R2 replaced with R3 - Fair?

My apologies if this doesn't deserve its own thread. Please feel free to merge/move it where it needs to be.

I've gone through a bit of a fiasco since mid-January that started with a simple Blu-ray player replacement. I'm happy to give more details but I'll say for now that I've been without my m17x-R2 (see sig) for nearly 6 weeks. After a considerable amount of back and forth with the AW/Dell folks on the phone a replacement has been approved and they are starting to build it now.

Below are the specs:

1 225-0536 Alienware M17x Soft-Touch, Stealth Black
1 310-0173 Airborne Documentation, System Exchanges,Factory Install
1 317-6115 Intel Core i7 2820QM 2.3GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Mode, 8MB Cache)
1 317-6119 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz (4DIMMS)
1 318-0396 Slot-Loading Dual Layer Blu-ray Reader (BR-ROM, DVD+-RW, CD-RW)
1 318-0424 Internal High-Definition 5.1 Surround Sound Audio
1 320-1933 17.3-inch WideFHD1920 x 1080 60Hz WLED
1 320-1939 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon HD 6970M
1 330-0171 S and P Drop-in-Box Marcom forDHS Notebooks
1 331-1347 Alienware M17x 240W A/C Adapter
1 342-2220 750GB 7,200RPM HDD
1 420-9691 DataSafe Local BackUp
1 421-1399 Genuine Windows 7 Professional, 64bit, English
1 421-1721 Soft Contracts Service Hardware Agreement for Alienware
[I cut out what looked like the useless parts and such for easier reading.]

Is this about as powerful as my old unit or is it an upgrade? I know I'm getting: Sandy Bridge, DX11 support w/tessellation, and the ability to add more RAM. Is there anything I'm missing? Is there anything worse on this unit besides the smaller screen compared to my old one?

I'm just a tad edgy because I know if I bought this unit it would be at least a grand less than what I paid for my original one. Bit of a bummer there.

Or should I just shush up and be happy that I'm getting a laptop back? Give me some piece of mind, fellow NBRs!

 

I would be happy with that replacement personally. Very happy.

 

As I poke around on the web some more and educate myself on what I'm getting I think this thread might be pointless.

That and I seriously respect your opinion, scook.

 

dido, I'd be happy too

 

The 6970m should be able to consistently beat the pair of 4870s in both benchmarks and games. While using less power

You also get a very good CPU and switchable graphics as well as a much easier to maintain laptop design as far as accessing parts.

 

Oooo, I didn't know about the easier access part. Although that makes sense since there is more room due to there being one less graphics card. Not that I do a ton of upgrades but I will have to pop back in the SSD when it gets here.

And possibly upgrade the RAM to 16GB in the future.

Okay ... feeling a megaton better about this whole thing. I think all the talk about future stuff and m17x-R3 = the new m15x was poking me a bit when it really shouldn't have.

 

That is a very good replacement. Top GPU and CPU (for the R3). I'm excited for you to get it, and I'll link to this thread for sure whenever someone brings up the "My XXX got replaced with this XXX" argument. Get some benchmarks up when you get a chance, and congratulations.

 

Wonder if they could modify a 120Hz screen in there, with the 6970M.

 

^ even if they could, I think that will disable the IGP on the 6970 configuration..

 

That is correct, the IGP cannot run a 120Hz screen at all, that is the reason that optimus is removed if you have the GTX 460m with the 120Hz screen.

 

well... i personally think (as i saw ssd in ur sig) that if they take one -they should give you one back as well.
other than that, depends on what you need the laptop for. if it is desktop replacement,60 hz screen is nowhere close to RGB LED on R2 (which is fantastic btw)
in case if you want it to be more portable you definitely need the r3, hell, in my own case i would swap r2 for r3 only for portability, this thing is biiig and i still need to manage to move it once a week (which is bit of pain ) but not gonna sell it

p.s. if you can, get red color, i think it looks much better.

 

Ah, good. Now I feel even better about pulling the trigger on this post.

