this ridiculous movement like I won't be.

It's fun for me to resign myself with a wad of cash for a vacation instead of supporting this while I watch everyone entangle themselves in this endless, vicious loop and have fun watching some epic benching contests too though!

 

I'm not waiting for any more refreshes, I'm getting my M17x with 2 5870's and that's it; no 480m's for me.

 

Dude, that's not good at all! My R1 system is nearly a year old, and the paint on it is holding much better than that!!!

Yeah raise bloody hell with Dell, you paid for a new system, not a refurb!!!

 

when i was talking about heat issues with CF 5870s before they were released no one believed me. People keep saying they need less power and stuff. Now came the proof. something was telling me DDR5 on a notebook especially in crossfire would have its side effects.

I was really considering of buying the CF 5870 but now i may feel happy with the 4870s i got with my replacement. At least i have time to wait if something comes from Dell to reduce the heat a little bit. Then i can decide if i buy the KIT or not.

 

Dell will never release 480M SLI so soon after the 5870CF. They will most likeley come out in 2011 around the same time when the SB cpu-s come out. It's all about marketing strategy and making profit.
Keep in mind that some of the above sources, first speculatated that 5870CF would come out around Jan-Feb so I wouldn't rely on these rumors too much. People who want the 480M SLI from AW should be ready to wait for at least 6 months.

 

Or Since the BIOS support it. Should install one and watch there Laptop self destruct

 

Thanks Joker for that comparison testing of the R2s with 5870's and 4870's, I rep ya on this one.
I keep subscribed to this thread as well as the main R2 owners thread, when the 5870s CF became available for the R2 I was interested in the possibility of upgrading. The side by side comparison did put my mind at ease, also, I been enjoying the heck out of my CF 4870's in all games I have.
On the matter of the paint chipping off the black system, that is a shame for a rig at this price point, I am glad I decided on the silver color, it is holding up great and that particular edge that chipped off in your system seems to be brushed aluminum on the lunar silver, which wont ever chip, and it has a natural look to it, again, paint chipping off like this in a 3 grand plus rig is simply unacceptable...
Thanks again for your efforts man, I will happily keep on gaming on my R2 with 4870's CF till next year offerings

 

No problem, glad I could help. I'll do one last game test tomorrow: BF BC2 and then put up the videos I promised you guys of both systems running side by side.

 

Anyone else having a weird problem when starting your machine, it will light up but not go to the screen just hang in blank? I've had to press the power button and unhook the power then retry. Hope it's not a permanent thing

 

I have had the same problem before, where all the lihts would go up but nothing would happen, no splash screen. Try a power drain

 

this happened on R1 too. i thought it was the motherboard-bios issue.

with power drain you mean remove battery and power cord and continuously press power button for 15 sec?