R2: Replace 5870M, or Upgrade to 7970M?

I recently fried my secondary 5870M in my M17x R2 ( See Here) in the process of trying to get it to run cooler ( See Here), which I later found out was a self-induced problem.

When I had Crossfire, I was actually really satisfied with performance: Skyrim ran at an average of 50-60fps on High (1920x1200 Native), and Crysis 2 at near-60fps most of the time with dips to 30fps on Very High (DX9 at 1920x1200). I'm actually really impressed with the performance of a single 5870M as well (Skyrim averages 45fps with the same settings, afraid to see what Crysis would do). Other games, like Deus Ex: Human Revolution (and I'm guessing Portal 2 as well) hit the 60fps cap most of the time with just a single card.

Nevertheless, I still feel like everything would be much smoother with something better than my new single card configuration, so these were the options I had in mind:

• 5850M For ~$150-ish I could replace the card I broke and end up back where I started (which I claim was satisfactory).
• 7970M Unless I'm missing something, it's one of (the?) best mobile offerings at the moment, at ~$500.
• 7970M CF I've got two card slots, so this is a logical progression, right at $1,000.

I had previously thought about selling my laptop and building a gaming desktop (next summer, since I'll need something relatively powerful and portable for a study abroad trip I'm going on in the spring), but I really like the portability of having a laptop (which is funny, considering that I hardly ever move it). I haven't played games as much as I would've liked in the past year (classes and whatnot), but I'm planning on reallocating some of my free time back to it (I don't have an extensive list of titles I'd want to play, but if I did, it'd include Skyrim, GTA IV (and V), and Crysis 2 (and 3)). I skipped over the 69xxM because if I were going to spend enough to buy a set of those, I'd just go for a 7970M instead.

I'm kind of leaning towards the 7970M CF, but is that overkill (compared to a single 7970M)? Would there be a significant FPS difference in most games between one 7970 and two? Is a newer/better mobility card coming out anytime soon? (I thought the 7000M series was relatively recent, but I haven't kept up with it.) Is it likely that the next major iteration of Radeon Mobilities will be compatible with the R2? Are there any anecdotes/thoughts/facts on 7970(s) in an R2 that you guys have experienced/witnessed? (I've read about needing a different size bracket for the heatsink and modifying the Crossfire cable, but I'm not completely sure I understand what they meant - is it the same heatsink with a different bracket?) I realize that any answers to some of my questions would just be speculation (like if the next series would be compatible), but I feel mildly clueless, so it couldn't hurt!

I'm also thinking about swapping out my 720QM for a 920XM. Would that be advisable, or am I just subconsciously desperate to spend money on upgrades?

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

dual 5870m is enough for maxing out nearly every game out there at above 30fps. so why pay extra???
2 5870m cards in crossfire, is a very sweet setup.

 

5870M CF are showing their age, newest FPS's need to have quality turned down or resolution cut back.

 

And a single 7970M decimates a dual 5870M setup while drawing less power.

The single 7970M is the best option here. Two might give you issues with power consumption. o_o Using two 6970Ms gave me problems and the 7970M uses the same amount of power.

 

You have to factor in the cost of the 330w M18x PSU if you're going crossfire with the 7970m. imsolidstate from Tech|Inferno swapped the ID chips and managed to get it working so power isn't an issue anymore.

Also consider the 680m as there are no issues with the HDMI port, but apparently if you have an XM cpu the fan has to be controlled by HWinfo. However, it is much more expensive than a 7970m.

edit: The best way forward I think would to get a single 7970m, that way you have to option to crossfire if you feel you need more power, if you feel its enough performance wise you can keep it as is. At the moment with the 680m there is no solution for SLi.

 

Not to mention that crossfire does not work 100% of the time. Sometimes you would even get performance downscale with a crossfire setup. I have personally used the 5870m crossfired, 6990m Single and now 680m single. So far the 5870m crossfired is the most troublesome ones among my cards. If you are willing to, it is highly recommended to get the 7970m.

 

7970M MXM is also significantly more money and he would just need 1 x 5870M. Also it would depend on the games he plays. All the games I play now (Dota 2, Team Fortress 2, Sleeping Dogs), 5870M CF is more than enough horsepower to play and is far cheaper for performance than a 7970M.

I've never had an issue with my 5870M CF besides the old problem with ATI's CCC not liking Dell's vBios, but that issue has been fixed months ago.

 

If I weren't down a card, I probably wouldn't even consider upgrading now, but I'd rather spend $500 on something great than $200 on what I had before.