I must say that when the rep read off the specs I was a bit shocked. Especially after a rep told me last week that I'd be getting an R2 refurb.

 

The SSD is his. He will be sending back to dell with the original hard disk.

 

Yup, spot on.

Mine is actually still at the repair depot right now. I'm sure I'll never see it again.

I'm a little worried about that as I do use the screen about half the time. That RGB LED was frickin' SWEET. The other half of the time it's plugged into our 50" plasma TV and only for gaming.

I don't travel with it too much but having a lighter rig is always a plus.

I dig the black. I'm an understated kinda dude.

 

You cant compare R2 and R3, but what else can you ask for? Your R3 is almost loaded (lack of SSD but you can always buy one). LOL. Be happy dude.

 

ah =) makes sense then) and also i just noticed he had 4870s CF, so yea, 6970m is way to go.
btw, any idea of how does it OC? Some people say OCing is locked on HW level
max benchies in 3dmark06 for example with that config is 18500, where as mine can do 23k easily.

 

Couldn't agree more at this point.

And I do have an Intel X-25 just waiting for the R3 to get here.

 

you do realize that you are trying to use a 5 year old bench that is CPU limited to compare 2 modern systems right.....and stock your system does the same as his, but he has 1 GPU

You should be able to OC the GPU just fine, only the CPU has limitations. Fortunately it is already a monster at stock. Your cpu compared to his, stock speeds on both, his will whoop yours pretty good - never mind the MUCH lower power usage and heat

 

in all fairness, scook you also do realize that all these tests are "syntetic", that there also is difference in having 1 gpu vs 2 gpu (even when same output power) as there is difference in calculating capabilities (they work differently)
plus, as you read around the forum, repasted and OCed 920xm can put out enough power to be compared to sandy bridge cpus, isnt this just about right, mate ?

p.s. my posts are not related to comparing r2 vs r3 (which is illogical in core), I only point out technical performance of both systems

 

do you really need the system now. if not try holding out till the M18x come out, that would be the right replacement in my mind. r3 is nice but i think the 920 should be replaced with 2920xm and duo card should be replaced with duo cards. imho

 

The advantages in calculating power are overcome by the difference in memory bandwidth and architecture efficiency. Additionally, DX11 performance is MUCH higher with the 6000 series vs the 5000 series (particularly tessellation).

Yes an OC'd 920xm can match/exceed a stock SB part, but that is not really a fair comparison is it . Also when overclocked, the consumption of the 920xm is dramatically higher than the SB part, as is the heat. Nor do we have any data on how these perform when the turbo settings and other stuff is tweaked with yet.

 

While I agree 110% with this statement, it could be a while before we see an M18x.

 

Look that M17x r3 is faster then his M17x R-2 and offers DX 11. Its new and shiny, I would personally take the trade in a heart beat for the battery and power.

Its a better deal so there.

 

Yeah, and I don't really get to pick. I don't think anyone over at Dell is gonna get my drift if I call back and say, "So hey ... no hurry! Feel free to wait until ... I dunnoooo ... late June."

 

You do want to bargain on this topic, dont you?
well here it is:
A) TheWiz to my knowledge is working on additional gpu support for R2 (rumor right?)
B) DirX 11 caps are welcome as long as CPU can support gpu in calculating processes, as even cf 5870s have trouble on ultra settings in some most demanding games, which in this case is not bad dirx11 support, but rather lack of power to output the best performance. Tesselation is a little PRO but... -> (also i believe I'm not the only person who knows that you can see difference in dirx11 and prev. generation dirx, as well as 5xxx vs 6xxx support ONLY ON EQUAL SETTINGS, and we both know R3 was not designed for max performance, was it?)
point being: you do not get to see the dirx11 support as much as you state because of the fact that r3 config differs from r2 config (as well as market segments they are in)

 

You win some and you lose some but overall not a bad deal:

Gains:

• Sandy Bridge CPU
• Newer chipset that supports sata 3.0 and usb 3.0
• Faster single GPU (no xfire hassles and therefore less driver headaches)
• Thinner and lighter system
• Increased battery life and mobility

