m17x r3 with the i7 2820QM really better alot then the 940xm?

hey guys, im deciding which laptop to get, i have the m17x r1 right now and im upgrading to either the r2 or the r3. i was going to upgrade to the R2 because from what i read that is the performance laptop and the new r3 is really for power saving ect..

BUT from what i read the i7 2820QM in the new m17x r3 is really alot better then the 920xm and 940xm that the r2 have, i looked at one test they did and it was double the speed. so the i7 2820QM is really good. also the new r3 and hold 32gb of ram whereas the r2 can only hold 8gb.

i dont understand why the r3 gives less performance?? is it the video card? because on dell site the best video card i can get for the machine is a
1.5GB GDDR5 Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M

im sure the Crossfire Dual 1GB ATI Radeon Mobility HD 5870
in the m17x r2 are alot better, correct?

but cant i just install a better video card myself? whats the best video card i can put in one of these r3's? if i put a better video card in wouldnt it out perform the r2 in every espect? could a crossfire 5870 fit in a r3? because that would be awesome


also i can get the new m17x r3 with the 2820QM, 8 gb of ram (with 4 dimms) and the 1.5GB GDDR5 Nvidia GeForce GTX 460M
and it only costs $2,174 with free shipping!! thats a great deal!? right?

here look at this image, its double the speed of the 920xm in the clevo laptop

 

With Thottlestop, you could beat that score with a 920/940XM. You can't overclock the 2820QM, that's where it's better. That being said, I would choose the newer tech.

 

just an FYI, the r3 doesn't have support for multiple GPUs. This means that until they release a single GPU that can out-perform dual 5870's, the r2 continues to be better for gaming. the only gpu that comes close to this mark is the 485M, and it's not even clear if this will ever be released in the m17xr.3.

you also typically cannot install a more powerful card on your own for two reasons:

1. dell must release a bios version that provides support for that particular gpu, unless you know how to mod a system bios, which, from what i can gather, is extremely difficult to do without hundreds of manhours of testing in order to make sure you didn't break something in the process.
2. the power consumption of the gpu must not cause the entire system to exceed the power consumption provided by the power supply. (it is possible that a single 485m, which draws a lot of power, may exceed the total power consumption for the laptop's AC adapter.

at this point, i can't do more than speculate because i do not know what type of power supply the r.3 has, as well as how much power these sandybridge processors draw)

i guess the real question you need to ask yourself is this:

do ANY of the exclusive aspects of the r3 merit compromising pure gaming horsepower?

i'm referring to: 3d gaming, soft touch exterior, HDMI input, updated touchpad, updated touchpanel, better battery life.

in my case, all of those things, except for the hdmi input, are essentially useless to me. not to mention the fact that there is no longer an RGB quality screen on the r3. for me, it's a no brainer. for others, well, maybe not so much. ultimately, you've gotta make the decision for yourself, especially before they stop selling the r2, or specific components of the r2 that you want (sli 285's might be the only option in the near future, if they run out of stock of 5870's for example).

 

Throttlestop won't work with these cpu's see my post a few pages back.
I like the R3 but no SLI, Plastic casing & 1920x1200 RGBLED Screen is the killer for me. I would love 3D for blurays but for modern games fps will pretty much half with 3D on atm. for anyone upgrading from a non alienware machine will love it that being said.

 

IMO, too many variables for this generalized statement. If we were talking strictly benchmarking I would agree.

 

Stock speeds no overclocking, the R3 is spanking the R2. Especially since it has 1 GPU. Thats according to the 3dmark scores leaked. We'll have to see what the real world first owners get. For all I know those leaked scores are tweaked by Dell to get us to buy.

 

oh wow i didnt no the r3 could only hold one GPU, i wanted to put 5870's crossfire but since i cant im going to get the r2.

also from what im being told the 920/940XM could OC alot better and out perform the new 2nd gen i7's becasue the new ones are locked, correct?

 

3dMark06 -- a known CPU bound synthetic benchmark tool from 2006 -- actually shows a system with a superior and refined CPU design, out-performing another system with a weaker CPU. What's the surprise here?

I am interested in seeing figures where the two configurations are being benched with Vantage and newer software that actually makes proper use of features that weren't even used in such a CPU-bound application such as 3dMark06.

 

i wouldnt count on 2820QM to beat 920/940XM anytime soon. it's just not going to happen. 940xm with unlocked multiplier, TDP manipulation is a force not to be taken lightly. only IF we can manipulate 2920XM TDP can it truly post a threat to 940XM, which at this point dont look good (refer to throttlestop thread for more info)

 

There is no doubt that the 2820QM is quite an improvement and a much better CPU at stock clocks but the 940XM offers the possibility to go beyond stock clocks.

