New M17x w/580 - Temps and Throttling Concerns

I did some Furmark tests (10 minutes total) last night with raising the back of the M17x w/580 and found that 1/2" height was the point before diminishing returns. It dropped temps during Furmark a full 10C, where 1/4" dropped it 5C and 1" dropped it 11C. I don't know if a notebook cooler with fans would help any further, but it doesn't seem necessary from what I'm seeing. So, simple spacers or a basic notebook stand that has a ventilated base would do wonders.

To recap, without spacers on a flat table (room temp was 74F), I reach 77C and ultimately it throttles. If I use optimal (YMMV) 1/2" spacers under the feet (being careful not to use anything that blocked the fans) I watched Furmark temps drop to 67C. It makes you wonder why Alienware didn't extend the feet, at least in the back, or mold the base with better air channels or something. It's such a drastic improvement in temps, and this is with the stock paste.

I assume that even with the 6990, you'd see similar results. The question is, do you need to worry about it with the 6990 since it doesn't throttle, even if temps got into the 80s (assuming similar thermal characterists as with the 580)?

 

I'm curious, what's your room temp like?

 

I forgot to mention that. Room temp was 74F. I plan to repeat the tests with the room warmer to day to see what the impact is. It gets warm here in the summer (Calif) so I do wonder what that will be like. This room can get to 80F during the summer when I'm running the A/C.

 

@rixhobbies On my 15" MSI I was gaming for hours with the 6990M at around low 90s lol.

It's sitting in my m17x now and temps never get higher than 75 (Furmark) - Skyrim is like 65-70 max. The 6990M doesn't know what throttle means

Also isn't there a new 580M heatsink coming out soon?

 

I read that Dell may have new heatsinks, but I'm not sure if they're putting them in new M17x R3's or if you have to have a tech install them.

 

I can't find the post, but I thought they had already come out and were already being installed in new M17xs. There was a picture of the old one and the one that showed the new one used more copper. If I can find it, I'll post the link.

 

What happened to your M17, btw? Your sig says Dell killed it?

 

Are you raising the back of the M17x up at all? Are those temps before or after your re-paste?

 

Nope, never raised anything. I replaced the 6870M with my 6990M and broke the backplate that I had to re-use, meaning that I can't screw in the heatsink properly because I have nowhere to put one of the screws. Thankfully the heatsink sticks very well to the GPU, loads of sticky thermal pads

 

DocBurN - don't be worried about the throttling with 580M. Either use the solution linked in widezu69's signature, or use this solution if flashing the vBIOS is a concern. Either way, throttling should become a non-issue.

Having just moved to the green side from 6990M CrossFire, I can tell you there are pros and cons to both. The 6990M's biggest issue is lack of good driver support from AMD. It's a powerful video card, but the enhanced drivers from NVIDIA made the 580M the winner in my view. I'm not a fanboy for either brand, I just want what works best. At this point in time, you made a great choice in the 580M.

The M18x seems to run a little cooler with the 580M SLI, but you can use SpeedFan or HWiNFO64 to keep the M17x R3 plenty cool and that also helps with throttling on the M17x R3.

 

Does your M18x with 580m SLI have throttling as well?

 

All of them do but fixable using the same methods

 

Yes, until the necessary corrective steps are taken.

Exactly right.

 

Yeah, I am running WOW, over 1 hour, and top temp is 64 degrees, running p1 and p0 with same clocks.... no issues.... no throttling, I am not even running that hot... then again WOW isnt the most demanding game...

 

P1 and P0 at the same clocks is the easiest way of solving the throttle If you want, visit the link in my sig for a more permanent solution. It basically flashes P1 and P0 to the same clocks so you don't have to do it everytime

 

Nice! No temp issues at all?

 

dark,
none so far, I have opted to go for Fox's soulution, have a batch file in startup directory, witch set p1 and p0 at the same clocks in nvidia inspector on startup, problem solved.

I have not come remotely close to 77c-79c, highest I have seen so far playing WOW is 65c for about a hour or so.

 

solution linked in widezu69's signature about vbios make me wonder how often nvidia release new video bios ?

 

It's possible that since Dell released one new vbios they will release another. Looking at the temps the 580 runs at (low to mid 80s?) when throttling is disabled (or in a non-Dell laptop) suggests that 77C thermal throttling is unnecessarily aggressive. Perhaps it should be more like 85C. In any case, releasing a new vbios that increases it even 5C would probably solve the issue for most people and keep things within safe limits.

 

Unless something is broken and needs to be fixed, there's really no reason for periodic vBIOS updates to be released from NVIDIA or AMD. vBIOS updates are normally vendor-specific, whereas reference drivers are not.

