M17xR2 Bios A08 Discussion Thread

Looks like an updated Bios has been posted

Drivers & Downloads

M17xR2 A08 System BIOS
BIOS Information:
BIOS Revision: A08
EC Revision: 15.31

Instructions and comments:
1. To install the BIOS, download the executable and run it in Windows and click
on the Flash BIOS button in the WinPhlash utility.

A08 System BIOS Release Notes:
1. Implemented Turbo Ratio limits to default values.
2. Improved touchpad polling rates.

BIOS history:
Please see previous BIOS release for their release notes.


I can't wait to test this to see if it totally corrects the polling issues. If so, thanks should go to Brian to getting this resolved!

 

Hell yeah! Flashing now, will let you know.

 

rep+ Will flash away later.

 

Hmm, still running the A06 and old VBIOS. I need to get with it regarding these updates. Although I never use the touchpad.

 

flashiiing

 

I flashed with no issues. I did not have to reset my Raid in Bios this time. What is the Turbo improvement part of it do???

 

Yea I'm more importantly concerned about what the Turbo bit does. Let us know once you find out folks.

 

Please let me know if the polling issues are resolved. I am at work and cant test it. :-(

 

@kilthro - see here http://forum.notebookreview.com/6666292-post658.html

 

Ahuhs I just got back. What is this...... Oh a new BIOS again already. Cool I'll be flashing soon thens.
Hows it so far? Any news to report?

Cheers.

EDIT: Okay I just finished flashing to the new A08 bios. All went smoothly. I didn't have to re-enable my RAID-0 settings in BIOS options. It just shutdown, I powered back on and I'm back here in windows again.
Also the touch pad does feel like it has improved.

Cheers.

 

no clue about the turbo thing bit the touchpad polling rates is pretty good now..

 

Ok, i can't confirm flynnaz with the hdd raid not restting, as i had to change it from AHCI to RAID and enable RAID0 again.

Anyway, the touchpad polling i got with MouseChecker is between 54Hz on the outer frame of the touchpad and 63Hz max. overall inside. So much more usable than before. Did not see any new functions in bios, non-oc compatible cpu atleast.

And didn't see any issues so far.

 

So my 3d 06 score went from 19+to 17 with this new bios.Haven't ran any games yet.

 

Users with Extreme CPUs need to be aware of this.

The Intel specs for a Core i7-920XM lists the maximum turbo multipliers at 17, 17, 23 and 24 when 4, 3, 2 or 1 core is in the active state. The Alienware M17x has been using the 24 turbo multiplier whether 1 core or 4 cores were in the active state for a nice little performance boost. I'm assuming that this bios update has reset these back to Intel's default values and would explain a performance drop as reported above if that did happen.

Reboot and either download a fresh copy of ThrottleStop or clear out the settings in the ThrottleStop.INI file before running it so it can read the default values in your CPU now without it changing them. Right click on ThrottleStop and post a picture of what the default turbo multipliers are now. As long as Dell didn't lock these down then you will be OK but you would need to run software like ThrottleStop or ELEET to unlock them every time you boot up if there isn't a bios option to set the turbo multipliers available.

Edit: I guess the easiest way to test is to boot up, don't run ThrottleStop and then run 8 threads of wPrime. If your multiplier in CPU-Z is only 17 or the default of 15 then I think you will understand what this change really means to performance.

 

I've learned my lesson with updates since my R1, I think I'm gonna take a step back once again (still stock A05) and see what Dell has spawned.

 

Thanks for the explanation unclewebb! Looks like I won't be upgrading then.

 

I'm just taking a wild guess at what Dell might have done. We still need someone that has updated to A08 and has an Extreme CPU to run a wPrime bench or similar so they can watch what happens to the multiplier.

 

Found this program that tells you the multiplier http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip

 

Hmmm, that looks kind of familiar.

Here's the updated version of i7 Turbo with 6 core Gulftown support and better Core 2 QX support.

i7 Turbo GT 1.1
http://www.mediafire.com/?w5lpqqpy6wwq8wi

RealTemp 3.59.5 should work good too.
http://www.mediafire.com/?vc6w5frn1gclpu9

 

Well the new bios seems to be working fine for me so far.

 

If you don't have an Extreme CPU then you won't have any problems with the reduced turbo multipliers. Only the 920XM and 940XM will take a big CPU performance hit from the new bios. With A08 and a 920XM, you will need to run ThrottleStop and right click on it so you can get your turbo multiplier back up to 24 across the board. Minor inconvenience. Once that's done then you don't need to run ThrottleStop anymore. I might add an option so this is done automatically and then ThrottleStop exits after that.

