680M is OUT!

In terms of "bang for buck", it's most likely going to be that the 7970 is a better choice. nVidia's top end mobile GPUs are normally marginally more powerful than the AMD alternative, but are usually a lot more expensive as well.

Some people consider the extra cost worth it for things like driver support worth a damn. (nVidia typically has far better driver support.) I suppose it really depends on whether or not you can afford it.

 

nVidia may have a bit better driver support, but AMD has recognized their shortcomings and have decided to do something about it. AMD is moving to a dynamic Catalyst release schedule - TechSpot News
Only time will tell if they can pull it off.

 

GTX 680M is available for single card and SLI already before the end of this month...

http://en.community.dell.com/dell-blogs/direct2dell/b/direct2dell/archive/2012/06/04/alienware-getting-latest-nvidia-kepler-cards-to-continue-delivering-maximum-performance-for-gamers.aspx

 

So much for the hype, the 680M is way behind if those scores are true.

 

is it official 680m >7970m....

 

Did you look at the scores? The 7970M beats the 680M hands down, except for a couple of games that are known to run poorly on AMD cards. If those scores are areal I'm expecting the 680M to hit ~4.7k in 3DMark11 in consistence with those early leaks.

 

witch games run poorly? idk the chart for the 7970m, is it the games that have nvidia logo screeen that pop ups when a game is loaded?

 

As much as I hate to admit it seeing as I always go with Nvidia, if those numbers stand true there is no way in hell anyone can justify spending more on a card that performs less.

7970m vs 680m Chart
AMD Radeon HD 7970M - Notebookcheck.net Tech

Here are just some that I compared.

Diablo 3 AMD: 100.8 Nvidia: 90.1
Skyrim: AMD 55.6 Nvidia: 59.4
Battlefield 3: AMD: 34.7 Nvidia: 47.4
Crysis 2: AMD: 54.4 Nvidia: 44.8

 

Phew! I am usually a Green guy (main rig has 4 gtx 580 Classifieds), but I just put in a purchase for a baseline M18X with the new 7970M's in crossfire for a SCREAMING good deal.

After checking out the differences listed just tonight, I'm happy with my purchase. Barring any serious lapse in driver support by AMD that is.

Yes, it appears the 680M is 5% better overall, but the price premium that will be demanded is a low blow.

 

I am not convinced the information posted by notebookcheck is accurate. It might be, but they often miss the mark on accuracy. The article mentions benchmarks published by NVIDIA, but I cannot locate the source they are claiming that NVIDIA published. I sort of doubt we will see any accurate information until the 680M is actually released "in the wild" to the end users that know how to put it through the paces in a proper manner.

If it is accurate, then I'm mighty glad that I have this beastly 7970M CF setup right now, because those are pretty lousy numbers for a flagship enthusiast product.

 

I still think when its all said and done you will end up with 680s Fox .

All these numbers mean squat as you said and they do need to be in the proper hands being tested on equal machines etc.

Till then its beyond speculation who is the champ.

 

I dunno, Brother Quad. I'm pretty dog-gone happy with the 7970M CF right now. Assuming a good AMD driver is just around the corner, GTX 680M is going to need to offer more than a negligible 5% performance advantage for me. I feel like I am in a wonderful spot as an observer while sitting on some pretty wicked GPUs.

That rumored 5% increase can truly turn out to be meaningless in the wrong hands, and all it would take is NVIDIA dropping the ball on driver optimization to lose such a tiny performance edge. I'm actually more optimistic about AMD than I am NVIDIA at the moment. NVIDIA's focus on power-saving green technology is start to bug me, and I think they are risking loss of their enthusiast following if they continue down that silly path. They really botched the Tegra tablet thing because of that silliness, and now all the yuppies have iPads, LOL.

I do love the better NVIDIA eye candy and (historically better) driver support, but I've always preferred the raw power over sparkle. With the 580M, I had the best of both worlds, but it seems NVIDIA may have started to lose focus on drivers. In the last 6 months, only one out of five NVIDIA drivers were what I can label as being a "good" driver.

