I'm still reasonably happy with my R2 but lately I have noticed that the 5870 cards I have just don't have grunt the used to. I can usually compromise with some settings for an enjoyable gaming experience depending on the game but I think I've finally decided it's time to upgrade.
Purchasing a new laptop just isn't in the budget but I think a video card upgrade should extend the R2's life for a while.
Originally I considered the AMD 7970M from a bang for buck point of view but after doing some reading around on the forums it seems there are reports of random / high temp shut downs which turned me off - especially living in a warmer climate. On top of that, I've found driver support for AMD cards to be little lacking compared with NVIDIA cards and some developers do not equally collaborate with AMD/NVIDIA when making a game.
The GTX 680M is a little pricier but I think it's going to be a choice I'll be more pleased with in the long run.
I'm more than likely looking at purchasing via upgradeyourlaptop (eBay) - Alienware M17x M18x VGA Upgrade Kit NVIDIA GTX 680M 4GB DDR5 MXM 3 0B | eBay
However, I also saw this post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/com...vidia-680m-2gb-w-new-x-bracket-backplate.html
So, after browsing the forums I had some questions that I was hoping the more enlightened here can assist me with:
- What (if any) are the impacts as a result of the difference between the 680M 2GB and 680M 4GB ?
- I understand that the 4GB card has the VRAM on both sides - is this an issue in the R2? Does it require thermal pads on the underside (non-heatsink side) as well or something else? Are there any issues with contact / cooling?
- I had read that the 680M is essentially plug and play in an R2 and fan control is automatic on a non-XM processor. I have an i7 820QM so fans control should be automatic and not require HWInfo? Is this correct?
- I have seen it mentioned to keep an eye out for the 'Dell' branded cards but I have not seen (m)any around online. What are the practical differences if I choose to purchase from upgradeyourlaptop or is there a 'better' retailer / seller available with a Dell branded card?
Thanks heaps in advance for any assistance.
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
I can help a little from the research I did looking into a 680 upgrade.
1. Unless you intend to run multi-monitors it makes no difference - more of a numbers game.
2. The X-bracket has a cooling plate - not seen I one just read it...
3. Totally where, hopefully' an R2 owner can chime in
4. The advantage of a dell branded one is the the vBios will be Dell with a better chance of compatibility - although it's a simple task to change the vBios.
The reseller usually supplies a modded driver so it recognises your system, you'll pretty much only get dell branded directly from them.
HTH -
Thanks for that.
Not sure I understand the response on 2. - are you referring to something separate from the X-Bracket ?
I know the 5870s don't have RAM on both sides and from memory, the card sits just over the fan - while the RAM on the top side is covered with thermal paste and the heat sink. So, still trying to understand what I'd need to be conscious of with the 4GB version having potentially exposed RAM on the underside. I think I read that someone had put thermal pads on the underside RAM but eventually removed it - (unfortunately I can't find that post now). -
(Accidental double post)
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Main thing is the core, if there is tape on the heatsink around this area best to remove it. It does not appear to do anything except mark out the area for contact and will get in the way if the core is larger on the new card. -
As MickyD said the extra memory is mainly for multidispay setups, wont make a difference in gaming. However I did read the vBIOS out there for the clevo cards make it slightly more agressive
The 780m cards are right around the corner as well if you can be bothered to wait a couple more months, but the 680m has been tested and works fully -
Fair enough, thanks to both of you for your responses.
Not in a huge rush here - I'm considering waiting for the 780m, if only to see a drop in the price of the 680m.
From what little I can/can't see on the forums - it seems that there isn't an issue with my R2, processor and auto fan control (and even if there is, I guess I can deal with it via HWInfo). -
1. so how did it go? did you upgrade your R2 to gtx 680m already? i have an R2 too and im planning on upgrading my 5870 (no crossfire) to 680 sli. so, is there any heat issues on the 680m?
2. how much cpu can i go to? i want the fastest and latest if possible
3. and can i upgrade my RAM to 16gb or 32gb? i have 6gb right now -
@eyesman - 1. I did this exact upgrade and have had no heat problems whatsoever.
