*OFFICIAL* Alienware 17 Ranger (2013) Owner's Lounge Thread

Have you done "Unlocked BIOS without Optimus - 77degress ~ P???? 3DMard11"?
After unlocking BIOS are you able to set the bottleneck temp above 77 degrees? E.g. 80 degrees?

We can now rule out there is a hardware problem with the GTX 780m in AWs.

 

Awesome! Thanks, didn't know these things exist.

 

Definitely not a hardware problem. Yes, thats the last test with the max set to 92 degrees. Also, for anyone interested, there are 3 heatpipes to the GPU and 2 to the CPU (mine is a 4700MQ)

I have not yet tried without optimus. Honestly, not sure its needed as the scores are where I expected them to be once I adjust the temperature limit.

Also to those worrying about the screen - I disagree - I think it's a great screen - TN, yes, but definitely among the nicest TN's I've seen. I would like to see an IPS option one day soon, too, but don't let the screen dissuade you from the AW17.

N

 

GPU-Z ASIC Quality reads as 71.7% for anyone interested....

 

Thank you for your information.
If I were you I would do another 3DMark11 P test just for the sake of it by setting the temp limit to maybe 85-90 and without Optimus. Since Clevo barebones with Optimus which can't be turned off 4700MQ/GTX 780m combo got a P7737 according to NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

 

Has anyone else looked through the owner's manual? If not, have a look on page 83. It shows the procedure for removing the sub-woofer, and it's huge. Not only was I not aware this laptop had one (it's listed as a 2.0 speaker config.) I wasn't aware they (or their assembly) was that big for laptop parts.

Anyone with a 17 care to do some tests?

Edit: Apparently I was looking at the 18's manual. Apparently the guy posting that linked the wrong one. A little disappointed now...

 

I just tried it twice and got P7154 and P7158. It's still capped at 77 degrees. Apparently the modded vbios is not working that great in non-optimus as I've set the temp limit to 92 but it refuses to go over 77. I get better luck in optimus mode (which is where I use the computer anyway since I like the extra battery life).

 

On a german forum one user posted his 3dmark11 score 7500 without any vbios modification.
He´s got the 3D version without optimus though.

 

Thanks Nyceis! You've been a lot of help. Maybe setting the fans of the videocard at 95-98% and then running 3dmark 11 with Optimus would give higher results?

 

If anyone one needs this, this is the underside of my 4700MQ + 780M system.

 

Im gonna take a slightly risk here and say it is because of the BIOS, system BIOS not Vbios, where the morons at Dell coded the 780M to run at max 77C.
If it hits that, the GPU will downclock to lower the temperatures below 77C before enabling full speed again. Well until it hits 77C yet again, and around and around we go.
That is why you get lower score than what you should be, because the system is preventing the GPU to reach full speed. 77C limit is waaay too low and will heavily put a damper on the performance in games.

Good work Dell

 

Thanks! Do you know - can you check if the interposers (those SSD/HDD connectors) are available on the empty slots?

 

From the temps I have seen across recent NV mobile chips 77c is way too high - or at at least the upper limit. Desktops run much hotter. On the 580m they (NV) introduced a hardware throttle at 78C. No way around it, you just had to keep the temp below that. Since 77c is the limit temp it may be related?

Dell will not change fan profiles without a fight. Been through that one - apparently any change that affects the thermal characteristics requires the machine to be re-submitted for certification (surface skin temps tests I was told)

 

So based on what I'm seeing is there any clear performance improvements to installed the unlocked BIOS on the 17x? And if so where the heck do I find it?? I searcherd around here but didn't find it

 

Odd thing is, in optimus, with the modded vbios, I can get it to go up to 90 or so with no problem. The guy mentioned above with 7500 on a 3d non-optimus system makes sense, especially if he had a higher cpu.

 

If you like optimus (like i do) absolutely. I got 6000 with the stock vbios, and have reached 8000 with the modded vbios. The modded bios is on techinferno.com

 

That is a nice boost. At stock clocks, too? Impressive.

 

Clevo P157SM: 780M goes from 78C to 87C depending on the game
MSI GT70: 780M goes from 80C to 90C depending on the game

How can the 66C for Optimus not be too low? Or 77C for that matter. What about overclocking? Just forget about it with Alienwares?