This could be a season for AMD to steal the performance crown... only time will tell. If AMD's new strategy to focus on quality versus quantity on drivers is not a bunch of smoke and mirrors to excuse themselves for releasing fewer versions of bad drivers, then I think we could stand to be very impressed. That's long overdue. I've owned far more ATI/AMD graphics cards than I have NVIDIA over the years and I'd like nothing more than to see them take product quality seriously like ATI used to do. I was never unhappy with the reds before the 6900M series.

Edit 1: Speaking of AMD drivers, I just finished downloading a nearly half-gig 7970M optimized driver from Clevo Taiwan. About to give it a go to see what happens. Should be interesting.
Edit 2: It has something in the drivers I have never seen before. An app called AMDZ.exe. Have a look.

 

wow keep us posted with that new driver. And if possible, please do share with us

 

I just posted more details over in the proper location... http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...roblems-discussion-thread-62.html#post8582240

 

Was ready to pull the trigger on the xfire 7970 but due to the normal AMD flakey driver performance and less than easy config, I will be getting sli 680's in my m18x even if the performance is equal
I wonder if Alienware will offer nvidia 3d vision 2 on the m18x ?

Would this require a screen upgrade to the m18x ?

 

You can output 3d to an external (with 580m, anyway) but since there is no 120hz internal panel, you wont benefit from 3d with the laptop itself....shame really, was one of the hot things on "what users want in the R2" thread. Would have been great to have a built in 120hz screen....alas, they appear too costly to produce on an 18.4" scale

Maybe you guys have already seen this: Articles : Introducing The GeForce GTX 680M Mobile GPU - GeForce - more info.....lol

Quoted from the above:

Stuff the "power saving" lol - lets just have it full blast....

 

The Nvidia article only calls out 2 GB of ram with the others claiming 4. More realistic and straight from the source.

 

this one is interesting:


~5600 3dmark11 score makes it pretty close to the 7970M


http://www.anandtech.com/show/5914/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680m-kepler-gk104-goes-mobile
comes to the conclusion that its 50% faster then the 580m which would mean somewhat slower then a 7970M

 

Yeah, its looking pretty good for stock figures when compared to Brother Fox's initial 7970m crossfire 3dmark11 bench of 9951

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8759/7970mcfstock2920xml3.jpg

Who knows, but maybe the lower clocks on the 680m will allow for more room or scope for overclocking them....I just hope this whole "power saving" business doesnt play too much of a part in tethering the cards, performance wise.

 

Anand posted up an article on the 680M last night/this morning.

I'm feeling hopeful given some of the info here;

AnandTech - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680M: Kepler GK104 Goes Mobile

Still, only time will tell. These cards need to get out in the wild to be tested side by side before we really will know which is king - and if the performance lead is worth any price premium.

While part of me understands the price/performance discussion generally - a large part of me feels that with a system like the M18X and components like the 7970M and 680M a price performance discussion is like arguing over fuel economy on a Bugatti Veyron and a Mclaren F1 ... you are more than welcome to have the conversation but it just isn't what these things were designed for.

I'm all about not spending money I don't have to for a miniscule performance gain, but what I feel is miniscule and what someone else feels is miniscule may be two very different things. Additionally, the price/performance discussion should be couched in the context of what these systems and components were designed for and are really primarily used for – high performance computing and gaming.

If one is really THAT concerned with price/performance - why would you be looking at the M18X or the 680M/7970M? Wouldn't you be more interested in a midrange laptop? These things can be, and are, used in areas where price performance is an issue. They can and are used in areas where battery life and mobility is an issue – but that isn’t where they were designed to be used – just like the Veyron and F1 could be used as a daily driver or for long family road-trips.

I’m not trying to criticize the conversation or anyone concerned with these aspects, just a thought.

 

All of a sudden, I don't feel bad at all about going 7970M instead...

Even if the 680M is on par (or slightly more powerful) there's no way I'd pay the premium for it. If it was 30% or more powerful, maybe...but if the benches from nVidia themselves are accurate, looks like that won't be the case.

 

the 680m is already available with m17 and m18x

 

Not on the website. Did you call Dell and they told you so? How much is it?

 

well arriving at the end of the month Alienware M17x and M18x land new NVIDIA GTX680M graphics option -- Engadget

 

I don't see the 680M as available on the US configurator.