Now if you are not into OC than the 2820QM is an amazing CPU and will beat by far all 940XM at stock clocks.

 

i agree, only to the extend of being all stock. but why get 940xm if you are only prepared to run stock? 940xm's exceedingly expensive cost can only be justified with extreme overclocking. and lets not forget, 940xm is also a lot more expensive than 2820QM. at more than double the price, u will want to your 940xm to do more than just stock.

if only stock is what the user is looking for, 2820QM is the cpu to go, half the price, better performance, longer battery life.

if on the other hand, the user is determined to go beyond stock, apart from 2920XM (which is inconclusive by the way), i dont see any real threat any of the new cpus will post to the 940xm. of course, we are strictly talking about raw performance.

 

hmm ok guys thanks, i didnt realize that the tests were based on the stock performance of the cpu's.

and i also didnt realize an OC 920/940xm would really give it that much more superior power. how high can a 940xm be overclocked to.. stable that is.. can it get to 4.0ghz?

 

The thing with the i7s is that they run hot, so yes you can reach those clocks but you will never be able to keep those multipliers for long that high due to the heat, simply put, if you don't use throttlestop to prevent the chipset modulation from kicking in, the multipliers will drop instead in order to keep the CPU within operating temperatures. So even though CPU-Z will report 4.2GHz, while running let's say wprime, the CPU will downclock to 3.3 with the multipliers dropping at 23x and your results will be equivalent to that speed not to the 4.2

 

hmm ok i see, well whats a good ghz to OC a 920xm to, i dont want to shorten the CPU lifespan, i dont want to overwork it, i just want to run it normal but OC because how stable these are when OC

 

I keep mine at 3.44GHz for 24/7 usage, that's a 3% OC from the BIOS, no extra voltage, the fans rarely kick in. Don't worry about the lifespan, at those clocks you have nothing to worry about, it idles at 42 C and I have it to max out (that depends on the TS settings) at 82 C (the temperatures will vary according to ambient temperatures, thermal paste, other mods, etc...)

 

tbh, i would agree with other replies suggesting the new tech (R3) or at least waiting for reviews to start coming in (nbr members mandrake & danegrclose, among what i'm sure is to be many, many, others) once the systems are in hand.

for some (*cough*, ahem - 'rough'...) preliminary ideas:
Review Intel Sandy Bridge Quad-Core processors - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

as for potential overclocking the R3, if necessary, loopholes generally tend to be found - maybe read through the M17x R3 owners thread for some helpful info until then?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...ial-m17xr3-owners-lounge-thread-part-1-a.html

 

alot of the comparisons specs i found was comparing the new Sandy Bridge CPUs to stock non-OC 920xm, from what everyone is saying, they "can" beat it if you haev the 920xm at stock, but you can OC it alot and it still be stable. whereas the new Sandy Bridge are locked you cant do anything with it. so thats why the 920xm are better and i decided to get that

 

i kept my 940XM running full time 3.5GHz. that's 5% BIOS OC, no voltage increase, TDP set at 85 and multiplier set to 25X. my idle is 40C or less, max is about 85C~ish. with voltage increase, all those numbers can go even higher, but 3.5GHz is already insane for a quadcore laptop processor. when all 4 cores stressed with wPrime1024, the minimum sustained speed is about 3.2~3.33GHz. try getting that on a 2820QM or (not confirmed) 2920XM (as many have pointed out, we are still waiting for a proper OC result for 2920XM).

 

well, if you're taking assumptions that sb (ie: 2630QM) will never be able to be oc as gospel and dead set on tweaking, then your conclusion would be logical. personally though, i believe in the old adage "never say never" - including to the possibility of oc sb M17x R3... besides, as history shows us, "if there's a will, there's a way"!

if you've really got your heart set on an all out maximum horsepower rig (essentially tethered desktop experience in a notebook form factor, complete with 330w brick supply and dual gpu's), then why not a few months patience for the anticipated M18x - something seemingly right up your alley?

 

na im sure the m18x will be alot of money, i dont spend that much on my m17x $1600 most, i buy them refurbs with warranty. i just got a red m17x for $1600 it was a great deal, it had


Nebula Red

Intel Core i7-720QM Quad Core Processor 1.6GHz

(2.8GHz Turbo Mode)

4GB RAM | 320 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

17 inch UltraSharp WUXGA (1920x1200) RGB LED Display

Crossfire Dual 1GB ATI Radeon Mobility HD 5870

8X DVD +/- RW Drive w/dbl layer write capability

Bluetooth | Backlit Keyboard

Webcam | Wireless-N

Windows 7 Home Premium x64

Alienware ADVANCED COMPLETE CARE Warranty until 1/2012

 

each has it's advantages, either way you can't go wrong - that's definitely a sweet rig there, congrats!

p.s. an update to that possibility on the M17x R3 oc:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...17xr3-i7-2820-gtx460m-review.html#post7084721

(more specifically, the just released bios shots... )

 

yeah i cant believe no one bough this its just been sitting on ebay as a buy it now option for like 3 weeks. and it was only $1650, plus when i paid i got double ebay bucks so i got $70 in ebay bucks which is awesome

 

cherries on top!

btw, for reference to interested R3 owners, quick update regarding potential unlocking/oc sb:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...x-r3-first-impression-dr-j-6.html#post7094674

 

just for the sake of comparison with the first post, here is how a not fully o'ced 920xm perform with the use of TS:



and the reason I said not fully is because many users here have their cpus running .2 GHz or higher for everyday use...