2. I'm using a 920XM, would've got the 940XM had I found a good price for one at the time.
3. You can upgrade to 16GB. -
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Although, Heatshiver - does that mean you're using HWInfo for fan control ? -
help pls
1. just bought a new cpu i7 3740QM, is that gonna work on my m17x r2?
2.are the RAM slots of m17x r3/r4 the same as m17x r2? coz i cant find any 2 8GB ram for m17x r2, help pls? ty.
http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Alienw...890&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=m17x+r2+16gb+memory
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Venge...2A1600C10/dp/B0076W9Q5A/ref=pd_sim_sbs_misc_1
3.is the corsair RAM goin to work on m17x r2? -
help pls
1. just bought a new cpu i7 3740QM, is that gonna work on my m17x r2?
2.are the RAM slots of m17x r3/r4 the same as m17x r2? coz i cant find any 2 8GB ram for m17x r2, help pls? ty.
http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Alienw...890&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=m17x+r2+16gb+memory -
Although, Heatshiver - does that mean you're using HWInfo for fan control ?[/QUOTE]
i dont use HWinfo for fan control, should i? -
2. both memory modules will work.
please keep yourself on topic, or find a correct one and post there. -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
Asking after buying something... ram will work but the speed is limited by the first gen core i7.
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I think a bit of research before doing any purchasing would be a very good idea. -_+
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Bringing back an old topic to ask another question and close it off.
I was really hoping the 780m would work out for the R2 but the awesome work done by Flingin (essentially being a guinea pig) shows it's not meant to be - at least for now.
So, I've decided to finally pull the trigger on the 680m and I'm reasonably happy with that and am looking forward to it being (hopefully) a big bump in performance over the 5870XF.
The question I had was one of flashing system bios - I'm assuming I need to do use this ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...r2-bios-mod-need-suggestions-future-mods.html) to ensure the 680m works?
Or is it simply a matter of (gently) ripping out the 5870s and popping the new 680m (upgrade kit, everything included), installing the modded drivers and being good to go?
Thanks in advance. -
The 680m should be plugnplay and good to go and I wouldn't use the A10 modified bios your choice, I used it and found nothing beneficial so using A9. Which brand 680m are you buying? (check ram size for this) The clevo (4GB version) should be no probs however, I did read some fan compatibility issues with 920/940xm..read more here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-17-m17x/681481-will-2gb-4gb-680m-work-m17x-r2.html
Let us know how it all goes.Killiandros likes this. -
Thanks heaps! I'm really looking forward to this now, it'll be nice to bump some settings up that make the 5870s slow down (like shadows).
I had read through that thread so I'm hopeful that I don't need to use HWInfo for the fans. I still have an i7-840QM and it seems that the fans can be auto controlled with non-XM CPUs. The CPU will probably be the last upgrade I do, perhaps later in the year / early next year - (I see from your sig that you're upgrading CPU soon?)
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...ll-2gb-4gb-680m-work-m17x-r2.html#post8763840
Even if it's not auto fan control, it's just a preference rather than a huge issue. I'd just rather everything automagically () functioned without need of manual workarounds.
I'm going for the 4GB version and plan on leaving the RAM on the underside exposed as well - at least initially - and monitoring temperatures as I recall reading in someone's post that it was fine - instead of putting pads on it. I noticed in that thread you're after a VBIOS so if you'd like me to upload mine when I receive it just let me know.
I have a Killer wireless card on the way as well as I figured that if I was opening it up I might as well upgrade that too. Recently purchased 8GB of RAM and a 256GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD as well so I'm thinking this keeps the R2 chugging away comfortably for a while longer.
Also, assuming I should be running either 3D mark, Furmark or Unigine to test the card once received? Anything else I should run / look for? -
Ok, in need of some help here.
The 680m arrived today, however there was no X-Bracket in the pack but it did come with the screws, thermal pads & paste.
The 5870m X-bracket looks like it would fit over the top of the 680m but there doesn't seem to be any way to take the screws out of the x-bracket (the screws for the 5870 look larger) and I'm very hesitant to cut them off in case that doesn't fly with the 680m and I need to put the 5870s back in.