The temperature limit they have on this new system is BS, and frankly if they dont change it, Im not gonna buy ituntil they issued out a BIOS update with higher temps

If changing the Vbios allow you to reach 90C, then Dell have coded the temperature limit within the GPU, not the system. That is good news because one can just reflash the 780M to a different vbios than Dell.

 

Agreed - what was odd to me was that with the modded bios, I was able to adjust the temp limit just fine while in optimus mode. In non-optimus, I could not adjust it. Most likely a side effect of the modded bios. Obviously the ball is in Dell's court. I'm surprised one of the reps hasn't chimed in. I'm still debating how I feel about having to mod a new system to get the performance I paid for. Part of me still wants to send the thing back....

N

 

Yes, I too would like a rep to respond. I've been very frustrated with the performance of my M15X (under-clocked 460M GPU, throttling) and was hoping Dell would have fixed these sorts of things ..5 years later.

 

8k @ Stock clocks? You have screenshot of that? And temps plz.

Didn't you say you couldn't get past the 77 degrees cap?

 

No, 8k was with a +100/+200 overclock. Once I overclocked, the temps seemed able to go higher. Go figure. It peaked at 88 I think with that overclock.

 

Yes I would also say most likely just a few kinks with the modded vbios. Give it some more months and they have fixed non Optimus too with a mod vbios.

 

88C in 3dmark11? Have you played any games? If so, what temperatures did you reach?

 

Hi, I remember reading a thread on some forum where people had added up-to-date GPU's into their M15x, like the 7970M for instance. So, it sounds like the cooling system would be able to handle it. It might be an option for you, if you're getting fed up with that 460M. I would imagine there's a fair bit of DIY involved to get it to work, but if you research it properly you could be onto a winning formula for giving your laptop a new lease of life! I've taken a similar approach.

 

88degC, getting toasty! ;-) If your fans were at maximum, you were using the laptop on a flat surface (not blocking vents at all), then there's probably not much more room for a greater overclock. You could try a notebook cooler, maybe lowers it 5 degrees max. Or maybe it's just a bad paste job; or maybe that's just the limit of the A17 cooling system! Who knows!

 

Dell probably nerfed the GPUs on purpose to maximize the prevention of them from breaking in the future thus less GPUs to replace.
And if Dell don't release an improved vBIOS update in the future folks with AW17/GTX 780m may give in to the temptation of modded vBIOS and fall into the highly likey Dell dirty trap of "If you use modded vBIOS you void warranty" policy.
Just a conspiracy theory but it's getting me worried.

 

This was one of the theories during the 580m 78c throttling issue. After all 78c is not that hot for a modern chip but eventually it was tracked down to an NV implementation.

You can't blame dell for walking away from a machine that has a non-standard bios or vbios as it is far too easy to destroy hardware if is done wrong and you are going outside of their design spec. You just never mention it

 

If I remember correct OCing on stock vBIOS does not void warranty but one would have to inform them according a Dell rep I spoke to (that info is 1 year old).

And I supposed the Dell technicians will still be able to find out if one used modded vBIOS or OCed from some kind of log file etc that we don't know about right? They must have some cards up their sleeves we don't know about.

 

It was on a flat surface, not raised. I don't think the fans were on high at all. I suspect this whole fiasco can very easily be fixed by dell with an updated fan and temp profile. Just need to get them aware of the issue.

 

Logically if there is something that is either within Alienware drivers, under a different file name or stored in "hardware"?

Accidental damage warranty, does it include OCing and custom vBIOS?

 

Perhaps it's worth starting a post on IdeaStorm.

Plenty of Clevo systems with the 7970m overheated and underperformed for months after its release. The new Alienwares might have similar issues with Optimus. As Dell spent money on a decent-looking cooling system in the first place, fixing the problem is in Dell's interest.

If you OC your GPU and it fails, warranty doesn't cover it. If you OC your GPU and the optical drive fails, warranty covers it.

The AW 18's CPU and GPU apparently run in the 50s in 3dmark11.

 

Wow 88C in 3dmark11? That thing is running toasty!

 

Often the upshot of an overclocked vbios is a dead card in which case there is no way to tell what is on it. If it is still operational you simply put the original back (to test it of course ). No logs tracking vbios versions AFAIK.