It may take a little time for Dell/AW to work through a supply of 675M's and if the announcement was schedualed for yesterday Dell/AW may not have expected other manufacturers/resellers to make the 680M available quite so quickly.

 

its coming until the end of the month just like origin the only difference is that origin allows you tu configure with the 680 but arrives till the next month anyway

 

Same like last year. 580M came at the end of June/beginning of July and first m18x with those cards started to appear around mid July.

Let's see how much they ask for 680M. Since the morning I've been thinking about ordering an R2. Hmm...

 

Available at the end of the month is not the same as available now ...

Not to be a jerk, just saying.

By similar reasoning Haswell is available now ... we just have to wait longer for it to ship.

 

my bad i thought i was available when i saw the engadget post

 

Sorry - I really don't mean to be a jerk. I just know that personally I'm refreshing the AW page on an hourly basis to see when that part will drop ...

Maybe a little of my personally frustration came out. Sorry.

 

Just been chatting with my rep (EMEA/India) and he said that there is no internal news of 680m yet - I was asking him for pricing but he couldnt see it anywhere....

 

All I know is that going from 5870M CF<6970M CF<6990M CF< 580M SLI....for myself it has been an AMD nightmare. 5870M CF was sick. 6970M CF and 6990M CF was awful. The problems I had ranged from GPU failure, resume from sleep/brightness problems, weak driver support, no physX and no cuda support. 580M SLI has been an amazing Problem Free experience for the most part. Throttling and dpc latency was dealt with in a timely manner.
I can remember what it felt like sitting on the side lines waiting for AMD driver support while Nvidia had drivers ready from the get go. I believe the 680M's will be worth the price.

I hope my post doesn't sound too anti AMD. I'm just throwing out my experience with AMD. It's obvious even to me that AMD's latest offering is an obsolute beast.

 

I have 580 SLI, and I have have to say I have been very impressed. I love my setup and its perfect for me.

I dont overclock/bench I use my machine out of the box to play games as we are at the end of the console cycle and I find my laptop graphics to be jaw-dropping as opposed to current 360/PS3.

My question is upgrading my current GPU set will cost me around $1500 and with some numbers people on here have been kicking around it seems very appealing to me. I am understanding that a new single card from the new gen GPU's is about as good as my setup. Will this translate into gamming enough to justify the price of a 7970 or 680 dual card setup?

 

Considering that 5870M CF M17x R2's or anything with the Alienware branding in my area fetches a pretty penny regardless of how old it is, allows me to easily sell my current setup and build to order all over again. I would like to see the price of 680M SLI before ordering a new IVY based system with out of the box problems. My current setup is the best Alienware product I have ever owned.

For the first time I am actually enjoying my M18x and not troubleshooting.....

 

All in all, I guess I will be passing on upgrading to the 680m's. Maybe if there is a 685 down the road I would consider it, but right now I am a very happy camper with my dual 580's

 

I am thinking about all of this too, re-considering reasons for re-ordering or staying with R1 at least for another year. I am glad to be lucky enough to say that money for R2 is not a problem, but is the switch really worth all the trouble?

On the one hand, 580M SLI still rock every game and now nvidia strongly lobbying for extended FXAA support in future games will surely make the setup live longer (e.g. FXAA did its job in Max Payne 3 well enough for me). Plus, my current setup is flawless. Re-ordering means uncertainty, endless waiting, possible troubleshooting and other annoyances.

On the other, 680M SLI looks very very yummy and I can sell my m18xr1 easily enough or simply give to a close relative who is currently looking for a good laptop, both for work and some gaming. Nonetheless, Ivy Bridge itself doesn't really offer anything more than 2ng gen i7 did really and my 'old' SSDs are very fine, so the only reason to change would be GPUs. In the end 3720QM is pretty much equal to my current 2860QM. Hmm... hmm...

 

Can't those of us with m18x r1 with sli 580m's just upgrade to 680m's? Are the slots compatible..I mean do we have to get an r2 to do it?

