advice needed and quickly please!

Hiya all

im looking to place an order tomorrow for a m17x with c/f 5870.....

after reading some threads on here, im concerened a bit about drivers ans suchlike - something about dell not using or allowing ati drivers so the cards can perform to their optimum - also something about bios updates etc.

Not being a pc pro, im looking for some simple advice....

Are these cards good to go? - i mean is it something that can be rectified by updates etc? - if so , do these updates come automatically cos im worried that ive gotta do lots of bios/driver stuf myself and not being a tech head, worries me - im not that competant!

I was looking at this config as i was told its the best gpu config available atm (bar gtx 480 which seems unlikely in sli upon refresh)

So, what would you guys recommend i do?

Am i worrying too much about nothing......

 

personally i would go with the 4870s, and spend the extra 100 or so on a warranty upgrade or get a blue ray drive. it doesn't seem worth the hassle. chances are dell wont fix the vbios, and you will be stuck using dell drivers forever on it and if they stop supporting the cards, then you are SOL while with the 4870s you loose about 8-10% in performance, but you gain the flexibility & you can always upgrade if they fix the issue or release something better in a few minutes. =)

CLIFF NOTES: get 4870s

 

Or even better, just wait until E3 to see what's coming and make a decision then. I agree with Clever to a point though, if Dell doesn't fix that vbios issue then those cards are just neutered and not worth the purchase in my eyes.

 

Appreciate what you say about warranty or blu ray....its already got a blu ray though!...my plan was to extend the warranty closer to the expiry of the 12mth standard which would enable me to get better/higher spec now at time of purchase. (more money for hardware)

With the 4870's i not only lose performance (fps) and DX11 - surely the way to go is with the 5870's whereby i lose a few fps but isnt it better to have dx11 cards and the possibility of a vbios/driver fix - i mean if it doesnt happen, i know im stuck with it but i would imagine more and more DX11 stuff coming out over the next 1yr/2yrs.


Regarding E3, if i order now, its gonna take a few weeks to build and then i have 7 days to return , so im assuming by then....(around 21st june earliest).....E3 will have been and gone so i will know if i can get better?

What is E3 anyhow

 

Ive just got of the phone with AW/Dell about my proposed order with the c/f 5870. I raised the subject of the drivers / performance with him.

I told him of the info ive read here about people not being able to update the gpu drivers to that of ATI.
He told me that the m17x being shipped in the UK comes factory pre-installed with ATI drivers - (so in my mind, this would appear to have been sorted?)

So, assuming that Dell are now shipping with ATI drivers instead of their own, the c/f pairing should perform as expected - unless im missing something?

How do you tell which drivers are installed....basically, if i order with c/f, i will want to check that i have ATI drivers and not Dell ones.
Anyone tell me how to check and what i should be looking for?

 

Its Dell drivers ATI drivers don't properly work with these cards. Sales reps will tell you anything to get a sale.

 

now im confused! - i thought it was the dell srivers causing problems and people not being able to use ati drivers or update to ati drivers?

 

Yes, that's exactly it... ATI drivers don't work, the only drivers they can install are Dell.

 

Ok! now im getting it! - right so, if thats the case, is this likely to be something fixable by dell via vBIOS update?

 

There are two things that you should consider:

1. E3 is around the corner and though no one expects anything major on the M17X, there could be some sweet small upgrades such as USB 3.0

2. As noted and benched by Joker the 5870 crossfire offer about 8 to 10% increase in performance over the 4870 but also offer about 20% more FPS on minimum FPS... This is very important and worth the extra money for a first time buyer but not worth the upgrade if someone owns the 4870XF.

Hope this helps...

 

It should be but the question is will they fix this or not?

 

Ok, so 8-10% better than 4870's - is that what was expected with the new 5870's?.....was this expected to be much more?

As a first time AW buyer, its imperative that i get this right ..... my current laptop is nothing to write home about (very basic run of the mill) - like i said before, ive saved for this for a while til the c/f 5870's have hit but after reading several threads, they seem to be a big let down.
This is apparently due to some bios/driver issues - question being is are these likely to be rectifiable by Dell via updates? (id hate to be stuck with something sub standard after paying well over £2000)

I, personally, dont mind buying now and waiting a while for a fix to be released but not being a computer whizz kid, im a bit in the dark here.....

If i hold off oredring now, chances are i will lose the deal i have in place (worth about £350 off via dell rep) so, although E3 is soon, chances are whatever is announced, they wont be available for a while??? - (i have no idea how long it takes for new stuff announced to roll out to production - if its several months, i cant wait that long for something like a usb update)

Basically, would i be making a HUGE error by ordering now with the c/f 5870's???

 

I honestly think you are over thinking this purchase. The 5870 are the way to go right now. Eventually a driver will make them better though the question remains by how much.

Anyhow the minimum FPS increase in games is quite good compared to the 4870 therefore I would go 5870 all the way right now.

 

Thanks and yeah i probably am over thinking things....not being a computer ace, after reading some stuff made me think Whhhoooooaaaaa.....am i buying a load of trouble!!!

I know in my heart that the 5870's are the way to go (and i probably will go with them as the 4870's arent dx11......if i dont buy now, my other options are c/f 4870 or single 5870.....the price is negligable...thats why i thought go for the 5870's now.

As previously stated, i havent really gamed before so im imaging the performance as they stand right now will be amazing and can only get better with an update......

 

Yep, you will be able to play any games out there with most settings at high to very high and resolution 1900x1200.