 

unclewebb,
with my setup, i7 720 cpu, I downloaded Trottlestop, how do I use it? It looks like I leave it on #1 performance and press "turn on" is this correct? Or do I pick Game?

Also does ThrottleStop need to always run in the backgroud?

 

So no fix for the video drivers huh? I wish Dell would get its act together so we don't have to rely on their drivers

 

flynnaz: If you are just monitoring your CPU with ThrottleStop then download it and run it as is in monitoring mode. If you have some throttling issue that you are trying to correct then you can turn it on and put a check mark in either or both of the clock modulation boxes to keep those locked at 100%. You can also put a check mark in the Set Multiplier box and set that as high as possible.

With a 720QM and the latest bios, you might not need to run TS anymore except in monitoring mode to check performance. Check off the Log File option and go do some gaming and then upload the log file when you are done to Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire so I can have a look.

Push the F1 key while ThrottleStop is running for some basic information about its features.

 

Thank you

 

lol did you make that? You sir are a rather great resource to have around glad your a NBR member

 

Yayyyyyyyyyyyy T-Pad is soooo much better now.
Excellent!

 

Thank you AW/Dell

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...bios-a08-discussion-thread-4.html#post6668510

 

Has anyone tested to see by how much in performance we are losing? Is it that much to make a big deal over?

 

I'm not happy about it, first the cutting down on the extreme cpu's and they think they can put out lame beta graphic drivers instead of fixing the bios so we can use regular ati driver.

 

With dell's latest A08 bios for the M17x-R2, you potentially lose several hundred mhz in performance because of this bios now forcing lower multipliers for turbo mode (vs. A07). It can be remedied in a way with TS but as a result of TS fighting the bios, there could potentially be stuttering in games. UncleWebb, correct me if I'm wrong, but based on how he explained it to me before, TS works by monitoring certain registry changes in Windows and then every few hundred milliseconds, it counteracts those changes. So what happens when the bios now wants to force an extreme CPU to run at a gimped speed? It will constantly try to push it down while TS fights to push it back up which in my experience usually leads to some stuttering in games/applications.

This change was completely unnecessary! We had no overheating/throttling issues with the M17x-R2, so why do this? Dell should have been enhancing the performance of this system with bios updates, not cutting it down.

Frankly I'm sick of Dell, I don't care how great their warranty is or shiny the M17x-R2 is, when you have a company actively seeking to reduce their customers enjoyment of the system and those customers having to devise workarounds, that's when it stops being fun and just ends up not being worth it, especially for the price they charge. Like I said, it's my last Dell made laptop. Hopefully that didn't sound TOO dramatic. But I'm really not happy about this change.

 

I think this feature was suppose to be for the m15x throttle problem and engineering was to lazy to take it out of the m17x r2 bios, funny how dell fixes one thing and breaks another and leaves us forum member to become their lab rats and figure out ways around their stupid mistakes. Anyways once again..if someone can come up with a perfect fix for this please share, and if not, can someone pm me and send me bios A07 or whatever was the best previously.

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't an accident. They're purposely crippling the system so people don't call in asking why their 920xm equipped M17x has very loud fans. So their solution was to gimp it's performance so the CPU draws less power thus produces less heat therefore you have lower fan noise. Instead they should have devised a more robust cooling solution but that's not Dell's way. Whatever it takes to save a penny is their philosophy, screw what the customer may want! Charge a $1000+ extra for a CPU that is marginalized, what a deceptive tactic.

 

They improved the touchpad performance and they messed up with the CPU, I don't get it either. I didn't update to the A08 BIOS and I am not going to since I always use an external mouse and my CPU performance and temperatures are more than fine.

Instead they could do something about the low SSD performance. Brian how is your testing with those SSDs that you mentioned going btw?

 

I tried updating the bios earlier today and it decided to freeze on block 40... so now it won't boot. Any advice? :/

 

Here's the new math that 5150Joker is not overly impressed by.

The old bios used to let the 920XM run all 4 cores fully loaded with a turbo multiplier of 24. The 940XM used to use 25 when all 4 cores were fully loaded.

The new bios has reduced that to 17 for the 920XM and down to 18 for the 940XM. That's a hell of a performance hit.