Edit: Incidentally, the X-bracket that I have looks like it's actually part of the heatsink - so even if I had the nVidia x-bracket, I'm not sure how I would apply it.
Edit 2: Ok, maybe I'm a bit of a doofus here. Could the x-bracket already be on the bottom of the nVidia card? I thought the x-bracket was the bit that went on top and was connected to the heatsink. Still not sure on the screw size problem though.
So in short, would really really appreciate some assistance here. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Hi, maybe some pics would help identify what you are seeing.
The x bracket sits on the underside of the card and creates a 'sandwich' of the card between the heatsink and the x-bracket. They all seem to have the same mounting centres and people have reused them, but I was told that the x-bracket is specific to the card. Not because of the mounting centres but the height of the posts which can be different between GPU's.
The x-bracket could already be attached to the new card as they usually have adhesive on them to keep them in place.
Can you not undo the original screws?Killiandros likes this. -
Thank you. Yes, I'm sure that would absolutely help.
Here we go:
The listing (which includes the x-bracket which I don't think I have unless it's already on the underside of the card - see attached image of card below):
Alienware M17X M18X VGA Upgrade KIT Nvidia GTX 680M 4GB DDR5 MXM 3 0B | eBay
Screws on heatsink that don't seem to be removable.
The card itself:
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MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Well I can see the problem now
. The heatsink has captive screws. The x-bracket is attached to the card so that is good. What you need to do is see if the captive screws have the same thread as the x-bracket. They will screw in easily without any resistance if the thread matches. Do NOT force or you could end up with a useless card and or heatsink.
It looks like there is a c-clip holding the screws in place so prising these off (needle nose pliers may help) should release the screws if you need to use the new screws.
If there is any tape around the GPU core area on the heatsink you should remove this as the core will probably be a different size and could get in the way of making good contact.
HTHKilliandros likes this. -
Yeah. Already tried to check if the existing screws would fit but they're too large - so I definitely need the smaller screws included with the 'upgrade kit' supplied.
Ok good, so the x-bracket is already on there - good to know.
So the only challenge is in getting those clips off now.
Thanks very much for your speedy help MickyD - will post an update when I can get them off (not 'if', it's going to happen!). -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Cool, good luck. If they are the 'e' clip type then you may be able to see a gap around the middle of the clip circumference. You can prise here with a very small screwdriver as well...
Killiandros likes this. -
I had no pliers appropriate for the task so spent time carefully stabbing my finger with a screwdriver - oh yes, and eventually getting lucky and prying them off.
Initial boot up gave me moderate heart stoppage with a black screen and a white line along the bottom so I took it apart again, re-seated the card, checked everything else and it was perfect on the second attempt. Just installing modded drivers now and I'll put it through its paces.
Last question - what's the best way of determining that the card is issue free etc. in terms of tests?
Would it just be a matter of running 3D mark, Furmark or Unigine etc. ? -
Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet
EDIT: I'd stay away from Furmark, it tends to put unrealistically high loads on GPU's, resulting in unnaturally high currents through the card.Killiandros and MickyD1234 like this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Dell now use unigine when testing cards so I would go with that. Just leave it running for 15-30 mins. Furmark is probably too much and has been said to damage cards. 3D mark if you have comparable numbers to check.
I would start with 314.22 driver as this is the most stable of late. This will make sure you are not chasing any driver issues, but the latest may work fine for you - it's getting a lot of bad press though. You also get to see if the later driver is actually any better (but you've probably already decided on which version and installed it)
Use msiafterburner and set-up monitoring on the OSD (in settings). You can then see clock speeds, frame rates, and temperature in-game. Any question over the quality of your paste/pad job will show up quickly with temps over 70c at stock. They can run hotter than this quite happily but for me I like to keep a mobile GPU below 70C. Most people I have seen with the 680m talk around the high 60'sC under load.Killiandros likes this. -
I think i broke into a sweat getting those damn things off. Heh.