Losses:

• Throttlestop supported CPU. 920xm will beat what they gave you when coupled with TS but at a cost of heat management.
• RGB LED. The R3 WLED doesn't seem very good in comparison based on reviews I've read.
• Lesser build quality. You're getting a rubber system in exchange for a metal one. The rubber tends to peel off quite easily.
• DangerClose noted the R3 CPU throttles.
• Crossfire 5870M upgrade would have given you a system as fast/faster than the R3 with better build + display.
• Potential 6970M support if TheWiz adds it in to a modded bios though I'd personally say the chances of this are about 10-20%.

If I was in a similar position I'd go with the R3 overall. It's newer, you get a very fast single GPU and who doesn't like to test out newer stuff? I'll probably order an R3 with a 6970M soon for a review and then sell it shortly afterward.

 

hahah yeah i know what you mean. i went through a similar problem with my M15x, but i ended up with a full refund instead. i just ordered an r3 last week and saved myself $1k.

 

Better CPU
Better GPU
A little worse screen

I`d hit it

 

5150Joker:
How is the 2820QM not faster than 920XM? Even if you overclock it and get it to par up with 2820QM, you will end up with hotter, louder, draw more power than the SB CPU.

 

I have an M11X R2 with the same covering, its not the same as the Asus rubber covering. I actually love it and think it feels nice, and isnt cheap as the Asus covering.

Where are you getting this information? From what I read it seems to be speculation based on Asus experience and people who say it seems the same as the Razer mouse.

Unless yer taking screwdrivers, knives and keys loose in your bag, I dont see it ripping, peeling or cracking like everyone seems to believe lately. It seems more like it got thrown out there and is accepted. I could be a 100 percent wrong and you could probably find a ton of M11X r2 users who have rubber cracking, but I havent seen it yet on my system and I havent really seen it as a problem mentioned when talking about the M11x R2.

I think the Ano Alum is much better design wise. Its slicker to look at imo and more wear preventive, but the soft touch is not just some crap rubber they tossed on. I think its pretty sweet and not crappy or low quality at all.

 

@ Comrade_Ynot
point was: rubber covering is not Anodized Aluminum, completely different quality. You can't compare that unless you've owned a R2
@ Cloudfire: such "tests" are quite useless for two reasons:
#1 - gpu used in those tests for each processor differ, therefore, comparison is not equal
#2 - gaming perfomance of r3 with 6970m is well known fact, as much as it is well known fact that OCed 920xm can match/overcome it.
these are just two different systems and you cannot argue if one is better than another, DIFFERENT.

 

Because the 2820qm is still constrained by it's TDP, it wouldn't keep up with a 920xm set at say 90W+. As I mentioned, heat is an issue and it would most certainly require a heatsink mod to offset that so it's not for everyone. But the potential for a faster 920xm is there vs any SB selection on an R3. I run mine at 90W 24/7 and it's 100% stable.

I just ordered an R3 with the following specs:
CPU: 2630qm
Ram: 4gb
Screen: 17.3" WLED 1080p
GPU: AMD 6970M
Wifi: Intel 6300

They gave me a free razer orochi mouse + $100 off for a total of $2044. Not bad and I'll likely sell it after I do a full review and teardown of it.

There's been a few people who have had the rubber peel off already on NBR. I don't have the links handy but I can find them and update the post later.

Edit: Here's one of them: http://forum.notebookreview.com/7218333-post1.html

 

The only question you have to ask yourself is if you should wait until June to hear from a possible M18X. I know if I had not given away my M17X to my brother I would have waited which is why I got the same M17X R3 as you configured.

I feel, I may still get an M18X 6 months after its release to wait for possible defects. I just hope they do not repeat all the issues they had with the M17X R1.

Anyways, that's my thought, if you can wait until June and then make your choice.

