M17xR4/680M fps mystery

I got my Alienware M17xR4 with 3630QM and NVidia 680M yesterday and am a bit shocked regarding the low fps in my favourite application, Microsoft Flightsimulator X (FSX). At my usual flight situation I get just 5 fps.

I had an Asus G75 with 3610QM/670M some weeks ago for testing and got around 20 fps in the same situation. So roughly 4 times more.

What the heck is going on, the 680M is supposed to be the fastest card on the market for Laptops ? Both Laptops use the same driver (302.77), and in the NVidia 3D settings, FSX is connected with the NVidia card. As a quick check here are some comparison values with 3DMark 06 (DirectX9 benchmark):

Asus/670M : 15800
Alienware/680M : 24100

Similar results with 3DMark11, the 680M performs roughly 40% faster. I checked some games, e.g. The Witcher 2, they all run perfectly at the highest details. The Alienware fans come up after seconds in any game, but stay dead quiet in FSX.
The low fps in FSX make the impression as if it's using the onboard Intel Graphic, but I have no idea why.
I have also tried NVidia driver 306.97, no change.

Any ideas what might be wrong or what to check ?

Mike

 

It does sound as if it's using the intel graphics chip. I had programs doing this with my current laptop (Soon to be retired), using hybrid 6630m/intel HD 3000 graphics. OpenGL applications would be using the intel chip, therefore giving horrible performance. It took weeks for Dell to finally pull a custom driver out of their to fix it.

But since this is running standard drivers, I'm not sure. I know FSX is horribly written and is way more processor oriented than graphics, but since you're getting worse frames on the newer computer compared to the old one, that really is whack. Is there a way within FSX to see what GPU it is utilising in the settings? Maybe a command (If there is even a command line of some sort, hell I don't know) to see what it is using? Is there a .ini file or something within which you could specify what card for the game to use? Have you compared your results to other systems running FSX with intel graphics to check if it actually is this? Could you disable the laptop from utilising the graphics somehow?

These are just some random suggestions that come to mind from little experience. I hope you get this sorted, I know what these sort of problems feel like >.< Except, probably worse for you with your ultra high spec system compared to my low spec one.

 

FSX you need to set to the whitelist thing. and you might want to tweak your CFG. use nvidia inspector, dont use the in game Anti-Aliasing. i use 660m and when i use the NGX with max traffic in JFK i can still average around 15-20 FPS in the VC

 

Is it generally acceptable to draw such horrible frame rates from FSX? I couldn't live with it personally...

 

One should get around 20-25 for a "fluid" flight, more is not noticeable. Well, it has to be acceptable as there is no alternative to FSX with its high-end Addons.
I checked NVidia usage with GPU-X, at least the temperature slowly rises (not more than 56C), but the GPU load stays at around 20-30%. Strange. Anyway, the card should be active.
I also checked CPU performance with Cinebench, values are a few percent higher than common results with the 3610QM. So the 3630QM seems to be OK.

I have set energy saving mode to 'high power'. And in NVidia settings, I have set the card in the 3D Global settings as the preferred card. It should have Optimus and this should disable Optimus ? Is that correct ?
FSX shows only the NVidia in the Display settings, the OnBoard Intel does not appear at all. Should be correct.

I have also tweaked the fsx.cfg with the common stuff. Now I am up from 5 to 8 fps (e.g. at KJFK with the NGX). I would have expected something around 25 fps. So it's roughly 4x slower than expected.

I have 10 years experience with Microsoft FS and optimizing it, so I'm completely puzzled now.

Occasionally NVidia fixes stuff for selected games in their drivers, so could it be the card just has problem with FSX, which needs to be fixed ?

 

technically optimus cannot be disabled because your nvidia gpu is hardwired to the igpu and then to your display

try manually adding the game's .exe file to nvidia's whitelist

Manage 3D settings > Programs Settings Tab ( right next to the global settings tab ) > Add and select game .exe > Select Nvidia GPU in the drop down menu

 

it was already automatically in the whitelist after FSX installation. But I removed it and added it again. Unfortunately no change.