 

We certainly can, but as I thought about that, I myself will be better off selling R1 and re-ordering R2, especially as a business customer I bought R1 tax free. 680M SLI will surely cost around 800-1200 EUR (or USD in the States). This means putting that grand in an "old" R1 just like that. Selling R1 for still good price and then re-ordering R2 will be much cheapter (meaning I won't have to spend a whole thousand to reorder but perhaps e.g. 500), and this will also mean (supposedly) better sound card in R2, faster HDMI port (which should finally work nicely with my AW2310) and finally, getting prolonged warranty (I still have 1 year on R1, but brand new R2 will offer "fresh" two years, etc).

Thinking very economically about this, upgrading R1 for a thousand is not worth it (assuming your R1 can be sold for good price).

 

Well said, Brother 'gunner. It is not anti-AMD, it is just the facts. All I can add is "ditto" to almost everything you said. Exact same experience for me. I will have to see what happens on the 680M, but I echo everything else. +1 Rep

 

"Remember sitting on the sidelines for AMD driver support?" I still am...

 

Fox, can you run a mark 11 stock with c/f disabled and post up scores? - just for comparison as Notebookcheck says 680m is around 5900 (5700 gpu)...would be interesting to see what 7970m is....singular.

That's what I fear most about putting AMD cards in my machine.....

 

Fox, let's be honest. I've been reading your posts on your 7970Ms specially now after 680M's announcement. You seem like you are trying your best to justify your choice to actually go back to AMD, but if you ask me, I'd say you don't really feel completely comfortable with the switch. "Sheer performance" is not an argument anymore, as we can safely assume 680M to perform better while working cooler with much better drivers etc.

Tell the truth. Do you regret buying 7970M with 680M around the corner? I don't think that in your case money was the issue.

 

Is it just me, or is AMD's announcment to go to a "when needed" driver release cycle MORE scary than the "regular" releases of old?

Not to be a neigh-sayer, but given the wait most of those with 7970's have had to endure for stable drivers [and amazing work to produce the same done by many of those on this forum] I shudder to think what the wait may be for updated drivers on current/future AMD CF set-ups.

For driver support alone it may be worth paying an acceptable premium for 680's as opposed to 7970's. Especially if one is looking for "out of the box" performance and stability. Now, what counts as acceptable will be individual-user dependant.

I do find it interesting that most of the early benches I've seen for the 680m vs 7970m have not utilized teh 12.5b catalyst drivers that many on this forum have found to work best for CF set-ups. Instead it appears taht 7970m benches have used the 12.4 drivers. It will be interesting to see if that has hampered the 7970 in any fashion.

Additionally, as someone who will be using a system for both work and play, as it were, the stability afforded by the Green team's more regular driver releases may be worth it.

As usual and always; your milage may vary.

 

Nah, it's actually much better for the consumer because the WHQL drivers still had problems. There will still be driver leaks in beta/preview form. It just means AMD can now focus on more serious problems with their limited resources. If anything it's nVIDIA that should be releasing monthly drivers and AMD releasing the beta's with a WHQL every 2-5 months.

 

+rep back brother!! Gone are the days of troubleshooting...........

+rep for still waiting!!

Uh oh......you are just asking to hear Fox's history with Nvidia. I believe Fox has no loyalties toward either camp. He is an enthusiast at heart....especially when it comes to getting the most power out of his system.

 

Doesn't this assume that AMD will actually rise to the challenge they have set themselves and release stable drivers when needed?

I've had both red and green systems, and had stable systems from both sides of the fence. I just seem to see more complaints about AMD driver support than about Nvidia driver support.

 

+rep just because

 

Haha - right back atcha Bro - just 'cos you are a diamond

 

I am thinking the same thing! I want to sell both my m18x's and buy them again.

 

Thanks Bro!! I just went back and really read Fox's post about how Nvidia dropped the ball with Tegra 3....lol. Remember how I was sooooo excited about Tegra 3 and now own a maxed out A5X iPad?....lol. Mobiousblack & I are Nvidia fans....yet we own/prefer iOS devices.

I really think that Nvidia is focusing on Tegra 3/4 and AMD is focusing on the 8th generation of gaming consoles. AMD could do a lot better and Nvidia should have been ready to go already with the 680M's.

It's really annoying when certain companies hold back their products just to see what the competition is up to....especially if that's what Nvidia is doing.