Situation with 330W PSUs

I've been trying to investigate options for better power supplies for my R2, but I've run across a few questions.

At this point, I'd rather go with a modified 330W PSU from an M18x and avoid daisychaining two 240W ones; that just looks like a trainwreck waiting to happen to me.

I've run across imsolidstate's Guide a few times, and while it looks doable (with the help of one of my computer/electrical engineering friends), the guide is for the PSU from an R1, and I can't seem to find any definitive indication as to whether the procedure would be the same for the R2's PSU. Also, does this route cause the brightness/charging issues like the other? I hadn't seen it mentioned but wasn't sure.

I also read something about modifying part of the motherboard instead of the PSU; could someone explain this?

Has anyone done this or something similar with an R2 that could point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

 

Why would you need a larger PSU?

The 330W PSU is meant to support the top configuration for the M18x R2 without having to do any modifications.

 

maybe to supply 6990/7970CF or 680m sli with the RGB LED screen

 

You can configure a M18x R2 with 3940XM and 680m Sli and you would still have no trouble at all running it with the 330W.

 

That's true. But still there are folks doing upgrades to m17xR2s. And there are no m18x with RGB, yet

 

My M17x is more than enough to carry as it is now, and I can't upgrade to a newer one without sacrificing CrossFire and nicer finishes (anonized aluminum).

I was planning on upgrading to a 7970M, but then decided to go all-in with CrossFire (if I can supply ample power). I'm under the impression that a 940XM and two 7970Ms can't all run at stock clocks on 240W.

tl;dr: What Doctor Magneto said.

 

OOohhh my bad, I was thinking about the M18x R2 haha.. I'm sorry I completely forgot I was on M17x forums this week :S

I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to PSU mods as I've never worked with those before, but any help I can provide let me know and I'll do

 

There are two models of the 240W PSU for both the M17x and the M17x R2, from Delta and Flextronix. They also work with the M17x R3/R3, lower configs of M18x and other Dell laptops.
So the procedure should be similar.

I raised it up once but it involves a lot more work and risk, so modifying the PSU is the best way to go.

 

You could suggest RGB-LED and anonized aluminum as choices on the M17x again.

Thanks! Mine is a Flextronix; would the chip that needs to be removed have the same label?

Also, could you let me know in non-technical terms what the following means: "Cut the ID signal trace after it connects to the series current limiting resistor R141" and "Add a jumper wire to the third terminal"?

 

Thanks Luis,

i throw it there since christmas is coming...

The real big (read huge) help you can give us is to talk to some dell/AW bios programmer in order to have a Bios update for M17xR2 that will recognize the ID from a 330W PSU.

Can you try?

 

I haven't been asked to take one apart...yet...so all my answers are complete speculation. BUT...according to dell's website and all the other parts websites I've visited, the m18x R1 and R2 use the same 330W PSU. I would imagine the Delta and Flextronics to use the same specs for each of their PSUs so the ID chips should be the same size/shape in either 240W R2 PSU.

As for your technical questions: when imsolidstate says to cut the ID trace, he means to break the copper connection on the m18x PSU's circuit board at a certain point. I marked that point in the photo with a yellow circle. If you zoom in you will see where he broke the copper pathway to make the circuit work. As for the adding the jumper wire, he means adding the blue wire in the photo from the bottom right post on the ID chip to the top post in the ID chip (you can use whatever color wire you want).

 

So the "only" thing making it not possible to use the 330 is the BIOS recognition? I can see that the voltages are the same, but will there not be issues on internal switch mode PSU's in the R2?
Guess it will not use the 19.5 volts directely internally. If someone has used double 240's to get enough power I guess we are good.

Is there a chance a BIOS upgrade can be made to be able to use it directely, or will it just be wishfull thinking?

I need to buy a new PSU now and might be very interested in a 330W since that can make me able to crossfire my 7970.

 

It's probably not gonna be done by the engineers. Even though it is not recognized as a 330W one, does it work? I mean... does the PC get enough power?

 

BIOS and hardware recognition. The m17x PSUs use a different ID chip and different circuitry methods than the m18x to validate the power adapter. But since the PSUs for both notebook lines are made by the same manufacturers, imsolidstate was able to adapt the ID chip from the m17x PSU into an m18x 330W PSU, it just took a great deal of reverse engineering. But since there is a hardware difference in the way the two notebook lines read the PSU ID chip, no BIOS mod will ever be able to work around this.

 

Thanks, it's so much more clear now!

What's the best way of getting inside? The guide says a T10 bit is required, but not specifically how to open it (e.g. hidden screws under the padded feet, or just prying along the edge?).

Is there a preferred technique for getting the chip off of the 240W board without damaging it? Should a soldering iron be used to liquefy the metal holding it down, should it just pop off, etc...?

Also, how should I break the copper pathway? Just scrape it from the top with something like a screwdriver edge?

I don't really have experience tinkering with electronics on a hardware level, so any pointers would be much appreciated!