I made some more tests. Checked temperature and GPU load with GPU-Z. Added clouds and other stuff in FSX, which normally puts 'load' on the fps. Temperature and GPU load (around 25%) stay the same. fps go down.
Really weird

 

Check out the rest of the info of nVidia optimus. Also are you using the DELL provided drivers or the ones on the nVidia Website?

 

Update your damn drivers...

When you launch the game, right click the .exe file and run with high performance graphics processor.

If you still get bad fps, right click on desktop open nvidia control panel. Navigate to 3D settings, and force some of the things off like AA or AF i dnoooo

 

I have used both. The M17 came with 302.77. I updated to 306.97 via NVidia Website. And tried also 306.23 as recommended by NVidia support.
Doesn't change anything.
What exactly do you mean with check the rest of NVidia optimus info ? What can I do other than selecting the NVidia card for FSX ? Or right clicking fsx.exe and select the card there ? And using maximum power for the energy settings ?
I have left everything else on the NVidia default settings, so no AA/AF or whatever.

Unfortunately the 680M is quite expensive, so I didn't find any FSX user with the card yet. I keep trying in a lot of FSX forums.
Anyone here using FSX with the 680M?

 

You can whitelist the games for them to use the nVidia card in the nVidia Control Panel. But you need the DELL drivers only. Both of them, the intel and the nVidia.

 

Yes, but that was all in the thread already. Of course I got the Alienware with Dell drivers, that was the starting point when I installed FSX.

Bit turning around in circles.

 

If it is only happening on that game then the problem might be just an incompatibility between the game and your lappy.

 

Yes, seems I have to return the Alienware, really a pity.

 

Why would you return a PC for a compatibility issue with an specific game? Have you checked the requirements of the game? Forums about it? Probably they have some kind of solution that would not require you to send a working laptop back.

 

Did you get Win 7 pro? Try running compatibility mode?

 

What power plan are you running?

Having accidentally been in Power Saver a few times, FPS drops significantly. You need to be in High Performance.

 

Because I need a fast Laptop almost exclusively for FSX and the Alienware up to now isn't. Due to the good benchmark results it is probably not fault of the Alienware. Maybe the 680M has a problem with it. But what other choice do i have if the results are not as expected ?
Yes, I know the requirements, I use Microsoft Flightsimulator since 20 years. Have asked in several FSX fora, but users are similarly puzzled. It should run with roughly 25-30 fps. But it runs with 5-10.

Yes, I tried compatibiliy mode, although FSX normally doesn't need it. Regarding power, yes I'm in high performance mode.

 

FSX is all about CPU the 680m is fine, you need unlocked CPU to run full turbo.Turbo PWR Limit MSR Lock>Disabled/ThrottleStop + HWinfo fan control.
FSX tweaks: 4.5 ghz Intel i7, But low FPS in FSX.... - MS FSX Forum - The AVSIM Community

 

Thanks for the input. You can try this and let us know. Did you run the game as an administrator? did you right click on it and selected to run with nVidia processor? Do you even get that option?

 

That sounds quite promising, because the fans are next to quiet in FSX. I have downloaded HWInfo, but not sure about the Lock disable/Throttle stop. I have BIOS Version A09 (so the M17R4 came already with the current version on the DELL driver page) . There are two performance options in the BIOS, currently set to ...
CPU Turbo mode [Enabled]
Overclocking feature [Disabled]

I tried to follow this thread, but I must admit I have a hard time to understand it :
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m18x/605380-m18x-a03-bios-modification-infos-31.html

Could you give a summary what I would have to do or where to find it ?

BTW, I was using this guide already, so I assume my FSX cfg settings are correct:
Software & Hardware Guide for FSX - FSX Configuration Tutorials, HInts and Tips - Microsoft's FSX - Tutorials - The AVSIM Community

Luis, yes, I'm running FSX as admin. I have the option to select NVidia when right clicking on fsx.exe. That feature can be enable in the NVidia control panel.

To everyone, thanks a bunch for the help !