 

1. Hothardware tested 920XM with GTX 280M, which is better than Intel 3000. If any, 920XM scores should benefit from that.
2. I agree that they are different, but show me some scores or tests that show OC 920XM to be better than 2820QM. Like i said, the benefits of 2820QM outway OC 920XM by a whole lot.

So to not cause any more arguments: I, ME, PERSONALLY, think that 2820QM is way better choice than 920XM

 

How is it a choice for me? Should I call them back and tell them to give me a laptop that hasn't been announced yet a few months from now? Is that even possible? I'm being dead serious.

 

you realize we talking on GAMING systems? show me a vid that any R3 can play crysis warhead like this:
YouTube - Alienware M17x-R2: Crysis Warhead Gameplay (btw posted by joker)
still think its better, don't you? well guess what...

p.s. and, I mean, why on earth would somebody go against everyone who admits that R3 and R2 are different markets and in core perform differently AND that r2 is a powerhouse? you basically bring up the well-hurt theme of comparison of both systems which, again, is incorrect.

 

That video was actually taken with old drivers + stock 920xm/5870m I believe. I'm pretty sure if I set my 920xm to 90W TDP and load newer 5870M drivers, it'll soundly beat an R3 + 2820/6970M combo. I'll be testing the M17x-R2 vs R3 as soon as my R3 gets here. I'll use stock CPU settings since theoretically the 2630 = 940xm performance. I'll also include kill-a-watt power draw figures although those aren't 100% accurate due to PSU efficiency issues.

 

Say I'm not into modding my system at all beyond adding RAM or a hard drive. The two units still stack up just fine, right? The screen loss is still one that may get me in the end. That screen in the R2 is damn near perfect from what I could see! I also liked the tank-feel of the R2. As long as the R3 doesn't have any physical wear I should be okay.

All that said, perhaps I should angle for some more RAM or a SSD or something. I'm still really happy that I finally got an answer and a re-order has been placed for a machine that is really good. They are also sending me a bluetooth card or something like that for BT so I'm not sure if I'm going to have to install that or not myself.

Still, there's this nagging feeling that I should come out ahead a little bit more for being put out for what will likely be 2 months of not having a working laptop. That and there's the whole price thing. I know that I can't spend last year's money this year but it still bugs me a tad. The only other thing I can think of is to ask for a refurbed R2 with 5870x2. But that seems silly for what they are offering me.

 

i believe your system does have a modded heatsink + some additional cooling to it, correct?

 

It is a bit off putting that they are giving you a single GPU system for a dual GPU one with a superior display and build. Too bad the M18x doesn't exist yet because that would have been your replacement with 6970M in crossfire. See if you can push for a 100% refund and then just hold tight for the M18x. But to answer your question, for people running at stock settings, Sandy Bridge is a no-brainer.

 

Seriously what have you been smoking? First of all you told me the scores from the test i posted was useless because "the gpus are different". Then you show me a video made by some dude and suddenly it is valid? Second of all how the hell should i get a video of someone playing with 2820QM when i don`t know anyone? Third, try ask a reviewer site to do that and they will laugh at you because THAT is truly useless.

And what on earth gave you the permission to say that SB CPU should only be used in gaming? Like there are no other use for it..
Seriously, grow up. I can smell your fanboysim all the way to my house

And to set the record straight: i have NEVER said that 920XM, non SB CPUs or R2 wasn`t a "powerhouse".

 

Im waiting for your side by side review. I wanted to do the same thing, but I just cant keep 2 expensive machines, that's more than $5000 Please upload some photos of them sitting next to each other too

IMO, in terms of hard core gaming and gaming only, 920XM with CF 5870 is still slightly better 2820 + 6970 in performance.
However, there are a lot of factors to consider like what Joker said: heat, power consumption, battery life, etc.. for which 2820 + 6970 is clearly a winner.
If you are not a hard core gamer, definitely go with the R3 and dont regret.

 

I am looking forward to that
May i ask, what frequencies do the 920XM run stable on with 90W?