Thanks guys, genuinely appreciate the thoughts and assistance. I didn't have much opportunity to put it through its paces tonight so I'll focus on that tomorrow. A very quick look showed 71C under load on HWinfo with the most recent driver in the thread below.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...-m17x-r2-680m-driver-assistance-needed-7.html
Didn't experience any issues but I rolled back to the one you suggested. The multitude of drivers available for Nvidia vs AMD is a little overwhelming at first glance but I'll take regular driver updates over one every 3 months with no issue. I think I'll aim to find something with good performance for the MMOs I'm currently playing and settle there (FFXIV and The Secret World).
More fiddling to come tomorrow. Also popped in a killer wireless 1103 card i'd picked up while I had the laptop opened up and that is working without a hitch. -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
Well it depends on how you look at it really, nvidia only recently added the 780M to official driver packages months after release (same thing for the 680 and 580) so neither company is perfect.
Killiandros likes this. -
MickyD1234 Notebook Prophet
Killiandros likes this. -
Kudos to kilandros for getting it up and running.
Yeah the c-clips are ghoulish and once removed allow you to put in the 7970m or the 680m with ease. Just make sure you use the correct screws for the card.
Best drivers are found here for 680m courtesy of the wonderful Mr Tonrac
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...-installed-oced-lets-have-96.html#post9370238Killiandros likes this. -
Fair enough re. drivers AMD vs. Nvidia.
Thanks for the recommendation tron2^, am currently on the 326.19 drivers and they're working relatively well. Will check out the 326.80 version over the weekend at some stage.
Just had an opportunity to run some tests and I'd appreciate any thoughts you guys have.
Test: Unigine Heaven Benchmark 4.0
Snap shot results:
FPS: 37.8
Score: 953
Min FPS: 14.6
Max FPS:77.6
Platform: Windows 7 (build 7601, Service Pack 1) 64bit
CPU model: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU Q 820 @ 1.73GHz (1729MHz) x4
GPU model: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680M 9.18.13.2680 (4095MB) x1
Render: Direct3D11
Mode: 1920x1200 fullscreen
Preset Custom
Quality High
Tessellation: Disabled
HWInfo Log during benchmark:
View attachment HWInfo 326-19 Drivers Heaven Benchmark Log.txt
It seemed relatively smooth throughout with the only dip sub-30FPS being at the very beginning.
I'd be keen on seeing someone else with a 680m run the Unigine Heaven test above for a comparison / reference point if they wouldn't mind.
( Download Heaven Benchmark | Unigine: real-time 3D engine (game, simulation, visualization and VR))
Supposedly with my CPU (i7-820QM here) I should have automatic fan control - but the HWInfo log I captured while benchmarking Unigine Heaven seemed to indicate negligible fan speed increase as the temperature increased. (i.e. no higher than ~2550RPM).
Completely idle I'm sitting at ~27C (fans @ ~2450RPM) which seems great.
Under load with fans apparently locked to no higher than ~2550RPM I got to 74C which is relatively encouraging too. Although I'm sure that if I'd let the benchmark loop longer that temperature would have continued to creep up.
So that seems it leaves me with needing to use HWInfo's manual fan control in the upper temperature ranges. Ideally I'd love to have auto fan control but I'm not sure how others have achieved this with similar/same systems.
Looking at HWInfo for now, I'm at a loss as far as creating a manual temperature/fan lookup table so would appreciate any pointers for this. i.e. When it gets to 40C it should be xxxRPM etc. Is the default table appropriate for use?
Edit: Ok, with the default fan control scheme in HWInfo I top out at 67C under load in benchmark and it doesn't get any higher. Is it worth creating a more aggressive fan profile where the fans spin up earlier at lower temps? -
Hey killandros,
My 7970m in the m17xr2 has 3 fan speeds for the gpu. Low, medium and high. I tend to get no higher than 68-70C on load with 3d games.
You should be able to notice the loudness of high gpu fan speed for me its really noisy and would prefer medium fan speed(less noisy).
The cpu has less noise and from memory not sure if it has 2 profiles or 3 like gpu. Hwinfo needs to be tweaked and monitored so best of luck with it.Killiandros likes this. -
I tested it, and i failed, this is why you can see me selling 780m in my sig (already sold)Killiandros and tron2^ like this. -
At the moment the I'm using the default of going up in 10C / 500RPM increments and it's keeping things nice and cool. GPU topping out at 67C under load so I'm happy with that.