 

thats fine by me.....i was hoping to play in native 1920x1200 at high settings....im probably more of a qualtiy over fps guy but knowing i can play at that level and it only getting better with a future driver update means alot and i would say that it makes me feel more comfortable about buying.

Im not the kinda guy who wants to max things out and overclock.....just not that interested in it! (at the moment anyway!)

 

i would agree that the min fps increase is worth the small price of the upgrade over the 4870s IF you dont care about the flexibility. i doubt dx11 plays a large roll in major games for a while, but re-thinking my original comment if i was purchasing a brand new machine from dell, i would go with the 5870s or wait till after E3 to see whats up.

Fwiw i play all my games at max res and ive never had an issue with performance, and i have a relatively weak cpu even if you go with the 720qm & the 4870s the thing will be a beast.

 

my spec will be 720qm / 4gb ram c/f 5870 / blu ray combo / 1tb raid 0 stripe / bluetooth / lan 6300 / uxga 1920x1200 rgbled....oh and win 7 home premium

 

i would advise against raid 0, if one drive dies you loose it all. i would get a ssd if your concerned about speed, and a platter drive for storage its much safer, and faster.

 

platter drive? - is that a desktop external?.........as far as ssd goes, its outta my range atm (too expensive in the uk)....i dont plan on huge storage anyhow but will backup files to disc.........

 

SSD is a must on a gaming machine. I would get a small SSD like a 64gb if you can't afford anything extravagant.

This is amazing: OCZ Vertex 2 50gb

You install Win and your games on this and major apps and use a 500gb HD on the second bay for storage.

 

One step at a time gents please!!!:laugh:

Afterall, im changing from a laptop with a celeron here......its kind of like asking a 10yr old to write a 10000 word essay on shakespeare atm but i will get used to it and im sure i will start gaming once "the beast" arrives...

Point taken about the ssd, where exactly do these fit if i have two hdd already?

(i know im dumb but bear with me lol)

I thought hard drive speed had nothing to do with gaming apart from how fast the game loads?

 

Stevie I was at work and wrote a longer response, so I will have to be more concise. I was a nub stick too at one point (still am by most people's standards here on this site). However I can change ram, do fresh installs, change drivers, et al. Changing drivers WILL need to be learned.

MOST IMPORTANTLY though is you need to know this...and it has NOT been talked about:

I have an M15X with an 8800MGTX (a pretty good card) that I received March 2008. That is ancient by laptop standards. I got the very first batch of a cutting edge card and it could NOT come close to maxing crisis (DX10 game). A year prior, I had a Dell XPS lappy with a 7900 MGTX that was cutting edge. The 8800MGTX was 2X fast as my XPS lappy. Fortunately for gamers, the "Graphics cards wars" have slowed to a halt; part poor economy and Nvidia struggles and part Console game boom. A LOT of developers are cross-designing games to run primarily on the consoles and the PC is getting the "port."

While this has been great for gamers for the past few years while the consoles have been out; it also means that in only a few years, the 5870 is going to be EXTINCT when the new consoles hit the market. The reason is that the GPU in those things are so micro, that they easily start working their ways to the PC side (actually PC will have a GPU more powerful than the consoles, but the GPU will be about as big as the console itself)

If you are still following me (and I realize I made this longer than I wanted) is that DX11 will NOT be utilized by your 5870's in most DX11 games. Just ask owners of the past 8700GT's when those were realized as a "dx 10 card" right before the 8800s. Just because a card has the technical capabilities; doesn't mean it can crank the game. The very early games are hardly using dx11 because consoles dont use it....the games that DO use dx11 can hardly be max'ed now...so dont expect driver updates to allow it to happen. Updates to drivers just allow optimization of current games for the most part. So you may get better FPS from what you have already played; or are still playing.

The reason I typed all this is because I feel like you are getting a very nice computer with the following objectives: Not having to manually update it (display drivers) and believing those updates "future proof" the system..which is impossible.

Most people on this forum get a computer and get the next best thing within a few years in order to keep with the Jones...so to speak. My dinner is ready. Peace. (didnt proof it)

 

well you would replace one of the ill advise raid drives with a Solid state drive. you can only have 2 installed in the computer. personally i think raid is a horrible idea. as far as the speed i think it does affect the load times, but it also has a much lower failure rate. you don't have to buy it from dell either, you can buy one aftermarket for about half the price, and install it yourself and save a little money on the Dell build.1tb is a ridiculous amount of space IMO, and the computer will run cooler & more efficient with a ssd over raid.

 

That's with Dell Drivers and we already know how poor they are. Dell has already confirmed it is ATI's problem not there's and they are getting it fixed ASAP, The throttling is being investigated.

 

@ Dave - i am aware that you cant future proof things indefinetly and its obvios that sooner or later its gonna be outdated by new tech, wether it be in the format of pc hardware of console hardware. What im trying to do is just to get the best hardware available now regarding gpu's - the difference between 5870 and 4870 (lesser) is only about £100 so im quite happy in spending the extra on that basis - yes, games may not take advantage of it for some time but its still the way to go for me (99% sure anyway!)

 

I may well look in to an after-build ssd later on....at this point, the main reason for going for the raid drives is that they are a "free" upgrade from a meagre single 160gb sata 5400.....makes financial sense atm not to turn them down as according to the build screens, it saves me £230...

To config atm with a ssd is wayyyyyy over my budget....i think from recall that even a single 256gb ssd was gonna cost an additional £500 (hence sticking to the 1tb raid config!

 

Thats good to know - if the problem is in hand and is being dealt with, makes me more comfortable with ordering - and, if those figures are at stock with dell drivers, then when it does goet sorted, i would expect a significant improvement in performance eh?