 

To reach Turbo PWR Limit MSR Lock option [M17x R4] - 'unlocked' BIOS versions
Unlocked ThrottleStop guide for Alienware M17X R3/R4+M18X R1/R2 Unlocked ThrottleStop 4.10 for Alienware M17X R3

 

Ok, thanks but I have A09 stock already, so I can't use it ?

[M17x R4] - 'unlocked' BIOS versions - Page 9

 

^ Afraid not.

Your options are limited to sending it back or getting a beefier CPU.

 

It seems from stock A09 it is not possible, Intel XTU unlocks ThrotteStop.
First enable overclocking >set Long 60-56-60 Short (w)>F10 save/exit> run FSX.
The 3630QM is locked so you can't go any further.

 

Thanks, but no remarkable change in FSX. Still runs with fans dead quiet.

I could not find anything regarding Throttling in Intel XPU (latest version). .
There's Package Turbo Power Lock (currently enabled). Is that anything related to the Turbo PWR Lock above ?
Anyway, it can be set to Disable, which enables to set Turbo Boost Power max (currently at 55W) and Turbo Boost power Time Window (currently at 0.015625sec.). Should I try with Disabled or would that be useless ?

Sorry for my probably stupid questions, I am really a newbie regarding these settings.

 

Disabling the Package Turbo Power Lock sounds like a good idea but being able to increase the power limit probably won't make a huge difference to performance.

I would suggest running ThrottleStop in Monitoring mode and check off the Log File option so you have an accurate record of your CPU's performance. Go play for 10 or 15 minutes and then exit the game and exit ThrottleStop. Upload the log file to Pastebin.com and then post a link here. This will give us a better idea if there are any serious throttling problems or if your CPU is running as Intel intended it to run.

 

Have you tried setting the affinity to 1 core, is the game even multithreaded?

 

i also play FSX using a 580M and a 2670 because FSX wasn't probably optimized when released it is CPU heavily as previous stated i would lower the overall settings down that Game even taxes my mates computer and he has one hell of a CPU I also believe that FSX cant use quad core CPUs as i believe it only supports dual core this is probably why your getting such poor performance in game

 

The settings from first picture [M17x R4] - 'unlocked' BIOS versions, these tweaks may give 5 to 8 extra fps but the fact remains that the game should run between 20 fps without any Bios tweaking.
1)W7/8?
2) Visual C++ 2005 Latest Supported Visual C++ Downloads
3) .Net Framework?
4) Conflicting settings Nvidia CPL/SFX tweaks
5) AC power/Power options>minimum processor state/plugged in 100%>Maximum P State battery/plugged in 100%.
6) Command center disable power plans.
6) Low fan speeds indicates low CPU/GPU usage, even for the HD 4000 5 fps still low.
I suggest to re-install SFX as the other games are getting expected fps.

 

I'm surprised. I did just that, started FSX and am up from roughly 8 fps to 22 fps . With almost all settings to the max . Ooops.
That unexpectedly seems to have solved the problem.

Here are the values I can change in XTU, is there anything else I should change ? :

Reference Clock : 100.0 MHz
Turbo Boost Power Max and Turbo Boost Short Power max : 60
Turbo Boost Power Time Windows : 0,015625 sec
Core Current Limit : 112.0 A
Graphics (that's just the HD4000,I assume).:
Processor Graphics Ratio Limit : 8.0x
Processor Graphics Current Limit : 16,0 A

It's Windows 7. FSX was already reinstalled twice, using two different versions (I was former FSX beta tester, so I also have also a Release Candidate version). Power options are all set as suggested.
Will create a logfile now.

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

That's a good starting point, within the Bios change the long duration time window from default 28 to 56 advanced>overclocking feature> set 56>F10, open ThrottleStop 5.00 hit TPL it should read 60-56-60.
Now you can start tweaking the 680m to get better results.

 

Hello MikeAlphaAlpha.

I'm with this same problem of low FPS in FSX.
My config is the same as yours (CPU and VGA), but even changing settings in XTU continued with low FPS.
Could you help me?

Thank you.