I called in a dead card and they simply replaced it - no investigation

 

OK, I just ran 3dm11 on my m17xr4 and then immediately on the 17 with the temp limit removed. The r4's fans come on nearly full blast almost immediately and the temp never gets higher than 68. The 17's fans stay quiet until the temp gets to 77 and then come in full blast. So, we definitely have a fan profile problem here. As for me, I'm going to keep the r4 and return the 17 because this is just not worth it and I'm not willing to wait it out to see how long it takes dell to fix this. Might try some 680m overclocking instead

The 88 degrees was with overclocking, so that's to be expected....

N
PS - not sure if i can do this, but if anyone wants this at my cost PM me.

 

If you were curious about fan speeds, you can use the 'Sensors' part of HWInfo to track the speed of the CPU & GPU fans. You should also be able to configure it to run at max fan RPM using that program too. That way, you will be able to work out your MAX fan RPM, and then compare that to the RPM you're getting when you're at 88degC; that way you know whether you're at max fan RPM. It's a bit long-winded, but easier to do than to explain!! Good that you've got it on a flat surface! ;-)

 

I think that's sensible, and its not a night & day performance difference between 680M and 780M, (it's 30% I think). And you can 'cure' all that by overclocking the nuts off your 680M!

 

Oddly, I don't see fan speeds in HWINFO - none at all - maybe too new or something? Using the latest beta....

 

I believe it only lists the fan speeds when the fans kick in. So, if you're just sitting at the desktop it won't list them if the fans aren't spinning at the time. If you run the 'Sensors' section of HWInfo and then use Prime 95 or Heaven Benchmark for CPU & GPU respectively, then look at HWInfo and hopefully it will be showing the fan speeds. For me, the fan speeds appeared right at the bottom of the sensor list, might be different for you.

 

Not going to lie, with all things I'm hearing about the 780 is really bugging me, but to be honest, the upgrade price to the 780 on AW website is cheaper by at least $150 compared to other companies, so I almost wonder if your paying for a less powerful 780? That or there hiding the rest of the upgrade cost somewhere else in the price to make it seem like your getting a deal on the 780 upgrade, just makes me wonder. Anyone have any ideas?

 

I think they'll sort out the throttling problems, it won't be good for their reputation if they don't. How long that will take & also if they will at all are the questions that we don't seem to have answers for at the moment. If you've already bought one, I wouldn't feel bad about it, they're still a good laptop; the price difference you talk about between Alienware & Others, and the current performance difference is best for you to weigh up which suits your need the most. If you've not bought one, might be best to wait it out to see if fixes come along!

(Just a thought, this 780M throttling problem in the A17, is it just an isolated problem that one person has experienced, or is it more widespread? I haven't noticed how many different people are having the same problem?)

 

This is what the 780M in the 3D AW17 did @stock

P7301

Generic VGA video card benchmark result - Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz,Alienware Alienware 17

 

Dell is probably the only OEM that put such low temperature limit on their machines. Neither MSI or Clevo suffer from any performance block once you hit 60 or 70s Celsius. It is ridiculous and beyond me why they do this. Modern GPUs have built in temperature sensors and a protective mechanism that shuts off the system or GPU if the temperature is too high.
66C for Alienware 17 with GTX 780M is retarded. It is plain BS and does not nearly cope with the reality of the temperatures expected with such high end GPU.

The way I see it: Alienware 17 is the least exciting of the three models. Sure it features a beautiful design, best there is compared to other gaming notebooks. The screen is decent, not terrible but not very good either. Alienware 14 and 18 got IPS screen. Alienware 17 got the same old R4 screen, only matte this time. This screen is also used on $1200 notebook. And that bugs the hell out of me.
So in my head the best choice is either get the 120Hz screen on the Alienware 17 and pray its a good one. Its a completely new one so fingers crossed. Or get Alienware 14 or 18 with IPS. Atleast for those who want a good screen.

Im totally with you on the 66C limit on the Alienware 17. That need to change or else im giving Dell the finger.

So you rather prefer more noisy fan with lower temps? 77C is pretty low temps for a beast like GTX 780M. Imo I rather game n temps like that but with lower noise but every man to himself
Im with you on the temperature limit though. Users shouldnt have to rely on modders like SVL to clean up Dell's mess

Slightly lower than what you should get but much better than the Optimus score on Alienware 17. We have figured it out, its because the temperature limit here is 77C compared to 66C on models with Optimus. So they guy you linked to didnt have much down throttling because the GPU is below the 77C limit and have bigger thermal room to operate on.
But I suspect some throttling occured because it is 300-400 GPU points below what it should be.