17/24 = 0.708 = 29.2% decrease in full load performance
18/25 = 0.720 = 28.0% decrease in full load performance

Why didn't Dell clearly state this in the bios release notes? If you are trying to do some 3D rendering and you switch to this new and improved bios then you are going to go ballistic.

The changes by the bios are made directly to registers within the CPU and not to the registry itself. ThrottleStop has to constantly monitor those registers and when the bios changes them to throttle the CPU, ThrottleStop has to change them back as quickly as possible. I can waste CPU cycles and crank up the frequency that ThrottleStop monitors and tries to change these registers but it's a losing battle. Ultimately what the bios wants runs at a higher priority level than user software runs at so ThrottleStop is not 100% effective. It's a band-aid solution at best.

This problem needs to be fixed by Dell. I thought last December when the first version of ThrottleStop was released that Dell would clean up this throttling stuff in a month or two or three but it just goes on and on. Yesterday they announced that running Furmark isn't a good idea on their under designed laptops which prepared them for today's announcement of the throttling fix. Now they quietly reduce power consumption by reducing the maximum turbo multiplier when the Extreme CPUs are fully loaded.

Dell needs to hire some enthusiasts to get their top of the line gaming notebooks back on track. Reducing performance by almost 30% to solve a problem is a cop out. If it needs better cooling, improve the cooling. If it needs more power, ship it with a higher rated power adapter. Users buy gaming laptops to play games on and to bench on. They don't appreciate Dell playing games with them and Dell treating them like they are idiots. It took less than 1 day for users to see right through this latest bios and the negative impact it has on the Extreme CPUs.

Vommidor: You're screwed. You might as well call Dell and tell them to come and get it. When a bios update goes bad you are left with an expensive brick.

 

There are ways to do flash recovery on a Phoenix bios but for the life of me I can't find the link. It's been posted before but to be honest, your best bet is to call Dell and ask them to replace your motherboard, it's toast.

 

Glad i read all this before i decided to update BIOS. Im sticking with A07 and my multipliers at 24X thank you very much dell.

 

ahh well thanks guys, good thing it's the weekend and my homework was printed out. lol /sigh

 

I have the m17xR1 model but with windows 7 64. Can this bios apply and how?

Ps. which is the best bios? i currently run a04

 

This BIOS is for the R2 and you have the R1, don't even think about trying it unless you want to brick your motherboard.

 

thanks for that... I actually saw that coming but I guess I wanted a way around it. I break it you help me fix it. bad policy yeah....

 

When I read this, my alarm bells rung. Has anybody found actual proof that this really cripples the turbo multiplier on extreme CPUs? Has anybody flashed to A08 verified the multiplier loss when all four cores are active, flashed back to an earlier BIOS successfuly and got the full multiplier back?

I guess we really need a way to create custom, modified BIOS versions now.

@UncleWebb: Curious. Does only increasing the TDP/TDC in ThrottleStop also cause it to update the registers constantly (and thus constantly fight the BIOS/CPU internal limits) or is it enough for ThrottleStop to do it once per run/bootup?

 

A little dramatic, yes. Don't you bounce between purchasing a new Dell/Alienware system and threatening to purchase a Clevo etc. fairly regularly?

Gentle teasing aside, I fully agree with you here. As per unclewebb's post, if it's a nearly 30% reduction in full load performance - that's something worth getting in a huff over.

Dell are making some very bad decisions and the Alienware brand is practically alienating their customers as a result...

 

lol a few times here and there. Truth is I like my M17x-R2, it's a nice machine but Dell wants to try their best to ruin that experience. For the M15x, it may have improved things for them since that system was a mess to start with but this change was not needed at all with the M17x-R2. We didn't have throttling problems like the M15x.

Unclewebb's calculation's are spot on. The M15x guys with extreme mobile CPU's have already seen declines in performance without TS enabled.

 

^^ yup, i was a little supprised.
thank goodness for throttlestop.

i'm lovin the touchpad too much to go back however
a funny thing though, with the a08 bios and throttlestop i'm able to get a solid x24 accross the board without any throttle whatsoever. i wasn't able to sustain it in a07 for some reason, even with the tdp/tda limits raised.

 

Are you using an M15x or M17x? I remember seeing you in both forums so I can't don't recall which you have.

 

m15x with the 920xm, friends got the m17x r2
waaa grats on 5k posts :O

 

So this means for all R2 users who have below 920xm or 940xm CPU that the bios update is recommended, just for the mousepad performance aspect...

not all of us have the Extreme CPUs...