 

Yeah, I believe the two halves of the brick are plastic welded together at some points, so you will need a chisel to pry the molded joints apart (as well as the torx screws). Getting the chip off the board is best achieved using a soldering gun with a fine point tip. You need to make sure those three holes aren't joined by solder after removing the chip. Copper pathway is easily broken with a slotted screwdriver. Just be careful about the amount of pressure you use. You don't want to break the whole board and you don't want to damage any other pathways.

 

Thanks! I've received the 330W adapter and gotten to the point shown in the image below. The metal bit seems to be soldered onto the inner PCB, and not wanting to damage anything, I'm not sure how to proceed. Recommendations?

 

Not sure. I've PM'd imsolidstate and asked him. He should have that answer. Maybe some other user(s) whom have modded the 330W PSU can chime in?

 

Per imsolidstate: Just cut the tape and then desolder the tabs. The outer metal shielding / heatsink is soldered with four tabs per side if I remember right. Then just peel the sections apart, they are taped together. Pay attention to how you take it apart as the sections only go back on way.

 

Thanks to you both! I got a 330W PSU in the mail and modified it with one of my friends; we got it working, but when we put it back together, we forgot the plastic bit that covers the bottom portion of the PCB, and it fried a capacitor thing with a lead sticking out of the goop. I ordered a second and we modded it (ensuring that the plastic piece was securely attached) and got it reassembled in working condition.

The 330W PSU registers as 240W in the BIOS, but some games (specifically more graphically detailed, like Crysis 2) cause the laptop to shut down unexpectedly when running with Crossfire enabled with Turbo enabled on my 940XM. Is there something I've done incorrectly, or something else I need to do?

 

It will be a power limit coded into the board rather than the PSU, it would need some modding to the EC firmware to get round that but I am not sure if it has been achieved (or can be).

 

Maybe not. Even though the BIOS sees it as a 240W PSU, this is only for recognition purposes. If the system needs over 240W of power, it will take it from the 330W PSU without any special BIOS mod. If it's still shutting down, that could either be temp related, or you could be tasking your system to use more than 330W of power (highly unlikely).

 

It shouldn't be temps - at high loads when it stays running, both cards stay <75°C (and with my 5870Ms, it never cut power even when one went up to 110°C).

Is the firmware you're referring to related to the BIOS? I'm using the A10 version modded to enable overclocking.

Otherwise, is there anything else I could be looking into?

 

I was under the impression once the R2 recognizes the 330W PSU as an "official adapter", the system will draw up to the 330W power limit without any software based modifications. But, I may be wrong so I asked the boys at techinferno to confirm this.

 

Thanks! I had been under the exact same impression from reading a thread on their site previously, so hopefully there's a solution!

 

Unfortunately the 920XM bottlenecks two 7970Ms pretty heavily. Normally they'd get around 33k in Vantage but with the 920XM they only manage around 25k. :S You're at the limits of what the R2 is capable of with that kind of upgrade.

 

Pretty much not worth the upgrade then since i allready get 22 K on the GPU when alone.

Had other power problems on my alien, was sure my PSU was damaged and eventually bought another one.
When this failed too i pulled the computer apart and found the + pins from the power socket onto the mainboard had loosened and had bad/no connection. Resoldered it on saturday and now it works great.

 

How sure are you about the above?
With my single HD 7970m, I experienced Thermal shutdowns when the card got around or over 80 degrees. With my 4870 XF's I was able to go way beyond those temperatues and never had any problems.
So i'd not rule out temperature issues and thermal shutdowns, personally. Maybe something makes the 7970m different from earlier AMD cards, which means the thermal limit is lower or something??

 

There is a known issue with the 7970m triggering a thermal shutdown via the BIOS when it temp hits somewhere in the 80's C.

 

I used HWiNFO64 to log temperatures in the background every two seconds while the benchmark was running. The cards were running at 60°C and 64°C (also maximums for the set) when the laptop shut down. At the same time, the CPU was only drawing 28W, VDDCs (something about electricity used, right?) were 0.825 and 0.9, and utilizations were 72.3% and 72.1%, respectively.

I don't quite understand why it would have shut off them, assuming power is the issue. About 30 seconds earlier, both cards were at 99.7%+ utilization, and the CPU was drawing 33W; surely that'd be more power in aggregate than what was being used when it shut off?

I tried Crysis 2 as well - it ran fine at around 60 FPS with everything on Ultra for about two or three minutes, with the cards maxing out at around 62°C, before shutting off.

Between the relatively low temperatures and the fact that the LED on the power brick goes off every time the laptop, would it be safe to assume that power is issue at this point?

 

It might still be a power issue, where there isn't enough power for everything to run at full speed and overclocked. Just a hunch though.

 

.Cameron.
I too do 330w psu mod, but I have a problem.
Prompt where in 240w psu is the ID chip how it is called? I have Delta 240W PSU.
Simply I sorted both psu and got stuck in this point, I looked at imsolidstate pictures, and there everything is clear.
But on my 240 psu all on another, other markings!