Nothing seems overly noisy and even at the highest fan speed seems quieter than when I had the 5870XF in there. I've also unplugged the second GPU fan as I didn't think there was a need to have it working - plus it did sound louder working on an empty space.
Still a bit bummed that I have to rely on HWInfo for fan control but given it's working pretty well I've got no major complaints. I guess the next upgrade will be an XM CPU at some stage. (920XM / 940XM - the 920XM is almost half the price of the 940XM that I can find so I'm debating price / performance benefit).
Still, thanks again for your efforts in testing (read: being a guinea pig) for the rest of us - definitely appreciated.
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Is there a way you can create an auto-flash backup USB key?
I'd hope that an attempted flash doesn't brick your card and you can still recover from it.
Incidentally, your signature shows you already having a 7970m in your R2?
Out of curiosity how do you find the performance between that and the 680m comparatively? I've looked at several of the synthetic benchmark reviews and they seem to be relatively on-par with each other.
If you proceed, good luck - I'll have my fingers crossed for you!
Also - just installed the 331.40 drivers here ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...m-driver-assistance-needed-7.html#post9390203) and feel like there's a noticeable improvement and smoothness vs. the other driver releases I've tried.basshyde likes this. -
Not sure with auto flash usb. Could be possible but never tried. Dont have the guts to do anything as i am happy with the setup for now
The performance between the two is interesting to say the least and is not as you would expect after reading the reviews between the two.
The nvidia is smoother experience but interstingly the IQ i prefer the amd. Somehow nvidia puts effects on their drivers i think its called physx and i am not sure i like it. I was on 6990 for 2 yrs and was very comfortable with that IQ.
The 7970m is a screamer tho. It really helps the r2 reach its zenith. I like it alot and enjoy the amd experience on it.
But fps wise i feel the experience is smoother on nvidia. Its hard to describe but both cards run extremely cool prob due to 28nm fab production. This means my clevo with 680 hardly makes any fan noise when running games. On the other hand the aliemware r2 is very loud on 3d games so much that it washes out the lovely audio experience of the r2.
Anyway both are great but different experiences.Killiandros likes this. -
Hey all, I just purchased a M17x R2 from a friend and I am giving it an overhaul so it can (hopefully) handle newer games. Right now it has 4 GB of RAM, 750 GB HDD, and a Nvidia GTX 260M. So far I have ordered 16 GB of RAM to be added to it and now I am looking to change the GPU. After some research I have narrowed it down to the Nvidia GTX 580M and the Nvidia GTX 680M, but am leaning more towards the 680M after reading this thread and some others.
I was wondering if anyone in here had any recommendations, comments, or advice heading into the process of changing the GPU. Thanks everyone, every comment is appreciated! -
Congratulations on your purchase. I still think the R2 is a great machine - as do many others in the NBR forums.
Whenever someone asks me about which specs to go for in a laptop or desktop I always come back with 'how much do you want to spend?' That's what it comes down to as far as I'm concerned.
The 680m will be better than the 580m and I imagine there are plenty of benchmarks found via Google etc. to indicate the difference in performance but this might be worth a quick skim: Nvidia GeForce GTX 680M compare Nvidia GeForce GTX 580M GPU
I'm really happy with the 680m and there were some friendly and supportive people in this thread who helped me with questions/installation/issues etc.
I only have two disappointments with the 680m - one is that I've still needed to use HWInfo for fan control (not really intrusive when it auto starts minimised though) - and some weird issue that shows one line item in HWinfo showing Temp1 under Alienware m17x-R2 EC as a constant 63C when everything else is the 30C range. After some investigation I've seen other people have seen this with HWinfo but there's no resolution I was able to find - which means the fans run slightly higher than they should - but it's not very noticeable.
I'm happy to put up with a couple of quirks to still have a stable, high performing machine using a video card it was never designed to run with.