 

purely stock for stock joker? and in the end, trade offs > any slight % variance.

i'm sure jchrichton will enjoy the newly revised 17" system as a replacement, which will play most games at max (and definitely outperform his old system with now "only" a single gpu) while shedding a few pounds weight and gaining a few hours battery life...

 

About 3 GHz stable on all 4 cores. So you see where I'm going with the TDP argument right? SB is a very nice upgrade to Clarksfield but at the end of the day, it's constrained by it's 45w TDP limitation and TB 2.0 will scale it back to default frequency under heavy load for an extended period. Although in certain media applications (e.g. encoding), SB will still easily win thanks to quick sync.

No doubt, he's getting a nice system in exchange. Yes stock vs stock and then I'll do a OC (GPU) vs OC (GPU) and OC (920x) vs stock 2630qm.

 

I assume this conversation to be closed on my end, its so pity to talk with someone who has lack of intelligence, but still, here are my last answers and I don't care anymore on what you have to say there, since I find what you say is insulting

1) if you had a chance of actually knowing anyone who does deal with technical aspect of PCs, not the "i run a benchmark" people, you would've known that ANY of those tests are made with an assumption forewards: comparison is on basis of "what we have" - you take the system that you have and you compare that system to another system, as i believe 920xm's potential with cf 5870m differs from what it does with a gtx 280m, and yet again, those tests are all artificial, not forgetting that its not m17x r2 & r3 you are using there to test it, bullcrap.
2) this guy is well known around here and has certain reputation, btw, instead of you, comming around here with some pics n telling everyone you're the guy who knows it, need a vid of some1 playing r3 w/ 2820qm + 6970m? youtube it, smartass
easier way would be to watch through m17x forum ,theres a link to it, good luck on this adventure
3) alienware makes GAMING systems that people usually purchase to PLAY the games, not only that of course, but if you want a good processor - there are much cheaper systems for that use (I believe other people don't need to be educated on this)
4) yes, you did not, you just said in your first post
"better gpu
better cpu
worse screen"
of course you didn't...

p.s. I would read something and talk to someone who knows more than I do on topic I am arguing on, instead of blindly going in insulting people, that only gets you some disrespect, GL on future hassles

 

overall i think its a good replacement, but maybe ask for the hdd to be upgraded to ssd to off set the cost of the 920xm. but overall i think you'll be happy with it.

 

It really sucks that this thread turned into a urinary Olympic event. I said it already, but that is a damn nice machine you're getting. HDMI-in, USB 3.0, etc. There aren't many games it won't handle, and it won't be long (hopefully) before you're able to overclock the CPU and GPU to narrow the gap.

 

And I agreed with that point. Ano Alum is much better in build and quality. I said that in my post. R2 is completely different machine then the R3.

That sucks to hear, hopefully they didnt cut extra corners on the R3. I like my M11x R2, the rubber is only on the back of the lid and bottom and not on the palms and I dont expect to see cracking or peeling. However if my brand new machine had its shell already peeling I would be on the phone to Dell.

 

Aw, man ... outta rep for now. Gotta hit many of you tomorrow and possibly the next day.

I think right now I'm going to try a few things:

1.) Try for the full refund. That's the biggest win as the money will go straight to the m18x whenever it arrives. The waiting will suck but it would be worth it in the end. Absolutely for the wireless HD that would likely come with new machines. I do LOTS of TV watching connected to our 50" and that would be a big plus.

2.) If the refund angle doesn't take (and I don't think it will) an upgrade to a 256GB SSD for the other HDD is fair considering the price difference which is really the only thing bugging me right now. Easily more than $1000 difference right now between the two machines and closer to $1500 without looking at my invoice. Now that I think of it, it would be nice to have an upgrade to 16 gigs of RAM just cuz. Again, price diff.

3.) I'm not a hardcore gamer. The heaviest games I play are Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 (tomorrow!). I don't do competitive gaming so I know this machine will rock whatever I want to play on it.

I really hate to pester Dell any further about this now that the R3 is in the hopper but I'll kick myself later if I don't try.