 

I think mine might've been Flextronics, but I was under the impression that they should effectively be the same thing.

If I remember correctly, on the 240W, the chip that you desolder is on the bottom of the PCB (there's a piece of white plastic, with yellow tape, covering it when you take it out of the casing). You'll find it labeled U208. The spot you solder it onto on the 330W is in the same area (bottom of the PCB, under the plastic). The TO-92 that you remove from IC134 is actually on the other (top) side; we had to pry away one of the side metal bars and cut away some of the white goop to find it.

My only caution would be that it might not work with the R2. I'm assuming that I did the mod successfully since my 330W adapter identifies at 240W, and is fully functional, but still seemingly can't draw any more power than it could with the stock 240W.

I just flashed a vBIOS on both cards to run undervolted, and it still experiences unexpected shutdowns, draining the power brick.

 

Have you tried if you have these shutdowns if you remove the 2nd card?
If not, then there's no doubt in my mind it's a thermal issue (which it's not, as you checked the temps), or a power issue (aka the 330w doesn't deliver the needed power and might just act as a 240W).

 

note a place please on a photo where there is a chip!
I can't find and all!

 

It doesn't ever shut down unexpectedly with CrossFire disabled, but framerates drop to about 42 FPS where they were 60 FPS with CrossFire. I was somewhat convinced from the beginning that it was a power issue (since all of the power in the brick is drained when it shuts off, which wouldn't be happening if the laptop were shutting itself off), so the 330W adapter mod either doesn't work with the R2, or I've done something incorrectly.

Is that your 330W? I don't have either of the adapters opened in front of me, but that looks a lot like the 330W one (open IC133 next to R141, which is where we worked at on my 330W). Of course, neither of mine had black PCB.

 

These are my 240 watt psu and I can't find here the ID U208 chip.

 

Have you had a look on the other side of the PCB?

 

It here?

 

Please, guys, prompt somebody to me!
Where there is in 240 psu for R2 an U208 chip?
My power units lie the sorted!

 

It should be on the bottom part of the PCB, somewhere in the first picture you posted. I looked but wasn't able to find it in your photo.

Are you using a non-US version of the adapter? Since your PCB is black instead of green, and U208 isn't visible, it's possible that your PSU has a different design than the one used to write the guide.

 

Yes my power unit not the American sample, I bought it in Ukraine.
How to me to find U208?

 

So I installed the ID chip from 240 psu in 330 psu.
All the same I found it and at me it turned out to make it!)))

Now 330 psu recognize the laptop as 240psu, the battery is charged, brightness is regulated.
But there was a problem as at.Cameron. - as soon as I start the game clocks go down from 3d in 2d and the power unit is disconnected!

Cameron. you could solve this problem?

 

Im quite sure there would be switch modes on the mainboard for the different voltages needed to run all systems (external and internal boards). Could it be where the limitations are?
They will have output power/current limits at some point but could be way above needed current.

Have anyone made this 330W mod work for R-2 with full xfire load (7970m) and extreme CPU (920/940)?

 

I personally have not been able to find a single person yet, who can 'really' confirm that the 330watt psu mod works.

I mean, REALLY work
Of course it works as a PSU, as a lot of people have been reporting to get the PSU to work and use the system with
But I haven't been able to track down a single person who was able to say it also is able to deliver the 330watts to the R2, with benchmark proof of 2 x hd7970m with some OC and an extreme processor also with some OC.
I'd love to see this (though I am not alknowing, and might have missed this), as the 330 watt PSU mod is the only one that I would be interested in, cba in the hastle with the 2 x 240 watt PSU's and how it looks on my desk .

The only confirmation of that kind have been done with the other mod, using 2 x 240 watt PSU, which is confirmed and proven to 'REALLY' work.

 

Mmmmm if 2 *240 really works then the question about limitations in internal power jumps out the window.

 

Who started the original thread/concept? is it Imsolidstate?
Why not ask him/her to benchmark it and post pics?

From what i understood of the forums on TechInferno the 330W mod works like it would be expected>?

Perhaps ask Stamatisx or Svl7 to confirm?

 

I have. I will PM him again and specifically ask if there are any known issues with the power limits of the 330W mod (i.e. a watchdog circuit that prevents the system from drawing over 240W or something).

Just heard back from imsolidstate. Here's what he's found:

 

See...

That's pretty much the issue at the moment (at least for me).
You get the 330w PSU to work, that much is clear already
But really' work is currently very unclear, there is no one who can confirm, for instance with a benchmark, that the modded 330w when used on an R1 or R2 can deliver the power needed for a 7970m Crossfire or 680m SLI setup (obviously the adapter can deliver 330w, but does it really deliver this on an R1 or R2).

 

So this particular mod is rendered uselles until someone figures out the part to adjust ob the motherboard.

Taking everything in account.... The R2 has just reached it's functional limit.
Forgot an OC'ed xm cpu with High end CF/SLI.
Stock clocks is the limit .

Hmmm..the M18x R2 is getting more attractive..