Do you have any information about the screen? What screen model is it? Please run AIDA64 and find out. Thanks

 

Here are some quick pics of the 120Hz 3D screen.

 

Looks like it has some nice wide viewing angles, colours seem to remain constant and not too washed out, but it's hard to tell from a photo - I bet it's better in person. Nice pics, Matt.

 

Yea, it looks better in person. Only way the angle is really bothersome is when the screen is open all the way and you're looking at it from the bottom. Only disappointment so far is that the glare is still relatively bad. Nowhere near as bothersome as my MB Pro, but it's very far from perfect.

 

My AW17 with GTX780m and 120 Hz 3D screen arrived today as well, so I'll add some brief remarks:

The vBIOS provided by Dell is crap, period. The abysmally low performance is inexcusable.

So I went on to install the custom vBIOS provided by svl7 on Tech Inferno right away. At least, no more mindless thermal throttling.

Scores did not exactly skyrocket with the custom BIOS either, though, which might partially be driver related. By modifying the .inf file, I could get 320.49 to install. It ran pretty well, but 3DVision did not work.

One unexpected and sad Observation is that the 780m (or, at least, my card) is a bad overclocker.

On stock voltage, I cannot achieve a higher stable oc than +100 core/+ 250 mem, which I consider rather disappointing. Raising the voltage helps some, but not much. At 1050 mV, it was still not running stable at +155 core/default Memory. I wonder whether the vBIOS still needs some optimization, or whether it's just my card.

Either way, highest score I got in 3DM11 with a stable OC and 320.49 was around 8200 (8450 graphics). A far cry from the promised 10.000 for sure, and just about the same score I get with my 680m.

Reverting back to the AW provided driver, I just scored 5021 (graphics 5538) in 3DMark Fire Strike Standard at +100/250 OC.

I have still not made up my mind whether I should keep the AW17 and sell my R4 or send the new one back. Performance wise, it's more or less an exact tie (with a slight advantage to the 680m even).

As for overall aesthetics, The AW17 looks more professional, at least with AlienFX turned off. I do not think that it looks better than the old design though.

Also, I don't understand why they dropped the Soundblaster Recon3Di for a generic Realtek chip.

BTW, anyone got an idea whether the new Broadcom WiFi is any better than the Killer-N?

 

Thanks for helping.

I dug up information about the screen. It is not new, Dell already use it on the Inspiron 17R SE
Source: http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-inspiron-dell-studio/675037-dell-17r-n7720-se-user-review-190-print.html

You can buy it on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1080p-3D-17-3-LCD-Screen-Samsung-LTN173HT02-D01-LTN173HT02-D02-WUXGA-FHD-0GN36T-/230961100586?pt=US_Laptop_Screens_LCD_Panels&hash=item35c65ab72a

Thats it, Dell offered no new display on the Alienware 17. Both 60Hz and 120Hz screen are already used on their cheap brand, Inspiron.
Alienware 14 and 18 are the only ones with new screen.

Im super dissappointed with Dell and not doing anything special for Alienware 17


Thanks for the pictures of the 120Hz display in action. It is suppose to have anti glare technology, True life, that offers something in between glossy and matte. But if you say the reflections are bad, im not sure if I want to buy it.


Edit: time out from me. I feel like im a major buzz killer here with my negativity. I need to reconsider alienware, atleast 17" with this new information I got.
*poff*

 

Wow, that looks almost as good as how things look on my screen...hang on...I am actually just looking at my screen! But no, viewing angles look absolutely fantastic on that 120Hz, and it's 120Hz, would love to have such a high refresh rate on mine. I'd turn down the settings & get those fps numbers up into the hundreds for those fast paced games! Nice screen.

 

I'm quite surprised your overclocked 780M gets the same score as you overclocked 680M. I know a 780M is just an overclocked 680M, but I would have expected the binning to have been better on average. EDIT: got this wrong, a 780M is an overclocked 680MX (which has a few more cores than the 680M).

All in all though, not much point upgrading from 680M to 780M, well at least not from a bang for your buck perspective!