 

Stock, my M17x w/580 hit 77C with Furmark in a 74F room (flat table, no lifting). Looking at the posts here and others, it makes me wonder if this is what would be expected from stock or if possibly I got a bad Dell paste job. Having said that, it does drop 10C fast once I lift the back, so maybe not? If I do decide to keep the 580, I'd rather not re-paste unless it seems to be a poor paste job to begin with. I imagine the temps would tell that story.

 

Honestly, I don't think re-pasting is going to significantly lower your temps. I say this only because they're not unreasonably high at this point, but they do seem to be high enough to trigger throttling. (The throttling trigger temps are ridiculously low, which is why a workaround was necessary. Throttling would actually be a very good thing if it only occurred when approaching dangerous temperatures.)

I don't own an R3, but based on everything I have seen posted on this forum I believe there is not as robust cooling on the R3 as there could have been and elevating the base and/or using a chill-pad/notebook cooler is going to be necessary to keep the temps down around 65°C to 70°C.

 

With the big difference raising the back does, you would think they would have used large air intake channels or at least taller feet. It's clear that the fans are starving for air and when they get it, the cooling system is plenty robust.

 

I agree... that probably would have been sufficient. It may have been a situation where the 580M produces more heat than anticipated. I don't know that the 6970M and 6990M M17x R3 has the same degree of cooling concerns and the 580M came out later as an option if I am not mistaken.

Alienware could easily make a different bottom cover that elevates the base for improved cooling, but I could see some R3 owners not appreciating that and complaining about it if they carry their R3 on the road for frequent travel.

The M18x also runs cooler with the base elevated, but with 3 system fans blowing at once, I think there is more air circulating through the chassis than there is on the R3 with two fans.

 

I still have Dell's offer on the table to replace this unit with one with the 6990, but admittedly the driver situation has me a bit cautious. I have always had good luck with the Nvidia drivers.

 

Rix, most of the issues you see with drivers are in Crossfire setups...but you won't have that issue. I've installed 11.8, 11.9, 11.10 (various versions), 11.11a,b,c, 12.1...always on the first try. ZERO bsods and I always install over the previous one without any issues

 

if the throttling is bothering you get it replaced with the 6990m. if not, have fun using the fastest card on the market

 

haha.. this is the kind of sentence that keep me beleave in keeping my 580m..

 

Interesting and good to know. For some reason I had thought the BSODs impacted single 6990s as well.

As a side note, I read on the M18x forums that Dell/AMD have new drivers coming out very soon that appear to address the issues that were reported.

It's good to hear that using AMD reference drivers will be ok since Dell seems to stop providing regular driver updates after a new "R" revision hits.

 

So if I buy an M17x R3, open the box up, set it on my desk, turn it on, and get temp/processor throttling.... what will Dell say when I call them?

I don't really feel comfortable doing a repaste job, since I know if any damage occurs to the laptop Dell will claim that the damage came from my repaste job - even if it didn't.

Same with a modded BIOS ... they'll void my warranty and claim that any damage occurred by using an unauthorized BIOS. Yeah, I may get the laptop working without throttling, but not having any sort of warranty support on a 2000+ dollar laptop doesn't leave me with a good feeling at all.

I'm unfortunately the kind of person that needs the security of a warranty on my laptop. I can't have a situation where I've given Dell any reason not to honor my warranty, even if it's to overcome some stupid throttling mechanism they've implemented.

 

ok...this is exactly the script that level 1 tech is gonna run through with you. He/she is gonna make you run some benches. And when your numbers are *acceptable* and *normal* (whatever the heck that means), they will say everything is normal.

If you're not going to repaste and implement the power throttle fix when your temps hit 67c, then you really should get the AMD card. Dell isn't going to do anything for you because nothing is wrong in their eyes. THe throttling is normal and acceptable

 

hi um sorry, just ask a little, this throttle on 580.. but it doesn't affect on 560 right?

 

I haven't seen anyone with a 560m complain about throttling...

 

oh,... good to hear.. but my 560m just got fried and broken, now i'm waiting for a Replacement, don't know what will replace it

 

Guys, going back to this thread, I am about to set up a Dell 580M in a MSI GT683 Barebone.

I know at first it doesnt sound like a good idea because the cooling is not as great as in the M17xR3 but I have planned to make sure the GPU will be kept cool enough.

Anyway, bar-code has already tried with a Dell 580M REV2 and it showed some heavy throttling during 3dmark vantage run...Temps went up to 88° :| so as I was reading all around that the throttles was due to the M17xR3 MOBO I am now thinking it could be due to the card itself (not the vbios).

He tried with a 180W adapter and the Sager 8150 with the 580M does have the 180W adapter and works perfectly fine so it doesn't throttle due to the lack of power in my opinion.
The only option is then the thermal throttling.
Would it be possible that the Dell 580M has the same issues (thermal throttle ~80°C) with different MOBO ?

Would you then advise me to upgrade it ?