I actually like NVIDIA better than ATI/AMD (I've never had any driver issues with them, their configuration tools seem more organized and intuitive, and their numbering schemes make more sense to me). Being a poor college student, though, I don't like them $350 more for the same performance! I have experienced negative scaling before (when Skyrim first came out, the 9800GT (40fps) in my desktop flew past my 5870Ms (15fps) while I waited a month for AMD to fix the drivers/CAP), but I feel like in some scenarios (e.g. Crysis 2/3 in 1200p with DX11) it would make a higher detail level possible. I did read previously about some issues with CF not working at all for the 7970Ms for people with newer the newer M18x; does anyone know if that would apply and/or if it's been fixed?

I'm glad you guys mentioned power consumption, because I'd seen it brought up in another thread, but hadn't seen any definitive conclusions. Can I stay with my 240W one if I go with the 920XM and just one 7970M? What about with the 920XM and CF 7970Ms (without overclocking anything, or undervolting something)? I'm not sure what the 330W mod entails, but I have a feeling it'd be above and beyond anything I should be attempting without some really specific instructions!

 

I agree on the driver issues with AMD. They always seem to fix something's and break others. 7970m in crossfire is working mostly well according to the guy's over at Tech|Inferno but there are still driver issues with some games.

With just one card the 240w is more than sufficient. We can even oc to our hearts content Its more or less the same with the R3 and R4's. They are running 240w's with their single cards.

I asked StamatisX (He wrote the article on the dual PSU mod while running the 7970m crossfire) on T|I the same thing about the 240w and undervolting and this is what he said,

"yes you can run 7970s without dual PSU and without overclock, though there were games that even with undervolting i.e Metro 2033 kept crashing the PSU (killawatt displayed 260W+). More undervolting resulted in throttling and FPS drop."

imsolidstate's PSU mod guide is linked here. Its not very detailed though but it doesn't have to be, its just ID chip swap with minimal mods. Basically it involves soldering and scratching a trace out on the PSU board. Cracking open the PSU cases I think would be the hardest bit.

Check the thread out though, I asked if I could mod the chip directly into the M17x chassis so we could use any PSU and he said its possible

 

Yes but with the added cost, he'd get almost twice the performance of his 5870Ms in crossfire. one 7970M is around 3x as powerful as a single 5870M. Comparing Vantage scores directly, that's what I've seen. Not to mention that DX11 performance will increase well beyond that due to the tessellation optimizations that the 7000 series GPUs received since the 5000 series.

 

Right...but OP needs to decide if he needs or wants that extra horsepower. Yes on paper, the 7970M "destroys" 5870M CF, but for casual gamers, a 5870M setup will be just fine too without spending ungodly amounts of money to get the same frames, cause trust me over 60 fps the human eye doesn't notice a difference.

 

Arguably I don't need more than one 5870M, because Skyrim and most of the other games I've got are still playable. I would like to improve it a bit more though, because some games will certainly be less than playable at my desired settings (I hate playing at non-native resolutions, and even with CF 5870s at low detail, it struggled with Crysis 2). I don't consider $300 to be an insignificant amount of money, but I feel like the 7970M would make such a difference that it would justify the cost difference.

So, excluding the 5870Ms and 6xxxMs completely, it's down to the 7970M, either single or in CF. I'm having a really hard time with this decision: One would be exceedingly sufficient for almost everything I want it for; I'm not sure having two would make a noticeable difference in anything except Crysis 2 (of the games I currently have). Doing CF would increase the price by 100% and performance by, maybe 20%? (Or 0% on games that can run at 60fps with just one.)

I feel like I'm trying to rationalize buying two when I know that one is sufficient and more logical. It's probably something to do with the fact that I've had this laptop for two years and I feel like it's creeping into being outdated, and I'm trying to compensate by future-proofing it and not giving up my RGB-LED screen.

I think thoughts on these questions might help me decide: Would running in CF lower the temps on each card, even if it wasn't really helping performance significantly? Are there any games / situations where I'd realistically use >2GB of VRAM? How likely is it that the 8xxxM cards will be compatible with the R2?

 

These are your choices: 1 7970 with an extreme 920 CPU, or the CPU you have now with 2 7970s. Anything more is too much power without mods.

You also need to buy the card from a reseller (Eurocom) that have tested the card in the R2 with the correct bios. They also need to provide the right screws and bracket, as the stuff from the 5870 don't fit.

Finally, be prepare to have complications. Some people don't have HDMI. I do have HDMI, but the settings are mixed up (it thinks my laptop is the HDMI, and the HDMI is the laptop.) you need the right thermal pads too (1mm thick).

So rethink what you really want; all graphics or some CPU pow as well. Find the thread that described everything I reviewed above. I will link or bump it when I find it.