 

I think the r3's advantages are clear. It's almost twice as fast as the 940xm at stock speeds...

Battery life is much better on the r3 with the 6970 especially at idle / internet browsing than the dual 5870 setup on the r2...making the laptop much more practical for school/business use as needed. For most people this is worth much more than sacrificing a few frames.

I'd rather have a single powerful gpu like the 6970 2gb over the 5870 1gb in crossfire....

Remember that two 5870m 1gb cards does not equal a 2gb frame buffer...you only have a 1gb frame buffer...

The 6970 2gb card of course has a 2gb frame buffer in which some games will benefit from...

Sometimes crossfire doesn't work or scale well..and can be tricky to get working right...not to mention that crossfire has microstutter which is noticeable to a lot of people. One powerful single gpu provides smoother gameplay.

While I like the r2 and 5870 1gb crossfire is great, it's just old tech now, that I certainly would not invest in unless you could get an incredible deal on. The $1600 deal is a good deal for the r2 as someone here posted, but for $400 more I think the r3 is worth the jump since you are already investing a lot of dough.

 

well you bring up some good points. however you said just spend $400 more on the r3 because i just bought an r2 for $1600. but the $2000 r3 i think is the minimum stats one, correct? if i wanted the setup your saying im sure it will be higher then $2500 which is a $1000 more than i spent which is alot.

im happy with my r2 i really am. your saying its old technology like its bad lol. with my setup on my r2 ill be good for years, i got 8gb of ram now and its crazy fast im so happy with it. and then i plan to get a SSD soon which will be even better. i couldnt imagine a faster computer because i dont really game to much with mine

 

@Kip--you also have to remember that the R3 doesn't stay twice as fast for long at stock. For something like 56 seconds give or take. Then it goes back down. I bet the R3 will have some new advantages that we haven't discovered yet and that's what makes owning a new build of machine fun...


Just my .02 (wish I could put the 6970 in the m15x.. now that would be real fun!)

StevenX

 

Lol, no way is it bad man! Your set up is a monster, lol and you should be happy with it. I don't think we will see 6970 crossfire any ways...just doesn't seem feasible unless people want to walk around with big 400 watt power supplies? Lol?

5870 CF is awesome, sorry I made it sound as if it's some how inferior or irrelevant as you will surely get the same overall experience as the newer r3. I never really had driver problems running cf set up, just read about people having problems. Sometimes it does take some tweaking, but so does one single gpu. Just my opinion to get the new stuff. Sandy Bridge seems great and might run cooler? Not sure, because I was actually looking at the r2 5870 CF as well. I had a clevo with one 5870 paired with a i5 and that to me, already provided an outstanding experience. When I say old tech, I should of said last generation.

I decided to go with new gen stuff only because I've read good things about the 6970 and I know it will be a nice little upgrade over the 5870m.

I know in 6 months someone will be calling my r3 "old tech."

 

I think there is no point going beyond stock clocks of the 2820qm. I like to OC if it benefits frame rates, but this is a gaming machine, and the cpu at stocks clocks is much more powerful than the 6970m. There is no need to OC for gaming.

 

An interesting thread. I didn t realise the OCability of the 920/940XM and the difficulties in OCing the newer chips. Seems crazy OC taking 2ghz chip and pushing it to 3.5ghz!! Must burn a hole through the desk lol

I am pretty sure m17 r2 owners will figure out how to jam 2x6970s into their machines. Then the m17 r3 might be something of a lame duck

If it is possible with the 2 year old M860CU I don t see why not.

 

@ King of Interns - "I am pretty sure m17 r2 owners will figure out how to jam 2x6970s into their machines." DONE! Or 2x 6990s Just look at DR650SE's m17x r2 with 2x 6990s http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...6970m-your-m17x-r2-single-gpu-crossfirex.html

 

Lol there we go then another reason to hold onto your RGB 1200p beauties. I don t think either the 920XM or 940XM will bottleneck the upcoming HD7000M either. Game on!

 

hmm my m15x running on 940xm and gtx670mddr5 good performance for a one year plus laptop