Questions about 120 hz vs 60 hz refresh on new r3

Just wanted to hear if anyone knew the details on this screen Dell is offering. I have read some conflicting information online about how its useless... and others say its great.

My question is : Without 3D, will 120hz be 'better' for gaming and video play etc? Or is it just optimized for 3D vision ?

When I go to Bestbuy for example and look at a 120 hZ TV it looks incredible. Can I expect that kind of smoothness and sharpness from this screen ??

Im excited to get the r3 and see for myself but I thought I would ask to see if we can discuss 120 vs 60. I have no use for the 3D glasses or 3d vision I will probably leave it in the package and not even try it.

 

Yes, you will notice that it is running smoother assuming your video settings allow the frame rate to surpass 60 fps.

I'm honestly not sure what the average FPS the R3 will produce in modern games, but without dual graphics cards I would expect it takes somewhat of a compromise in the video settings (3D or not).

Also cinema-quality video will play back better since it's encoded at 24 fps. We know 120 is a multiple of 24, 60 is not. On a 120hz monitor video can be displayed at a 5:5 pulldown ratio, meaning 5 refreshes per frame, as opposed to an odd number that resulted in the screen being separated into stripes flashed at a very high frequency.

 

Very cool stuff that actually cleared up some confusing article I read. I just figured 120hz screens for tvs generally cost way more than 60 hz screens and that I was surprised to see the option with a 3d glass bundle for so little. I wanted to know if it's the real deal 120hz. So blueray movies should look epic on this screen?

 

This is real a 120hz-capable screen. 3D TV's are extremely expensive only because they can be, and early adopters will rush out and buy them (IE. SSD's a few years back).

Blu-ray movies will look awesome on the R3 if it's HDCP-compliant at 120hz. I really hope it is, and wonder if anyone could confirm in the near future. HDCP is basically built-in copy protection because the digital media industries need to drain money out of our wallets every step of the way (instead of focusing on actually making half decent films that people would actually be willing to pay for... but that's a topic for a completely different thread).

 

thats precisely what im trying to find out if its hdcp compliant at 120hz. if it is i think ill even opt for the blue ray player. if not theres no need i have a ps3.

 

Read on another forum that the 120Hz increases input lag

Post here

If you don't want to go to another link, here's a screenie:

 

There is lag on a TV because it has to take the HDMI input, and then wait for the second frame before interpolating the intermediate frame to achieve twice the framerate of the input.

On our computers this lag will NOT exist because there is no need for interpolation. The 120HZ screen is driven directly from the video card. Also, I doubt the laptop will do any interpolation so it probably won't do 120Hz with a 60Hz input like a TV.

The biggest unknown is the amount of ghosting that will occur with the 3D implementation on the Alienware. We won't know until we get some units to test with.

I would definitely recommend the bluray if you have the 3D especially since there is no confirmation that the HDMI input is 1.4 compliant.

If you want to read more about 3D, I suggest reading this blog and the review of the HP Envy 3D.

3D Vision Blog

 

That only applies to fake 120hz TV's, not real 120hz TVs.

Fake 120hz panels only accept 60hz but render a second frame in between to give the impression of smoother video.

Real 120hz panels actually accept 120hz signal, with no post-processing, and are thus '3D capable'.

True 120hz panels are much, much more responsive than traditional 60hz panels.

 

That's true for TVs, not monitors. I think what he (or she) is talking about is those TVs that are 120hz capable but merely upscale 60hz inputs into 120hz by duplicating frames. On monitors which accept 120hz input, there are 120 genuinely different frames.

I play TF2 A LOT on my 60hz monitor, but when I went to my cousin's house who has a 120hz monitor, I could feel a world of difference. I am able to play much better and see more that's happening. Since TF2 is an old game, my comp pushes out 100+ FPS, which is wasted on a 60hz monitor. Why spend so much for hardware that pumps out over 60FPS when you can only see 60? You really won't need to worry about screen tearing and having to use VSync on a 120hz monitor, since it's unlikely your fps will be over 120.

Not only that, but everything is much smoother. Even moving the icons on the desktop feels more fluid.

120hz is a no brainer for me anyways.

 

Yeah, exactly. You posted this as I was typing my reply haha.

 

Great points. One more that sold me on 120hz after owning a HP Envy 3D briefly... the screen is BRIGHTER. I think the display was measured at 420nits. The reason for this is that when you put on the shutter glasses, you are effectively getting 1/2 the light in each eye so the display has to be brighter to compensate.

Of course we won't know until we compare a 60Hz M17XR3 next to a 120Hz M17XR3.

 

i think the display will be a little brighter, but not likely as bright as the envy 17 3d (gorgeous display by the way). Reason for this is b/c the nvidia 3d glasses are not as dark as the Xpand version used by HP. If Dell uses the same 120hz screen as Hp I will be a very happy buyer.

 

I had an Envy 17 3D but returned it because of the heat issues. I had a chance though to play L4D2 and that new Lara Croft game in 3D. I let the Lara Croft game choose the graphics settings for my laptop and played it in 3D using the Tridef software. The game was UNPLAYABLE! compared to the same settings without 3D.

Maybe it was just my eyes. I hate playing on anything lower than 30 fps, but there was definitely a difference in frame rates between 2D and 3D. That's why i'm holding out for the r3 with either the 485 or 6970. I'm not convinced the 460m will be able to play most current games with regular settings and 3D

 

Well I just might be the only person who isn't too concerned with the difference between a 60Hz and 120Hz screen. Chalk it up to the fact that I'll probably have an external monitor hooked up to the thing.

I'm also one of "those types" who really can't see a major difference in DVD quality and Blu-Ray... I definitely can't justify the cost of $3-5 extra per movie when it comes to buying it on DVD or Blu-Ray.

 

If you can not see the difference I think you need to make a trip to your eye doctor.

 

When configuring M17r3 on the alienware website, you cannot get a non-3D 120Hz screen. Only 60Hz. Currently you have to order the 3D in order to get 120Hz and this option has the limitation of optimus autoswitching technology disable according to the manual on p50.

 

So let me ask this. When not playing 3D and on high settings I don't think the gtx460 Is strong enough to push 120fps in current games. What will happen ?

 

What do you mean? It will do whatever it would normally do... I would assume the GTX460 would be able to do at least 100 FPS on some games with decent settings, but most likely it will run 40-50 FPS normal.

Also, there's no such thing as a non-3D 120hz panel. If a panel can accept 120hz input, that is all that is needed. The screen hardware doesn't even sync with the glasses, the video drivers do.

The 3D shutters effectively cut the perceived FPS in half. If you're running 120hz, you will only see 60 FPS. Anything less will only get worse from there.

3D is a gimmick for the most part, it's kind of fun to play around with and maybe use for simple games like Left 4 Dead. 120hz panels on the other hand are definitely nice to have when 3D is disabled for movie playback and gaming.

 

i'll say wait and see.For now nobody here owns one so..

 

Doesn't bother me one bit lol

 

I am pretty sure the games still play at 60hz MAX with 3D enabled.

Each frame will be displayed TWICE, so the game still only needs 60FPS.

But since the graphics card has to process the same frame twice, it will lower the FPS. Don't assume that the game needs to play at 120 FPS to make 3D work. It is still 60FPS.

 

It's not an assumption, it's how it works. This isn't new technology. Let me try to explain it:

Normally a game needs to render only 60 frames per second. With 3D enabled, it needs to render those 60 frames for each eye. That's 120 frames per second.

Since every second frame is blocked for one eye, your brain will only register a maximum of 60 FPS. Since the frames open and close too fast for our eyes to pick up, we will see the image in 3D.