I don't regret buying it. It is powerful and fun! Just know that you are entering mod territory. It takes research and a little guts.

Final warning for you. The cards idle very cool (35 degrees). And they can ramp up in heat too (70 degrees plus). Learn about HWInfo, and how it controls fans so you can better control fan speeds to keep it quiet during web and cool ( but loud) during games.

 

Yeah...I really want the 920XM, and I feel like 7970s in CF would be overkill for the majority of games I'd be playing with it. Having to buy a 330W adapter and mod it wouldn't make it any cheaper/easier either. I could also throw in a 920XM, 16GB RAM, and 256GB SSD and spend the same amount of money!

I read about the HDMI/fan problems, but I already use HWiNFO, and I could pretty easily work around not having HDMI/DP. Is there any significant difference between ordering from Eurocom vs MXM-Upgrade?

 

Personally, I'm also planning to do the exact same thing. I too think that the 7970M CrossFireX is overkill for my current needs so I'm also down the path of putting together a 920XM, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD and lastly a 7970M to complete things for my current need.

 

I don't think there is a difference between the two suppliers, from what I have heard. You have to try and contact both to see what they say. As a side note more people on this forum seem to buy from Eurocom.

 

Cameron, I'm in the same boat as you. I have only a single 5870m in my R2, but it freezes the system when it gets stressed. So I know the card is going bad. So in looking at cards compatible with our R2s, the 680m and 7970m became my two finalists. Both cards have issues with automatic fan control, so get used to that limitation.

The 7970m is praised and condemned for all sorts of reasons. AMD has made a marvelous GPU, but their driver support still sucks. Plus, there are some issues with the 7970m and HDMI/DP functionality on our R2s, specifically lack of audio over those protocols. That was the deal breaker for me since I watch movies via HDMI and absolutely need my HDMI audio to work without incident.

The 680m is described to be not nearly as dominant as the 7970m as far as general purpose GPU power is concerned. But it is touted as being absolutely stable. Combined that with Nvidia's great driver support and you've got yourself a good card. Plus, everything works (minus fan control) so all's you have to do is plug and play. IMHO, the 680m is so much more than the 7970m because it has 4GB VRAM whereas the 7970m only carries 2GB.

You go with whichever card your gut tells you will work better. I will have to wait for awhile longer before I get my new GPU (unforeseen circumstances). But here are two things to remember. 1, if you go with the 7970m, it will need to be Eurocom since the Dell and Clevo versions' VBIOSes are incompatible with our R2s. The downside of the Eurocom version is you can only use the modded driver files from Eurocomm, no stock or updated AMD drivers AFAIK. 2, if you go with the 680m, you can get any of the three out there (Dell, Clevo, Eurocom). The Dell card will only have 2GB of VRAM, and will be majorly expensive, but the automatic fan controls are supposed to work. The Eurocom card will be about $850-$900, there will be no auto-fan control, and you need to use the modded Eurocom drivers, so no super good Nvidia drivers. I will be going with the Clevo card since I was quote $780. The clevo card can also be OC'd or OV'd much better than the other two, and you can use the Nvidia's stellar drivers on it. But, alas, no auto fan control. So, the choice is your.

IMHO, I would recommend against going Crossfire with two 7970ms. Not only do you have to have surgical soldering skills to modify an m18x's 330w power supply, I have serious reservations about our m17x's using more than 240w of juice for extended periods of time without something burning out or catching fire. I'm not saying that WILL happen, but in my experience, if you have a machine that's designed for a certain amount of power, and then you give it 37% more power, you don't know if the internal components will be able to handle that much more power since they were only designed and tested for 240w. But that's just my two cents.

 

I agree with what the folks above have said. I think a single 7970 will be the best option. With the choice to add another card down the road once all the tests with the modded psu and kinks get worked out. For me my dual 6970s have been rock solid and a huge improvement over my dual 4870s. So I suspect you'll see a big advantage going to a 7970. Any new games coming out will suffer with 5870s or less especially games such as crysis 3. So unless you plan to retire this as your main gaming system. I say spend the extra money and buy a 7970.

 

I'm not sure I'm allowed to link this so I apologize in advance. i just purchased a 7970m for my m15x from Table21
http://forum.notebookreview.com/computer-components/689219-fs-mxm-video-cards-cpus-other-laptop-parts.html
and it was plug and play as it gets. Fan control and everything worked perfectly and i needed no special drivers or anything. just had to modify my heatsink. His 6990 prices are good too if you can grab the last one!
If this all works out for you let me know when you sell your 5870 and give me a screaming deal for helping!