In short, go with whatever's in your budget for the performance you want. You may also want to consider the dual 7970m route as well for a point of comparison.basshyde likes this. -
I looked at the dual 7970m route as well, but deemed the 680m as a better and a little safer option (this is my first time changing a GPU). Hmm, I am hoping that maybe those heating issues don't come up for me as well - even if they do, they seem manageable.
Thank you for the info, I will be sure to post updates with how the instillation goes! Hopefully I took all of the necessary precautions and that my computer will come out a real beast. Looking to the future, I might consider a 680M SLI - if that proves to be possible.
I am really glad that this seems to be worth the effort. I am sure I will have an update on here in the upcoming few days. Thank again! -
Have you looked at these benchmarks? Review Update: Radeon HD 7970M vs. GeForce GTX 680M - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
A single 7970M and 680M are pretty much on the same level of performance, and I don't think that you need any fan control through HWInfo with the 7970M - however I may be wrong. Also down the line if you think you are up to it, you will always have the option to put in a second 7970M :thumbsup: -
One word of advice buy a clevo branded 7970m or 680m.
Thnx me later -
The card itself runs very cool idle at about 30C and never goes over ~67C under full load. -
I'm looking forward to unleashing the beastly R2Killiandros likes this. -
Hey everyone, I'm kinda new here and just purchased the very same card as Killiandros
We have the same laptop specs as well. (though I'm coming from 1 dead slave 5870m and a dying main 5870m. also, my main drive is a 120GB vertex3) x_x
I would like to thank you all for the information here, I would have never had the courage to go through with this upgrade is not for all this reading. ^_^
Really excited now, it's going to be my first time doing this, such a noob, hope things work out Xp
In any case, is there any definitive guide (for noobs like me) for a full installation guide with drivers links and recommendations coming from a fresh reformat?
Thanks everyone!
Any info would be appreciated!
(I'm still crack nervous about removing and repasting heatsink X_X) -
Congratulations on your purchase!
I wouldn't have had the courage to do this either without all the support from the NBR community.
I'd recommend taking a look at the m17x r2 teardown videos here if you're uncomfortable / unfamiliar with opening your Alienware:
Alienware M17x R1 & R2 Full System Disassembly (Part 1) - YouTube
Alienware M17x R1 & R2 Full System Disassembly (Part 2) - YouTube
It's actually not as scary as you might think - and you get faster each time you do it.
For drivers, I'd recommend this thread - it's regularly updated:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...m-driver-assistance-needed-8.html#post9519470
As far as my experience removing my 5870s and popping in the 680m - it was all relatively straightforward until I got to those damn screws (which you'll be able to see via pics a couple of pages back).
Once you've installed the new video card, a fresh format should be simple - however, if you don't want to format you could always try the Driver removal tool in the thread I posted above and there is an option to completely remove all drivers if you are installing a new video card. This would let you keep everything as is, install the hardware, reboot into windows and install the NVidia drivers - however you never know what could be left behind and I think I remember reading someone was getting blue screens with this method but it was all hunky dory after a clean windows install.
If you have any questions feel free to sing out here and I'll help as much as I can.
Good luck and let us know how you go!basshyde likes this. -
Thanks for those links they really helped!
And those screws! Really had to cut through them but oh well,
Would like to inform you that installation seems successful!
Though I had to manually control fan speeds via HWinfo as well.
Query, does the latest NVIDIA driver and geforce experience work with our unit?
Also, have you also experienced noticeable slowdown at BIOS startup?
EDIT / UPDATE: CRITICAL help needed X_X
after a couple of days with a working laptop (games and everything), I tried to update the NVIDIA drivers just a while ago from 302.xx (the one provided by eurocom) to the latest one available (I used driver assistance thread). It worked for a while but after finishing a Heaven benchmark and closing it, the screen suddenly went blank. I turned the power off then turned back on but it doesn't even show the alien head logo at the beginning. Keyboard lights are up, alienhead lights are up and num/caps lights work.
There are no beeps nor flashing lights.
I can see that the screen still (probably) works because the I could still use Fn to dim or brighten it.
Its just that nothing appears.
help please!
Questions on upgrading m17x R2 - 5870CF to GTX 680M
Discussion in 'Alienware 17 and M17x' started by Killiandros, Mar 30, 2013.